![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Quote: "Gaia's voice is heard throughout the first God of War, voiced by Linda hunt, telling the story of the main character's, Kratos, journey from Spartan general all the way through to his becoming the new god of war. She also appears in God of War 2 and helps Kratos get out of Hades and on his way to exacting revenge against Zeus" - What is this paragraph doing in the references section? I propose to delete it if nobody objects. Watasenia 19:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok what you say is right and really but from the game play Kratos Killed all Gods in his searching to revenge for Zeus , He win. He will kill the Gods,and Zeus God of Thunder but he will kill Gaia too I really don't know why. Because Gaia was wanting to kill him or because on his mad he throw Zeus in Gaia's heart ,Kratos escapes but Gaia die with Zeus on his heart. 10:57 14 Aprill 2010 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Northred (
talk •
contribs)
07:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate to insert between the names of the children of Gaia, instead of two hyphens? Because name lists are exactly what serial commas are used for. The hyphen makes it look like the first listed child give birth to the second, and the third. -- Menchi 04:39 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)
A question of style. The header ==Gaia in mythology== has a preceding "1". But I was always taught that you should never have a numerical heading of you're only going to have one of them. If this header is going to be preceded by a "1", shouldn't there be another header down below preceded by a "2"? Is there a way to remove the numerical prefix? RickK 01:16 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Moved from Village Pump
Please see Gaia. A question of style. The header ==Gaia in mythology== has a preceding "1". But I was always taught that you should never have a numerical heading of you're only going to have one of them. If this header is going to be preceded by a "1", shouldn't there be another header down below preceded by a "2"? Is there a way to remove the numerical prefix? RickK 01:17 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
End move
I side with Anthere in the edit war. Pizza Puzzle 01:57 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Perhaps we can relocate Gaia as an modern ecosystem personification to Gaïa, the spelling that Ant uses and presumably used, though not exclusively, in the modern Gaïan environmentalism? -- Menchi 02:03 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
what do you mean ? Please explain. Ant
But those are just different spellings of the same thing...This is a concept named for the Greek goddess. Pizza Puzzle
Unfortunately no, Menchi. These are the same name. You may also add Gaea, which is less often used, and never in the ecosystem theory I think. So...that won't help.:-( ant
Gaea is the spelling I am most familiar with; but its all the same thing. Pizza Puzzle
IMHO Gaia should focus on the mythological meaning of Gaia, since that was obviously the inspiration for Lovelock to name his hypothesis. However, given that Gaia is now primarily associated with the Gaia hypothesis and theory, these should both be briefly discussed in the intro. Perhaps the articles Gaia hypothesis and Gaia theory should also be merged into one. -- Eloquence 03:53 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Your rephrase of Gaia is ok to me.
However, merging gaia hypothesis with gaia theory will do no good. Gaia theory is no more about science. It is about social, political...aspects
The point in separating things is that if everything is merged in a whole big article, people will get lost between the scientific aspects of the theory (which rather deal with chemestry for Lovelock hypothesis).
There many different theories. It makes sense to have a specific article about the most famous one, under the name it is famous, which is gaia hypothesis. This said, a tip if you all want to drive me out of these articles, merge everything in one big article, which will be unreadable....and above 32ko :-)
I changed the claim that Gaia was a tripartite goddess, because there is much debate about whether the maiden/mother/crone idea was around before the 20th century. Tuf-Kat
(This user tells us that besides mythology, his other interest is Jack the Ripper, where, one hopes, he is culturally better equipped. "A little learning is a dangerous thing," Alexander Pope said: "Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring. There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." A look at the page History shows what has been subverted by this intoxicated brain who has apparently read one book, but can't recall its title... -- Wetman 22:01, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC))
Part of the point of a longer introduction before introducing subsections was to eliminate the big blank area that has been returned to this entry... -- Wetman 05:10, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Someone needs to add one, I'm no good at picking out pictures. JONJONAUG 16:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion Gaia is like vedic Mulaprakriti the principal of material, or, so to say "the soul of the element earth" and not the planet earth. I think, that a later degenerated culture the had lost the original meenings maked her mother earth, or the planet earth. aut. Tom Dorbeck
This section should be cleaned up and reworded significantly, with a little background on the significance of Gaia. It seems too inconsistent to someone (like me) not familiar with the context. (I couldn't understand anything for a long time). I feel it also lacks a good flow. -- Soumyasch 06:38, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
