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I had added
It was removed for being POV and without external references. I totally understand the need for external references but POV? It's a criticism section and almost by definition has to be POV. I don't want to do a bunch of research for external references if its just going to be deleted because someone doesn't agree with it. Can someone clarify? -- Lawyer2b 16:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
This article seems to have been written from someone with a rather odd take on Lakoff. I'm removing a number of passeges that do more harm than good, in addition to doing some reorganizing and rephrasing. A coherent explanation of Lakoff's actual ideas is needed, but I decided I couldn't attempt that before doing some housecleaning.
Here are some things removed:
Removed. Well known to whom? Although Lakoff may be a relativist in certain senses, I don't think Lakoff is an avid critic of the scientific process; without that process, his work is basically meaningless. And what does this have to do with developed vs non-developed countries?
Removed. First, I don't think Núñez and Lakoff are alone in advocating an " embodied mind thesis". Second, that quote is ok, but it would be much better if it said what book it was from. Finally, I'm not sure this is worth presenting in such a brief, sound-bite form.
This is incoherent. Falsifiability of what? Also, don't mention "particle physics" without explaining the connection; I feel this has been inserted only to add credibility to a weak argument.
Fine, but redundant.
Oops. I wrote that. It was only referring to Moral Politics, and should have been moved to its article.
Who? I don't see any obvious connections between Lakoff and the anti-globalization folks. Also, I'm curious: assuming there actually are such people inspired by Lakoff, do they actually have a clue what he is talking about?
I wrote that. I'd say it's true, but it doesn't fit with the current organization of the article, and it's kind of useless if it isn't fleshed out further.
-- Ryguasu 23:10 Nov 22, 2002 (UTC)
Yup, still fighting against the mess that 24 created. Amazing how much damage can be done by a single individual. AxelBoldt 04:00 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
Changed the "Trivia" section which made Robin Lakoff sound trivial. -- Dante Alighieri
I don't have any opinions about Robin Lakoff; I just thought it was kind of silly to be talking about husbands and wives of any sort in the introductory paragraph. Sorry. By the way, are you sure Robin and George are married? The dedication from my Where Mathematics Comes From says his wife is named Kathleen Frumkin. -- Ryguasu 09:54 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
Well slap me silly... I guess I've been wrong all these years. :( Must be a coincidence then. I'm removing the link about Robin Lakoff from the George Lakoff page. And don't worry, I didn't think you were intentionally trivializing it, I just thought it was a less than ideal choice of words. :) -- Dante Alighieri
Perhaps other people have made the same mistake; the situation certainly sounds plausible. In that case, it might make sense to put back the "trivia" section, and include the fact about who he isn't married to. =) Or maybe that is getting a bit too far afield for an encyclopedia.... -- Ryguasu 10:01 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
I agree, that's a bit far afield... I must say, though, that I feel ESPECIALLY stupid seeing as how I attended UC Berkeley and took several courses in the Linguistics department. Sigh. -- Dante Alighieri
I'm trying to assess how idiosyncratic an understanding of Lakoff and Johnson's first book feminist Julie Nelson has. It's a little hard for me to check, since I don't have the book. The passage in question is:
This seems to suggest that, somewhere in their book, Lakoff and Johnson argue for one monolithic concept called "up-in-center-control-rational", and another monolithic concept called "down-out-periphery-submission-emotional", which seems not entirely plausible given my understanding of these guys. Certainly they talk about up vs. down and how this connects metaphorically to other domains (e.g. more vs. less, better vs. worse). But do they discuss these more monolithic concepts as well? -- Ryguasu 23:40 Jan 22, 2003 (UTC)
There is a difference between saying that
and saying that
Saying #1 does not automatically rule out #2. Some people may have suggested that it might be possible to understand human-like minds as a general phenomenon by making AI with human-like mental abilities, but it is not clear to me that even this claim need be rejected by someone who is a mind-brain monist.
Does anyone have a source that illustrates rejection of a version of strong AI by Lakoff? JWSchmidt 04:20, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
<quote> ...embodiment is a rejection not only of dualism vis-a-vis mind and matter, but also of claims that human reason can be basically understood without reference to the underlying "implementation details". (Thus Lakoff would strongly reject a number of formulations of the Strong AI position.) </quote>
I think that parenthetical statement may be a non-sequitur. I don't know whether Lakoff does or does not reject these formulations, and I'm not arguing here about his views, but neither does the parenthetical statement. It is saying that a consequence of holding the embodied mind view would be to reject a number of the formulations of the strong AI position. While it's not clear exactly which formulations are meant, I do not believe that the emobided mind view should cause us in any way to reject the Strong AI position. Strong AI does not have to mean creating intelligence in exactly the same way that humans have it. And if it did have this as its goal, wouldn't the embodied mind argue against it? No, it wouldn't, for there is no reason why we couldn't also implement those "implementation details" as part of our computational model.
