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This talk page is a bit messy, hard to follow, and in some places, totally irrelevant. I've consolidated all of the information on the Themes debate and moved a few items to "Past Issues". I did actually delete a few issues that seem to have been resolved, or at least there's no longer any evidence of them in the article itself. I left "resolved" issues that seemed likely to come up again in the "Past Issues" section. If your comments were among the deleted and you feel they're unexpendable, you can let me know within the next week and I'll restore them. I'll still have the text saved for a while. In general though, I'm going to put some time into editing this article, because it looks like it really needs it. I'd appreciate anyone's input here during the process. -- Hurtstotouchfire 05:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can remember, there is NO mention that Sam has Autism in the movie. While yes, Autism has a WIDE range of spectrum to it, I cannot see how anyone interprets Sam as Autistic. However, regardless of my own personal opinions, use of "Autism", in this case, honestly looks to be "original research" and should be removed unless someone has a citation where Braff says he wrote the character to portray someone with Autism. Pixiestix ( talk) 21:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC) Thank you to whomever fixed this!!!! Pixiestix ( talk) 06:02, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed.
hey kids, a bit of trivia: the 'helmet' portman's character wears is called a scrum cap. it's used in the sport of rugby to protect the player's head, and--in the scrum--one's ears. i thought it might be relevant since braff's character asks what kind it is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.59.195.91 ( talk) 05:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC).
I'm not deeply familiar with the various different modes of referencing, so I don't know why my reference is in bold with a ' before it. If anyone cares to enlighten me that'd be nice, otherwise I shall dig it out of the portal tomorrow. -- Hurtstotouchfire 08:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I added the reference for Braff's "80% Real Life" line. It was in the making of documentary. I've watched all the DVD extras now except the commentary, so I'm hoping that will reveal the origin of this title, because I actually still haven't figured that one out. I liked the working title "Large's Ark" better myself. Anyone know? Also, I loved the cut scene with Ian Holm, what a pity. I'm almost tempted to work that into the article somehow. We'll see. Perhaps there's some critical discussion somewhere about Holm being underused. -- Hurtstotouchfire 08:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Look, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. First of all, "Garden State" is the nickname for the state of New Jersey, where the film takes place. Secondly, Andrew Largeman is attempting to escape from the empty, emotionless, numb state that he's been living in since he was a child, due to his overly-prescribed lithium. A garden-like state, or "garden state," if you will. A careful viewer will also note that Andrew's friends (high on coke, ecstasy and dope) live in a similar state of apathy. The film is about escaping from this state. If you're going to work this into the article, feel free, because I'm 100% confident in my interpretation. But please be mature and use some sources. -- BeastKing89 08:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Two things:
Note that the plot summary should NOT consist of a play-by-play recap of how the movie goes. Only the important details need to be in the plot summary, and having seen the film, there are several trivial parts of the plot summary. Irk (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The plot summary should also mention the role of lithium and other drugs in the film; Largeman decides not to take his lithium early in the movie and becomes incresingly more animated through the film as he thaws out and rediscovers life.
We don't currently have a Themes section. I'd like to see it worked into Plot Summary myself, themes being, well, a part of the plot. I would be open to creating a new section if that seems feasible. I'm going to try to work from the themes link provided below by Valet5 and whatever other reliable bits I can dredge up on the interweb. -- Hurtstotouchfire 06:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
This article seems like one person's interpretation of the film. Who decided the themes? By whom is this movie considered a major success? And who decided what points of the plot are important or not? Ohyeahmormons 03:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Yet despite it's length the summary fails to mention
I'm removing the themes section, because what one thinks of the film is not what Braff meant by the film. Ohyeahmormons 20:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I have removed this for now. Its POV, and is not referenced. There is definantly room for a Themes section in the article, but it needs to be worked on here on the talk page, referenced properly and written in a neutral way. So i'm pasting this here, so not to lose it all, if someone wants to use it. Sunrise50 08:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The themes present in Garden State revolve around the development of Andrew Largeman. One of the recurring themes is that one only has one chance at life, and one must take that chance now in the present. The characters comment on this, the earliest example being when Sam tells Andrew to perform an original movement, even though at the time, Andrew did not fully believe in what she was saying.
Come the end of the film, Andrew's outlook on life has changed. After finally holding discussions with his father, Andrew expresses his desire to start living his life now, and asks his father to do the same, despite any problems that may be in their lives. For one of the first times in the film, Andrew makes a spontaneous decision to not get on a plane back to Los Angeles, and instead stay where he is, and live his life now, rather than trying to sort out whatever he needed to do in Los Angeles.