One thing I've been able to glean from reading various sections of Walter Burkert's Greek Religion is that when an ancient Greek god or goddess doesn't do much in mythology, they're usually important in religious rituals instead. The article should include a description of Gaia's significance in the context of ancient ritual, not just neopagan ceremonies. -- D.M. 69.248.116.112 03:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
...see also Ge from Γῆ
Take a look at the primordial deities table. Chronos and some other deities are missing. Nitro4ce 04:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Was Uranus created through parthenogenesis or with Aether? Or are there different sources stating different views? --jftsang 13:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
In the stats box to the right of the article, Uranus is listed as both Gaia's consort and child. I believe the child entry should be removed. Kwyjibear ( talk) 23:59, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't exactly know why, but this page has been vandalised at least five times last two weeks. It might be a little too early, but I'd like to propose a semi-prot if it keeps up in this pace... -- Bakabaka ( talk) 11:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
The following, re the self-indulgent insertion of "Gea" as if it were a correct spelling in English— which it is not— is copied here from User talk:Wetman Wetman ( talk) 10:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC):
I would like to suggest that not only does the section on Neopaganism need "additional citations for verification," but the other sections do as well. For example, "Interpretations" and "In other cultures." -- Lindamulder ( talk) 19:07, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
At the beginning of the third paragraph of the Neo-paganism section it states; "Some who worship Gaia attempt to get closer to Mother Earth by becoming unconcerned with material things and more in tune with nature.". Where is the source for this and what does it even mean? I would think if anything the worship of Gaia would foment an appreciation of material things. [The word material][ [1]] may even be etymologically related to the Latin Mater, or "Mother" (as in Terra Mater, Gaia's Roman equivalent). Lily20 ( talk) 19:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
At the beginning of the third paragraph of the Neo-paganism section it states; "Some who worship Gaia attempt to get closer to Mother Earth by becoming unconcerned with material things and more in tune with nature.". Where is the source for this and what does it even mean? I would think if anything the worship of Gaia would foment an appreciation of material things. The word material][ [2] may even be etymologically related to the Latin Mater, or "Mother" (as in Terra Mater, Gaia's Roman equivalent). Lily20 ( talk) 19:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Still confused by this. Lily20 ( talk) 22:23, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
That whole paragraph is very vague and contains no sources. Consider the sentence "Many sects worship Gaia, even more than worship Themis, Artemis, and Hera." for example. I am going to be bold and delete the paragraph. Lily20 ( talk) 22:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
In the beginning summary it states that that Gaia is a titan. Aren't the titans Gaia's children with Uranus? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.252.168 ( talk) 21:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
There are no references for the proposed etymology.If in Gaia the root ge is pre-greek and is combined with the proto-greek aia,then the same method could apply for the names of other gods as Uranos and Helios which are considered to be derived from PIE roots.Why the greeks used a local word for the earth,which they knew long ago?It is more possible that the root ge is connected with agricalture.(Sumerian Ki,Akkadian ge,Egyptian geb).In Minoan Creta propably deai meant barley.(Deo=Demeter).Elaia (olive) is a word of an Aegean language (perhaps Cretan).The etymologies of some greek words from PIE are sometimes controversial. Axosman ( talk) 13:53, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
The 'in other cultures' section was about the Earth Mother in general and not the Greek goddess in particular so I moved it to the Earth Mother article. This article is about a Greek goddess and modern usages of the name. Ekwos ( talk) 03:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The article says that "Some say that children marked with a * were born from Uranus' blood when Cronus defeated him." Who said that? A source is needed.
The list of children clearly combines a few sources. I'm fairly sure that it's not all Hesiod's or Homer's work. I wonder if it would be possible to put signs like $ or # next to each children based on who wrote about them in literature.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Like all religions, this is all a bunch of rubbish and fairy stories. Who made this all up? Who is the original author of this? I would like to see some facts that support any of the dogmatic assertions in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.11.248 ( talk) 12:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
The article asserts:
for which it cites Liddell-Scott. That struck me as odd, because the reference for the later "but this is debated" is the Online Etymology Dictionary which quotes Liddell-Scott as labeling this derivation "improbable".
