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The last threee paragraphs of this article has no place on Wikipedia. It's a juvenile I've-just-discovered-Chomsly-and-I-hate-the-West-now rant. It's written as a polemic, not a encyclopedia entry. It's sad to see Wikipedia get an ideological slant. It makes it less useful and less trustworthy.
I don't think that calling shultz a dove is very accurate given his support for several wars. He may be a dove restricted to certain very specific areas but he appears to be well known for advocating military force. I would vote to REMOVE it, but I'm curious what other people think. I haven't read anything super difinitive about it but it seems that his congressional testimony in 83 was to raise funding for the contras. I think dove should be replaced with 'moderate'
I think parts of the article are a little unclear because shultz was opposed to "arms for hostages" but was totally in favor of using the contras in south america.
There are some other shultz pieces from the 80s that I would like to find an online link to "Moral Principles and Strategic Interests," April 14, 1986 (State Department, Current Policy No. 820) "Terrorism: The Challenge to the Democracies," June 24, 1984 (State Dept. Current Policy No. 589) "Terrorism and the Modern World," Oct. 25, 1984 (State Department Current Policy No. 629) user:TitaniumDreads
Definitely not a "dove." This portion of the article is very very misleading to say the least. The article should also point out that affirmative action was first put in place by Shultz when Sec. of Labor during the early years of the Nixon administration.
What is the rationale for removing this article from Category:Cold War people? -- HK 15:05, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
Willmcw has reverted this formulation: "It was during this period that Schultz, along with Paul Volcker and Arthur Burns, was chiefly responsible for the decision of the Nixon administration to end the gold standard and the Bretton Woods system. [1]"
...substituting this one: "It was during this period that Schultz, along with Paul Volcker and Arthur Burns, supported the decision of the Nixon administration to end the gold standard and the Bretton Woods system. [2]"
The assertion that Schultz et al were chiefly responsible is not contingent upon the cited source. It comes with the job description, i.e., Secretary of the Treasury. The decision to end the Bretton Woods system fell within his bailwick. -- HK 21:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
The article appears to be oddly structured for an encyclopedia entry. It starts with Mr. Schulz's "Background" then after a brief description of his activities as Secreatary of State jumps to his "Retirement"; as if the writer were suggesting that the most significant part of his career has somehow occured in retirement as opposed to his decades long service to three different administrations. Anyone reading this article would have certain expectations that are placed there by the writer; something needs to be inserted between "Background" and "Retirement". Otherwise I would have to say that the writer had not made an honest attempt to flesh out this prominent individual in our history.
_____________________________________________________
I agree with the above. The article needs a lot of work. Secretary Shultz served in the Marine Corps not Navy...this is a HUGE mistake if you ask any Marine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.212.108.154 ( talk) 22:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
The biography section said, "He opposed the U.S. aid to the Sandinistas which led to the Iran–Contra affair." This is completely wrong. The Reagan Administration never armed the FSLN but rather the rebels who were trying to overthrow them. I made the change.
or you believe he is too paranoid to fill any responsability correctly. or you feel there is too much between chinese military and neo-cons to be a real threat, only a fake war so people don't try to declare a new one.
The Neocons are a group of liberals who crossed the aisle following the cultural/political wars of the 1960s and 1970s, particularly associated with proteges of senator Scoop Jackson. (see our article on Neoconservatism). Shultz has been a conservative economist and a strong proponent of a robust foreign policy since before the neoconservative movement was more than a misgiving in its founders' eyes. If the term is to have any meaning other than an epithet for "people associated with George W Bush" (also not a neocon), then it doesn't belong here. I'm removing the category and making changes associated with the meaning of the term. RayAYang ( talk) 18:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
How can someone obtain a PhD without having a master degreee before?-- 85.179.110.128 ( talk) 22:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
In July 2010, PBS broadcast the three-part series, "Turmoil and Triumph: The George Shultz Years," which raised various issues as discussed at:
http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/2010/07/turmoil_over_turmoil.html
The "Afterward" at the end of the last hour made the glaring omission of the fact that Shultz played such a central role among the establishment Republicans who handpicked George W. Bush as their 2000 presidential candidate.
