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Antidiskriminator and
Ktrimi991:
It is not a translation from Serbian. It is merely using the Albanian version of the name. Since Jovan goes back to Hebrew and is the same name, there can be no translation. Same applies in case of Pope Gjon Pali II, from Giovanni Paolo. It is not a translation of the Giovanni name, just using the Albanian version, similar to Jovan would not be the translation of Giovanni or John, and so on. Furthermore, Elsie reference is out of context. Elsie talks about John Vladimir, and gives the Albanian and Serbian versions on the name, but the topic is not about naming conventions or names interchanges.
Mondiad (
talk) 13:16, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Exactly, Antidiskriminator's edit contained
WP:OR. Elsie says Jovan Vladimir is known in Albanian as Gjon Vladimir, however he does not state that Gjon is the Albanian translation or transliteration of Jovan or vice versa. Jovan is a common name in Albania, for example Jovan Bregu, that guy in the movie.
Ktrimi991 (
talk) 13:26, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Jovan Vladimir is very important for Serbs, but people outside the Balkans have never even heard of him.. Now you say
I also didn't deny that Jovan Vladimir is notable and I never would. When you realised it is absurd to deny notability of a saint you introduced a red herring and straw man fallacy, pretending that this discussion is about whether he is the most notable Gjon which is disupte unrelated to the content of the article. This discussion is clearly about content dispute, whether the text of the article should contain information that in some cases Gjon is also Albanian language transliteration of Serbian name Jovan. Fallacies are disruptive attempts to circumvent regular consensus building, based on arguments grounded in wikipedia policies. The only policy presented against the inclusion of above text is WP:UNDUE, which is of course, absurd taking in consideration exemptional notability of Gjon Vladimir. In the absence of the real arguments you introduced fallacies not to allow a single mention of something Serbian in the Albanian related article. Although it is connected to subject of exemptional notability and well cited. I know that nothing I write here could change your modus operandi, so this will be my last comment in this section. All the best. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 19:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
"Saint John, Shën Gjóni, apostle. This Christian name appears in Albanian in some variants, as Jon, Gjon and Jan. In toponymy: Shijon [ʃijɒn] - twice in the surroundings of Elbasan; Shinjan[ʃinjɑn] -near Delvina; while Gjon appears without the attribute Shën in the variants Gjonm[gjɒnm] and Gjorm [gjɔrm].Shën Gjíni (no related names in other languages). The name of this Saint is found in Mirditëa(Beci, 1982: 28), twice in the surroundings of Tirana and in Elbasan."The name stems from the figure Saint John the Apostle and not the local saint who is known in Serbian as St. Jovan. We can add St. Jovan to the list and state beside it that he is originally called Jovan. Resnjari ( talk) 20:06, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Joni, një formë e përdorur në mesjetë në viset veriore të vendit, ka dhënë trajtën Jonima, e përdorur shumë si mbiemer nga arbëreshët e Italisë në atë periudhë." So Jonima comes from Joni and both are medieval Albanian used forms of the name Gjon etc. A quick word on Zoto's book. It is good for those editors who want to create Albanian name articles on both English and Albanian wikipedia. One can get a copy from here [4] its around 446 pages and well researched. Hope it assists. Best. Resnjari ( talk) 05:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
I came across this article Gjoni (surname). Its short and another name article on Gjon. Should we move contents into this one and make that article a redirect? Best. Resnjari ( talk) 21:11, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
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@
Antidiskriminator and
Ktrimi991:
It is not a translation from Serbian. It is merely using the Albanian version of the name. Since Jovan goes back to Hebrew and is the same name, there can be no translation. Same applies in case of Pope Gjon Pali II, from Giovanni Paolo. It is not a translation of the Giovanni name, just using the Albanian version, similar to Jovan would not be the translation of Giovanni or John, and so on. Furthermore, Elsie reference is out of context. Elsie talks about John Vladimir, and gives the Albanian and Serbian versions on the name, but the topic is not about naming conventions or names interchanges.
Mondiad (
talk) 13:16, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Exactly, Antidiskriminator's edit contained
WP:OR. Elsie says Jovan Vladimir is known in Albanian as Gjon Vladimir, however he does not state that Gjon is the Albanian translation or transliteration of Jovan or vice versa. Jovan is a common name in Albania, for example Jovan Bregu, that guy in the movie.
Ktrimi991 (
talk) 13:26, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Jovan Vladimir is very important for Serbs, but people outside the Balkans have never even heard of him.. Now you say
I also didn't deny that Jovan Vladimir is notable and I never would. When you realised it is absurd to deny notability of a saint you introduced a red herring and straw man fallacy, pretending that this discussion is about whether he is the most notable Gjon which is disupte unrelated to the content of the article. This discussion is clearly about content dispute, whether the text of the article should contain information that in some cases Gjon is also Albanian language transliteration of Serbian name Jovan. Fallacies are disruptive attempts to circumvent regular consensus building, based on arguments grounded in wikipedia policies. The only policy presented against the inclusion of above text is WP:UNDUE, which is of course, absurd taking in consideration exemptional notability of Gjon Vladimir. In the absence of the real arguments you introduced fallacies not to allow a single mention of something Serbian in the Albanian related article. Although it is connected to subject of exemptional notability and well cited. I know that nothing I write here could change your modus operandi, so this will be my last comment in this section. All the best. -- Antidiskriminator ( talk) 19:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
"Saint John, Shën Gjóni, apostle. This Christian name appears in Albanian in some variants, as Jon, Gjon and Jan. In toponymy: Shijon [ʃijɒn] - twice in the surroundings of Elbasan; Shinjan[ʃinjɑn] -near Delvina; while Gjon appears without the attribute Shën in the variants Gjonm[gjɒnm] and Gjorm [gjɔrm].Shën Gjíni (no related names in other languages). The name of this Saint is found in Mirditëa(Beci, 1982: 28), twice in the surroundings of Tirana and in Elbasan."The name stems from the figure Saint John the Apostle and not the local saint who is known in Serbian as St. Jovan. We can add St. Jovan to the list and state beside it that he is originally called Jovan. Resnjari ( talk) 20:06, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Joni, një formë e përdorur në mesjetë në viset veriore të vendit, ka dhënë trajtën Jonima, e përdorur shumë si mbiemer nga arbëreshët e Italisë në atë periudhë." So Jonima comes from Joni and both are medieval Albanian used forms of the name Gjon etc. A quick word on Zoto's book. It is good for those editors who want to create Albanian name articles on both English and Albanian wikipedia. One can get a copy from here [4] its around 446 pages and well researched. Hope it assists. Best. Resnjari ( talk) 05:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
I came across this article Gjoni (surname). Its short and another name article on Gjon. Should we move contents into this one and make that article a redirect? Best. Resnjari ( talk) 21:11, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Gjon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:11, 18 October 2017 (UTC)