Perseus apparently isn't working very well right now, but if you download the 1883 edition of Liddell-Scott from archive.org and look up "Δαμάτηρ", it informs you that this is a Doric vocative of "Δημήτηρ", and directs you to the entry on "Δα" for further discussion. Under "Δα" we find that the given derivation is as explained by anonymous scholia. Whether this was the view of "most scholars" even in Liddell and Scott's day isn't clear, but even if it were, they were writing in 1882, and this reference cannot be used to support a claim of scholarly consensus today. Liddell and Scott also take care to cite Ahrens (de Dialecto Dorica, p. 80) to the contrary, and at considerable length. We are evidently not to agree with the traditional etymology. We are left with no reliable references for this being even a possible etymology, let alone probable. 192.91.172.42 ( talk) 10:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
The linked Perseus version of LS also just refers to the scholia. In any case, I'm pretty certain that the 'most scholars' claim is just wrong (and that Demeter's own page accurately summarises the debate as to the etymology), so I've removed it. There does seem to be another issue though: why are we discussing the etymology of Demeter here? Presumably we're reaching towards (but don't quite make) a claim that Demeter can be identified with Gaia, but such a claim wouldn't really belong in a section on the etymology of Gaia. I'm somewhat inclined to delete the whole paragraph. Havelock Jones ( talk) 01:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok: no-one's responded to my previous comment, so I'm going to go ahead and delete the section. Only the first sentence is on-topic, and that just replicates information stated in the lead. If anybody has anything interesting and relevant to say about the etymology, feel free to reinstate the section. Havelock Jones ( talk) 19:09, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
On second thoughts, that was probably a bit too drastic, and violated WP:Conserve. I've reinstated the section with the two sentences which are potentially on topic, and also added back the 'ma-ka' citation I previously removed from the lead. I don't understand why 'ma-ka' is said be "transliterated as Ma-Ga", when it's been written as 'ma-ka', and I doubt that "Mother Gaia" can be a good translation, as Gaia is simply a Greek word for Earth. However, that is what the source says. Havelock Jones ( talk) 20:23, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
User:Machine Elf 1735 has just cut most of the content from the section on Neopaganism, which may well be fair enough, as it has been flagged as needing citations for nearly 6 years. However, I can't help thinking that the section as it now stands is too short. Perhaps it should be merged into Interpretations, and that section could be renamed as Gaia in modern culture? Also, I've copied the old section below, in case anyone wants to dig up references.
Many Neopagans actively worship Gaia. Beliefs regarding Gaia vary, ranging from the common Wiccan belief that Gaia is the Earth (or in some cases the spiritual embodiment of the earth, or the Goddess of the Earth), to the broader Neopagan belief that Gaia is the goddess of all creation, a Mother Goddess from which all other gods spring. Gaia is sometimes thought to embody the planets and the Earth, and sometimes thought to embody the entire universe. Worship of Gaia is varied, ranging from prostration to druidic ritual. Unlike Zeus, a roving nomad god of the open sky, Gaia was manifest in enclosed spaces: the house, the courtyard, the womb, the cave. Her sacred animals are the serpent, the lunar bull, the pig, and bees. In her hand the narcotic poppy may be transmuted to a pomegranate.
Havelock Jones ( talk) 15:32, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Cause the introduction is in past tense. Zeus seems to be alive. Darsie42 ( talk) 11:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
She was the goddess or personification of the Earth in the ancient Greek religion. I believe that's the usual way of referring to figures in historical religions; certainly that's how most modern sources refer to her. It's inherent to the nature of the Wikipedia that we can't adopt a completely consistent style over all articles. Havelock Jones ( talk) 17:33, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Can somebody with the power to do so please revert the article to its state as of 27th January? 176.225.54.31 has made some rather peculiar edits swapping the names of Kronos and Uranus, which was partially fixed by 76.187.96.84, and then there were some intervening edits regarding the title of the picture, and I'd rather not go through the article by hand. Incidentally, the picture title has been edited several times. I think the issue is that we're using the spelling 'Gaia' in the article, but the artist spelt it 'Gaea', so should we retain that spelling as the title of the picture? Havelock Jones ( talk) 21:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