On 25 February 2011, I added the following in the Later Life section, but it was reduced to one sentence by Fat&Happy. In my opinion, this was unwarranted:
George P. Shultz played a central role among establishment Republicans in supporting Bush as their 2000 presidential candidate. On October 12, 2004, 9-11 PM EDT, the PBS Frontline program "The Choice 2004" examined the presidential candidates Bush and John F. Kerry. One of the fascinating revelations was made by Shultz. In April 1998, while Bush was visiting California, Shultz asked him: Why don't you come over to my house, and I'll gather the usual suspects to discuss policy issues. Schultz and the others were so impressed by Bush that they urged him to run for president because, as Shultz said: It seems to me that you have a good seat-of-the-pants for it. According to the program's narrator: By the end of 1998, the money was rolling in. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/
1998 April: Bush travels to Palo Alto, Calif., and the Hoover institution, a conservative think tank at Stanford University. While in California, he is invited by George Shultz to a meeting at Shultz's home to talk with various policy experts, including Michael Boskin, John Taylor and Condoleeza Rice. They are looking for a presidential candidate for 2000 with good political instincts -- someone they can work with. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/bush/cron.html
If I remember correctly, more than $70 million had been raised by the time W announced his candidacy. It is high time that Shultz and the establishment Republicans be held accountable for their disastrous selection. Italus ( talk) 02:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is there a "common assumption" that Shultz is "a member of the Pratt family associated with John D. Rockefeller ". Pratt and Shultz are not the same name! 203.184.41.226 ( talk) 22:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
The entry lacks a section concerning the controversies and questionable stances taken by Schultz both in and out of office. The entry is too hagiographic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.137.35.130 ( talk) 10:24, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
尖閣の問題について、朝日新聞(Asahi)で発言したことは、事実誤認があります。インタビュアーの朝日記者が、「日本は尖閣問題で中国の強硬姿勢に苦しんでいます」と発言したところ、「日本が尖閣を国有化したことで、中国は公船を派遣するようになった」と言っています。しかし実際は、中国が尖閣に最初に公船派遣と領海侵犯をしたのは2008年12月です。2012年9月には漁船衝突事件が起き、それ以降中国は毎月の頻度に公船派遣を恒常化させました。日本が尖閣を国有化したのはその2年後の2012年9月です。シュルツ氏の発言は事実誤認であり、今も朝日新聞では訂正記事が書かれていません。ここにその事実を記します。-- 110.66.55.130 ( talk) 06:16, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
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Lyndon LaRouche seems to be a person with very strong opinions on some issues and persons. If this article wants to describe criticism of Shultz, I think it should be described in more general and neutral terms and include not only LaRouche but also other people criticising Shultz. -- Coffee leaf ( talk) 19:05, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
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The Latin America section is confusing in two ways. First, because it discusses things out of sequence: the Iran–Contra affair started August 20, 1985, but after mentioning that event it jumps back to 1983. Second, someone who was strongly critical of the Sandinista government and Daniel Ortega might be expected to be more likely to support undermining it, and there's no text involving "however", "even though", "in spite of", or any similar expression that helps the reader with the contrast. I would have expected this section to be along the lines of "He strongly opposed the Sandinista government and said in 1983 ... However, he also was well known for outspoken opposition to the 'arms for hostages' scandal that ..." — Anomalocaris ( talk) 21:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
As of 2019-10-31 this article said, "Along with Elliot Richardson, he is one of two individuals to serve in four different Cabinet positions." However, this article currently only lists three.
I've changed that number to three. If you think it's four, please document the fourth. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 01:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
@ Arado Ar 196: Between 2022-07-19T07:26:51 and ...T08:02:12 User:76.71.176.207 made 5 questionable edits. User:Arado Ar 196 reverted the first 3, saying, "Non-constructive edit". I checked the source for a comment that Arado Ar 196 reverted and concluded that User:Arado Ar 196 was correct in doing so: I wondered if the deletion in question might have been an attempt to discredit Shultz for his support of Theranos.
With the most recent 2 edits, User:76.71.176.207 inserted the following at the beginning of the lede: George Pratt Shultz ( /ʃʊlts/; December 13, 1920 – February 6, 2021) was
First, this does not belong in the lede: Shultz is famous for many things, and the Theranos affair was a relatively minor issue in a long and distinguished career.
Second, the comment may belong later. However, I have no access to that book and do not feel a need to pursue this further.
Thanks to User:Arado Ar 196 for the earlier reversion. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:40, 19 July 2022 (UTC) DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:40, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Need to include the role in the Theranos scandal in the summary. His role helped legitimize a con job of 700 million. It is as significant as everything else he has done and speaks to his reputation! 107.201.60.83 ( talk) 21:14, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
the accusation that a grandson had anything to disclose as a " whistle blower" is libelous, slanderous, and patently falsely. Those accusations were just that, and long ago proven unfounded . 2600:100F:B1B7:EBA9:9447:65FF:FE81:E30A ( talk) 01:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
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George Shultz article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A news item involving George Shultz was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 9 February 2021. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The last threee paragraphs of this article has no place on Wikipedia. It's a juvenile I've-just-discovered-Chomsly-and-I-hate-the-West-now rant. It's written as a polemic, not a encyclopedia entry. It's sad to see Wikipedia get an ideological slant. It makes it less useful and less trustworthy.
