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rated by T0mpr1c3 ( talk) 10:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
This entry is way too psychology-biased at the moment. I'm fairly certain that gene-environment interactions were talked about in biology several decades earlier than the article currently says of psychology (1990s; biology: 1950s? I'm thinking Waddington). - Samsara 16:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I would have guessed JBS Haldane... Pete.Hurd 06:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
While we're at it, could this page not be merged/redirected to heritability or nature versus nurture? it's really short, and I'm not sure where it's intended to go that would cover ground not properly covered on those pages. Pete.Hurd 06:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Francis et al 2003, Nature Neuroscience 6:445-446.
I wonder if there isn't a way to make a few remarks on the distinction of pre-natal and post-natal environments. Either one clearly falls in the category "environment", but I think many readers will tend to forget about pre-natal environment as a entering into the interactional quality of development. Maybe some reference to the Francis, et al. paper that you sent me, Pete.Hurd (Epigentetic sources of behaviral differences in mice), which was interesting in considering both environments along with gene strains. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 21:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
T0mpr1c3's recent comment on this old thread made me want to add some general description of pre-/post-natal distinction. I was trying to squeeze in a link to "epigenetics", but I couldn't quite get it in the flow. I certainly welcome any improvements on my addition. LotLEĂ talk 01:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The concept of heritability really needs working in, somewhere in the first paragraph. Pete.Hurd 05:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed the chart, even though it is a really nice picture, because it does no necessarily give a correct description of GxE interaction. An interaction would occur if the same environmental manipulation has differential effects on individuals (plants in this case) with different genotypes. If the environmental effect is the same regardless of genotype, we have si,ple additivity of genotype and environment. As an example, take two genotypes G1 and G2 and two environments E1 and E2. Additivity would occur if, for example, we have the following case:
(E2 increases the studied character with the same amount in each genotype). An interaction occurs in this example:
(E2 increases the character in each genotype, but much more so in G2 than in G1). Or, in the case of Tryon's rats:
(G1 and G2 differ in E1 but not in E2). -- Crusio 16:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I did not create the chart, so am not certain what it's creator intended. But my reading was that each pot illustrated seven different genotypes, arranged in the same order in the left and right pots. The response to the changed soil is not identical across genotypes: for example, the tallest plant on the left does not match the position/genotype of the tallest one on the right. The point in the graphic caption is that within each pot, all the variation is genetic (since the environmental conditions are identical within a pot. Between pots an environmental effect changes expression of the group (and only environmental, since the same genotypic range occurs in each pot). LotLEĂ talk 19:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
If it's the shared opinion of Crusio and Pete.Hurd that this isn't the right chart for this article, I bow to that consensus. I realize it's not a "fully general" illustration of the concept. Maybe if Pete or Crusio has an idea of what a better illustration would be, you could write to the creator of the first chart to see if he could do it. I like the style of the plants of different heights, in any case: it just feels friendlier for this than a completely abstract bar chart or line chart. LotLEĂ talk 18:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
"Heritable phenotypic variation among individuals of a single genotype, elicited by variation in environmental conditions" (Keller, EF, and Lloyd, EA (1992). Keywords in Evolutionary Biology, p.256.) I tried to paraphrase, evidently not to everybody's satisfaction. Also I think we probably need some further discussion of how reaction norms relate to the concept of GxE, maybe along the lines of http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/heredity/ Any offers? T0mpr1c3 ( talk) 10:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I have moved this edit from the article to here:
The text is not sufficiently helpful to be warranted, and certainly should not be in the WP:LEAD (because that is a summary of the article). Further, we do not embed external links in articles; instead, links which satisfy WP:EL should be in an "External links" section. Ideally, someone would find some useful information from the site and use it as a reference for material added to the article. Johnuniq ( talk) 03:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Biology and Genetics Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human genetics and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library system at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to other academic libraries in the same large metropolitan area) and have been researching these issues sporadically since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 20:17, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
I think it would be good to add some short info about this study's findings to the article and/or other relevant articles (like human height and brain size). It's currently featured in 2021 in science like so:
Scientists report that in the past â with little relevance to future evolution â lower temperatures were associated with larger Homo body sizes and that long-term variability in precipitation was correlated with brain size. [1] [2]
-- Prototyperspective ( talk) 14:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
References
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rated by T0mpr1c3 ( talk) 10:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
This entry is way too psychology-biased at the moment. I'm fairly certain that gene-environment interactions were talked about in biology several decades earlier than the article currently says of psychology (1990s; biology: 1950s? I'm thinking Waddington). - Samsara 16:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I would have guessed JBS Haldane... Pete.Hurd 06:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
While we're at it, could this page not be merged/redirected to heritability or nature versus nurture? it's really short, and I'm not sure where it's intended to go that would cover ground not properly covered on those pages. Pete.Hurd 06:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Francis et al 2003, Nature Neuroscience 6:445-446.