She [Gaia (Earth)] bore also, besides the goddess Nymphai, the fruitless deep with his [the fruitless deep’s] raging swell, Pontos (Sea), without sweet union of love (without the sweet union of Eros). -Theogony 115 In this we "appear" to have an "inkling" of five elements (earth, air, fire, water, and love): (1) Earth (Gaia; Gaea), (2) Air (Ouranos; Uranus) [Gaea with Uranus giving birth to, all of the seven, Oceanus, Tethys, Cronus, Rhea, Coeus, Phoebe, and Iapetus], (3) Fire (Tartaros; Tartarus) [Gaea with Tartarus giving birth to Typhoeus (according to Hesiod), Typhon and Ekhidna (Echidna)--according to Apollodorus 1.39 & 2.4, and the Gigantes (according to Hyginus' Preface) and the Telekhines (Telchines) according to the Bacchylides Fragment, (4) Water (Pontus) [Gaea with Pontus giving birth to, all of the four, Nereus, Thaumas, Phorcys and Ceto], and (5) Love (Eros) [Sappho, Fragment 198 (from Scholiast on Apollonius of Rhodes) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric I) (C6th B.C.) : "Sappho makes Eros child of Ge (Earth) and Ouranos (Heaven)."]. Earth, then, has "incestuously" had children with "three" of her sons and, possibly, her grandson (Eros). [For more indepth study, refer to: http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Gaia.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Ouranos.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Tartaros.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Pontos.html, and http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Eros.html. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.198.51 ( talk) 19:53, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
– As per long but unanimous discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion#Disambiguations of divinities, there is a significant POV in regarding present day faiths as "religions" etc. but also regarding previous or less regularly practiced forms of faith as myth. Greg Kaye 16:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Categorising a story as a myth does not necessarily imply that it is untrue. Religion and mythology differ, but have overlapping aspects. Many English speakers understand the terms "myth" and "mythology" to mean fictitious or imaginary. However, according to many dictionary definitions, these terms can also mean a traditional story or narrative that embodies the belief or beliefs of a group of people, and this Wikipedia category should be understood in this sense only. The use of these terms in this category does not imply that any story so categorized is historically true or false or that any belief so embodied is itself either true or false.
I think this imposes a bias where none existed before. The religion wikiproject has basically unilaterally decided that mythology belongs to them, and the only valid point of view from which to study mythology is a religious one. Those of us interested in the historical, anthropological, artistic and literary aspects of traditional storytelling are apparently wrong and can just pack up and go home.
I think that the problem here goes far beyond a mere #Expression of doubt but that the usage goes as far as to WP:ASSERT falsity when the same stance is not adopted with present day faiths. See the articles Creation myth (which I am not necessarily arguing against) and Genesis creation narrative for examples of this.
it opens door wider for abuse, and the comment about destroying ancient archaeological sites, if this is a reference to ISIL's destruction of ancient Assyrian artifacts (I know that ISIL-related things are an interest of yours), the expression "not even in the same ballpark" is such an understatement as to be wholly wanting. It is in a building thousands of miles away from the ballpark that isn't designed for any sport at all. What's going on there is not because of how things are phrased here on the English Wikipedia. I don't think it would be putting words in anyone's mouth to suggest that the editors opposing your suggestions are doing so because they like and respect ancient cultures, not because they don't. Egsan Bacon ( talk) 23:29, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Paul August of course it is a issue pertaining to religion. Gaia was religiously regarded as a goddess while Mars, Saturn and Uranus were all religiously regarded as gods. Please consider results from scholar:
Searches in the web in general on one of the figures gave a similar pattern of results. The combined references to similar figures of, for instance, Ancient Greek mythology / Ancient Greek religion as goddesses, gods and deities far outstrips their unfortunately prejudging references of the pertaining to mythology. I honestly thought that this kind of move would be a no brainer. Greg Kaye 07:52, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Support: I have no sympathy for the POV argument, but I don't think it is appropriate for deities to be disambiguated with (mythology) because most of them have an existence beyond mythology - some of them (e.g. Victoria (mythology)) have no mythological existence whatsoever. Gaia and Uranus are admittedly probably the characters for whom this argument is weakest, but the rest should change and it seems that having both (mythology) and (god/goddess/deity) will require case by case debates about whether a given character is solely mythological or not. Furius ( talk) 18:33, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
This move discussion seems to be part of a larger program to discredit the term "mytholgy" and replace it with the term "religion". See for example these two discussions:
which wants to add the terms "myth" and "mythology" to "words to watch" in WP:LABEL, and
about with these:
