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Could somebody include a note about how it is just a really boring film? I, like the person who wrote in above, have never heard it discribed as neo-confederate, and I didn't see it as such when I saw the first half of it. I didn't see the 2nd half of it beacuse it's 4 hours long and doesn't go more than 10 minutes without a major character breaking out into a soliloquy that doesn't sound so much like a heartfelt outpouring of inner termoil, so much as men reading thier civil war era corrispondance back and forth to each other's faces. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.63.198 ( talk • contribs) 03:03, 25 November 2005
Sorry man but thats ^ to POV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.179.172 ( talk • contribs) 16:09, 24 December 2005
This article is not only POV, but monotonous. Sentences such as "After the box office failure of Gettysburg, Maxwell was unable to get the prequel greenlit until media mogul Ted Turner provided the entire $60 million budget" are phrased in the sort of cynical, semi-fact way that you would expect to see in NNDB. And the paragraph dealing with departures from the book, although interesting, is far too long. Now I'm not a big fan of the movie, but it seems seriously imbalanced to me. I think this article needs a serious rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.158.148 ( talk • contribs) 19:39, 28 December 2005
Should it be pointed out also, in any rewrite of this article that some kind soul might choose to complete, that some of the battle sequences in this film are actually better than Gettysburg? Gods and Generals really does cut down on some of the openly fake obvious reenactments of Gettysburg... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.48.230.38 ( talk • contribs) 23:41, 1 March 2006
Should there be a seperate page for the book? It doesn't seem right that Jeff Shaara's page, which links to the novels, has a link to a page that is mostly about the movie. Ridan 22:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Im pretty sure that Robert E. Lee said "it is well that war is so terrible..." not "horrible" thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.167.87 ( talk) 05:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
25% of the 5.5 million Southern Whites owned slaves. Not 10%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.197.8.183 ( talk) 18:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Image:Gods&Generals2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 18:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Robert Duvall as Robert E. Lee in Gods and Generals.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Quote section has been removed. Wikipedia isn't for quotes. That's an IMDB thing. Goyston talk, contribs, play 13:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that the criticism section needs to be reworked. I don't believe that criticism of any work should be the bulk of the article. The plot section needs to be longer, the criticism section needs to be shorter, and there needs to be more sections dealing with specific topics about the movie. Perhaps some of the arguments in the criticism section can open new headers. Mrathel ( talk) 16:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
In the article it is stated that, "the 'Director's Cut' version of Gods and Generals has an alleged running time of six hours, and has never been released to the public in any format, despite pleas from fans." First of all, what fans? And second of all, where did that information come from? Completely baseless! MagicBullet5 ( talk) 22:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The majority of the article has been written in the fashion of a movie reviewer. Too much POV, and very little about teh movie itself. Nathraq ( talk) 13:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I gawk at the fact that the plot/synopsis section is but three lines, whereas the criticsm section constitutes the bulk of the article's text. I think there needs to be a greater explanation of the plot in order to appreciate what is being criticized exactly. Criticism can follow from that point, or be embedded into the snyopsis. However, as it stands it seems horribly infected with POV to be taken seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.71.198 ( talk) 05:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
The stats listed above are wrong. The 1860 United States Federal Census showed 383,637 slaveholders out of a total white population of 8 million. That's 4.79 percent of the population who owned slaves, not 25 percent. Also not all slave holders were white.
Just because you happen to live in a northern state now also does not mean that your ancestors fought for the Union. The south was so devistated by the war that many of the rich plantaion owners left for the north. Slavery was an international problem, not a "southern" problem. The stain of slavery taints all Americans and Europeans without exception. Northern ships carried them from Africa and were manned by Yankee sailors. Yankee merchants sold them to plantation owners and Yankee merchants bought the cotton and raw materials wrought by slave hands. And don't forget the United States Supreme Court ruled slavery as legal on several occasions.
Also, not everyone that fought for the Confederacy were white. The Union army pillaged and plundered their way across the South. Just as the British Colonel Tarleton's brutality drove loyal colonists to join the revolutionaries in the American Revoluionary War, the Union army's actions drove many people who were loyal to the Union into the ranks of the Confederate army. The Northern States were praised for its African-American Regiment in the movie Glory. However, the Confederates also had mulatto soldiers from Tennessee. Mulatto is a person who is half white and half black. Also, a regiment of Cherokee warriors fought with the Confederates at Wilson's Creek, Missouri. Three Choctaw-Chickasaw regimetns, a Creek regiment, a Creek-Seminole regiment and two Cherokee regiments fought for the Confederacy in Arkanas. And a Cherokee Confederate General was one of the last officers to surrender his forces, two months after Lee's surrender.
As I write this I'm referring to my College History Book in case your wondering where this information originates. The Civil War was a complex issue which most Americans don't take the time to understand. And that's why they don't understand this movie. As a famous history professor once said, "F" students in history become movie critics.
