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@ Flickyard: Hello, Flickyard. I've just done a review of your submission and have made a few copy edits to it (so that it better conforms with the style used in other film articles). But I found several issues that merit discussion.
I'll be happy to discuss these matters with you. In the meantime, I'll leave the "Review in Progress" banner at the top of the draft. That banner has a sentence that cautions against editing the article while the banner is there. Feel free to ignore that statement, because I'm leaving the banner there just to let other reviewers know that I'm looking at the draft. Feel free to continue editing it. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 20:19, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
@ NewYorkActuary:Thank you for your detailed and helpful feedback on my draft! ad 1: Will change that as soon as I have access to my sources again. ad 2: Joe D'Amato claimed to have been the director of this movie, and that it was his first one, on two different occasions. It is not likely that he claimed it for fame's sake because he has a low opinion of the movie. Fidani is thought to be the director by Weisser and some others because another film actually directed by him uses the same pseudonym, Dick Spitfire. The pseudonym was therefore associated with Fidani; it is, however, a pseudonym for producer Diego Spataro and does not tell us who the director was on either of these two films. I should and will state that more clearly. These are, however, my OWN conclusions and might hence represent original research, whose inclusion I know is frowned upon. Is there a way to avoid collision with this wikipedia rule in this case? Flickyard ( talk) 08:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
As a sidenote, I'd still like to cite Weisser for both the plot summary and his view on humour in "Fidani", which I believe pertains very much to this film since it is the only thing he mentions in his discussion of this film in particular. Flickyard ( talk) 15:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Allow me to add some of my own unsourced commentary to this discussion here. D'Amato was some twenty years younger than Fidani. Might D'Amato have been working as what is often called an "assistant director", and the later statements in interviews were simply examples of bad memory or loose language? Or how about another possibility -- what if D'Amato and Fidani were each acting as directors on two separate projects, neither of which came to fruition? And what if Spataro later cobbled together scenes from those projects to create Go Away? If this is case, then Spataro really was the director of the final version of the film and D'Amato and Fidani were each relegated to the roles of "assistant directors". I have no evidence to support either of these two "what ifs", but they are each so plausible that it makes me hesitant to do anything other than simply repeat (in the article) only those things actually being said by reliable sources.
Regarding your second posting, I agree that the quote is too good to throw away. In a few minutes, I'll take a shot at re-writing the way it's presented. Feel free to revert if you don't like it. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 16:17, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
@ NewYorkActuary:Spataro gets interviewed himself on "Joe D'Amato Uncut" as far as I remember. I will revisit that documentary and document the statements made there, including indication of minutes and seconds. Your "what if" of Spataro putting this together seems unlikely to me, but possible. "Bad memory" is not to be excluded of course, though "loose wording" is; both statements by D'Amato on this matter are careful and detailed, no discrepancies; I will transcribe them.
In assessing the staff credits on these smaller spaghetti westerns, it seems that one has to rely on statements in interviews, since credits on these are sometimes bogus. The reason D'Amato gives for not taking directorial credit on this one, which I put into the article, seems plausible to me, on its own and since it is similar to his practice of crediting a producer's pseudonym as director in his "Alexander Borsky" adult films. Crediting the producer seems to have been a practice employed by directors who didn't want their names tied to the work for one reason or the other.
That "Dick Spitfire" was a pseudonym of "Diego Spataro" is plausible due to its phonological similarity to the actual name and D'Amato's statement, in which he explicitly mentions the pseudonym tied to the producer.
Still, I think it is best to represent the "Fidani" side present in the sources, too, as you suggest; I would like to add to the article that Weisser indicates no other source for his "Fidani" assumption than the identity of the directorial credit with the other film credited to "Dick Spitfire" and supposedly directed by Fidani, though some sources seem to indicate Luigi Batzella as the director on that one. So Weisser's assumption might simply be based on wrong facts; I'm also guessing he didn't know D'Amato's interviews.
Personally, I don't see any reason for crediting Fidani other than the facts that
The latter fact is one I could state in the article, I guess; the other ones are my personal observations and not documented well enough in the sources as far as I can see. Flickyard ( talk) 06:12, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I do own the Italian DVD release of the movie with a booklet which I could cite from in addition if additional citation are needed. Flickyard ( talk) 08:15, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Stelvio Rosi (credited as Stan Cooper) — Jonathan Duke III. I assume that there'll be nothing controversial about the real-life identities of the cast members, so I'm happy to let this be done after publication. I enjoyed working with you on this. I hope you'll stick around Wikipedia to work on some more articles. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:40, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
Weisser wasn't present when or where these films were made. Joe D'Amato's personal statement that he directed this film should be seen as a very strong PRIMARY source. I'm sure D'Amato was certain that he directed this film, since it was apparently the first film he ever directed. How could Weisser's assumptions possibly supersede D'Amato's own recorded claim? Not to mention Weisser's book is riddled with many errors and inaccuracies, especially regarding variant titles on these westerns. His book has since been supplanted by more current (and correct) research tomes,and should at this point only be referred to as a last resort. 68.129.15.71 ( talk) 18:23, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Well, author Weisser wasn't on the set. I'd rather believe D'Amato than Weisser. I would think D'Amato would know what his first directing job was. That interview with D'Amato is PRIMARY evidence, not second-hand assumptions like Weisser's comments. 68.129.15.71 ( talk) 19:56, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
@ Flickyard: Hello, Flickyard. I've just done a review of your submission and have made a few copy edits to it (so that it better conforms with the style used in other film articles). But I found several issues that merit discussion.
