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Bold textNO MENTION of the fact that this province flies the oldest flag still in use today. This is a varifiable claim and an improtant one
good article! 0-0 -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 16:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
The dutch article on this province is much better than the english version. Is there any way to translate it?
I'll spend some time picking out pieces from the Dutch that are clearly missing in the English. Not sure an out and out translation is worth the time time though jdevries 00:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Friesland was the first to acknowledge the independence of America's Thirteen Colonies from the United Kingdom.
I'm Frisian but have never heard of this, does anyone know the deal about it? -- I for one think its bull. Fact is that The Netherlands(in there then current form), Acknowleged it as a whole state.
And thats not the only bull in the article.
My 2 cents
I suggest moving the article to Fryslân, since that is the official name of the province. Perhaps Friesland could replace Friesland (disambiguation). -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 19:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The official website of the Province of Fryslân says Fryslân because they have a choice: Friesland or Fryslân. Being the official site of the province, they understandably opt for Fryslân. That's their reasoning. Being a province of The Netherlands, Friesland is the official Dutch name.-- Willem Huberts 17:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Frisia clearly is an English exonym for Friesland / Fryslân. That the word also has a wider meaning is irrelevant. Both other words have wider meanings too. What is official is also irrelevant. I suppose Friesland could be used as well if it is a commonly used name in English for the province. I doubt very much however that "Fryslân" is an English exonym or even en English word. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Since this is the English Wiki, why won't we put Frisia and Friesland together, or so??
The article should be named Frisia, because that is the right (English) exonym for the Dutch word Friesland. NOW, we have 2 almost similar articles. Idea??
Fc turner 18:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Ow, by the way: the official Dutch name of the province changed in 1997 to Fryslân. Friesland is still what we use/speak on the street as Dutch people, but officially it was changed. So I figured that the article Friesland should become a REDIRECT to Frisia. And that also goes for the article Fryslân.
Anyone aware that we momentally have 3 articles about one piece of land?? It really has three names: Fryslân (endonym, Frisian language), Friesland (exonym, Dutch language), Frisia (exonym, English language). We should use the English word, for this IS the English Wiki. I think those are really good arguments...
Friesland is not the same as Frisia, as correctly stated above by Kening Aldgilles. So putting the two together is not an option. Concerning Friesland/Fryslân, I would suggest making Fryslân the main entry and Friesland a redirect, since Fryslân is the official name of the Dutch province and has been since 1997. Hope this helps. WanderingSpirit 20:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I would like to reopen this discussion. I agree that historic region of greater Frisia is something else as the current dutch province of Friesland. Only the correct name in dutch for what is now named Frisia is also Friesland! The point is that in dutch Friesland is not the same as Friesland. There's the historic region of Frisia (Friesland in dutch) and the current dutch province of Friesland (also Friesland in dutch). On the dutch wikipedia they also struggled with this issue ( http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg:Groter-Friesland). Page names for what's the dutch version of what's Frisia on the English wikipedia went from names as "Friesland in bredere zin"(Frisia in a broader sense) to eventually Groter-Friesland (Greater Frisia), to distinct it from the province of friesland, wich is the more known meaning in dutch (common usage). The thing is that Friesland is the name for the greater region in dutch, and for the province, two things, same name. Compare it to Province of Brabant until 1995 a province of belgium, which shouldn't be confused with the historic Duchy of Brabant, and there's also North Brabant in the Netherlands, just as there is East Frisia which isn't named East Friesland (german name is ostfriesland, dutch name is Oost Friesland, ost and oost meaning East of course) either. This is the same situation as with brabant, only here the english word happens to differ from the dutch word. The solution that is used on the english wikipedia is artificial in opinion, the correct translation of the dutch Friesland is Frisia, because the correct translation of the english Frisia to dutch is Friesland! There are more places that are distinctive, but have the same name, take for example Utrecht and Utrecht (province). Two distinctive areas, but closely related because of one being inside the other, is not that rare. Using the dutch word for one and the english for the other to solve that is artificial, if there's no difference in names in dutch, and Friesland is clearly a dutch word and not a english one, why would we use the dutch word, just to distinguish it from something with the same name?
That's why I propose:
now grumpy people, start your protests! thug_n_g 23:29, 15 September 2011 (CEST)
This artcile shows the province's ISO 3166-2 code as "NL-FY". Every other source that I can find gives it as "NL-FR". Having remembered the ISO codes, I have changed my view slightly - the English version of Wikipedia should echo the official English language ISO 3166-2 name for the province. As far as I can see, this is "Friesland", though if somebody can find an up-to-date reference for the ISO 3166-2 code, I am willing to accept that. Martinvl ( talk) 21:30, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Please do not merge the article Friesland into Frisia, it is not the same. We cannot do this, because the history of Frisia is not the history of the province Friesland. Then you can merge the article into East-Frisia or Groningen as well. So if its only the history of the province Friesland (according Dutch nationalists), this would be discrimination towards other former Frisian regions. I haven't seen one good reason so far for merging this article into the province Friesland, so please reject this proposal.