I think the "his book isn't unique" thesis is a bit strongly presented here and not terribly correct. Lakoff's analysis of language and framing goes a bit beyond what Orwell had in mind (and Orwell was not exactly the first person to argue that language determined quite a lot of thought, I am fairly sure) and is quite different from an Orwellian take in many respects (Orwell's position seems to be to have been that language can be used to frame things, Lakoff's is that language is always used to frame things). Jane Jacob's "guardian moral syndrome" and "commercial moral syndrome" looks only superficially like the sort of thing that Lakoff argues in Moral Politics, which is about metaphor analysis. To say that Lakoff is just derivative/duplicative of these works is incorrect and POV at the very least -- you can of course read similarities into all sorts of works (Thomas Kuhn's idea of a paradigm, Foucault's idea of the episteme, etc. etc.) if you want to. Here is seems to serve the point of trying to criticize Lakoff in a not very NPOV way. If these are specific criticisms which have been put forth by prominent critics, then they should be attributed to those critics. Otherwise they should be deleted, if they are just the opinion of a Wikipedia editor. -- Fastfission 01:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does this relate to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis? 41.243.103.178 21:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure his name is pronounced "Lay-koff". I say this as someone who has taken a class from him, know a number of his close friends, and once organized a talk by him. I've never heard anybody pronounce it otherwise. Any reason to suspect I'm wrong on this? (It would be somewhat mortifying if I was, since I've addressed him as such many times). -- Fastfission 20:05, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
An anon added the paragraph:
Now I consider myself somewhat proficient in Lakoff's version of linguistics, but that paragraph makes so little sense to me that my general suspicion is that it is a parody of academic jargon. If I'm wrong, could somebody please render it into something which can be understood by a nonspecialist (even a highly educated one!)? -- Fastfission 21:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I deleted the italicized phrase from the passage below:
I think the deleted phrase is redundant. There's no real difference between saying "there is a way we could tell" and saying that mathematics involves "certainty." Also, the deleted phrase has an oddly contradictory POV quality to it. First, it states that "one might expect" something; then it "presumes" to deduce that Lakoff's theories "imply" otherwise. Who is the "one" who "might expect" this, and who is "presuming" that Lakoff's theory implies otherwise? -- Sheldon Rampton 13:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
An interesting exercise. If you go back and look at the origins of this article, it is clear that during the past three years almost everything related to the implications of Lakoff's important views on mathematics has been elimianted from the article.
"It is as yet unclear whether philosophers not so mathematically inclined are terribly interested in or bothered by Lakoff." Wikipedia is itself a demonstration that some "philosophers not so mathematically inclined" are so bothered by Lakoff that they have eliminated from Wikipedia almost all discussion of the implications of his ideas about mathematics. Lakoff's position undermines much of traditional Western philosophy of mathematics and has provoked strong reaction. That most "philosophers not so mathematically inclined" remain uninterested in Lakoff's position is because they continue to exist well-insulated within the traditional Platonic world view, unable to even understand any alternative. -- JWSchmidt 15:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I had added
It was removed for being POV and without external references. I totally understand the need for external references but POV? It's a criticism section and almost by definition has to be POV. I don't want to do a bunch of research for external references if its just going to be deleted because someone doesn't agree with it. Can someone clarify? -- Lawyer2b 16:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't a search for 'Lakoff' also come up with Robin Tolmach Lakoff who is also an important linguist?-- 81.202.229.64 10:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Maybe better not until the stub on Robin Lakoff is fixed.-- YellowLeftHand 10:48, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, they used to be married. 219.44.212.66 ( talk) 05:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone appears to think that he is the owner of this article, but he fails to understand the purpose of wikipedia. He removes criticisms of Lakoff so as to keep up an image of a prophet above criticism. In fact, this is a whitewash, hero-worshipping image of George Lakoff. That violates the rule against POV. If he continues to remove the criticism section of the Lakoff article, that could constitute vandalism. For that offense he could lose his wikipedia privileges. Wjkellpro 06:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Just to be clear, the reason why your additions and Progressive logic are original research is that you the author wrote them and they are not from what the official Wikipedia policy on original research terms a " reputable publication". The "Empathic Science Institute" is not a peer-reviewed journal, a known academic publishing house, a university press, or a division of a general publisher which has a good reputation for scholarly publications. From what I can tell from a WHOIS lookup of empathicscience.org and a Google search for "Empathic Science Institute" is that it looks like it is just William J. Kelleher. He personally registered the domain, so the book is basically self-published. Nobody except the author himself refers to the "Empathic Science Institute" on the Internet (perhaps there are offline references, I don't know). This is definitely original research and not allowed on Wikipedia.