Thank you for reading this. I hope that you will please read a history book tonight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.36.233 ( talk) 03:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC) |}
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Reviewer: RAP ( talk · contribs) 23:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC) Oh god, quick fail. Not enough sourcing is the main issue. RAP ( talk) 23:42 17 April 2012 (UTC)
8 years later and this post is even more necessary than it was then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:8389:4120:2028:4BFE:4AFA:E07C ( talk) 02:49, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
The Director's Cut was released for Blu-ray Disc on May 24, 2011. It runs 280 minutes. For the theatrical release, almost two and a half hours of footage were removed to get the length down to approximately 3 hours, 39 minutes.
I found this confusing in that the director's cut is only 61 minutes longer than the theatrical version. I understand the meaning - 2.5 hours were cut for the theatrical release and roughly 1.5 hours were still left cut (only 1 hour was added back in) for the director's cut, but you have to read the article several times to understand that. Tiger-Heli ( talk) 18:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Don't feel like trying to edit, but two things jump out:
First, I don't believe it is good English usage to state that a person (Jackson) "contracted" a relationship with a young person. One contracts a disease, but one forms a relationship. Can I get a witness?
Second, the article states that a version was 280 minutes long. I compute that to be four hours and forty minutes. Then it states that about two hours of material was removed to end up with a length of 3 hours and 39 minutes. I fail to see how one can start with 280 minutes, subtract about 120 minutes and end up with 60*3+39 or 219 minutes. Does not compute. I do not know which number(s) is/are incorrect, but taken together, they are inconsistent and need research and correction.
Sorry I don't have the time or inclination to take this further, but I do feel these are valid points and I didn't just want to ignore them, so this comment is what it is.
141.150.251.169 (
talk) 06:38, 15 November 2012 (UTC)Dan Goodman (the Unix one, not the Mac one)
PS I will not spend a lot of time trying to follow up on this, but if you have something to add or discuss I can be reached at my name (without the parenthetical description) prepended to the number 123 at Yahoo -- you can figure out the correct syntax if you are not a machine and have at least a three digit IQ or close to it.
My 2 cents for Wikipedia, a great resource.
The "Reception" section is one of the oddest sections I have seen in a Wikipedia article. The first sentence states that the film was poorly reviewed (in fact most reviews of the film were terrible - it had only 8% approval on Rotten Tomatoes). Yet the section then goes on to list one positive review after another - nearly two dozen positive reviews in all, and almost none of the negative reviews are even mentioned. I get the impression that a fan of this movie just packed the section with as many positive reviews as they could find. Given that 92% of the critics listed on Rotten Tomatoes panned the movie (and 70% on Metacritic), I would suggest an editor may want to delete most of the positive reviews and include more details of all the negative reviews. It just strikes me as odd, and almost humorous, to write at the beginning of the section that the film was generally panned and did not do well at the box office, and to then spend the rest of the section quoting from reviewers praising (virtually gushing) over the movie. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 ( talk) 05:28, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
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TheOldJacobite, I have never understood how a person's opinion can be automatically excluded from an article because they aren't defined as "notable." Of course, we give preferential treatment to the views of, in this case, historians and film critics. But we also must take into account WP:NPOV. In this case, the film critics and historians mentioned criticize the movie for various reasons. However, there is still a minority of people who like the movie. We can't pretend that these don't exist. They're mostly Civil War enthusiasts, along with lots of devout Christians and neo-Confederates. What better way to understand who these people are and why they like the film than through the quote previously given in the article?