Eugène van der Pijll wrote that the official name doesn't matter, excuse me?! The official name is Fryslân, that is the common name used in the European Union, every Dutch ministry (including forreign affairs!) and the province itself. The moderators are the best persons to decide which name is correct. Should be the regionally, nationally and international recognized names, Fryslân.
I recognize this discussion from the Greek nationalists concerning the Macedonian articles.
Kind regards, Kening Aldgilles 10 apr 07, 20:22 CET
Fryslan boppe, benne; i've moved it... -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 05:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Fryslân is official, but it's not an English (or a Dutch) word. Not every Dutch ministery uses Fryslân b.t.w. because it's simply not a Dutch word and can be translated. Only the Interior ministery uses it. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 18:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
How about a Wikiproject dedicated to the Frisians? -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 07:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Does such a project excist? May I join it? Please, give me some directions. -The Bold Guy- 15:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds okay. But not as a sub-Project. In a world, were even tv and book-series get there own projects, I think the Frisian people deserve a project of their own! Is there something of project allready, then please give me some directions! -The Bold Guy- 17:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I dunno if I can get that many interested people to volunteer, but what I can recommend you to do, is to watch the category:Frisian wikipedians (from those who carry the template, and ask them. When you'd do that, I think you can get enough volunteers to run the project, don't you agree? -The Bold Guy- ( talk) 16:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is still in a very poor state, as it focuses almost exclusively on the Frisian language, as though nothing else ever happened in the province. Notwithstanding, I should like to add to the section comparing English and Frisian that Frisian syntax and vocabulary bear a closer resemblance to the neighbouring Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands than to Standard Dutch. I've noticed this through personal observation, but I'll only add this info when I find a source confirming it. Ni'jluuseger ( talk) 00:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, Saxon and Frisian were obviously closely related back in the Middle Ages, both of them being regarded as Lower German. But that goes for Lower Franconian (the more direct ancestor of Dutch) as well. The Groningan variety of Saxon has a potent Frisian substrate, because in the Groningen countryside Frisian was spoken until about the 15th century. The same goes for East-Frisia in Germany. In a way that substrate could also be present (in a lesser strong form) in the dialect of Holland, where a form of Lower-Franconian took over from a more sparse population of Frisian speakers centuries earlier. I doubt that the "non Groningan" varieties of Lower-Saxon resemble Frisian as much as Groningan does. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a history section.
Does any one know what the 'heart' shapes on the flag are, or represent? They seem quite an unusual feature. They also appear on the inter-Friesian flag, in the this article: West_Friesland_(region)
Those seven water lily leaves are representing 7 parts of Fryslân (or more accuratly Frisia), called the "Sân seelannen" (seven sealands) accoording to a site with the same name on Wikipedia in the Frisian language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.70.218.130 ( talk) 22:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
It might be interesting to note here that the name "Friesen" is a very common surname in the Dutch/Russian/Mexican Mennonite community. 24.57.249.250 ( talk) 13:14, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
Legend has it from the Norse mythology of "Asgard" to 13th century navigational maps that in the North Atlantic lied a sunken continent by the name "Friesland", but it is uncertain the Frisian people were descendants of those islanders whom were displaced by the sinking of the continent thousands of years ago. + 71.102.11.193 ( talk) 04:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Would user:Triomio please revert the change of name in this article or provide a justification for the change - the discussion last December ended with two editors wanting to keep the name Friesland and one wanting to change it to Frisia - ie a majority to keep the status quo which is cetainly not a consensus for change. I did a Google search on the word "Frisia" and there was nothign to suggest that "Frisia" is the English translation of the Dutch province "Fryslâ" (or "Friesland"). Martinvl ( talk) 06:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There are several entities called Friesland (Dutch, German)/Frisia (Latin, English). How about naming this article at least Friesland (province) to give at least some better arrangement?
The terms are used as synonyms inside Wikipedia for these articles:
Would it be more consistent to do that with Frisia and Friesland too and to not offer completely different topics under the often synonymous names Frisia and Friesland? Triomio ( talk) 19:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC) - History example added Triomio ( talk) 03:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
The terms - or the adjective form of Frisia - are used as synonyms at other places:
Evidence for "Province of Frisia"
Triomio ( talk) 20:13, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I have noticed that in chapter 6.1 it states that frisian is the only other official language in the netherlands. However if i look at the official government website about recognized languages I see that it is not that simple as in the article
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/erkende-talen/talen-in-nederland
21:33, 31 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.93.146.234 ( talk)
Here are some suggested improvements:
Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 00:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
The 2010 population density is incorrect: 646,305 people / 5749 square km = 112 people per square km, not 190, and 646,305 people / 2220 square miles = 291 people per square mile, not 490.
