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OK, so what is the dispute? The banner is here, but no comments. What's up? -- RobNS 18:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
First I'm sorry for not posting the reasons the first time, I didnt know I had to, I am new wikipedian.
Second, about the article, I have no objections against the facts that are given, but simply this is the U.S theory and the conclusions of an investigation that did not last much after the disaster.
Egyptians do not believe or accept this. Egyptian officials have denied these incidents and denied that the disaster was an act of terror or suicide by Gameel Al Batouti, they have reasons to believe that the crash was a direct result of a mailfunction in the aircraft tail (something in arabic that is transilated literaly to "elevation plates of the tail" I'm not sure if this is its true name and translation to english).
Egypt Air officially denied on 25/06/2001; a report by Newsweek saying that Egyptian investigators have secretly announced that they have accepted the U.S point of view and theory which suggests hat the reserve copilot of EgyptAir Flight 990 deliberately plunged the jetliner into the Atlantic Ocean last fall. The Egyptians have hired legal and technical experts in an effort to discredit the U.S theory and to find out what really happened.
Furthermore, and away from the official announcements, most egyptians believe that it was not an act of terror or suicide, Al Batouti family said on a T.V interview that the man was totally sane and professional and had no problems an was not an extremist. Egyptians agree with the mailfuntion theory, but some few even have more dramatic theories, one directly accusing the U.S of shooting down the plane confirming that there was a bundle of flame which hit the aircraft moments before it crashed, and they say that the U.S have shot it down because there was a highly trained Egyptian Special Forces group on board which if returned to Egypt will cause a military unbalance with Israel. Others say that the U.S investigation served the Boeing Corporation interests causing the avoidance of paying compensations to the victims.
Personally I go with the mailfunction theory, but this doesnt matter, all I want to do is to post these thoeries Egyptians point of view along the U.S theory, I have no objections on posting the U.S theory or what is already posted.
I want to note that the cause of the disaster is stated on the wikipedia Flight 990 page as Disputed.
Thank you. nÅnNü 14:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I would just add a note about the conflicting conclusions to the intro, and the Flight 990 section. With verifiable sources of course. Murderbike 17:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is neutral. While the NTSB specifically stated that the cause of the plane going into the dive was because of the manual stick actions Batouti performed himself, no where in the article does it actually state that the crash was due to Batouti committing suicide, even though that is the most plausible explanation. Injecting claims of the plane being shot down by the US is pure fantasy. This smacks of the Egyptian government grabbing at straws and continuing to live in denial.... Philvb 05:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
The following thread was originally posted on my user talk page, but as it is relevent to the discussion here, and since it deals with the proposal and acceptance of compromise text, I am pasting it here for the record. AKRadecki Speaketh 18:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Akradecki, you posted this on my talk page after I retagged the article as {{totallydisputed}}:
You seem to still be insisting on tagging this article, even though it has been explained to you that the tag is inappropriate. You are free to believe that the cause of the disaster as determined by the NTSB is wrong, however your POV belief does not qualify as a factual assertion that the biographical article is not neutral. Please stop adding the tag, or your edits will be considered disruptive.
But have you read my post on the article's talk page about my reasons before posting this? Because it seems to me that you dont even understand why am I retagging the article as {{totallydisputed}} over and over again. So to make a long story short I'm not tagging it because I disagree with the cause of disaster determined by the NTSB, I'm doing this because to my opinion this article is missing the Egyptian disagreement on the cause of disaster determined by the NTSB. So please read my post if you havent already, and please inform me about the appropriate action that should be done. Thank you. ñÅñÑü Talk 06:54, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I just want to thank you for your patience on my little experience on Wikipedia, but believe me I'm just trying to do the right thing. ñÅñÑü Talk 08:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly. None of the views should be given undue weight or asserted as being judged as "the truth", in order that the various significant published viewpoints are made accessible to the reader, not just the most popular one.
You Americans are real racists, I couldn't change anything to make this article more objective! Well, it doesn't matter, 'cause nobody takes Wikipedia seriously ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.46.8 ( talk) 15:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Google 'David Burke' and 'Flight 1771'. Americans too are capable of deliberately crashing a passenger plane and committing mass murder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.17.0.1 ( talk) 12:29, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
"EgyptAir Pilot Sought Revenge By Crashing, Co-Worker Said" http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/16/us/egyptair-pilot-sought-revenge-by-crashing-co-worker-said.html?ref=gamilalbatouti
I don't know how reliable that is, nor even if he was really demoted, but thought I would add it to the talk.
Also, this article states for a fact that the two pilots fought for control. I think it would be more accurate to say that all forensic information points to that scenario.-- Skintigh ( talk) 14:57, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:11, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I have removed parts of the section "Flight 990" that state that the plane was deliberately crashed and replaced them with a summary of the incident from the article on the crash. Can someone knowledgeable on the subject please edit this to focus on Al-Batouti's actions prior to the crash? Lettler hello • contribs 10:38, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
It states that he killed all passengers, "then" committed suicide. There is some controversy over that, to be sure, though I think that is mostly from the Egyptian government trying to deflect blame from their citizens and airline. However, assuming the intentional crash theory is correct (which I do), everyone died at the same time. There was no "one group, then another" in the timeline. The phrasing in the opening paragraph suggests something incorrect even to the theory it is supposed to be putting forth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:410:4280:6610:4B9C:3A50:4B15:B22F ( talk) 23:49, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Gameel Al-Batouti article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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OK, so what is the dispute? The banner is here, but no comments. What's up? -- RobNS 18:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
First I'm sorry for not posting the reasons the first time, I didnt know I had to, I am new wikipedian.