Apparently, as part of this program, there has been the systematic replacement of " Greek mythology" with " ancient Greek religion'" in many articles, so for example: this edit (to this articel) [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] and as there seem to be many more like these. I think that these edits need to be identified, examined and possibly reverted. Paul August ☎ 15:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Religion and mythology differ but have overlapping aspect", I would still like to propose a great many tons of masonry and a plethora of artefacts as evidence that there is a lot more to these subjects than can be solely categorised as "mythology". As you note, in the article Ancient Greek religion we see that mythology is a smaller component of the larger religion. Surely your content indicates support. Greg Kaye 16:11, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Quote: "Gaia's voice is heard throughout the first God of War, voiced by Linda hunt, telling the story of the main character's, Kratos, journey from Spartan general all the way through to his becoming the new god of war. She also appears in God of War 2 and helps Kratos get out of Hades and on his way to exacting revenge against Zeus" - What is this paragraph doing in the references section? I propose to delete it if nobody objects. Watasenia 19:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok what you say is right and really but from the game play Kratos Killed all Gods in his searching to revenge for Zeus , He win. He will kill the Gods,and Zeus God of Thunder but he will kill Gaia too I really don't know why. Because Gaia was wanting to kill him or because on his mad he throw Zeus in Gaia's heart ,Kratos escapes but Gaia die with Zeus on his heart. 10:57 14 Aprill 2010 —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Northred (
talk •
contribs)
07:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate to insert between the names of the children of Gaia, instead of two hyphens? Because name lists are exactly what serial commas are used for. The hyphen makes it look like the first listed child give birth to the second, and the third. -- Menchi 04:39 14 Jun 2003 (UTC)
A question of style. The header ==Gaia in mythology== has a preceding "1". But I was always taught that you should never have a numerical heading of you're only going to have one of them. If this header is going to be preceded by a "1", shouldn't there be another header down below preceded by a "2"? Is there a way to remove the numerical prefix? RickK 01:16 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Moved from Village Pump
Please see Gaia. A question of style. The header ==Gaia in mythology== has a preceding "1". But I was always taught that you should never have a numerical heading of you're only going to have one of them. If this header is going to be preceded by a "1", shouldn't there be another header down below preceded by a "2"? Is there a way to remove the numerical prefix? RickK 01:17 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
End move
I side with Anthere in the edit war. Pizza Puzzle 01:57 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Perhaps we can relocate Gaia as an modern ecosystem personification to Gaïa, the spelling that Ant uses and presumably used, though not exclusively, in the modern Gaïan environmentalism? -- Menchi 02:03 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
what do you mean ? Please explain. Ant
But those are just different spellings of the same thing...This is a concept named for the Greek goddess. Pizza Puzzle
Unfortunately no, Menchi. These are the same name. You may also add Gaea, which is less often used, and never in the ecosystem theory I think. So...that won't help.:-( ant
Gaea is the spelling I am most familiar with; but its all the same thing. Pizza Puzzle
IMHO Gaia should focus on the mythological meaning of Gaia, since that was obviously the inspiration for Lovelock to name his hypothesis. However, given that Gaia is now primarily associated with the Gaia hypothesis and theory, these should both be briefly discussed in the intro. Perhaps the articles Gaia hypothesis and Gaia theory should also be merged into one. -- Eloquence 03:53 29 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Your rephrase of Gaia is ok to me.
However, merging gaia hypothesis with gaia theory will do no good. Gaia theory is no more about science. It is about social, political...aspects
The point in separating things is that if everything is merged in a whole big article, people will get lost between the scientific aspects of the theory (which rather deal with chemestry for Lovelock hypothesis).
There many different theories. It makes sense to have a specific article about the most famous one, under the name it is famous, which is gaia hypothesis. This said, a tip if you all want to drive me out of these articles, merge everything in one big article, which will be unreadable....and above 32ko :-)
I changed the claim that Gaia was a tripartite goddess, because there is much debate about whether the maiden/mother/crone idea was around before the 20th century. Tuf-Kat
(This user tells us that besides mythology, his other interest is Jack the Ripper, where, one hopes, he is culturally better equipped. "A little learning is a dangerous thing," Alexander Pope said: "Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring. There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again." A look at the page History shows what has been subverted by this intoxicated brain who has apparently read one book, but can't recall its title... -- Wetman 22:01, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC))
Part of the point of a longer introduction before introducing subsections was to eliminate the big blank area that has been returned to this entry... -- Wetman 05:10, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Someone needs to add one, I'm no good at picking out pictures. JONJONAUG 16:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion Gaia is like vedic Mulaprakriti the principal of material, or, so to say "the soul of the element earth" and not the planet earth. I think, that a later degenerated culture the had lost the original meenings maked her mother earth, or the planet earth. aut. Tom Dorbeck