The Themes section has been removed because it was in violation of Wikipedia's no original research policy. Nothing in the section seemed to have come from any kind of source except the minds of editors, which is original research. To address the themes of this film, find reliable sources to cite so observations can be verified by other users. The fact that there is a dispute about the film's themes on the talk page with no source being discussed clearly indicates that this section was original research. -- Erik ( talk/ contrib) @ 21:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know well the historical development of the section. However, it looks like the removed piece (or at least, its beginning) does come straight (maybe too straight) from [1], already mentioned above. Part of the rest is IMHO likely wrong, so I'm not going to have it back without sources. -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 22:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
1. The plot summary is tolerable, but needs cleanup ASAP. It is way too POV and including details like the cryptically described "lie" his dad tells him (which was just like that he had cleaned the house or something) and the way-too-indepth description of the conversation with the Ark guy make it sound like a grade schooler wrote this, which I suppose is possible. There's too many minute details, though I imagine this is because at one point it was even more egregiously detailed
2. I believe it says that Zach Braff "hand picked" the music twice. Is this necessary? I mean, I know the soundtrack is as acclaimed as the film, but it's not exactly noteworthy that he, the director, chose the film's music. This child-like giddiness could be removed also. SF, 1/7/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.223.112 ( talk) 04:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
-In response to the complaint about Zach picking the soundtrack, the songs on it fit the movie perfect. Since Zach wrote and direct the movie the sound track helps illustrate his vision. -Jlkorpal —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jlkorpal (
talk •
contribs)
01:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Silent velcro currently redirects to this article. -- Hurtstotouchfire 05:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
[This text was copied from the Silent Velcro talk page, which no longer exists]
This page was recently nominated for deletion, and the consensus decision was to keep it. The deletion debate is archived here. ugen 64 03:58, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Silent velcro *is* mentioned in the "Velcro" article, albeit only very briefly. Still, since it's at least mentioned in that article, and is not mentioned at all in this one, perhaps "silent velcro" should redirect there, instead? Or maybe there should be a link from here to there? While I agree that most people will search for it because it was mentioned in Garden State, as I did, the status quo seems unwise, as there actually *is* Wikipedia information on this topic, as I found when I Googled it. -- ABPend 01:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The section of the film itself, that this page and or user refers to is a small piece that is not really worth mentioning. If someone develops a Trivia section or something similar to that on the Garden State page, then this should be put in their. Otherwise, it's really not that worthwhile. -- Matt von Furrie 07:46, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I've posted Silent Velcro to Wikipedia:Requested moves#Uncontroversial proposals. To the best of my ability to determine, that was the appropriate place. (appreciate wisdom otherwise)-- Hurtstotouchfire 21:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
This article lists Such Great Heights, in the soundtrack, as made by Iron & Wine. It's really made by The Postal Service, is it not? -- Spug 00:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
It's probably just me, but as a resident of the locations which were used for filming in New Jersey (specifically South Orange and Maplewood), shouldn't Maplewood also be placed in the film location section? It's true, my experience is anecdotal, however I was able to pinpoint several spots throughout the movie which could be considered sections of Maplewood, and not just South Orange. For example, the drive-by past the high school (Columbia High School), which is officially in Maplewood, despite being a part of the combined Maplewood/South Orange School District.
It says on the Rick Moody (an author) page, that he wrote the novel of Garden State back in 1992, so this film is obviously based on that book...it even says it on the Rick Moody page, so I think that this article should mention it, although I'm not certain on whether it is true that this is based on the book, could someone please confirm that it is? RaptorRobot 13:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
"Garden State" is a term to describe the state of New Jersey; it's not necessarily a unique phrase. If you read about the book at Amazon.com, it doesn't sound very similar to the film. In addition, due to the lack of citation between this novel and the film, I removed the information. -- Erik ( talk/ contrib) @ 15:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
"...when he accidentally brought about his mother's paraplegia". This text is in the opening paragraph. This is not made known to the viewer until a decent way into the movie, and therefore I think it should not be included in this section, but maybe in the one below it which has a spoiler warning. It seems like a bit of a spoiler to me.
