Anyone who has not contributed significantly to (or nominated) this article may review it according to the
good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a
good article. To start the review process, click start review and save the page. (See here for the
good article instructions.)
Note: This is the third time that this article is nominated for GA. The main and only reason that it had not been promoted to GA at the second attempt was that one of the sources, Gangrule, was not considered a reliable source. Since then more reliable sources have been added, but more importantly Gangrule itself has been updated and reliable sources have been added to that site. Which makes me believe that after two extensive reviews, this time the review will take little time and that it might succeed.
DonCalo (
talk) 17:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Short description: New York City crime boss
Giosue Gallucci was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that at the time of his death
crime bossGiosue Gallucci held US$350,000 in real estate and was considered to be a millionaire?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Hi DonCalo, I'll be happy to review this one. I specialize in Mexican crime bosses biographies so I'm excited to take a look at this. My review will be divided in two parts. In my first part, I will post any grammatical/prose corrections needed. In my second review, I will try to go through every source and verify the information (as well as checking for close paraphrasing). I'm going to try to get this done before Sunday (today), but if not, please be patient. I will work to get this soon for you.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
17:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Since DonCalo hasn't edited in a while, I'm going to complete some minor fixes now and if they don't return in a couple days, I'll try and tackle some of the bigger issues brought up by the reviewer. I'll also add some comments of my own when I feel their needed.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:13, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Part 1
Comments: Overall, the article has great flow. There were some issues here and there with the prose and layout. The ones I wanted you to address are below, but I will be doing some minor copyedits along the way for other things I did not mention. I will do part 2 later and post it here.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
20:51, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
I've made some of the part 1 recommendations and left some, mostly relating to paraphrasing just in case DonCalo returns in the next day or so. If they don't, I'll return to them myself. I've also added a few comments.
Libertybison (
talk)
00:23, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Introduction
was an old-style crime boss - What does old-style mean?
and Giosuè Gallucci ascamorristi – Remove the first name since it is already stated before.
The report is from 1862, before Giosue Gallucci was born, so it's a different person. I think it's supposed to suggest they may be related. I'm not sure if the source quoted actually says this or the editor is inferring it themselves.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
User:Libertybison: How do you feel about me adding this sentence as a footnote: "An 1862 Naples police report identified another man named Giosuè Gallucci and Giuseppe as camorristi − Italian for a members of the Camorra −, but it is unknown if these were relatives". I feel this is somewhat out of place and might confuse the readers.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
17:27, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
"a dangerous criminal, belonging to the category of blackmailers, and for his very bad character was put under special police surveillance and confined to prison. He was charged several times with theft and association with delinquents, and was condemned nine times for theft, outrages, blackmail, lesion, and transgressions of the special police surveillance." – I think the quote may be a bit long. I think you can paraphrase the charges sentence (2nd sentence)
his brothers Gennaro, Vincenzo and Francesco in Italy - perhaps you can link these per
WP:REDLINK. The last two have articles in Italian Wikipedia.
[1][2]
The two Italian Wikipedia article are for different people with the same names from the 20th century. I can't tell if the brothers are notable enough for their own articles, I don't know how notable they are in Italian criminal history. They're sort of in the background in Giosue's story, at least in the U.S. part.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:54, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
could not be deported – link deported with
deported
"a certain measure of immunity from police interference."[2][6][18] – Would you be able to spread out these sources? Seems like a minor
WP:CITEKILL issue, especially because it should not be difficult to cite the New York Herald for these two quotes.
Last paragraph of Political influence – This paragraph is almost all about quotes. Please paraphrase accordingly.
I don't understand what you're asking. All the quotes are Gallucci's opinion/interpretation so they can't really be paraphrased. Do you want the size of the quote reduced?
Libertybison (
talk)
22:58, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Quotes can always be paraphrased. But this isn't my biggest concern with the article. It is mostly GangRule as a source.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
13:43, 20 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Killing his brother?
Title of section – I do not think the title name is appropriate. Perhaps change to Death of sibling, that way we give equal weight to all points of view.