I don't think that calling shultz a dove is very accurate given his support for several wars. He may be a dove restricted to certain very specific areas but he appears to be well known for advocating military force. I would vote to REMOVE it, but I'm curious what other people think. I haven't read anything super difinitive about it but it seems that his congressional testimony in 83 was to raise funding for the contras. I think dove should be replaced with 'moderate'
I think parts of the article are a little unclear because shultz was opposed to "arms for hostages" but was totally in favor of using the contras in south america.
There are some other shultz pieces from the 80s that I would like to find an online link to "Moral Principles and Strategic Interests," April 14, 1986 (State Department, Current Policy No. 820) "Terrorism: The Challenge to the Democracies," June 24, 1984 (State Dept. Current Policy No. 589) "Terrorism and the Modern World," Oct. 25, 1984 (State Department Current Policy No. 629) user:TitaniumDreads
Definitely not a "dove." This portion of the article is very very misleading to say the least. The article should also point out that affirmative action was first put in place by Shultz when Sec. of Labor during the early years of the Nixon administration.
What is the rationale for removing this article from Category:Cold War people? -- HK 15:05, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
Willmcw has reverted this formulation: "It was during this period that Schultz, along with Paul Volcker and Arthur Burns, was chiefly responsible for the decision of the Nixon administration to end the gold standard and the Bretton Woods system. [1]"
...substituting this one: "It was during this period that Schultz, along with Paul Volcker and Arthur Burns, supported the decision of the Nixon administration to end the gold standard and the Bretton Woods system. [2]"
The assertion that Schultz et al were chiefly responsible is not contingent upon the cited source. It comes with the job description, i.e., Secretary of the Treasury. The decision to end the Bretton Woods system fell within his bailwick. -- HK 21:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
The article appears to be oddly structured for an encyclopedia entry. It starts with Mr. Schulz's "Background" then after a brief description of his activities as Secreatary of State jumps to his "Retirement"; as if the writer were suggesting that the most significant part of his career has somehow occured in retirement as opposed to his decades long service to three different administrations. Anyone reading this article would have certain expectations that are placed there by the writer; something needs to be inserted between "Background" and "Retirement". Otherwise I would have to say that the writer had not made an honest attempt to flesh out this prominent individual in our history.
_____________________________________________________
I agree with the above. The article needs a lot of work. Secretary Shultz served in the Marine Corps not Navy...this is a HUGE mistake if you ask any Marine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.212.108.154 ( talk) 22:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
The biography section said, "He opposed the U.S. aid to the Sandinistas which led to the Iran–Contra affair." This is completely wrong. The Reagan Administration never armed the FSLN but rather the rebels who were trying to overthrow them. I made the change.
or you believe he is too paranoid to fill any responsability correctly. or you feel there is too much between chinese military and neo-cons to be a real threat, only a fake war so people don't try to declare a new one.
The Neocons are a group of liberals who crossed the aisle following the cultural/political wars of the 1960s and 1970s, particularly associated with proteges of senator Scoop Jackson. (see our article on Neoconservatism). Shultz has been a conservative economist and a strong proponent of a robust foreign policy since before the neoconservative movement was more than a misgiving in its founders' eyes. If the term is to have any meaning other than an epithet for "people associated with George W Bush" (also not a neocon), then it doesn't belong here. I'm removing the category and making changes associated with the meaning of the term. RayAYang ( talk) 18:08, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
How can someone obtain a PhD without having a master degreee before?-- 85.179.110.128 ( talk) 22:53, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
In July 2010, PBS broadcast the three-part series, "Turmoil and Triumph: The George Shultz Years," which raised various issues as discussed at:
http://www.pbs.org/ombudsman/2010/07/turmoil_over_turmoil.html
The "Afterward" at the end of the last hour made the glaring omission of the fact that Shultz played such a central role among the establishment Republicans who handpicked George W. Bush as their 2000 presidential candidate.