This section should be cleaned up and reworded significantly, with a little background on the significance of Gaia. It seems too inconsistent to someone (like me) not familiar with the context. (I couldn't understand anything for a long time). I feel it also lacks a good flow. -- Soumyasch 06:38, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
One thing I've been able to glean from reading various sections of Walter Burkert's Greek Religion is that when an ancient Greek god or goddess doesn't do much in mythology, they're usually important in religious rituals instead. The article should include a description of Gaia's significance in the context of ancient ritual, not just neopagan ceremonies. -- D.M. 69.248.116.112 03:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
...see also Ge from Γῆ
Take a look at the primordial deities table. Chronos and some other deities are missing. Nitro4ce 04:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Was Uranus created through parthenogenesis or with Aether? Or are there different sources stating different views? --jftsang 13:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
In the stats box to the right of the article, Uranus is listed as both Gaia's consort and child. I believe the child entry should be removed. Kwyjibear ( talk) 23:59, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't exactly know why, but this page has been vandalised at least five times last two weeks. It might be a little too early, but I'd like to propose a semi-prot if it keeps up in this pace... -- Bakabaka ( talk) 11:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
The following, re the self-indulgent insertion of "Gea" as if it were a correct spelling in English— which it is not— is copied here from User talk:Wetman Wetman ( talk) 10:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC):
I would like to suggest that not only does the section on Neopaganism need "additional citations for verification," but the other sections do as well. For example, "Interpretations" and "In other cultures." -- Lindamulder ( talk) 19:07, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
At the beginning of the third paragraph of the Neo-paganism section it states; "Some who worship Gaia attempt to get closer to Mother Earth by becoming unconcerned with material things and more in tune with nature.". Where is the source for this and what does it even mean? I would think if anything the worship of Gaia would foment an appreciation of material things. [The word material][ [1]] may even be etymologically related to the Latin Mater, or "Mother" (as in Terra Mater, Gaia's Roman equivalent). Lily20 ( talk) 19:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
At the beginning of the third paragraph of the Neo-paganism section it states; "Some who worship Gaia attempt to get closer to Mother Earth by becoming unconcerned with material things and more in tune with nature.". Where is the source for this and what does it even mean? I would think if anything the worship of Gaia would foment an appreciation of material things. The word material][ [2] may even be etymologically related to the Latin Mater, or "Mother" (as in Terra Mater, Gaia's Roman equivalent). Lily20 ( talk) 19:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Still confused by this. Lily20 ( talk) 22:23, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
That whole paragraph is very vague and contains no sources. Consider the sentence "Many sects worship Gaia, even more than worship Themis, Artemis, and Hera." for example. I am going to be bold and delete the paragraph. Lily20 ( talk) 22:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
In the beginning summary it states that that Gaia is a titan. Aren't the titans Gaia's children with Uranus? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.252.168 ( talk) 21:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
There are no references for the proposed etymology.If in Gaia the root ge is pre-greek and is combined with the proto-greek aia,then the same method could apply for the names of other gods as Uranos and Helios which are considered to be derived from PIE roots.Why the greeks used a local word for the earth,which they knew long ago?It is more possible that the root ge is connected with agricalture.(Sumerian Ki,Akkadian ge,Egyptian geb).In Minoan Creta propably deai meant barley.(Deo=Demeter).Elaia (olive) is a word of an Aegean language (perhaps Cretan).The etymologies of some greek words from PIE are sometimes controversial. Axosman ( talk) 13:53, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
The 'in other cultures' section was about the Earth Mother in general and not the Greek goddess in particular so I moved it to the Earth Mother article. This article is about a Greek goddess and modern usages of the name. Ekwos ( talk) 03:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The article says that "Some say that children marked with a * were born from Uranus' blood when Cronus defeated him." Who said that? A source is needed.
The list of children clearly combines a few sources. I'm fairly sure that it's not all Hesiod's or Homer's work. I wonder if it would be possible to put signs like $ or # next to each children based on who wrote about them in literature.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Like all religions, this is all a bunch of rubbish and fairy stories. Who made this all up? Who is the original author of this? I would like to see some facts that support any of the dogmatic assertions in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.11.248 ( talk) 12:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
The article asserts:
for which it cites Liddell-Scott. That struck me as odd, because the reference for the later "but this is debated" is the Online Etymology Dictionary which quotes Liddell-Scott as labeling this derivation "improbable".