In contrast, Gallucci blamed Aniello Prisco – first name too, unless you want to stick with using his last name throughout the entire article, though it might be difficult in this section given Gennaro’s mention.
notorious lame and feared gangster from Harlem – what does lame mean? Also, be careful with
WP:WEASEL. When I write biographies about criminals, I usually put “high-ranking” instead of powerful. Consider revising this to avoid weasel words.
Removed weasel words. It says "Zopo" was the leader of a gang in the next paragraph which should be enough. Crippled would be better than lame but it might be an unnecessary detail without more information about what was wrong with him.
Libertybison (
talk)
01:32, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Fighting over underworld control
"At that time Gallucci controlled different gambling games and he would get a percentage on the sale of stolen horses and peddled artichokes. If anybody would not pay this percentage he would either be assaulted, receive blackmail letters or be killed." - This can be paraphrased.
The Neapolitan Del Gaudio brothers, who had connections – Should the brothers be red linked per
WP:REDLINK?
I'm not sure, but I'm going to say no for now because of a lack of information I could find on them and the stricter policy on creating biography articles on criminals. But if I'm wrong and articles end up being created later we can just add links to those articles then.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:08, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
He fled from Italian Harlem – change he to Del Gaudio.
after the latest in a series had been shot and killed – his last groups of bodyguards were shot and killed? Let me know and I will copyedit it a bit.
The Tuesday May 15, 1015 New York Herald article said Gallucci's last bodyguard (just one person) had been shot and killed on May 8th (or as the article put it "a week ago Saturday night").
Libertybison (
talk)
20:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Gallucci had been wounded and two … bodyguards had been killed – “was wounded” and “were killed”
possibly was the biggest one ever for a member of the underworld – Do you have access to the source? Seems like this is using WP:WEASEL again. Perhaps rephrase “one of the biggest funerals for organized crime members” or something like that?
According to some, Don Fanucci, a fictional character – according to whom?
The some is the blog post used as the source. It appear to be the blogger's opinion from watching the movie and not come from any source mentioned by the blogger. I'd recommend removing this Godfather fact a unsourced. But I'd like to wait a day or so to see if DonCalo returns in case they might be able to better source the claim. This comment also applies to point below.
Libertybison (
talk)
00:09, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Comments: Now this is the part that gets difficult. I found some serious close paraphrasing issues here and there, and those need to get addressed immediately. In some parts, the sources did not support the text (usually off by a few critical details). This often happens when writing an article with a bunch of sources so I get it. Chances are the text is supported by another source cited elsewhere, but we still need to make sure the text is 100% across the board. Another of my biggest concerns is Gang Rule. Does not seem like a reliable sources at first glance, so I want to get your input. I understand it has valuable information (since this happened over 100 years ago, the information we have is scarce and it's easy to use Gang Rule to update an article). Please let me know what you think.
ComputerJA (
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01:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Source 1 –
[3] Is Gang Rule a reliable source? I have my doubts.
I think it depends on the specific article on the site. Unfortunately, I don't think this applies to the biographies of the Galluccis, with the exception of the information that comes from Genarro's death certificate which is shown and used as a source.
Libertybison (
talk)
08:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
born in Naples, Italy, in 1865 – Please add the entire DOB since it is in the infobox. Remember to use a reliable source for this.
Other sources, including Critchley, say 1864 not 1865. This appears to be an error in GangRule. I was trying to figure out why the Gennaro page was cited. It turns out that it includes an image of Gennaro's death certificate with his parents names on it. Although Giosue and Gennaro could have different mothers.
Libertybison (
talk)
23:48, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
In April 1898, he was arrested in New York in connection with the murder of Josephine Inselma …. Gallucci said he had no reason to kill the woman and provided an alibi – According to both sources, the murderer was Joshio Galluca. There is no mention of Galluci.
