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Hmm. Are you actually talking about women? If so, the word girl shouldn't really be used (except in the title and the phrase). How about "Girly girl is a derogatory slang term for a young woman" etc...?
Unless the term really is used only for adolescents? Evercat 12:59 25 May 2003 (UTC)
LordK, Maybe macho was a poor word choice. Sorry, I should have said manly man, maybe? I think rationality, though, is a separate personality trait, even though certain enneagram types or whatever seem to correlate to each gender, you know?
Unless you're comparing rationality vs. emotionality, in which case, isn't that very much a masculine trait then, "trouble with your emotions?" Just because you may not act like a jerk, that doesn't mean you do not identify as very male and fit a typical male gender role, right? (Even I wouldn't say male and misogyny are synonymous!)
Perhaps there should be some expansion of gender, or gender role maybe, to deal with different traits more precisely as far as what traits and characteristics are perceived in which way and linked with which gender or role. What do you think?
As for the girly girls being called shallow, this is from that article: "A person is shallow if they are perceived to lack emotional or intellectual depth." Below that it points out, highly erroneously I think, that shallow people will tend to cling to traditional gender roles simply because they lack originality. It's a separte situation from most girly girls though. No one is saying girly girls are "ditzy" or "airheaded." In fact, isn't their preoccupation with relationships probably based on their inherent emotionality and a sign of their emotional depth? Paige 19:32 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I just reverted the following edit because I can't figure out what it was supposed to mean and some of these words aren't even words:
If anyone can clarify this and make it grammaticcally correct, we should place it UNDER the current text, rather than deleting the current text. Thanks, Paige 16:35 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I meant to say that many women and men may still have internalized conceptions of "how a woman should behave/dress", or "how a man should behave/dress" regardless of how they actually behave or dress.. When putting it like you did, I doubt whether it was an argument or mere speculation or some generalization, I retract. If anyone understood what I tried to say and wants to reword this, then you can.. -- Rotem Dan 16:47 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
But all of my words were actually "words", throw this into a spellchecker like http://www.spellonline.com and see.. :) -- Rotem Dan 17:02 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Another thing, I think a professional psychologist can give benefit for these type of articles.. -- Rotem Dan 17:04 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Can somebody describe their typifying speaking manner? It's really "sweet" and maybe raise their tone-pitch regularly at the end of each sentence like what a Brit would consider to be a sentence seeking approval or expressing uncertainty. The way "girly girls" talk is quite obvious and different from "normal average" young women. -- Menchi 09:58, Aug 14, 2003 (UTC)
Although the first paragraph is a good description of the term, I have some problems with the second, especially:
A point worthy of note is that "girly girls" are often more tolerant of diversity among men than their "straighter" counterparts and as a consequence tend to have friendships with gay men.
On what kind of information or arguments is this statement founded? There seems to be a suggestion that "girly girls" are not heterosexual (by comparing them to "'straighter' counterparts") but (at least to me) this seems to go against the 'traditional gender role' they supposedely follow.
Would anyone be so kind to explain this to me, or possibly clarify it?
I have removed the image from this article. There is no basis in which to believe that the children in this photo have even discovered their own gender identity, let alone that they are displaying it publicly. Both are young enough that the could have been dressed in accordance with parental preference. Further, the original photograph doesn't even confirm that the child identified as a tomboy is even female.
I am sure that, with some effort, one could find images of an adult "girly girl" who self-identifies as such, and is lesbian. This article doesn't discuss the fact that the term "girly girl" also applies to heterosexual women who prefer to present themselves in an archetypically feminine manner. Some consideration should probably be given to merging this article with Lipstick lesbian and redirecting this title to that page. Risker ( talk) 19:27, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I would rather this not be a stub at all, but if we must address yet another derogatory term to describe women or girls, then I would say this article does a very poor job of doing so. First of all, it seems that a brief overview can not even be established without debate as to what should and should not be included. On the topic of "women verses girls" performing the role of girly girl, I believe it is irrelevant, obviously there will be exceptions to every rule, why not merely include both and drop the petty discussions. That way neither of the parties (those encompassing girls or women will feel neglected) according to the wiki definition
Noun girly girl (plural girly girls) A woman who behaves in a predominantly feminine manner (that is, who is not by any means a tomboy); a feminine woman.