Of course, Baldwin is neither a professional historian nor a film critic. But he's a notable figure, a prominent member of the Christian right, and a man who says that the Confederacy was "in the right." Sure, he's not a film critic or a historian, but who he is and how he sees history helps show who likes this movie and who doesn't. We can't just explain the reasons for people disliking the movie, but we also have to touch on the reasons people may have for liking it. That's what's important, and it's why it should be in the article. Display name 99 ( talk) 21:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
Unless Baldwin has been quoted outside his own website by a mainstream source, there is no reason to allot any weight to him in this Wikipedia article. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 15:27, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Why is it relevant to reference a youtube video maker Atun Shei in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.52.159.95 ( talk) 17:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
These 2movies were completely accurate despite what the far left lunatic fringe may think I am 54 years old and have spent my entire life studying all history good and bad and to slander the great generals soldiers and what they were fighting for is just bwrong Lee was offered command of all Union armies and turned them down because they were going to invade his home of Virginia and was quoted as saying I" I never thought I'd live to see the day when a president of the u.s. would raise an army to invade his own country " 2601:5C5:200:6E10:35BF:77DF:998D:F76D ( talk) 20:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gods and Generals (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Gods and Generals (film) was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
|
Could somebody include a note about how it is just a really boring film? I, like the person who wrote in above, have never heard it discribed as neo-confederate, and I didn't see it as such when I saw the first half of it. I didn't see the 2nd half of it beacuse it's 4 hours long and doesn't go more than 10 minutes without a major character breaking out into a soliloquy that doesn't sound so much like a heartfelt outpouring of inner termoil, so much as men reading thier civil war era corrispondance back and forth to each other's faces. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.63.198 ( talk • contribs) 03:03, 25 November 2005
Sorry man but thats ^ to POV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.66.179.172 ( talk • contribs) 16:09, 24 December 2005
This article is not only POV, but monotonous. Sentences such as "After the box office failure of Gettysburg, Maxwell was unable to get the prequel greenlit until media mogul Ted Turner provided the entire $60 million budget" are phrased in the sort of cynical, semi-fact way that you would expect to see in NNDB. And the paragraph dealing with departures from the book, although interesting, is far too long. Now I'm not a big fan of the movie, but it seems seriously imbalanced to me. I think this article needs a serious rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.162.158.148 ( talk • contribs) 19:39, 28 December 2005
Should it be pointed out also, in any rewrite of this article that some kind soul might choose to complete, that some of the battle sequences in this film are actually better than Gettysburg? Gods and Generals really does cut down on some of the openly fake obvious reenactments of Gettysburg... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.48.230.38 ( talk • contribs) 23:41, 1 March 2006
Should there be a seperate page for the book? It doesn't seem right that Jeff Shaara's page, which links to the novels, has a link to a page that is mostly about the movie. Ridan 22:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Im pretty sure that Robert E. Lee said "it is well that war is so terrible..." not "horrible" thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.167.87 ( talk) 05:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
25% of the 5.5 million Southern Whites owned slaves. Not 10%. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.197.8.183 ( talk) 18:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Image:Gods&Generals2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 18:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Robert Duvall as Robert E. Lee in Gods and Generals.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Quote section has been removed. Wikipedia isn't for quotes. That's an IMDB thing. Goyston talk, contribs, play 13:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that the criticism section needs to be reworked. I don't believe that criticism of any work should be the bulk of the article. The plot section needs to be longer, the criticism section needs to be shorter, and there needs to be more sections dealing with specific topics about the movie. Perhaps some of the arguments in the criticism section can open new headers. Mrathel ( talk) 16:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
In the article it is stated that, "the 'Director's Cut' version of Gods and Generals has an alleged running time of six hours, and has never been released to the public in any format, despite pleas from fans." First of all, what fans? And second of all, where did that information come from? Completely baseless! MagicBullet5 ( talk) 22:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The majority of the article has been written in the fashion of a movie reviewer. Too much POV, and very little about teh movie itself. Nathraq ( talk) 13:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I gawk at the fact that the plot/synopsis section is but three lines, whereas the criticsm section constitutes the bulk of the article's text. I think there needs to be a greater explanation of the plot in order to appreciate what is being criticized exactly. Criticism can follow from that point, or be embedded into the snyopsis. However, as it stands it seems horribly infected with POV to be taken seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.31.71.198 ( talk) 05:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
The stats listed above are wrong. The 1860 United States Federal Census showed 383,637 slaveholders out of a total white population of 8 million. That's 4.79 percent of the population who owned slaves, not 25 percent. Also not all slave holders were white.
Just because you happen to live in a northern state now also does not mean that your ancestors fought for the Union. The south was so devistated by the war that many of the rich plantaion owners left for the north. Slavery was an international problem, not a "southern" problem. The stain of slavery taints all Americans and Europeans without exception. Northern ships carried them from Africa and were manned by Yankee sailors. Yankee merchants sold them to plantation owners and Yankee merchants bought the cotton and raw materials wrought by slave hands. And don't forget the United States Supreme Court ruled slavery as legal on several occasions.
Also, not everyone that fought for the Confederacy were white. The Union army pillaged and plundered their way across the South. Just as the British Colonel Tarleton's brutality drove loyal colonists to join the revolutionaries in the American Revoluionary War, the Union army's actions drove many people who were loyal to the Union into the ranks of the Confederate army. The Northern States were praised for its African-American Regiment in the movie Glory. However, the Confederates also had mulatto soldiers from Tennessee. Mulatto is a person who is half white and half black. Also, a regiment of Cherokee warriors fought with the Confederates at Wilson's Creek, Missouri. Three Choctaw-Chickasaw regimetns, a Creek regiment, a Creek-Seminole regiment and two Cherokee regiments fought for the Confederacy in Arkanas. And a Cherokee Confederate General was one of the last officers to surrender his forces, two months after Lee's surrender.
As I write this I'm referring to my College History Book in case your wondering where this information originates. The Civil War was a complex issue which most Americans don't take the time to understand. And that's why they don't understand this movie. As a famous history professor once said, "F" students in history become movie critics.