It looks like it's just written nearly phonetically. Critchley's book also cites a newspaper article about the story, although it's in a footnote (pg. 274 n35)
Libertybison (
talk)
23:48, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
The police prefect of Naples responded that Gallucci was "a dangerous criminal, belonging to the category of blackmailers, and for his very bad character was put under special police surveillance and confined to prison. He was charged several times with theft and association with delinquents, and was condemned nine times for theft, outrages, blackmail, lesion, and transgressions of the special police surveillance." – This quote does not mention Josephine and fails to establish how this quote is related to the murder. This was actually said in
1893. Again, one of the sources said that Gallucci was walking with Josephine when she was killed. He was arrested, but the man in question was Joshio from what I understood. Gallucci was arrested and released the next day per source
[4]
You're incorrect the article you link to is from 1898, not 1893. The letter in the article says 1898, Chronicling America site says it's from 1898, one of the other articles on the page refers the Democrats' 1896 platform, and one of the articles refers to annexation debate over Hawaii which didn't occur until 1898. (Grover Cleveland the president from 1893-1897 was against the annexation of Hawaii.) As for the comment about "Joshio" see my comment above.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:24, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
The criminal background of his brothers Gennaro – No mention of Gennaro in source.
described as a blackmailer who spent two terms in prison and was condemned sixteen times for assault, attempted murder and other crimes – This was literally copied verbatim. Please remove or paraphrase this.
Gallucci eventually built various businesses in East Harlem; first in Mulberry Street and later in a three story brick house with a bakery and an attached stable at 318 East 109th Street.[14] – This uses Gang Rule, which I am not sure how I feel about its reliability. Have other reliable sources used Gang Rule?
Newspapers at the time wrote about him as a legitimate businessman; the personification of a successful immigrant. – I read the entire excerpt on him and the newspaper did not describe him as legitimate. The source starts explaining his murder and then how he “controls” businesses. I’d say revise this to something that describes him more as a mafia boss.
His elder brother, Gennaro Gallucci (born 1857) – Source says Genario, and no mention of his DOB. Perhaps we can add a footnote for the different ways the name was spelled. Let me know if you need help.
I've removed to DOB. I don't know if a footnote is necessary, maybe we can just add a non-newspaper source citation with the correct spelling along with the newspaper source?
Libertybison (
talk)
21:48, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
New York Police captured him on September 20, 1909 – Source says the 14th, but then again it is Gang Rule.
However, the courts were unaware of his full criminal background and released him with a suspended sentence. The police believed his killing two months later may have been connected to Gennaro's blackmailing activities. The bakery of the Galluccis had been attacked only a few months before when bullets smashed through the window. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. – Major close paraphrasing from Gang Rule.
In contrast, Giosuè blamed Aniello Prisco – nicknamed "Zopo the Gimp” – No mention of this nickname in source. He was known as the King of the Black Hand, per source.
The Mike Dash book also mentions that nickname but I can't see the page number on Google Books. I'll use that as a source once I find the page number.
Libertybison (
talk)
20:29, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
At the time, the police described him as "the leader of the Italian criminals in Harlem" and that "his consent was necessary before anything out of the way could be done in Harlem's Little Italy." Speculation about the reason behind the arrests was that it could have been an attempt to smash Gallucci's vice ring – The source never explicitly mentions Gallucci. I could not find the quotes either.
a transgression of the Sullivan Act – no mention of this on either of the two sources, though one is Gang Rule.
ComputerJA has put this review on hold for a week to see if DonCalo will return by then. I think that's a good idea, so I'll hold off on addressing other review comments until 13 March but I'd still like to try to work on the review if we don't hear from DonCalo by then.
Libertybison (
talk)
20:29, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Libertybison - I'm somewhat undecided about pushing the date, since GangRule is an unreliable source and it is used a lot in this article. I can access the books GangRule reportedly goes by and help DonCalo or other editors update the article appropriately, but that would mean we would need another reviewer for GA3.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
15:27, 13 March 2017 (UTC)reply
If you feel like you can no longer be a reviewer for this article, than it may be best to end it now. Otherwise, I'd recommend waiting another week for DonCalo.