Woman is used, therefore I believe it ought to be incorporated. Perhaps if there was more information besides just the brief summary, for example etymology of the word, where it is used most, by whom and for what purpose? are these not more important than the issue of girl or woman... ( Amandamacumber ( talk) 19:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC))
"who chooses to dress and behave in a traditionally feminine style" or "who chooses to dress and behave in an especially feminine style"
IMO (and I believe the sources bear this out), traditionally feminine features include wearing pink, using make-up, dressing in skirts, dresses and blouses, and talking about relationships. By way of contrast, someone can certainly be seen as "feminine" with short hair, in jeans, etc. The haircut and jeans may be seen as especially feminine, though they certainly aren't "girly girl" feminine. Girly girl feminine (in the U.S. anyway) is far more likely to involve longer hair and a dress. Female leads in mainstream period dramas tend toward "girly girl"/traditionally feminine style.
Consider Exhibit A, Natalie Portman with short hair, wearing jeans. The "lad mag" blog this photo is from can't seem to handle it. She's "handsome" and looks like the author in elementary school. [1] Not at all "girly girl". "Feminine"? You tell me. Whatever your opinion, she's clearly not channeling June Cleaver.
Consider Exhibit B, a google image search for "girly girl". The first thing I noticed here was that the pink receptors in my eyes had burnt out. Next was the prevalence of dresses and skirts. (To balance out the damage to your eyes, try searching for "tomboy" -- blues and greys.) Note that the "tomboys" are not merely "less feminine" in some vague kind of way. They're wearing suspenders, slacks and ties, dark blues and greys, heck, tuxedos. They are explicitly dressed in clothing that is traditionally male.
Other's thoughts? - SummerPhD ( talk) 02:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Extended content
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I am researching words and phrases that relate to sissy / girls talk such as:- Isn't it cute How absolutely delicious Pretty Isn't it Can you help me to expand this list, phrases or words will help, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.242.108 ( talk) 07:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
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'Superscript- Bit C h Th Atis Youhoe 2600:1700:1976:E800:FC4C:53BE:F5EB:991D ( talk) 01:58, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Girly girl article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hmm. Are you actually talking about women? If so, the word girl shouldn't really be used (except in the title and the phrase). How about "Girly girl is a derogatory slang term for a young woman" etc...?
Unless the term really is used only for adolescents? Evercat 12:59 25 May 2003 (UTC)
LordK, Maybe macho was a poor word choice. Sorry, I should have said manly man, maybe? I think rationality, though, is a separate personality trait, even though certain enneagram types or whatever seem to correlate to each gender, you know?
Unless you're comparing rationality vs. emotionality, in which case, isn't that very much a masculine trait then, "trouble with your emotions?" Just because you may not act like a jerk, that doesn't mean you do not identify as very male and fit a typical male gender role, right? (Even I wouldn't say male and misogyny are synonymous!)
Perhaps there should be some expansion of gender, or gender role maybe, to deal with different traits more precisely as far as what traits and characteristics are perceived in which way and linked with which gender or role. What do you think?
As for the girly girls being called shallow, this is from that article: "A person is shallow if they are perceived to lack emotional or intellectual depth." Below that it points out, highly erroneously I think, that shallow people will tend to cling to traditional gender roles simply because they lack originality. It's a separte situation from most girly girls though. No one is saying girly girls are "ditzy" or "airheaded." In fact, isn't their preoccupation with relationships probably based on their inherent emotionality and a sign of their emotional depth? Paige 19:32 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I just reverted the following edit because I can't figure out what it was supposed to mean and some of these words aren't even words:
If anyone can clarify this and make it grammaticcally correct, we should place it UNDER the current text, rather than deleting the current text. Thanks, Paige 16:35 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I meant to say that many women and men may still have internalized conceptions of "how a woman should behave/dress", or "how a man should behave/dress" regardless of how they actually behave or dress.. When putting it like you did, I doubt whether it was an argument or mere speculation or some generalization, I retract. If anyone understood what I tried to say and wants to reword this, then you can.. -- Rotem Dan 16:47 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
But all of my words were actually "words", throw this into a spellchecker like http://www.spellonline.com and see.. :) -- Rotem Dan 17:02 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Another thing, I think a professional psychologist can give benefit for these type of articles.. -- Rotem Dan 17:04 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Can somebody describe their typifying speaking manner? It's really "sweet" and maybe raise their tone-pitch regularly at the end of each sentence like what a Brit would consider to be a sentence seeking approval or expressing uncertainty. The way "girly girls" talk is quite obvious and different from "normal average" young women. -- Menchi 09:58, Aug 14, 2003 (UTC)
Although the first paragraph is a good description of the term, I have some problems with the second, especially:
A point worthy of note is that "girly girls" are often more tolerant of diversity among men than their "straighter" counterparts and as a consequence tend to have friendships with gay men.