It's not that I care to protect Lakoff from legitimate and documented criticisms. I simply want to stop this article from getting any worse, because it is currently not that good, in my opinion. Mike Dillon 07:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Matthew McGlone has an essay in Understanding Figurative Language that sets out a pretty formidable critique of Lakoff's and Turner's approach to metaphor. I don't have the book, and it's been years since I read it; maybe somebody could summarize the argument?-- WadeMcR 18:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In the section on the embodied mind, there is a reference to a work called "The Embodied Mind": "This is what he means when he says, in "The Embodied Mind", that falsifiability itself can never be established by any reasonable method that would not rely ultimately on a shared human bias." What is this work, and shouldn't a full cite be provided somewhere? Does this actually refer to Philosophy in the Flesh (which is already included in the selected bibliography)? Schi 07:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Embodied Mind is by Rosch 1991 (with Francisco Varela and Evan F. Thompson). The Embodied Mind. MIT Press. This hints that whilst Lakoff in "women fire and dangerous things" (and subsequent works) popularised embodied mind ideas, they were not the creation of Lakoff and Nunez as the article states. Perhaps better to say Lakoff played a key role in promoting/extending the embodied mind theory (which according to the New York times is "very popular") Marshaiw ( talk) 15:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
== Rockridge Institute == was closed in April 2010; see below.
Did Lakoff "found" the Rockridge Institute (as per intro) or "become involved" in it (as per later section)? 158.223.71.65 14:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The RockridgeInstitute.org no longer exists, and its archives are no longer available at that website. See any number of sources for this old 'news', such as < http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rockridge_Institute> and/or < http://turningpoints.iomaire.com/index.php/2008/10/27/the-rockridge-institute/> stating that it was closed in April 2010. This second source says:
"Update, October 9, 2010: The Rockridge Institute archives are no longer available from the links in this post. They are now available from the website of the Cognitive Policy Works, a think tank formed by former fellows of the Rockridge Institute. Thank you, Zack Lym, for contacting me and letting me know about this so that I could update this post." Arfiezy ( talk) 15:25, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
I tried to find the 2001 gifford lecture but it is not listed on the Gifford Lecture page. Is there a mistake on this page or the Gifford page? Mysteryrare ( talk) 07:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
This is a general concern I've had for quite awhile now. Any link to any article on The New Republic leads to a 404 error--as is the case with the link to Nunberg's reply to the Pinker-Lakoff debate. Is there any way these links can be recovered? 72.130.89.63 21:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm scratching my head over this paragraph:
I have a strong suspicion that this came from an uneasy compromise after an edit war. In particular, the sentence I've put in bold seems completely out of place in a paragraph that begins with the words "Lakoff argues that..." Does Lakoff argue that "the government should stay out of the business of those in society who have proved their responsibility?" Does this description match his original writing? If not, then shouldn't the above sentence perhaps be moved to a separate "criticism" section?