Libertybison (
talk)
16:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Second opinion
Hi, I want to request for a second opinion. Libertybison has done a great job of improving my requests/concerns in DonCalo's (the original nominator) absence. I left the review open for one week and was then asked to push it for another to see if DonCalo returned. The article is well-written, comprehensive, and overall it looks ripe for promotion. My only concern is with its use of the source
GangRule.com. I sent this concern to the Reliable Source Noticeboard
a couple of weeks ago. GangRule.com reportedly is based off two reliable books,
The Origin of Organized Crime in America and
The First Family. But there is no way to know which pages GangRule is basing its information from. That is my only concern with the article now.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
13:54, 20 March 2017 (UTC)reply
My personal opinion is that GangRule is not reliable enough for the way it is used (which seems to reflects the reliable noticeboard and your opinion). Some of the information it is cited to falls into the 2b category so I would fail it if that cannot be resolved. However, I read that you have access to the reliable sources and might be willing to add these citations to the article, but would not feel comfortable passing it. Since it has come this far, if you are agreeable, I am willing to offer my services as a second reviewer for the 2b criteria if you replace the GangRule cites.
AIRcorn(talk)07:20, 30 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Update: I already have one book. I'll get the other one this weekend and take a look at them and see if we can use them. Cheers,
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
14:55, 16 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I have this watchlisted, but my watchlist is pretty crowded nowadays. Feel free to ping me or drop a talk page notice when you are ready for me to take a look if I don't respond.
AIRcorn(talk)09:11, 17 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I think we will have to fail this one. I have the two books with me and I cannot seem to be able to reconcile the article's text with the sources. Here are a few examples (this is not the entire list of things needed to be addressed. I stopped after realizing that everything I was checking from GangRule had some issues):
December 10, 1864 to Luca Gallucci and Antonia Cavallo – none of the books mention 10th, nor his parents. The previous nominator got the parents’ names from Gennaro’s death certificate, which lists his parents. But there is no mention of Giosue in the certificate.
However, the courts were unaware of his full criminal background and released him with a suspended sentence. The police believed his killing two months later may have been connected to Gennaro's blackmailing activities. The bakery of the Galluccis had been attacked only a few months before when bullets smashed through the window. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. – First thing, the last sentence is close paraphrasing. In addition, I could not find all this information on Critchley’s book. The only mention of Genarro is on page 109 (only mentions his death). There is a short mention of Genarro’s death in Dash's book too, but not this.
Rephrased and I found another source about letters claiming that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother
[6]DonCalo (
talk)
20:34, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
first in Mulberry Street and later in a three story brick house with a bakery – There are several mentions of Mulberry Street in Dash’s book (and crime activity there), but no direct correlation to Galluci. No mention of this street in the other book.
or "The Mayor of Little Italy" – Could not find this title in both books (nor in Nelli’s).
If renominated for GA again, we would have to discard GangRule's claims and try to reconcile every claim made in this article that is attributed to GangRule using other sources (in the two books above and probably in other sources). I'm sadden to have to fail this, since Libertybison did an excellent work throughout the GA process in DonCalo's absence. I also want to thank AIRcorn for volunteering to take a second look. I'll leave this open till Friday, May 26 in case you guys have any additional comments. I'll be around if you guys need me.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
01:51, 24 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I have replaced several Gangrule references with other sources. Paradoxically, the more other sources I find, the clearer it becomes that Gangrule is well researched and is actually a quite reliable website.
DonCalo (
talk)
21:19, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Gangrule is being updated and sources are being added. The site was launched 20 years without sources, this is slowly being rectified. The Gallucci page has been updated.
Yiofjld400 (
talk)
20:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)reply
ComputerJA, I'd like to thank you for all the extra effort you put in to see if this article could be promoted to GA without DonCalo. I guess it wasn't meant to be, this time. I do think the article is much better following the review and your suggestions for improvement.
Libertybison (
talk)
16:13, 27 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Hello everyone, thanks for trying to promote the article to GA in my absence. I will look into the remaining issue to see if we could try again. -
DonCalo (
talk)
22:56, 5 September 2017 (UTC)reply
Anyone who has not contributed significantly to (or nominated) this article may review it according to the
good article criteria to decide whether or not to list it as a
good article. To start the review process, click start review and save the page. (See here for the
good article instructions.)