It's not such an important factor of the movie, so I don't see why moving it to a spoiler would be neccesary. -- Chitomcgee 05:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the cast section, because I doesn't add anything to the article. It wasn't a cast section all together, it were small descriptions of the lead characters, already explained in the plot section. I think someone was trying to be helpful, but it is a bit pointless to add it twice. -- Soetermans 22:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the song is that plays in the main menu on the DVD? I don't believe that it's on the soundtrack, although I could be wrong. Bluemoonflame 13:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
very simply: is this quotes section a joke?
i do not know of any "Zach Braffin." the ubiquitous google search yields nothing.
i intend on deleting the entire "quotes" section if there is not a legitimate reason for the "quote" to exist on this wikipedia page.
This film was referenced in Family Guy Season 6 Episode 9, should this be added to the article? Norgy ( talk) 19:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
After reading this information, wanting to contribute to that, and seeing it just disappear without even a mention on the talk page on change [3], I thought I'd start a discussion about it.
"The search for Andrew's mother's pendant, presented to him as a gift by his friend Mark, represents a search for meaning. Mark tells Andrew he would be lying if he said the pendant was what he had been looking for all along. They find the pendant in a ship at the bottom of the quarry. Living in the ship are "guardians of an infinite abyss". Mark, Andrew and Sam scream in defiance at the abyss. One of the guardians, Albert, claims to have explored the abyss extensively. As the three characters leave the quarry Andrew says to Albert, "good luck exploring the infinite abyss". Albert replies, "Hey, you too." [1]
At the close of the film, after declaring he wants to spend his life with her, Andrew asks Sam, "What do we do?". This may lend a clue to what the abyss represents - the enormity of the future, the hollowness of infinite possibility, and the absence of guidance in finding a way forward. [2]"
Now, according to the policy, you aren't expected to remove immediately unsourced material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Unsourced_material Moreover, while a blog can't be a totally reliable source, interpretation is important in movies and art. So I'd rather leave the text while prepending something like "an interpretation is". -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 08:38, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
References
I don't like the plot summary at all. While the article shouldn't carry my interpretation of the movie, I think (and I hope that people watching the movie agree with me) that a lot of moments which really have a symbolic significance aren't even mentioned in the plot summary. It's a cold and impersonal summary. I'll start to add some mention of important facts on it, and I hope somebody will join me. -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 08:41, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Garden State (film) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This talk page is a bit messy, hard to follow, and in some places, totally irrelevant. I've consolidated all of the information on the Themes debate and moved a few items to "Past Issues". I did actually delete a few issues that seem to have been resolved, or at least there's no longer any evidence of them in the article itself. I left "resolved" issues that seemed likely to come up again in the "Past Issues" section. If your comments were among the deleted and you feel they're unexpendable, you can let me know within the next week and I'll restore them. I'll still have the text saved for a while. In general though, I'm going to put some time into editing this article, because it looks like it really needs it. I'd appreciate anyone's input here during the process. -- Hurtstotouchfire 05:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can remember, there is NO mention that Sam has Autism in the movie. While yes, Autism has a WIDE range of spectrum to it, I cannot see how anyone interprets Sam as Autistic. However, regardless of my own personal opinions, use of "Autism", in this case, honestly looks to be "original research" and should be removed unless someone has a citation where Braff says he wrote the character to portray someone with Autism. Pixiestix ( talk) 21:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC) Thank you to whomever fixed this!!!! Pixiestix ( talk) 06:02, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Agreed.
hey kids, a bit of trivia: the 'helmet' portman's character wears is called a scrum cap. it's used in the sport of rugby to protect the player's head, and--in the scrum--one's ears. i thought it might be relevant since braff's character asks what kind it is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.59.195.91 ( talk) 05:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC).
I'm not deeply familiar with the various different modes of referencing, so I don't know why my reference is in bold with a ' before it. If anyone cares to enlighten me that'd be nice, otherwise I shall dig it out of the portal tomorrow. -- Hurtstotouchfire 08:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I added the reference for Braff's "80% Real Life" line. It was in the making of documentary. I've watched all the DVD extras now except the commentary, so I'm hoping that will reveal the origin of this title, because I actually still haven't figured that one out. I liked the working title "Large's Ark" better myself. Anyone know? Also, I loved the cut scene with Ian Holm, what a pity. I'm almost tempted to work that into the article somehow. We'll see. Perhaps there's some critical discussion somewhere about Holm being underused. -- Hurtstotouchfire 08:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Look, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. First of all, "Garden State" is the nickname for the state of New Jersey, where the film takes place. Secondly, Andrew Largeman is attempting to escape from the empty, emotionless, numb state that he's been living in since he was a child, due to his overly-prescribed lithium. A garden-like state, or "garden state," if you will. A careful viewer will also note that Andrew's friends (high on coke, ecstasy and dope) live in a similar state of apathy. The film is about escaping from this state. If you're going to work this into the article, feel free, because I'm 100% confident in my interpretation. But please be mature and use some sources. -- BeastKing89 08:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Two things:
Note that the plot summary should NOT consist of a play-by-play recap of how the movie goes. Only the important details need to be in the plot summary, and having seen the film, there are several trivial parts of the plot summary. Irk (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The plot summary should also mention the role of lithium and other drugs in the film; Largeman decides not to take his lithium early in the movie and becomes incresingly more animated through the film as he thaws out and rediscovers life.