I'll be happy to discuss these matters with you. In the meantime, I'll leave the "Review in Progress" banner at the top of the draft. That banner has a sentence that cautions against editing the article while the banner is there. Feel free to ignore that statement, because I'm leaving the banner there just to let other reviewers know that I'm looking at the draft. Feel free to continue editing it. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 20:19, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
@ NewYorkActuary:Thank you for your detailed and helpful feedback on my draft! ad 1: Will change that as soon as I have access to my sources again. ad 2: Joe D'Amato claimed to have been the director of this movie, and that it was his first one, on two different occasions. It is not likely that he claimed it for fame's sake because he has a low opinion of the movie. Fidani is thought to be the director by Weisser and some others because another film actually directed by him uses the same pseudonym, Dick Spitfire. The pseudonym was therefore associated with Fidani; it is, however, a pseudonym for producer Diego Spataro and does not tell us who the director was on either of these two films. I should and will state that more clearly. These are, however, my OWN conclusions and might hence represent original research, whose inclusion I know is frowned upon. Is there a way to avoid collision with this wikipedia rule in this case? Flickyard ( talk) 08:50, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
As a sidenote, I'd still like to cite Weisser for both the plot summary and his view on humour in "Fidani", which I believe pertains very much to this film since it is the only thing he mentions in his discussion of this film in particular. Flickyard ( talk) 15:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Allow me to add some of my own unsourced commentary to this discussion here. D'Amato was some twenty years younger than Fidani. Might D'Amato have been working as what is often called an "assistant director", and the later statements in interviews were simply examples of bad memory or loose language? Or how about another possibility -- what if D'Amato and Fidani were each acting as directors on two separate projects, neither of which came to fruition? And what if Spataro later cobbled together scenes from those projects to create Go Away? If this is case, then Spataro really was the director of the final version of the film and D'Amato and Fidani were each relegated to the roles of "assistant directors". I have no evidence to support either of these two "what ifs", but they are each so plausible that it makes me hesitant to do anything other than simply repeat (in the article) only those things actually being said by reliable sources.
Regarding your second posting, I agree that the quote is too good to throw away. In a few minutes, I'll take a shot at re-writing the way it's presented. Feel free to revert if you don't like it. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 16:17, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
@ NewYorkActuary:Spataro gets interviewed himself on "Joe D'Amato Uncut" as far as I remember. I will revisit that documentary and document the statements made there, including indication of minutes and seconds. Your "what if" of Spataro putting this together seems unlikely to me, but possible. "Bad memory" is not to be excluded of course, though "loose wording" is; both statements by D'Amato on this matter are careful and detailed, no discrepancies; I will transcribe them.
In assessing the staff credits on these smaller spaghetti westerns, it seems that one has to rely on statements in interviews, since credits on these are sometimes bogus. The reason D'Amato gives for not taking directorial credit on this one, which I put into the article, seems plausible to me, on its own and since it is similar to his practice of crediting a producer's pseudonym as director in his "Alexander Borsky" adult films. Crediting the producer seems to have been a practice employed by directors who didn't want their names tied to the work for one reason or the other.
That "Dick Spitfire" was a pseudonym of "Diego Spataro" is plausible due to its phonological similarity to the actual name and D'Amato's statement, in which he explicitly mentions the pseudonym tied to the producer.
Still, I think it is best to represent the "Fidani" side present in the sources, too, as you suggest; I would like to add to the article that Weisser indicates no other source for his "Fidani" assumption than the identity of the directorial credit with the other film credited to "Dick Spitfire" and supposedly directed by Fidani, though some sources seem to indicate Luigi Batzella as the director on that one. So Weisser's assumption might simply be based on wrong facts; I'm also guessing he didn't know D'Amato's interviews.
Personally, I don't see any reason for crediting Fidani other than the facts that
The latter fact is one I could state in the article, I guess; the other ones are my personal observations and not documented well enough in the sources as far as I can see. Flickyard ( talk) 06:12, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I do own the Italian DVD release of the movie with a booklet which I could cite from in addition if additional citation are needed. Flickyard ( talk) 08:15, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Stelvio Rosi (credited as Stan Cooper) — Jonathan Duke III. I assume that there'll be nothing controversial about the real-life identities of the cast members, so I'm happy to let this be done after publication. I enjoyed working with you on this. I hope you'll stick around Wikipedia to work on some more articles. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 06:40, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
Weisser wasn't present when or where these films were made. Joe D'Amato's personal statement that he directed this film should be seen as a very strong PRIMARY source. I'm sure D'Amato was certain that he directed this film, since it was apparently the first film he ever directed. How could Weisser's assumptions possibly supersede D'Amato's own recorded claim? Not to mention Weisser's book is riddled with many errors and inaccuracies, especially regarding variant titles on these westerns. His book has since been supplanted by more current (and correct) research tomes,and should at this point only be referred to as a last resort. 68.129.15.71 ( talk) 18:23, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Well, author Weisser wasn't on the set. I'd rather believe D'Amato than Weisser. I would think D'Amato would know what his first directing job was. That interview with D'Amato is PRIMARY evidence, not second-hand assumptions like Weisser's comments. 68.129.15.71 ( talk) 19:56, 2 June 2019 (UTC)