I'll wait for feedback, but if there is none then I might just cut that sentence. Kazim27 ( talk) 22:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Lakoffs strict father type appears to be modeled on the Authoritarian Personality as described by Theodor W. Adorno, who, btw, also worked at Berkeley 85.242.253.238 ( talk) 14:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed the claim that Chomsky was Lakoff's supervisor at MIT. I forget who his supervisor was, but Lakoff did his PhD at Indiana University. Here are a few citations:
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/people/person_detail.php?person=21 http://www.genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=102657 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.68.16 ( talk) 12:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
George was an undergrad at MIT, and wanted to do a Ph.D. at MIT, but he (as he recouinted to me in an unpublished interview) overheard Chomsky saying to someone "I don't want that guy here". His career as Chomsky's arch-nemesis apparently stemmed from that (he obviously didn't say that. I'm speculating. But if he had been the same pain in the butt before that he was after, he wouldn't have rationally bothered to apply to get into MIT). His supervisor at Indian was Fred Householder, if memory serves (haven't talk to George since 1976). 219.44.212.66 ( talk) 05:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
In all sections of the article are some quatations lacking reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.163.51.160 ( talk) 16:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. Almost no mention of the book for which Lakoff is most famous for, Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things. I just finished this book and it cites his core linguistic theories and how he was originally inspired by the original work of anthropologist Eleanor Rosch. Seeing how this article talks extensively about Lakoff's linguistics theories, I find the omission in the main body of the text of Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things and of Rosch's contributions to his theories as curious. Perhaps it is because this book is now considered dated? (It was published in 1986.) Am I to assume that Lakoff has moved on in a different direction? If so why is his book still widely available? This book can be found at almost any nationwide bookstore chain in the philosophy or linguistics section. Anyone care to comment? Aletheia ( talk) 17:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I've moved this sentence, from the article to here:
Geoffrey Nunberg, linguist, UC Berkeley professor and author of Talking Right, weighed in on Lakoff vs Pinker in a post on The New Republic's web site. [1]
It was a paragraph, on it's own. It says nothing. Was Nunberg for or against Lakoff? If he added something new, what was it? I should have just deleted it, but it's a good example of useless text.
Maybe there's something useful that could be said about Nunberg's article (I don't know, I've never heard of this guy or read anything by him), but nothing in the removed sentence gives any substantial information about the topic of this article (George Lakoff). Gronky ( talk) 22:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no mention of Lakoff's first book in the list of writings. Should it be added?
The link to Embodied Philosophy leads to Embodied Cognition. Is the naming intentional or should it be corrected? Wikikrax ( talk) 10:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
She's mentioned in both the infobox here and the one in Robin Lakoff, but only the latter article mentions her marriage to George in the text; this seems to be because her article has a biography section and George's does not. Shouldn't this be fixed? I'd do it but I'm not sure how. Also, the wikiproject tags disagree on whether this is start-class or C-class -- which is it? ekips39 ❀talk 16:21, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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I had added
It was removed for being POV and without external references. I totally understand the need for external references but POV? It's a criticism section and almost by definition has to be POV. I don't want to do a bunch of research for external references if its just going to be deleted because someone doesn't agree with it. Can someone clarify? -- Lawyer2b 16:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
This article seems to have been written from someone with a rather odd take on Lakoff. I'm removing a number of passeges that do more harm than good, in addition to doing some reorganizing and rephrasing. A coherent explanation of Lakoff's actual ideas is needed, but I decided I couldn't attempt that before doing some housecleaning.
Here are some things removed:
Removed. Well known to whom? Although Lakoff may be a relativist in certain senses, I don't think Lakoff is an avid critic of the scientific process; without that process, his work is basically meaningless. And what does this have to do with developed vs non-developed countries?
Removed. First, I don't think Núñez and Lakoff are alone in advocating an " embodied mind thesis". Second, that quote is ok, but it would be much better if it said what book it was from. Finally, I'm not sure this is worth presenting in such a brief, sound-bite form.
This is incoherent. Falsifiability of what? Also, don't mention "particle physics" without explaining the connection; I feel this has been inserted only to add credibility to a weak argument.
Fine, but redundant.
Oops. I wrote that. It was only referring to Moral Politics, and should have been moved to its article.
Who? I don't see any obvious connections between Lakoff and the anti-globalization folks. Also, I'm curious: assuming there actually are such people inspired by Lakoff, do they actually have a clue what he is talking about?
I wrote that. I'd say it's true, but it doesn't fit with the current organization of the article, and it's kind of useless if it isn't fleshed out further.