Perseus apparently isn't working very well right now, but if you download the 1883 edition of Liddell-Scott from archive.org and look up "Δαμάτηρ", it informs you that this is a Doric vocative of "Δημήτηρ", and directs you to the entry on "Δα" for further discussion. Under "Δα" we find that the given derivation is as explained by anonymous scholia. Whether this was the view of "most scholars" even in Liddell and Scott's day isn't clear, but even if it were, they were writing in 1882, and this reference cannot be used to support a claim of scholarly consensus today. Liddell and Scott also take care to cite Ahrens (de Dialecto Dorica, p. 80) to the contrary, and at considerable length. We are evidently not to agree with the traditional etymology. We are left with no reliable references for this being even a possible etymology, let alone probable. 192.91.172.42 ( talk) 10:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
The linked Perseus version of LS also just refers to the scholia. In any case, I'm pretty certain that the 'most scholars' claim is just wrong (and that Demeter's own page accurately summarises the debate as to the etymology), so I've removed it. There does seem to be another issue though: why are we discussing the etymology of Demeter here? Presumably we're reaching towards (but don't quite make) a claim that Demeter can be identified with Gaia, but such a claim wouldn't really belong in a section on the etymology of Gaia. I'm somewhat inclined to delete the whole paragraph. Havelock Jones ( talk) 01:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Ok: no-one's responded to my previous comment, so I'm going to go ahead and delete the section. Only the first sentence is on-topic, and that just replicates information stated in the lead. If anybody has anything interesting and relevant to say about the etymology, feel free to reinstate the section. Havelock Jones ( talk) 19:09, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
On second thoughts, that was probably a bit too drastic, and violated WP:Conserve. I've reinstated the section with the two sentences which are potentially on topic, and also added back the 'ma-ka' citation I previously removed from the lead. I don't understand why 'ma-ka' is said be "transliterated as Ma-Ga", when it's been written as 'ma-ka', and I doubt that "Mother Gaia" can be a good translation, as Gaia is simply a Greek word for Earth. However, that is what the source says. Havelock Jones ( talk) 20:23, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
User:Machine Elf 1735 has just cut most of the content from the section on Neopaganism, which may well be fair enough, as it has been flagged as needing citations for nearly 6 years. However, I can't help thinking that the section as it now stands is too short. Perhaps it should be merged into Interpretations, and that section could be renamed as Gaia in modern culture? Also, I've copied the old section below, in case anyone wants to dig up references.
Many Neopagans actively worship Gaia. Beliefs regarding Gaia vary, ranging from the common Wiccan belief that Gaia is the Earth (or in some cases the spiritual embodiment of the earth, or the Goddess of the Earth), to the broader Neopagan belief that Gaia is the goddess of all creation, a Mother Goddess from which all other gods spring. Gaia is sometimes thought to embody the planets and the Earth, and sometimes thought to embody the entire universe. Worship of Gaia is varied, ranging from prostration to druidic ritual. Unlike Zeus, a roving nomad god of the open sky, Gaia was manifest in enclosed spaces: the house, the courtyard, the womb, the cave. Her sacred animals are the serpent, the lunar bull, the pig, and bees. In her hand the narcotic poppy may be transmuted to a pomegranate.
Havelock Jones ( talk) 15:32, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Cause the introduction is in past tense. Zeus seems to be alive. Darsie42 ( talk) 11:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
She was the goddess or personification of the Earth in the ancient Greek religion. I believe that's the usual way of referring to figures in historical religions; certainly that's how most modern sources refer to her. It's inherent to the nature of the Wikipedia that we can't adopt a completely consistent style over all articles. Havelock Jones ( talk) 17:33, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Can somebody with the power to do so please revert the article to its state as of 27th January? 176.225.54.31 has made some rather peculiar edits swapping the names of Kronos and Uranus, which was partially fixed by 76.187.96.84, and then there were some intervening edits regarding the title of the picture, and I'd rather not go through the article by hand. Incidentally, the picture title has been edited several times. I think the issue is that we're using the spelling 'Gaia' in the article, but the artist spelt it 'Gaea', so should we retain that spelling as the title of the picture? Havelock Jones ( talk) 21:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