We don't currently have a Themes section. I'd like to see it worked into Plot Summary myself, themes being, well, a part of the plot. I would be open to creating a new section if that seems feasible. I'm going to try to work from the themes link provided below by Valet5 and whatever other reliable bits I can dredge up on the interweb. -- Hurtstotouchfire 06:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
This article seems like one person's interpretation of the film. Who decided the themes? By whom is this movie considered a major success? And who decided what points of the plot are important or not? Ohyeahmormons 03:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Yet despite it's length the summary fails to mention
I'm removing the themes section, because what one thinks of the film is not what Braff meant by the film. Ohyeahmormons 20:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I have removed this for now. Its POV, and is not referenced. There is definantly room for a Themes section in the article, but it needs to be worked on here on the talk page, referenced properly and written in a neutral way. So i'm pasting this here, so not to lose it all, if someone wants to use it. Sunrise50 08:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The themes present in Garden State revolve around the development of Andrew Largeman. One of the recurring themes is that one only has one chance at life, and one must take that chance now in the present. The characters comment on this, the earliest example being when Sam tells Andrew to perform an original movement, even though at the time, Andrew did not fully believe in what she was saying.
Come the end of the film, Andrew's outlook on life has changed. After finally holding discussions with his father, Andrew expresses his desire to start living his life now, and asks his father to do the same, despite any problems that may be in their lives. For one of the first times in the film, Andrew makes a spontaneous decision to not get on a plane back to Los Angeles, and instead stay where he is, and live his life now, rather than trying to sort out whatever he needed to do in Los Angeles.
The Themes section has been removed because it was in violation of Wikipedia's no original research policy. Nothing in the section seemed to have come from any kind of source except the minds of editors, which is original research. To address the themes of this film, find reliable sources to cite so observations can be verified by other users. The fact that there is a dispute about the film's themes on the talk page with no source being discussed clearly indicates that this section was original research. -- Erik ( talk/ contrib) @ 21:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know well the historical development of the section. However, it looks like the removed piece (or at least, its beginning) does come straight (maybe too straight) from [1], already mentioned above. Part of the rest is IMHO likely wrong, so I'm not going to have it back without sources. -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 22:26, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
1. The plot summary is tolerable, but needs cleanup ASAP. It is way too POV and including details like the cryptically described "lie" his dad tells him (which was just like that he had cleaned the house or something) and the way-too-indepth description of the conversation with the Ark guy make it sound like a grade schooler wrote this, which I suppose is possible. There's too many minute details, though I imagine this is because at one point it was even more egregiously detailed
2. I believe it says that Zach Braff "hand picked" the music twice. Is this necessary? I mean, I know the soundtrack is as acclaimed as the film, but it's not exactly noteworthy that he, the director, chose the film's music. This child-like giddiness could be removed also. SF, 1/7/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.237.223.112 ( talk) 04:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
-In response to the complaint about Zach picking the soundtrack, the songs on it fit the movie perfect. Since Zach wrote and direct the movie the sound track helps illustrate his vision. -Jlkorpal —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jlkorpal (
talk •
contribs)
01:03, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
Silent velcro currently redirects to this article. -- Hurtstotouchfire 05:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
[This text was copied from the Silent Velcro talk page, which no longer exists]
This page was recently nominated for deletion, and the consensus decision was to keep it. The deletion debate is archived here. ugen 64 03:58, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Silent velcro *is* mentioned in the "Velcro" article, albeit only very briefly. Still, since it's at least mentioned in that article, and is not mentioned at all in this one, perhaps "silent velcro" should redirect there, instead? Or maybe there should be a link from here to there? While I agree that most people will search for it because it was mentioned in Garden State, as I did, the status quo seems unwise, as there actually *is* Wikipedia information on this topic, as I found when I Googled it. -- ABPend 01:10, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The section of the film itself, that this page and or user refers to is a small piece that is not really worth mentioning. If someone develops a Trivia section or something similar to that on the Garden State page, then this should be put in their. Otherwise, it's really not that worthwhile. -- Matt von Furrie 07:46, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I've posted Silent Velcro to Wikipedia:Requested moves#Uncontroversial proposals. To the best of my ability to determine, that was the appropriate place. (appreciate wisdom otherwise)-- Hurtstotouchfire 21:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
This article lists Such Great Heights, in the soundtrack, as made by Iron & Wine. It's really made by The Postal Service, is it not? -- Spug 00:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
It's probably just me, but as a resident of the locations which were used for filming in New Jersey (specifically South Orange and Maplewood), shouldn't Maplewood also be placed in the film location section? It's true, my experience is anecdotal, however I was able to pinpoint several spots throughout the movie which could be considered sections of Maplewood, and not just South Orange. For example, the drive-by past the high school (Columbia High School), which is officially in Maplewood, despite being a part of the combined Maplewood/South Orange School District.