-- Ryguasu 23:10 Nov 22, 2002 (UTC)
Yup, still fighting against the mess that 24 created. Amazing how much damage can be done by a single individual. AxelBoldt 04:00 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
Changed the "Trivia" section which made Robin Lakoff sound trivial. -- Dante Alighieri
I don't have any opinions about Robin Lakoff; I just thought it was kind of silly to be talking about husbands and wives of any sort in the introductory paragraph. Sorry. By the way, are you sure Robin and George are married? The dedication from my Where Mathematics Comes From says his wife is named Kathleen Frumkin. -- Ryguasu 09:54 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
Well slap me silly... I guess I've been wrong all these years. :( Must be a coincidence then. I'm removing the link about Robin Lakoff from the George Lakoff page. And don't worry, I didn't think you were intentionally trivializing it, I just thought it was a less than ideal choice of words. :) -- Dante Alighieri
Perhaps other people have made the same mistake; the situation certainly sounds plausible. In that case, it might make sense to put back the "trivia" section, and include the fact about who he isn't married to. =) Or maybe that is getting a bit too far afield for an encyclopedia.... -- Ryguasu 10:01 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)
I agree, that's a bit far afield... I must say, though, that I feel ESPECIALLY stupid seeing as how I attended UC Berkeley and took several courses in the Linguistics department. Sigh. -- Dante Alighieri
I'm trying to assess how idiosyncratic an understanding of Lakoff and Johnson's first book feminist Julie Nelson has. It's a little hard for me to check, since I don't have the book. The passage in question is:
This seems to suggest that, somewhere in their book, Lakoff and Johnson argue for one monolithic concept called "up-in-center-control-rational", and another monolithic concept called "down-out-periphery-submission-emotional", which seems not entirely plausible given my understanding of these guys. Certainly they talk about up vs. down and how this connects metaphorically to other domains (e.g. more vs. less, better vs. worse). But do they discuss these more monolithic concepts as well? -- Ryguasu 23:40 Jan 22, 2003 (UTC)
There is a difference between saying that
and saying that
Saying #1 does not automatically rule out #2. Some people may have suggested that it might be possible to understand human-like minds as a general phenomenon by making AI with human-like mental abilities, but it is not clear to me that even this claim need be rejected by someone who is a mind-brain monist.
Does anyone have a source that illustrates rejection of a version of strong AI by Lakoff? JWSchmidt 04:20, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)
<quote> ...embodiment is a rejection not only of dualism vis-a-vis mind and matter, but also of claims that human reason can be basically understood without reference to the underlying "implementation details". (Thus Lakoff would strongly reject a number of formulations of the Strong AI position.) </quote>
I think that parenthetical statement may be a non-sequitur. I don't know whether Lakoff does or does not reject these formulations, and I'm not arguing here about his views, but neither does the parenthetical statement. It is saying that a consequence of holding the embodied mind view would be to reject a number of the formulations of the strong AI position. While it's not clear exactly which formulations are meant, I do not believe that the emobided mind view should cause us in any way to reject the Strong AI position. Strong AI does not have to mean creating intelligence in exactly the same way that humans have it. And if it did have this as its goal, wouldn't the embodied mind argue against it? No, it wouldn't, for there is no reason why we couldn't also implement those "implementation details" as part of our computational model.
I think the "his book isn't unique" thesis is a bit strongly presented here and not terribly correct. Lakoff's analysis of language and framing goes a bit beyond what Orwell had in mind (and Orwell was not exactly the first person to argue that language determined quite a lot of thought, I am fairly sure) and is quite different from an Orwellian take in many respects (Orwell's position seems to be to have been that language can be used to frame things, Lakoff's is that language is always used to frame things). Jane Jacob's "guardian moral syndrome" and "commercial moral syndrome" looks only superficially like the sort of thing that Lakoff argues in Moral Politics, which is about metaphor analysis. To say that Lakoff is just derivative/duplicative of these works is incorrect and POV at the very least -- you can of course read similarities into all sorts of works (Thomas Kuhn's idea of a paradigm, Foucault's idea of the episteme, etc. etc.) if you want to. Here is seems to serve the point of trying to criticize Lakoff in a not very NPOV way. If these are specific criticisms which have been put forth by prominent critics, then they should be attributed to those critics. Otherwise they should be deleted, if they are just the opinion of a Wikipedia editor. -- Fastfission 01:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does this relate to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis? 41.243.103.178 21:57, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure his name is pronounced "Lay-koff". I say this as someone who has taken a class from him, know a number of his close friends, and once organized a talk by him. I've never heard anybody pronounce it otherwise. Any reason to suspect I'm wrong on this? (It would be somewhat mortifying if I was, since I've addressed him as such many times). -- Fastfission 20:05, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
An anon added the paragraph:
Now I consider myself somewhat proficient in Lakoff's version of linguistics, but that paragraph makes so little sense to me that my general suspicion is that it is a parody of academic jargon. If I'm wrong, could somebody please render it into something which can be understood by a nonspecialist (even a highly educated one!)? -- Fastfission 21:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I deleted the italicized phrase from the passage below:
I think the deleted phrase is redundant. There's no real difference between saying "there is a way we could tell" and saying that mathematics involves "certainty." Also, the deleted phrase has an oddly contradictory POV quality to it. First, it states that "one might expect" something; then it "presumes" to deduce that Lakoff's theories "imply" otherwise. Who is the "one" who "might expect" this, and who is "presuming" that Lakoff's theory implies otherwise? -- Sheldon Rampton 13:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
An interesting exercise. If you go back and look at the origins of this article, it is clear that during the past three years almost everything related to the implications of Lakoff's important views on mathematics has been elimianted from the article.