Note: This is the third time that this article is nominated for GA. The main and only reason that it had not been promoted to GA at the second attempt was that one of the sources, Gangrule, was not considered a reliable source. Since then more reliable sources have been added, but more importantly Gangrule itself has been updated and reliable sources have been added to that site. Which makes me believe that after two extensive reviews, this time the review will take little time and that it might succeed.
DonCalo (
talk) 17:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Short description: New York City crime boss
Giosue Gallucci was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the
good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that at the time of his death
crime bossGiosue Gallucci held US$350,000 in real estate and was considered to be a millionaire?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Hi DonCalo, I'll be happy to review this one. I specialize in Mexican crime bosses biographies so I'm excited to take a look at this. My review will be divided in two parts. In my first part, I will post any grammatical/prose corrections needed. In my second review, I will try to go through every source and verify the information (as well as checking for close paraphrasing). I'm going to try to get this done before Sunday (today), but if not, please be patient. I will work to get this soon for you.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
17:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Since DonCalo hasn't edited in a while, I'm going to complete some minor fixes now and if they don't return in a couple days, I'll try and tackle some of the bigger issues brought up by the reviewer. I'll also add some comments of my own when I feel their needed.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:13, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Part 1
Comments: Overall, the article has great flow. There were some issues here and there with the prose and layout. The ones I wanted you to address are below, but I will be doing some minor copyedits along the way for other things I did not mention. I will do part 2 later and post it here.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
20:51, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
I've made some of the part 1 recommendations and left some, mostly relating to paraphrasing just in case DonCalo returns in the next day or so. If they don't, I'll return to them myself. I've also added a few comments.
Libertybison (
talk)
00:23, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Introduction
was an old-style crime boss - What does old-style mean?
and Giosuè Gallucci ascamorristi – Remove the first name since it is already stated before.
The report is from 1862, before Giosue Gallucci was born, so it's a different person. I think it's supposed to suggest they may be related. I'm not sure if the source quoted actually says this or the editor is inferring it themselves.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
User:Libertybison: How do you feel about me adding this sentence as a footnote: "An 1862 Naples police report identified another man named Giosuè Gallucci and Giuseppe as camorristi − Italian for a members of the Camorra −, but it is unknown if these were relatives". I feel this is somewhat out of place and might confuse the readers.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
17:27, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
"a dangerous criminal, belonging to the category of blackmailers, and for his very bad character was put under special police surveillance and confined to prison. He was charged several times with theft and association with delinquents, and was condemned nine times for theft, outrages, blackmail, lesion, and transgressions of the special police surveillance." – I think the quote may be a bit long. I think you can paraphrase the charges sentence (2nd sentence)
his brothers Gennaro, Vincenzo and Francesco in Italy - perhaps you can link these per
WP:REDLINK. The last two have articles in Italian Wikipedia.
[1][2]
The two Italian Wikipedia article are for different people with the same names from the 20th century. I can't tell if the brothers are notable enough for their own articles, I don't know how notable they are in Italian criminal history. They're sort of in the background in Giosue's story, at least in the U.S. part.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:54, 5 March 2017 (UTC)reply
could not be deported – link deported with
deported
"a certain measure of immunity from police interference."[2][6][18] – Would you be able to spread out these sources? Seems like a minor
WP:CITEKILL issue, especially because it should not be difficult to cite the New York Herald for these two quotes.
Last paragraph of Political influence – This paragraph is almost all about quotes. Please paraphrase accordingly.
I don't understand what you're asking. All the quotes are Gallucci's opinion/interpretation so they can't really be paraphrased. Do you want the size of the quote reduced?
Libertybison (
talk)
22:58, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Quotes can always be paraphrased. But this isn't my biggest concern with the article. It is mostly GangRule as a source.
ComputerJA (
☎ •
✎)
13:43, 20 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Killing his brother?
Title of section – I do not think the title name is appropriate. Perhaps change to Death of sibling, that way we give equal weight to all points of view.