Second, about the article, I have no objections against the facts that are given, but simply this is the U.S theory and the conclusions of an investigation that did not last much after the disaster.
Egyptians do not believe or accept this. Egyptian officials have denied these incidents and denied that the disaster was an act of terror or suicide by Gameel Al Batouti, they have reasons to believe that the crash was a direct result of a mailfunction in the aircraft tail (something in arabic that is transilated literaly to "elevation plates of the tail" I'm not sure if this is its true name and translation to english).
Egypt Air officially denied on 25/06/2001; a report by Newsweek saying that Egyptian investigators have secretly announced that they have accepted the U.S point of view and theory which suggests hat the reserve copilot of EgyptAir Flight 990 deliberately plunged the jetliner into the Atlantic Ocean last fall. The Egyptians have hired legal and technical experts in an effort to discredit the U.S theory and to find out what really happened.
Furthermore, and away from the official announcements, most egyptians believe that it was not an act of terror or suicide, Al Batouti family said on a T.V interview that the man was totally sane and professional and had no problems an was not an extremist. Egyptians agree with the mailfuntion theory, but some few even have more dramatic theories, one directly accusing the U.S of shooting down the plane confirming that there was a bundle of flame which hit the aircraft moments before it crashed, and they say that the U.S have shot it down because there was a highly trained Egyptian Special Forces group on board which if returned to Egypt will cause a military unbalance with Israel. Others say that the U.S investigation served the Boeing Corporation interests causing the avoidance of paying compensations to the victims.
Personally I go with the mailfunction theory, but this doesnt matter, all I want to do is to post these thoeries Egyptians point of view along the U.S theory, I have no objections on posting the U.S theory or what is already posted.
I want to note that the cause of the disaster is stated on the wikipedia Flight 990 page as Disputed.
Thank you. nÅnNü 14:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I would just add a note about the conflicting conclusions to the intro, and the Flight 990 section. With verifiable sources of course. Murderbike 17:43, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is neutral. While the NTSB specifically stated that the cause of the plane going into the dive was because of the manual stick actions Batouti performed himself, no where in the article does it actually state that the crash was due to Batouti committing suicide, even though that is the most plausible explanation. Injecting claims of the plane being shot down by the US is pure fantasy. This smacks of the Egyptian government grabbing at straws and continuing to live in denial.... Philvb 05:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
The following thread was originally posted on my user talk page, but as it is relevent to the discussion here, and since it deals with the proposal and acceptance of compromise text, I am pasting it here for the record. AKRadecki Speaketh 18:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Akradecki, you posted this on my talk page after I retagged the article as {{totallydisputed}}:
You seem to still be insisting on tagging this article, even though it has been explained to you that the tag is inappropriate. You are free to believe that the cause of the disaster as determined by the NTSB is wrong, however your POV belief does not qualify as a factual assertion that the biographical article is not neutral. Please stop adding the tag, or your edits will be considered disruptive.
But have you read my post on the article's talk page about my reasons before posting this? Because it seems to me that you dont even understand why am I retagging the article as {{totallydisputed}} over and over again. So to make a long story short I'm not tagging it because I disagree with the cause of disaster determined by the NTSB, I'm doing this because to my opinion this article is missing the Egyptian disagreement on the cause of disaster determined by the NTSB. So please read my post if you havent already, and please inform me about the appropriate action that should be done. Thank you. ñÅñÑü Talk 06:54, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I just want to thank you for your patience on my little experience on Wikipedia, but believe me I'm just trying to do the right thing. ñÅñÑü Talk 08:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly. None of the views should be given undue weight or asserted as being judged as "the truth", in order that the various significant published viewpoints are made accessible to the reader, not just the most popular one.
You Americans are real racists, I couldn't change anything to make this article more objective! Well, it doesn't matter, 'cause nobody takes Wikipedia seriously ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.46.8 ( talk) 15:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Google 'David Burke' and 'Flight 1771'. Americans too are capable of deliberately crashing a passenger plane and committing mass murder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.17.0.1 ( talk) 12:29, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
"EgyptAir Pilot Sought Revenge By Crashing, Co-Worker Said" http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/16/us/egyptair-pilot-sought-revenge-by-crashing-co-worker-said.html?ref=gamilalbatouti
I don't know how reliable that is, nor even if he was really demoted, but thought I would add it to the talk.
Also, this article states for a fact that the two pilots fought for control. I think it would be more accurate to say that all forensic information points to that scenario.-- Skintigh ( talk) 14:57, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Gameel Al-Batouti. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:11, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
I have removed parts of the section "Flight 990" that state that the plane was deliberately crashed and replaced them with a summary of the incident from the article on the crash. Can someone knowledgeable on the subject please edit this to focus on Al-Batouti's actions prior to the crash? Lettler hello • contribs 10:38, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
It states that he killed all passengers, "then" committed suicide. There is some controversy over that, to be sure, though I think that is mostly from the Egyptian government trying to deflect blame from their citizens and airline. However, assuming the intentional crash theory is correct (which I do), everyone died at the same time. There was no "one group, then another" in the timeline. The phrasing in the opening paragraph suggests something incorrect even to the theory it is supposed to be putting forth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:410:4280:6610:4B9C:3A50:4B15:B22F ( talk) 23:49, 18 February 2023 (UTC)