It says on the Rick Moody (an author) page, that he wrote the novel of Garden State back in 1992, so this film is obviously based on that book...it even says it on the Rick Moody page, so I think that this article should mention it, although I'm not certain on whether it is true that this is based on the book, could someone please confirm that it is? RaptorRobot 13:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
"Garden State" is a term to describe the state of New Jersey; it's not necessarily a unique phrase. If you read about the book at Amazon.com, it doesn't sound very similar to the film. In addition, due to the lack of citation between this novel and the film, I removed the information. -- Erik ( talk/ contrib) @ 15:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
"...when he accidentally brought about his mother's paraplegia". This text is in the opening paragraph. This is not made known to the viewer until a decent way into the movie, and therefore I think it should not be included in this section, but maybe in the one below it which has a spoiler warning. It seems like a bit of a spoiler to me.
It's not such an important factor of the movie, so I don't see why moving it to a spoiler would be neccesary. -- Chitomcgee 05:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the cast section, because I doesn't add anything to the article. It wasn't a cast section all together, it were small descriptions of the lead characters, already explained in the plot section. I think someone was trying to be helpful, but it is a bit pointless to add it twice. -- Soetermans 22:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the song is that plays in the main menu on the DVD? I don't believe that it's on the soundtrack, although I could be wrong. Bluemoonflame 13:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
very simply: is this quotes section a joke?
i do not know of any "Zach Braffin." the ubiquitous google search yields nothing.
i intend on deleting the entire "quotes" section if there is not a legitimate reason for the "quote" to exist on this wikipedia page.
This film was referenced in Family Guy Season 6 Episode 9, should this be added to the article? Norgy ( talk) 19:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
After reading this information, wanting to contribute to that, and seeing it just disappear without even a mention on the talk page on change [3], I thought I'd start a discussion about it.
"The search for Andrew's mother's pendant, presented to him as a gift by his friend Mark, represents a search for meaning. Mark tells Andrew he would be lying if he said the pendant was what he had been looking for all along. They find the pendant in a ship at the bottom of the quarry. Living in the ship are "guardians of an infinite abyss". Mark, Andrew and Sam scream in defiance at the abyss. One of the guardians, Albert, claims to have explored the abyss extensively. As the three characters leave the quarry Andrew says to Albert, "good luck exploring the infinite abyss". Albert replies, "Hey, you too." [1]
At the close of the film, after declaring he wants to spend his life with her, Andrew asks Sam, "What do we do?". This may lend a clue to what the abyss represents - the enormity of the future, the hollowness of infinite possibility, and the absence of guidance in finding a way forward. [2]"
Now, according to the policy, you aren't expected to remove immediately unsourced material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Unsourced_material Moreover, while a blog can't be a totally reliable source, interpretation is important in movies and art. So I'd rather leave the text while prepending something like "an interpretation is". -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 08:38, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
References
I don't like the plot summary at all. While the article shouldn't carry my interpretation of the movie, I think (and I hope that people watching the movie agree with me) that a lot of moments which really have a symbolic significance aren't even mentioned in the plot summary. It's a cold and impersonal summary. I'll start to add some mention of important facts on it, and I hope somebody will join me. -- Blaisorblade ( talk) 08:41, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Garden State (film). Please take a moment to review
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