Thank you for reading this. I hope that you will please read a history book tonight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.36.233 ( talk) 03:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC) |}
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: RAP ( talk · contribs) 23:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC) Oh god, quick fail. Not enough sourcing is the main issue. RAP ( talk) 23:42 17 April 2012 (UTC)
8 years later and this post is even more necessary than it was then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:8389:4120:2028:4BFE:4AFA:E07C ( talk) 02:49, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
The Director's Cut was released for Blu-ray Disc on May 24, 2011. It runs 280 minutes. For the theatrical release, almost two and a half hours of footage were removed to get the length down to approximately 3 hours, 39 minutes.
I found this confusing in that the director's cut is only 61 minutes longer than the theatrical version. I understand the meaning - 2.5 hours were cut for the theatrical release and roughly 1.5 hours were still left cut (only 1 hour was added back in) for the director's cut, but you have to read the article several times to understand that. Tiger-Heli ( talk) 18:57, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Don't feel like trying to edit, but two things jump out:
First, I don't believe it is good English usage to state that a person (Jackson) "contracted" a relationship with a young person. One contracts a disease, but one forms a relationship. Can I get a witness?
Second, the article states that a version was 280 minutes long. I compute that to be four hours and forty minutes. Then it states that about two hours of material was removed to end up with a length of 3 hours and 39 minutes. I fail to see how one can start with 280 minutes, subtract about 120 minutes and end up with 60*3+39 or 219 minutes. Does not compute. I do not know which number(s) is/are incorrect, but taken together, they are inconsistent and need research and correction.
Sorry I don't have the time or inclination to take this further, but I do feel these are valid points and I didn't just want to ignore them, so this comment is what it is.
141.150.251.169 (
talk) 06:38, 15 November 2012 (UTC)Dan Goodman (the Unix one, not the Mac one)
PS I will not spend a lot of time trying to follow up on this, but if you have something to add or discuss I can be reached at my name (without the parenthetical description) prepended to the number 123 at Yahoo -- you can figure out the correct syntax if you are not a machine and have at least a three digit IQ or close to it.
My 2 cents for Wikipedia, a great resource.
The "Reception" section is one of the oddest sections I have seen in a Wikipedia article. The first sentence states that the film was poorly reviewed (in fact most reviews of the film were terrible - it had only 8% approval on Rotten Tomatoes). Yet the section then goes on to list one positive review after another - nearly two dozen positive reviews in all, and almost none of the negative reviews are even mentioned. I get the impression that a fan of this movie just packed the section with as many positive reviews as they could find. Given that 92% of the critics listed on Rotten Tomatoes panned the movie (and 70% on Metacritic), I would suggest an editor may want to delete most of the positive reviews and include more details of all the negative reviews. It just strikes me as odd, and almost humorous, to write at the beginning of the section that the film was generally panned and did not do well at the box office, and to then spend the rest of the section quoting from reviewers praising (virtually gushing) over the movie. Just a thought. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.145.229.162 ( talk) 05:28, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
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I have just modified 2 external links on Gods and Generals (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:41, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
TheOldJacobite, I have never understood how a person's opinion can be automatically excluded from an article because they aren't defined as "notable." Of course, we give preferential treatment to the views of, in this case, historians and film critics. But we also must take into account WP:NPOV. In this case, the film critics and historians mentioned criticize the movie for various reasons. However, there is still a minority of people who like the movie. We can't pretend that these don't exist. They're mostly Civil War enthusiasts, along with lots of devout Christians and neo-Confederates. What better way to understand who these people are and why they like the film than through the quote previously given in the article?
Of course, Baldwin is neither a professional historian nor a film critic. But he's a notable figure, a prominent member of the Christian right, and a man who says that the Confederacy was "in the right." Sure, he's not a film critic or a historian, but who he is and how he sees history helps show who likes this movie and who doesn't. We can't just explain the reasons for people disliking the movie, but we also have to touch on the reasons people may have for liking it. That's what's important, and it's why it should be in the article. Display name 99 ( talk) 21:50, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
Unless Baldwin has been quoted outside his own website by a mainstream source, there is no reason to allot any weight to him in this Wikipedia article. Erik ( talk | contrib) ( ping me) 15:27, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Why is it relevant to reference a youtube video maker Atun Shei in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.52.159.95 ( talk) 17:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
These 2movies were completely accurate despite what the far left lunatic fringe may think I am 54 years old and have spent my entire life studying all history good and bad and to slander the great generals soldiers and what they were fighting for is just bwrong Lee was offered command of all Union armies and turned them down because they were going to invade his home of Virginia and was quoted as saying I" I never thought I'd live to see the day when a president of the u.s. would raise an army to invade his own country " 2601:5C5:200:6E10:35BF:77DF:998D:F76D ( talk) 20:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)