She [Gaia (Earth)] bore also, besides the goddess Nymphai, the fruitless deep with his [the fruitless deep’s] raging swell, Pontos (Sea), without sweet union of love (without the sweet union of Eros). -Theogony 115 In this we "appear" to have an "inkling" of five elements (earth, air, fire, water, and love): (1) Earth (Gaia; Gaea), (2) Air (Ouranos; Uranus) [Gaea with Uranus giving birth to, all of the seven, Oceanus, Tethys, Cronus, Rhea, Coeus, Phoebe, and Iapetus], (3) Fire (Tartaros; Tartarus) [Gaea with Tartarus giving birth to Typhoeus (according to Hesiod), Typhon and Ekhidna (Echidna)--according to Apollodorus 1.39 & 2.4, and the Gigantes (according to Hyginus' Preface) and the Telekhines (Telchines) according to the Bacchylides Fragment, (4) Water (Pontus) [Gaea with Pontus giving birth to, all of the four, Nereus, Thaumas, Phorcys and Ceto], and (5) Love (Eros) [Sappho, Fragment 198 (from Scholiast on Apollonius of Rhodes) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric I) (C6th B.C.) : "Sappho makes Eros child of Ge (Earth) and Ouranos (Heaven)."]. Earth, then, has "incestuously" had children with "three" of her sons and, possibly, her grandson (Eros). [For more indepth study, refer to: http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Gaia.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Ouranos.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Tartaros.html, http://www.theoi.com/Protogenos/Pontos.html, and http://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Eros.html. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.198.51 ( talk) 19:53, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
– As per long but unanimous discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion#Disambiguations of divinities, there is a significant POV in regarding present day faiths as "religions" etc. but also regarding previous or less regularly practiced forms of faith as myth. Greg Kaye 16:30, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Categorising a story as a myth does not necessarily imply that it is untrue. Religion and mythology differ, but have overlapping aspects. Many English speakers understand the terms "myth" and "mythology" to mean fictitious or imaginary. However, according to many dictionary definitions, these terms can also mean a traditional story or narrative that embodies the belief or beliefs of a group of people, and this Wikipedia category should be understood in this sense only. The use of these terms in this category does not imply that any story so categorized is historically true or false or that any belief so embodied is itself either true or false.
I think this imposes a bias where none existed before. The religion wikiproject has basically unilaterally decided that mythology belongs to them, and the only valid point of view from which to study mythology is a religious one. Those of us interested in the historical, anthropological, artistic and literary aspects of traditional storytelling are apparently wrong and can just pack up and go home.
I think that the problem here goes far beyond a mere #Expression of doubt but that the usage goes as far as to WP:ASSERT falsity when the same stance is not adopted with present day faiths. See the articles Creation myth (which I am not necessarily arguing against) and Genesis creation narrative for examples of this.
it opens door wider for abuse, and the comment about destroying ancient archaeological sites, if this is a reference to ISIL's destruction of ancient Assyrian artifacts (I know that ISIL-related things are an interest of yours), the expression "not even in the same ballpark" is such an understatement as to be wholly wanting. It is in a building thousands of miles away from the ballpark that isn't designed for any sport at all. What's going on there is not because of how things are phrased here on the English Wikipedia. I don't think it would be putting words in anyone's mouth to suggest that the editors opposing your suggestions are doing so because they like and respect ancient cultures, not because they don't. Egsan Bacon ( talk) 23:29, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Paul August of course it is a issue pertaining to religion. Gaia was religiously regarded as a goddess while Mars, Saturn and Uranus were all religiously regarded as gods. Please consider results from scholar:
Searches in the web in general on one of the figures gave a similar pattern of results. The combined references to similar figures of, for instance, Ancient Greek mythology / Ancient Greek religion as goddesses, gods and deities far outstrips their unfortunately prejudging references of the pertaining to mythology. I honestly thought that this kind of move would be a no brainer. Greg Kaye 07:52, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Support: I have no sympathy for the POV argument, but I don't think it is appropriate for deities to be disambiguated with (mythology) because most of them have an existence beyond mythology - some of them (e.g. Victoria (mythology)) have no mythological existence whatsoever. Gaia and Uranus are admittedly probably the characters for whom this argument is weakest, but the rest should change and it seems that having both (mythology) and (god/goddess/deity) will require case by case debates about whether a given character is solely mythological or not. Furius ( talk) 18:33, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
This move discussion seems to be part of a larger program to discredit the term "mytholgy" and replace it with the term "religion". See for example these two discussions:
which wants to add the terms "myth" and "mythology" to "words to watch" in WP:LABEL, and
about with these:
Apparently, as part of this program, there has been the systematic replacement of " Greek mythology" with " ancient Greek religion'" in many articles, so for example: this edit (to this articel) [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] and as there seem to be many more like these. I think that these edits need to be identified, examined and possibly reverted. Paul August ☎ 15:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Religion and mythology differ but have overlapping aspect", I would still like to propose a great many tons of masonry and a plethora of artefacts as evidence that there is a lot more to these subjects than can be solely categorised as "mythology". As you note, in the article Ancient Greek religion we see that mythology is a smaller component of the larger religion. Surely your content indicates support. Greg Kaye 16:11, 20 March 2015 (UTC)