"It is as yet unclear whether philosophers not so mathematically inclined are terribly interested in or bothered by Lakoff." Wikipedia is itself a demonstration that some "philosophers not so mathematically inclined" are so bothered by Lakoff that they have eliminated from Wikipedia almost all discussion of the implications of his ideas about mathematics. Lakoff's position undermines much of traditional Western philosophy of mathematics and has provoked strong reaction. That most "philosophers not so mathematically inclined" remain uninterested in Lakoff's position is because they continue to exist well-insulated within the traditional Platonic world view, unable to even understand any alternative. -- JWSchmidt 15:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I had added
It was removed for being POV and without external references. I totally understand the need for external references but POV? It's a criticism section and almost by definition has to be POV. I don't want to do a bunch of research for external references if its just going to be deleted because someone doesn't agree with it. Can someone clarify? -- Lawyer2b 16:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't a search for 'Lakoff' also come up with Robin Tolmach Lakoff who is also an important linguist?-- 81.202.229.64 10:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Maybe better not until the stub on Robin Lakoff is fixed.-- YellowLeftHand 10:48, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, they used to be married. 219.44.212.66 ( talk) 05:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone appears to think that he is the owner of this article, but he fails to understand the purpose of wikipedia. He removes criticisms of Lakoff so as to keep up an image of a prophet above criticism. In fact, this is a whitewash, hero-worshipping image of George Lakoff. That violates the rule against POV. If he continues to remove the criticism section of the Lakoff article, that could constitute vandalism. For that offense he could lose his wikipedia privileges. Wjkellpro 06:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Just to be clear, the reason why your additions and Progressive logic are original research is that you the author wrote them and they are not from what the official Wikipedia policy on original research terms a " reputable publication". The "Empathic Science Institute" is not a peer-reviewed journal, a known academic publishing house, a university press, or a division of a general publisher which has a good reputation for scholarly publications. From what I can tell from a WHOIS lookup of empathicscience.org and a Google search for "Empathic Science Institute" is that it looks like it is just William J. Kelleher. He personally registered the domain, so the book is basically self-published. Nobody except the author himself refers to the "Empathic Science Institute" on the Internet (perhaps there are offline references, I don't know). This is definitely original research and not allowed on Wikipedia.
It's not that I care to protect Lakoff from legitimate and documented criticisms. I simply want to stop this article from getting any worse, because it is currently not that good, in my opinion. Mike Dillon 07:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Matthew McGlone has an essay in Understanding Figurative Language that sets out a pretty formidable critique of Lakoff's and Turner's approach to metaphor. I don't have the book, and it's been years since I read it; maybe somebody could summarize the argument?-- WadeMcR 18:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In the section on the embodied mind, there is a reference to a work called "The Embodied Mind": "This is what he means when he says, in "The Embodied Mind", that falsifiability itself can never be established by any reasonable method that would not rely ultimately on a shared human bias." What is this work, and shouldn't a full cite be provided somewhere? Does this actually refer to Philosophy in the Flesh (which is already included in the selected bibliography)? Schi 07:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Embodied Mind is by Rosch 1991 (with Francisco Varela and Evan F. Thompson). The Embodied Mind. MIT Press. This hints that whilst Lakoff in "women fire and dangerous things" (and subsequent works) popularised embodied mind ideas, they were not the creation of Lakoff and Nunez as the article states. Perhaps better to say Lakoff played a key role in promoting/extending the embodied mind theory (which according to the New York times is "very popular") Marshaiw ( talk) 15:49, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
== Rockridge Institute == was closed in April 2010; see below.
