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Hey
Rublamb, I'm going to pick this up. I'll make minor copyedits as I go so please review those and revert any you disagree with. Otherwise I'll ping you once I've gone through.
grungaloo (
talk)
22:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Ref section exists, no plagiarism detected. Some unreliable sources used, and some statements don't match the source, see comments below. Sources fixed and addressed, statements have been corrected.
Images are licensed properly, captions are good. Could be reordered to match with the relevant practice Images are lined up to timeline.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
Comments
Refs 1,4,6,8,9,17 good, maybe some misinterpretations. See below.
Done Ref 26 is a blog and is flagged as unreliable. Could you please replace it?
Done Ref 35 is a blog and is flagged as unreliable. Could you please replace it? Comment: This is one of those blogs that qualifies as usable in Wikipedia (scholarly, has citations) but I am fine cutting that item from the project. I tried but could not find a digitized version of the period architectural journal that had the article about this house.
Done The images are all lumped together, could you you move them to they line up with the practice Palmer was working at when he design them?
Done Project table - Some have addresses, others don't, could you make this consistent? Comment: If the address came from the linked article about the building, I did not look for a source. New sources were added as needed. Note that there are no addresses for bridges, some campus buildings, and if the building no longer exists or was constructed before addresses were needed.
Done Project able - Make sure New York is consistently named (either New York or New York City). In some cases Manhattan is used, make sure boroughs are added consistently if you intend to use them.
Done Professional affiliations - this section could be dropped and the sentence moved to the first paragraph in Career.
DoneWood and Palmer and Wood, Palmer & Hornbostel - I would join these two sections together. They're short, and half of Wood and Palmer is just setting up for Hornbostel joining.
Done In this early phase of their career, they designed several mansions in New York City - Because you mentioned Hornbostel in the sentence before this, it sounds like this could be only referring to him. I'd try rewording to make it clear you're referring to all three.
Done It is also a contributing building to the Broadway-Riverside Drive Historic District. - "Contributing building" sounds odd. I think the source means that it's "one of" the buildings in the Broadway-Riverside district. Comment: Not all buildings in a historic district are architecturally or historically important. "Contributing" is NRHP terminology for a building that contributes to the importance of the district and was one of the reasons for the designation of the historic district. I am changing contributing to "architecturally significant", as I think that gets us past the NRHP jargon.
Donecirca 1900 through 1909 - Ref 2, source says circa 1899?
DoneIn 1904, Palmer won a technical school competition held by the Committee of Carnegie Technical Schools - Repetition, change to "won a competition held by"
Done for its new campus. - To design a building for its new campus, or the entire campus? Comment: both "new" and "entire" are correct, but I have updated for clarity
DoneWarren P. Laird, head of architecture at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the judges, said - Not seeing where it says this in the source? Comment: It was in the first half of the article which is now correctly linked in the citation.
Done"The buildings are treated with a simple yet effective use of brick and terra cotta. They..." - I'd make this a blockquote.
Done"It was not the exterior of the buildings that we found..." - probably another blockquote.
DoneIn New York City, they worked on the Brooklyn Bridge Terminal Station, Flatbush Unitarian Church (1903) - Do you have the year for the Station? For consistency.
DoneIn 1907, Palmer & Hornbostel designed the New York State Education Building in Albany, - Is there a reason why this building is being described in such detail as opposed to his other works? Maybe a quick sentence about why this one is more important? I'd also shorten the description overall, this is an article about the architect and not the building.
DoneThe exterior of the education building is based on the Tomb of Mausolus at Halicarnassus in Turkey - I would call just call it the Tomb of Halicarnassus, that's probably how it's best known. Comment: Good catch. I changed it to
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus to match Wikipedia article.
DoneHowever, only five buildings of their Acropolis Plan were - Acropolis Plan should have quotes.
Doneperhaps because they decorated the granite building with California's crops such as figs, grapes, olives and wheat rendered in terra cotta -
WP:SYN, nothing in the source seems to support that this is the reason it was selected. Needs a rewrite or to be removed.
DoneThey also laid out the campus and designed buildings - This can be joined to th previous paragraph.
DonePalmer & Hornbostel II - I would name this "Return to Palmer & Hornbostel" or something like that. The II doesn't really make sense since that's not what It was called.
Done Personal - Rename "Personal Life"
Could a section be added discussing his general style and methods? Comment: I have yet to find a source that gives an overview of his style and methods. I did add a detail about his primary style to the lede that does not tip into original research. I agree this section would be needed for an FA article but may not be essential for GA.
@
Grungaloo:: I believe I have addressed all of your suggestions, except for the last item (see comment). Please let me know if you have any other thoughts. And, thanks for working on this. It was one of my earlier efforts and is fun to revisit.