In contrast, Gallucci blamed Aniello Prisco – first name too, unless you want to stick with using his last name throughout the entire article, though it might be difficult in this section given Gennaro’s mention.
notorious lame and feared gangster from Harlem – what does lame mean? Also, be careful with
WP:WEASEL. When I write biographies about criminals, I usually put “high-ranking” instead of powerful. Consider revising this to avoid weasel words.
Removed weasel words. It says "Zopo" was the leader of a gang in the next paragraph which should be enough. Crippled would be better than lame but it might be an unnecessary detail without more information about what was wrong with him.
Libertybison (
talk)
01:32, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Fighting over underworld control
"At that time Gallucci controlled different gambling games and he would get a percentage on the sale of stolen horses and peddled artichokes. If anybody would not pay this percentage he would either be assaulted, receive blackmail letters or be killed." - This can be paraphrased.
The Neapolitan Del Gaudio brothers, who had connections – Should the brothers be red linked per
WP:REDLINK?
I'm not sure, but I'm going to say no for now because of a lack of information I could find on them and the stricter policy on creating biography articles on criminals. But if I'm wrong and articles end up being created later we can just add links to those articles then.
Libertybison (
talk)
21:08, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
He fled from Italian Harlem – change he to Del Gaudio.
after the latest in a series had been shot and killed – his last groups of bodyguards were shot and killed? Let me know and I will copyedit it a bit.
The Tuesday May 15, 1015 New York Herald article said Gallucci's last bodyguard (just one person) had been shot and killed on May 8th (or as the article put it "a week ago Saturday night").
Libertybison (
talk)
20:46, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Gallucci had been wounded and two … bodyguards had been killed – “was wounded” and “were killed”
possibly was the biggest one ever for a member of the underworld – Do you have access to the source? Seems like this is using WP:WEASEL again. Perhaps rephrase “one of the biggest funerals for organized crime members” or something like that?
According to some, Don Fanucci, a fictional character – according to whom?
The some is the blog post used as the source. It appear to be the blogger's opinion from watching the movie and not come from any source mentioned by the blogger. I'd recommend removing this Godfather fact a unsourced. But I'd like to wait a day or so to see if DonCalo returns in case they might be able to better source the claim. This comment also applies to point below.
Libertybison (
talk)
00:09, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Comments: Now this is the part that gets difficult. I found some serious close paraphrasing issues here and there, and those need to get addressed immediately. In some parts, the sources did not support the text (usually off by a few critical details). This often happens when writing an article with a bunch of sources so I get it. Chances are the text is supported by another source cited elsewhere, but we still need to make sure the text is 100% across the board. Another of my biggest concerns is Gang Rule. Does not seem like a reliable sources at first glance, so I want to get your input. I understand it has valuable information (since this happened over 100 years ago, the information we have is scarce and it's easy to use Gang Rule to update an article). Please let me know what you think.
ComputerJA (
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01:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Source 1 –
[3] Is Gang Rule a reliable source? I have my doubts.
I think it depends on the specific article on the site. Unfortunately, I don't think this applies to the biographies of the Galluccis, with the exception of the information that comes from Genarro's death certificate which is shown and used as a source.
Libertybison (
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08:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
born in Naples, Italy, in 1865 – Please add the entire DOB since it is in the infobox. Remember to use a reliable source for this.
Other sources, including Critchley, say 1864 not 1865. This appears to be an error in GangRule. I was trying to figure out why the Gennaro page was cited. It turns out that it includes an image of Gennaro's death certificate with his parents names on it. Although Giosue and Gennaro could have different mothers.
Libertybison (
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23:48, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
In April 1898, he was arrested in New York in connection with the murder of Josephine Inselma …. Gallucci said he had no reason to kill the woman and provided an alibi – According to both sources, the murderer was Joshio Galluca. There is no mention of Galluci.