Did Lakoff "found" the Rockridge Institute (as per intro) or "become involved" in it (as per later section)? 158.223.71.65 14:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The RockridgeInstitute.org no longer exists, and its archives are no longer available at that website. See any number of sources for this old 'news', such as < http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rockridge_Institute> and/or < http://turningpoints.iomaire.com/index.php/2008/10/27/the-rockridge-institute/> stating that it was closed in April 2010. This second source says:
"Update, October 9, 2010: The Rockridge Institute archives are no longer available from the links in this post. They are now available from the website of the Cognitive Policy Works, a think tank formed by former fellows of the Rockridge Institute. Thank you, Zack Lym, for contacting me and letting me know about this so that I could update this post." Arfiezy ( talk) 15:25, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
I tried to find the 2001 gifford lecture but it is not listed on the Gifford Lecture page. Is there a mistake on this page or the Gifford page? Mysteryrare ( talk) 07:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
This is a general concern I've had for quite awhile now. Any link to any article on The New Republic leads to a 404 error--as is the case with the link to Nunberg's reply to the Pinker-Lakoff debate. Is there any way these links can be recovered? 72.130.89.63 21:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm scratching my head over this paragraph:
I have a strong suspicion that this came from an uneasy compromise after an edit war. In particular, the sentence I've put in bold seems completely out of place in a paragraph that begins with the words "Lakoff argues that..." Does Lakoff argue that "the government should stay out of the business of those in society who have proved their responsibility?" Does this description match his original writing? If not, then shouldn't the above sentence perhaps be moved to a separate "criticism" section?
I'll wait for feedback, but if there is none then I might just cut that sentence. Kazim27 ( talk) 22:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Lakoffs strict father type appears to be modeled on the Authoritarian Personality as described by Theodor W. Adorno, who, btw, also worked at Berkeley 85.242.253.238 ( talk) 14:45, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I removed the claim that Chomsky was Lakoff's supervisor at MIT. I forget who his supervisor was, but Lakoff did his PhD at Indiana University. Here are a few citations:
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/people/person_detail.php?person=21 http://www.genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=102657 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.25.68.16 ( talk) 12:57, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
George was an undergrad at MIT, and wanted to do a Ph.D. at MIT, but he (as he recouinted to me in an unpublished interview) overheard Chomsky saying to someone "I don't want that guy here". His career as Chomsky's arch-nemesis apparently stemmed from that (he obviously didn't say that. I'm speculating. But if he had been the same pain in the butt before that he was after, he wouldn't have rationally bothered to apply to get into MIT). His supervisor at Indian was Fred Householder, if memory serves (haven't talk to George since 1976). 219.44.212.66 ( talk) 05:58, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
In all sections of the article are some quatations lacking reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.163.51.160 ( talk) 16:50, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. Almost no mention of the book for which Lakoff is most famous for, Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things. I just finished this book and it cites his core linguistic theories and how he was originally inspired by the original work of anthropologist Eleanor Rosch. Seeing how this article talks extensively about Lakoff's linguistics theories, I find the omission in the main body of the text of Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things and of Rosch's contributions to his theories as curious. Perhaps it is because this book is now considered dated? (It was published in 1986.) Am I to assume that Lakoff has moved on in a different direction? If so why is his book still widely available? This book can be found at almost any nationwide bookstore chain in the philosophy or linguistics section. Anyone care to comment? Aletheia ( talk) 17:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I've moved this sentence, from the article to here:
Geoffrey Nunberg, linguist, UC Berkeley professor and author of Talking Right, weighed in on Lakoff vs Pinker in a post on The New Republic's web site. [1]
It was a paragraph, on it's own. It says nothing. Was Nunberg for or against Lakoff? If he added something new, what was it? I should have just deleted it, but it's a good example of useless text.
Maybe there's something useful that could be said about Nunberg's article (I don't know, I've never heard of this guy or read anything by him), but nothing in the removed sentence gives any substantial information about the topic of this article (George Lakoff). Gronky ( talk) 22:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no mention of Lakoff's first book in the list of writings. Should it be added?
The link to Embodied Philosophy leads to Embodied Cognition. Is the naming intentional or should it be corrected? Wikikrax ( talk) 10:44, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
She's mentioned in both the infobox here and the one in Robin Lakoff, but only the latter article mentions her marriage to George in the text; this seems to be because her article has a biography section and George's does not. Shouldn't this be fixed? I'd do it but I'm not sure how. Also, the wikiproject tags disagree on whether this is start-class or C-class -- which is it? ekips39 ❀talk 16:21, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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