Rublamb (
talk)
05:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of U.S.
historic sites listed on the
National Register of Historic Places on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.National Register of Historic PlacesWikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesTemplate:WikiProject National Register of Historic PlacesNational Register of Historic Places articles
This article is written in
American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hey
Rublamb, I'm going to pick this up. I'll make minor copyedits as I go so please review those and revert any you disagree with. Otherwise I'll ping you once I've gone through.
grungaloo (
talk)
22:23, 3 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Ref section exists, no plagiarism detected. Some unreliable sources used, and some statements don't match the source, see comments below. Sources fixed and addressed, statements have been corrected.
Images are licensed properly, captions are good. Could be reordered to match with the relevant practice Images are lined up to timeline.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
Comments
Refs 1,4,6,8,9,17 good, maybe some misinterpretations. See below.
Done Ref 26 is a blog and is flagged as unreliable. Could you please replace it?
Done Ref 35 is a blog and is flagged as unreliable. Could you please replace it? Comment: This is one of those blogs that qualifies as usable in Wikipedia (scholarly, has citations) but I am fine cutting that item from the project. I tried but could not find a digitized version of the period architectural journal that had the article about this house.
Done The images are all lumped together, could you you move them to they line up with the practice Palmer was working at when he design them?
Done Project table - Some have addresses, others don't, could you make this consistent? Comment: If the address came from the linked article about the building, I did not look for a source. New sources were added as needed. Note that there are no addresses for bridges, some campus buildings, and if the building no longer exists or was constructed before addresses were needed.
Done Project able - Make sure New York is consistently named (either New York or New York City). In some cases Manhattan is used, make sure boroughs are added consistently if you intend to use them.
Done Professional affiliations - this section could be dropped and the sentence moved to the first paragraph in Career.
DoneWood and Palmer and Wood, Palmer & Hornbostel - I would join these two sections together. They're short, and half of Wood and Palmer is just setting up for Hornbostel joining.
Done In this early phase of their career, they designed several mansions in New York City - Because you mentioned Hornbostel in the sentence before this, it sounds like this could be only referring to him. I'd try rewording to make it clear you're referring to all three.
Done It is also a contributing building to the Broadway-Riverside Drive Historic District. - "Contributing building" sounds odd. I think the source means that it's "one of" the buildings in the Broadway-Riverside district. Comment: Not all buildings in a historic district are architecturally or historically important. "Contributing" is NRHP terminology for a building that contributes to the importance of the district and was one of the reasons for the designation of the historic district. I am changing contributing to "architecturally significant", as I think that gets us past the NRHP jargon.
Donecirca 1900 through 1909 - Ref 2, source says circa 1899?
DoneIn 1904, Palmer won a technical school competition held by the Committee of Carnegie Technical Schools - Repetition, change to "won a competition held by"
Done for its new campus. - To design a building for its new campus, or the entire campus? Comment: both "new" and "entire" are correct, but I have updated for clarity
DoneWarren P. Laird, head of architecture at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the judges, said - Not seeing where it says this in the source? Comment: It was in the first half of the article which is now correctly linked in the citation.
Done"The buildings are treated with a simple yet effective use of brick and terra cotta. They..." - I'd make this a blockquote.
Done"It was not the exterior of the buildings that we found..." - probably another blockquote.
DoneIn New York City, they worked on the Brooklyn Bridge Terminal Station, Flatbush Unitarian Church (1903) - Do you have the year for the Station? For consistency.
DoneIn 1907, Palmer & Hornbostel designed the New York State Education Building in Albany, - Is there a reason why this building is being described in such detail as opposed to his other works? Maybe a quick sentence about why this one is more important? I'd also shorten the description overall, this is an article about the architect and not the building.
DoneThe exterior of the education building is based on the Tomb of Mausolus at Halicarnassus in Turkey - I would call just call it the Tomb of Halicarnassus, that's probably how it's best known. Comment: Good catch. I changed it to
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus to match Wikipedia article.
DoneHowever, only five buildings of their Acropolis Plan were - Acropolis Plan should have quotes.
Doneperhaps because they decorated the granite building with California's crops such as figs, grapes, olives and wheat rendered in terra cotta -
WP:SYN, nothing in the source seems to support that this is the reason it was selected. Needs a rewrite or to be removed.
DoneThey also laid out the campus and designed buildings - This can be joined to th previous paragraph.
DonePalmer & Hornbostel II - I would name this "Return to Palmer & Hornbostel" or something like that. The II doesn't really make sense since that's not what It was called.
Done Personal - Rename "Personal Life"
Could a section be added discussing his general style and methods? Comment: I have yet to find a source that gives an overview of his style and methods. I did add a detail about his primary style to the lede that does not tip into original research. I agree this section would be needed for an FA article but may not be essential for GA.
@
Grungaloo:: I believe I have addressed all of your suggestions, except for the last item (see comment). Please let me know if you have any other thoughts. And, thanks for working on this. It was one of my earlier efforts and is fun to revisit.
Rublamb (
talk)
05:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.