On what kind of information or arguments is this statement founded? There seems to be a suggestion that "girly girls" are not heterosexual (by comparing them to "'straighter' counterparts") but (at least to me) this seems to go against the 'traditional gender role' they supposedely follow.
Would anyone be so kind to explain this to me, or possibly clarify it?
I have removed the image from this article. There is no basis in which to believe that the children in this photo have even discovered their own gender identity, let alone that they are displaying it publicly. Both are young enough that the could have been dressed in accordance with parental preference. Further, the original photograph doesn't even confirm that the child identified as a tomboy is even female.
I am sure that, with some effort, one could find images of an adult "girly girl" who self-identifies as such, and is lesbian. This article doesn't discuss the fact that the term "girly girl" also applies to heterosexual women who prefer to present themselves in an archetypically feminine manner. Some consideration should probably be given to merging this article with Lipstick lesbian and redirecting this title to that page. Risker ( talk) 19:27, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I would rather this not be a stub at all, but if we must address yet another derogatory term to describe women or girls, then I would say this article does a very poor job of doing so. First of all, it seems that a brief overview can not even be established without debate as to what should and should not be included. On the topic of "women verses girls" performing the role of girly girl, I believe it is irrelevant, obviously there will be exceptions to every rule, why not merely include both and drop the petty discussions. That way neither of the parties (those encompassing girls or women will feel neglected) according to the wiki definition
Noun girly girl (plural girly girls) A woman who behaves in a predominantly feminine manner (that is, who is not by any means a tomboy); a feminine woman.
Woman is used, therefore I believe it ought to be incorporated. Perhaps if there was more information besides just the brief summary, for example etymology of the word, where it is used most, by whom and for what purpose? are these not more important than the issue of girl or woman... ( Amandamacumber ( talk) 19:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC))
"who chooses to dress and behave in a traditionally feminine style" or "who chooses to dress and behave in an especially feminine style"
IMO (and I believe the sources bear this out), traditionally feminine features include wearing pink, using make-up, dressing in skirts, dresses and blouses, and talking about relationships. By way of contrast, someone can certainly be seen as "feminine" with short hair, in jeans, etc. The haircut and jeans may be seen as especially feminine, though they certainly aren't "girly girl" feminine. Girly girl feminine (in the U.S. anyway) is far more likely to involve longer hair and a dress. Female leads in mainstream period dramas tend toward "girly girl"/traditionally feminine style.
Consider Exhibit A, Natalie Portman with short hair, wearing jeans. The "lad mag" blog this photo is from can't seem to handle it. She's "handsome" and looks like the author in elementary school. [1] Not at all "girly girl". "Feminine"? You tell me. Whatever your opinion, she's clearly not channeling June Cleaver.
Consider Exhibit B, a google image search for "girly girl". The first thing I noticed here was that the pink receptors in my eyes had burnt out. Next was the prevalence of dresses and skirts. (To balance out the damage to your eyes, try searching for "tomboy" -- blues and greys.) Note that the "tomboys" are not merely "less feminine" in some vague kind of way. They're wearing suspenders, slacks and ties, dark blues and greys, heck, tuxedos. They are explicitly dressed in clothing that is traditionally male.
Other's thoughts? - SummerPhD ( talk) 02:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
I am researching words and phrases that relate to sissy / girls talk such as:- Isn't it cute How absolutely delicious Pretty Isn't it Can you help me to expand this list, phrases or words will help, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.242.108 ( talk) 07:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
|
'Superscript- Bit C h Th Atis Youhoe 2600:1700:1976:E800:FC4C:53BE:F5EB:991D ( talk) 01:58, 20 November 2023 (UTC)