On 25 February 2011, I added the following in the Later Life section, but it was reduced to one sentence by Fat&Happy. In my opinion, this was unwarranted:
George P. Shultz played a central role among establishment Republicans in supporting Bush as their 2000 presidential candidate. On October 12, 2004, 9-11 PM EDT, the PBS Frontline program "The Choice 2004" examined the presidential candidates Bush and John F. Kerry. One of the fascinating revelations was made by Shultz. In April 1998, while Bush was visiting California, Shultz asked him: Why don't you come over to my house, and I'll gather the usual suspects to discuss policy issues. Schultz and the others were so impressed by Bush that they urged him to run for president because, as Shultz said: It seems to me that you have a good seat-of-the-pants for it. According to the program's narrator: By the end of 1998, the money was rolling in. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/
1998 April: Bush travels to Palo Alto, Calif., and the Hoover institution, a conservative think tank at Stanford University. While in California, he is invited by George Shultz to a meeting at Shultz's home to talk with various policy experts, including Michael Boskin, John Taylor and Condoleeza Rice. They are looking for a presidential candidate for 2000 with good political instincts -- someone they can work with. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/bush/cron.html
If I remember correctly, more than $70 million had been raised by the time W announced his candidacy. It is high time that Shultz and the establishment Republicans be held accountable for their disastrous selection. Italus ( talk) 02:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is there a "common assumption" that Shultz is "a member of the Pratt family associated with John D. Rockefeller ". Pratt and Shultz are not the same name! 203.184.41.226 ( talk) 22:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
The entry lacks a section concerning the controversies and questionable stances taken by Schultz both in and out of office. The entry is too hagiographic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.137.35.130 ( talk) 10:24, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
尖閣の問題について、朝日新聞(Asahi)で発言したことは、事実誤認があります。インタビュアーの朝日記者が、「日本は尖閣問題で中国の強硬姿勢に苦しんでいます」と発言したところ、「日本が尖閣を国有化したことで、中国は公船を派遣するようになった」と言っています。しかし実際は、中国が尖閣に最初に公船派遣と領海侵犯をしたのは2008年12月です。2012年9月には漁船衝突事件が起き、それ以降中国は毎月の頻度に公船派遣を恒常化させました。日本が尖閣を国有化したのはその2年後の2012年9月です。シュルツ氏の発言は事実誤認であり、今も朝日新聞では訂正記事が書かれていません。ここにその事実を記します。-- 110.66.55.130 ( talk) 06:16, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
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Lyndon LaRouche seems to be a person with very strong opinions on some issues and persons. If this article wants to describe criticism of Shultz, I think it should be described in more general and neutral terms and include not only LaRouche but also other people criticising Shultz. -- Coffee leaf ( talk) 19:05, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
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I have just modified 4 external links on George P. Shultz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The Latin America section is confusing in two ways. First, because it discusses things out of sequence: the Iran–Contra affair started August 20, 1985, but after mentioning that event it jumps back to 1983. Second, someone who was strongly critical of the Sandinista government and Daniel Ortega might be expected to be more likely to support undermining it, and there's no text involving "however", "even though", "in spite of", or any similar expression that helps the reader with the contrast. I would have expected this section to be along the lines of "He strongly opposed the Sandinista government and said in 1983 ... However, he also was well known for outspoken opposition to the 'arms for hostages' scandal that ..." — Anomalocaris ( talk) 21:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
As of 2019-10-31 this article said, "Along with Elliot Richardson, he is one of two individuals to serve in four different Cabinet positions." However, this article currently only lists three.
I've changed that number to three. If you think it's four, please document the fourth. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 01:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
@ Arado Ar 196: Between 2022-07-19T07:26:51 and ...T08:02:12 User:76.71.176.207 made 5 questionable edits. User:Arado Ar 196 reverted the first 3, saying, "Non-constructive edit". I checked the source for a comment that Arado Ar 196 reverted and concluded that User:Arado Ar 196 was correct in doing so: I wondered if the deletion in question might have been an attempt to discredit Shultz for his support of Theranos.
With the most recent 2 edits, User:76.71.176.207 inserted the following at the beginning of the lede: George Pratt Shultz ( /ʃʊlts/; December 13, 1920 – February 6, 2021) was
First, this does not belong in the lede: Shultz is famous for many things, and the Theranos affair was a relatively minor issue in a long and distinguished career.
Second, the comment may belong later. However, I have no access to that book and do not feel a need to pursue this further.
Thanks to User:Arado Ar 196 for the earlier reversion. DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:40, 19 July 2022 (UTC) DavidMCEddy ( talk) 14:40, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
References
Need to include the role in the Theranos scandal in the summary. His role helped legitimize a con job of 700 million. It is as significant as everything else he has done and speaks to his reputation! 107.201.60.83 ( talk) 21:14, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
the accusation that a grandson had anything to disclose as a " whistle blower" is libelous, slanderous, and patently falsely. Those accusations were just that, and long ago proven unfounded . 2600:100F:B1B7:EBA9:9447:65FF:FE81:E30A ( talk) 01:20, 28 July 2023 (UTC)