It looks like it's just written nearly phonetically. Critchley's book also cites a newspaper article about the story, although it's in a footnote (pg. 274 n35)
Libertybison (
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23:48, 6 March 2017 (UTC)reply
The police prefect of Naples responded that Gallucci was "a dangerous criminal, belonging to the category of blackmailers, and for his very bad character was put under special police surveillance and confined to prison. He was charged several times with theft and association with delinquents, and was condemned nine times for theft, outrages, blackmail, lesion, and transgressions of the special police surveillance." – This quote does not mention Josephine and fails to establish how this quote is related to the murder. This was actually said in
1893. Again, one of the sources said that Gallucci was walking with Josephine when she was killed. He was arrested, but the man in question was Joshio from what I understood. Gallucci was arrested and released the next day per source
[4]
You're incorrect the article you link to is from 1898, not 1893. The letter in the article says 1898, Chronicling America site says it's from 1898, one of the other articles on the page refers the Democrats' 1896 platform, and one of the articles refers to annexation debate over Hawaii which didn't occur until 1898. (Grover Cleveland the president from 1893-1897 was against the annexation of Hawaii.) As for the comment about "Joshio" see my comment above.
Libertybison (
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21:24, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
The criminal background of his brothers Gennaro – No mention of Gennaro in source.
described as a blackmailer who spent two terms in prison and was condemned sixteen times for assault, attempted murder and other crimes – This was literally copied verbatim. Please remove or paraphrase this.
Gallucci eventually built various businesses in East Harlem; first in Mulberry Street and later in a three story brick house with a bakery and an attached stable at 318 East 109th Street.[14] – This uses Gang Rule, which I am not sure how I feel about its reliability. Have other reliable sources used Gang Rule?
Newspapers at the time wrote about him as a legitimate businessman; the personification of a successful immigrant. – I read the entire excerpt on him and the newspaper did not describe him as legitimate. The source starts explaining his murder and then how he “controls” businesses. I’d say revise this to something that describes him more as a mafia boss.
His elder brother, Gennaro Gallucci (born 1857) – Source says Genario, and no mention of his DOB. Perhaps we can add a footnote for the different ways the name was spelled. Let me know if you need help.
I've removed to DOB. I don't know if a footnote is necessary, maybe we can just add a non-newspaper source citation with the correct spelling along with the newspaper source?
Libertybison (
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21:48, 19 March 2017 (UTC)reply
New York Police captured him on September 20, 1909 – Source says the 14th, but then again it is Gang Rule.
However, the courts were unaware of his full criminal background and released him with a suspended sentence. The police believed his killing two months later may have been connected to Gennaro's blackmailing activities. The bakery of the Galluccis had been attacked only a few months before when bullets smashed through the window. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. – Major close paraphrasing from Gang Rule.
In contrast, Giosuè blamed Aniello Prisco – nicknamed "Zopo the Gimp” – No mention of this nickname in source. He was known as the King of the Black Hand, per source.
The Mike Dash book also mentions that nickname but I can't see the page number on Google Books. I'll use that as a source once I find the page number.
Libertybison (
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20:29, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
At the time, the police described him as "the leader of the Italian criminals in Harlem" and that "his consent was necessary before anything out of the way could be done in Harlem's Little Italy." Speculation about the reason behind the arrests was that it could have been an attempt to smash Gallucci's vice ring – The source never explicitly mentions Gallucci. I could not find the quotes either.
a transgression of the Sullivan Act – no mention of this on either of the two sources, though one is Gang Rule.
ComputerJA has put this review on hold for a week to see if DonCalo will return by then. I think that's a good idea, so I'll hold off on addressing other review comments until 13 March but I'd still like to try to work on the review if we don't hear from DonCalo by then.
Libertybison (
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20:29, 7 March 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Libertybison - I'm somewhat undecided about pushing the date, since GangRule is an unreliable source and it is used a lot in this article. I can access the books GangRule reportedly goes by and help DonCalo or other editors update the article appropriately, but that would mean we would need another reviewer for GA3.
ComputerJA (
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15:27, 13 March 2017 (UTC)reply
If you feel like you can no longer be a reviewer for this article, than it may be best to end it now. Otherwise, I'd recommend waiting another week for DonCalo.