I wonder if there isn't a way to make a few remarks on the distinction of pre-natal and post-natal environments. Either one clearly falls in the category "environment", but I think many readers will tend to forget about pre-natal environment as a entering into the interactional quality of development. Maybe some reference to the Francis, et al. paper that you sent me, Pete.Hurd (Epigentetic sources of behaviral differences in mice), which was interesting in considering both environments along with gene strains. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 21:24, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
T0mpr1c3's recent comment on this old thread made me want to add some general description of pre-/post-natal distinction. I was trying to squeeze in a link to "epigenetics", but I couldn't quite get it in the flow. I certainly welcome any improvements on my addition. LotLEĂ talk 01:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
The concept of heritability really needs working in, somewhere in the first paragraph. Pete.Hurd 05:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed the chart, even though it is a really nice picture, because it does no necessarily give a correct description of GxE interaction. An interaction would occur if the same environmental manipulation has differential effects on individuals (plants in this case) with different genotypes. If the environmental effect is the same regardless of genotype, we have si,ple additivity of genotype and environment. As an example, take two genotypes G1 and G2 and two environments E1 and E2. Additivity would occur if, for example, we have the following case:
(E2 increases the studied character with the same amount in each genotype). An interaction occurs in this example:
(E2 increases the character in each genotype, but much more so in G2 than in G1). Or, in the case of Tryon's rats:
(G1 and G2 differ in E1 but not in E2). -- Crusio 16:59, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I did not create the chart, so am not certain what it's creator intended. But my reading was that each pot illustrated seven different genotypes, arranged in the same order in the left and right pots. The response to the changed soil is not identical across genotypes: for example, the tallest plant on the left does not match the position/genotype of the tallest one on the right. The point in the graphic caption is that within each pot, all the variation is genetic (since the environmental conditions are identical within a pot. Between pots an environmental effect changes expression of the group (and only environmental, since the same genotypic range occurs in each pot). LotLEĂ talk 19:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
If it's the shared opinion of Crusio and Pete.Hurd that this isn't the right chart for this article, I bow to that consensus. I realize it's not a "fully general" illustration of the concept. Maybe if Pete or Crusio has an idea of what a better illustration would be, you could write to the creator of the first chart to see if he could do it. I like the style of the plants of different heights, in any case: it just feels friendlier for this than a completely abstract bar chart or line chart. LotLEĂ talk 18:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
"Heritable phenotypic variation among individuals of a single genotype, elicited by variation in environmental conditions" (Keller, EF, and Lloyd, EA (1992). Keywords in Evolutionary Biology, p.256.) I tried to paraphrase, evidently not to everybody's satisfaction. Also I think we probably need some further discussion of how reaction norms relate to the concept of GxE, maybe along the lines of http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/heredity/ Any offers? T0mpr1c3 ( talk) 10:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I have moved this edit from the article to here:
The text is not sufficiently helpful to be warranted, and certainly should not be in the WP:LEAD (because that is a summary of the article). Further, we do not embed external links in articles; instead, links which satisfy WP:EL should be in an "External links" section. Ideally, someone would find some useful information from the site and use it as a reference for material added to the article. Johnuniq ( talk) 03:39, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Biology and Genetics Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human genetics and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library system at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to other academic libraries in the same large metropolitan area) and have been researching these issues sporadically since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 20:17, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
I think it would be good to add some short info about this study's findings to the article and/or other relevant articles (like human height and brain size). It's currently featured in 2021 in science like so:
Scientists report that in the past â with little relevance to future evolution â lower temperatures were associated with larger Homo body sizes and that long-term variability in precipitation was correlated with brain size. [1] [2]
-- Prototyperspective ( talk) 14:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
References