Libertybison (
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16:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)reply
Second opinion
Hi, I want to request for a second opinion. Libertybison has done a great job of improving my requests/concerns in DonCalo's (the original nominator) absence. I left the review open for one week and was then asked to push it for another to see if DonCalo returned. The article is well-written, comprehensive, and overall it looks ripe for promotion. My only concern is with its use of the source
GangRule.com. I sent this concern to the Reliable Source Noticeboard
a couple of weeks ago. GangRule.com reportedly is based off two reliable books,
The Origin of Organized Crime in America and
The First Family. But there is no way to know which pages GangRule is basing its information from. That is my only concern with the article now.
ComputerJA (
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13:54, 20 March 2017 (UTC)reply
My personal opinion is that GangRule is not reliable enough for the way it is used (which seems to reflects the reliable noticeboard and your opinion). Some of the information it is cited to falls into the 2b category so I would fail it if that cannot be resolved. However, I read that you have access to the reliable sources and might be willing to add these citations to the article, but would not feel comfortable passing it. Since it has come this far, if you are agreeable, I am willing to offer my services as a second reviewer for the 2b criteria if you replace the GangRule cites.
AIRcorn(talk)07:20, 30 April 2017 (UTC)reply
Update: I already have one book. I'll get the other one this weekend and take a look at them and see if we can use them. Cheers,
ComputerJA (
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14:55, 16 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I have this watchlisted, but my watchlist is pretty crowded nowadays. Feel free to ping me or drop a talk page notice when you are ready for me to take a look if I don't respond.
AIRcorn(talk)09:11, 17 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I think we will have to fail this one. I have the two books with me and I cannot seem to be able to reconcile the article's text with the sources. Here are a few examples (this is not the entire list of things needed to be addressed. I stopped after realizing that everything I was checking from GangRule had some issues):
December 10, 1864 to Luca Gallucci and Antonia Cavallo – none of the books mention 10th, nor his parents. The previous nominator got the parents’ names from Gennaro’s death certificate, which lists his parents. But there is no mention of Giosue in the certificate.
However, the courts were unaware of his full criminal background and released him with a suspended sentence. The police believed his killing two months later may have been connected to Gennaro's blackmailing activities. The bakery of the Galluccis had been attacked only a few months before when bullets smashed through the window. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. In letters that were sent to the police, some informants claimed that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother. – First thing, the last sentence is close paraphrasing. In addition, I could not find all this information on Critchley’s book. The only mention of Genarro is on page 109 (only mentions his death). There is a short mention of Genarro’s death in Dash's book too, but not this.
Rephrased and I found another source about letters claiming that Giosuè had been responsible for the killing of his brother
[6]DonCalo (
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20:34, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
first in Mulberry Street and later in a three story brick house with a bakery – There are several mentions of Mulberry Street in Dash’s book (and crime activity there), but no direct correlation to Galluci. No mention of this street in the other book.
or "The Mayor of Little Italy" – Could not find this title in both books (nor in Nelli’s).
If renominated for GA again, we would have to discard GangRule's claims and try to reconcile every claim made in this article that is attributed to GangRule using other sources (in the two books above and probably in other sources). I'm sadden to have to fail this, since Libertybison did an excellent work throughout the GA process in DonCalo's absence. I also want to thank AIRcorn for volunteering to take a second look. I'll leave this open till Friday, May 26 in case you guys have any additional comments. I'll be around if you guys need me.
ComputerJA (
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01:51, 24 May 2017 (UTC)reply
I have replaced several Gangrule references with other sources. Paradoxically, the more other sources I find, the clearer it becomes that Gangrule is well researched and is actually a quite reliable website.
DonCalo (
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21:19, 2 May 2023 (UTC)reply
Gangrule is being updated and sources are being added. The site was launched 20 years without sources, this is slowly being rectified. The Gallucci page has been updated.
Yiofjld400 (
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20:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)reply
ComputerJA, I'd like to thank you for all the extra effort you put in to see if this article could be promoted to GA without DonCalo. I guess it wasn't meant to be, this time. I do think the article is much better following the review and your suggestions for improvement.
Libertybison (
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16:13, 27 May 2017 (UTC)reply
Hello everyone, thanks for trying to promote the article to GA in my absence. I will look into the remaining issue to see if we could try again. -
DonCalo (
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22:56, 5 September 2017 (UTC)reply