Errors this large may be indicators of other problems with calculation or consistency. It's a very interesting article with great potential. Thanks all for your hard work. Jackaroodave ( talk) 20:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
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The list of Municipalities is very outdated. Current situation: https://www.fryslan.frl/document.php?m=7&fileid=56932&f=d93f7569f6e2ca8b7bb24c4ef0a9405f&attachment=0. Can someone with more time available than me update the list, including population, area etc? PDZ124169 ( talk) 11:40, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
In the section Culture under Language: "Friesland is one of the twelve provinces of the Netherlands to have its national language that is recognized as such, West Frisian." What does this mean? Wikifan153 ( talk) 14:41, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Dante Alighieri was not early Renaissance, he was deep in the middle ages. 91.141.47.7 ( talk) 07:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
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Bold textNO MENTION of the fact that this province flies the oldest flag still in use today. This is a varifiable claim and an improtant one
good article! 0-0 -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 16:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
The dutch article on this province is much better than the english version. Is there any way to translate it?
I'll spend some time picking out pieces from the Dutch that are clearly missing in the English. Not sure an out and out translation is worth the time time though jdevries 00:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Friesland was the first to acknowledge the independence of America's Thirteen Colonies from the United Kingdom.
I'm Frisian but have never heard of this, does anyone know the deal about it? -- I for one think its bull. Fact is that The Netherlands(in there then current form), Acknowleged it as a whole state.
And thats not the only bull in the article.
My 2 cents
I suggest moving the article to Fryslân, since that is the official name of the province. Perhaps Friesland could replace Friesland (disambiguation). -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 19:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
The official website of the Province of Fryslân says Fryslân because they have a choice: Friesland or Fryslân. Being the official site of the province, they understandably opt for Fryslân. That's their reasoning. Being a province of The Netherlands, Friesland is the official Dutch name.-- Willem Huberts 17:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Frisia clearly is an English exonym for Friesland / Fryslân. That the word also has a wider meaning is irrelevant. Both other words have wider meanings too. What is official is also irrelevant. I suppose Friesland could be used as well if it is a commonly used name in English for the province. I doubt very much however that "Fryslân" is an English exonym or even en English word. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Since this is the English Wiki, why won't we put Frisia and Friesland together, or so??
The article should be named Frisia, because that is the right (English) exonym for the Dutch word Friesland. NOW, we have 2 almost similar articles. Idea??
Fc turner 18:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Ow, by the way: the official Dutch name of the province changed in 1997 to Fryslân. Friesland is still what we use/speak on the street as Dutch people, but officially it was changed. So I figured that the article Friesland should become a REDIRECT to Frisia. And that also goes for the article Fryslân.
Anyone aware that we momentally have 3 articles about one piece of land?? It really has three names: Fryslân (endonym, Frisian language), Friesland (exonym, Dutch language), Frisia (exonym, English language). We should use the English word, for this IS the English Wiki. I think those are really good arguments...
Friesland is not the same as Frisia, as correctly stated above by Kening Aldgilles. So putting the two together is not an option. Concerning Friesland/Fryslân, I would suggest making Fryslân the main entry and Friesland a redirect, since Fryslân is the official name of the Dutch province and has been since 1997. Hope this helps. WanderingSpirit 20:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I would like to reopen this discussion. I agree that historic region of greater Frisia is something else as the current dutch province of Friesland. Only the correct name in dutch for what is now named Frisia is also Friesland! The point is that in dutch Friesland is not the same as Friesland. There's the historic region of Frisia (Friesland in dutch) and the current dutch province of Friesland (also Friesland in dutch). On the dutch wikipedia they also struggled with this issue ( http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg:Groter-Friesland). Page names for what's the dutch version of what's Frisia on the English wikipedia went from names as "Friesland in bredere zin"(Frisia in a broader sense) to eventually Groter-Friesland (Greater Frisia), to distinct it from the province of friesland, wich is the more known meaning in dutch (common usage). The thing is that Friesland is the name for the greater region in dutch, and for the province, two things, same name. Compare it to Province of Brabant until 1995 a province of belgium, which shouldn't be confused with the historic Duchy of Brabant, and there's also North Brabant in the Netherlands, just as there is East Frisia which isn't named East Friesland (german name is ostfriesland, dutch name is Oost Friesland, ost and oost meaning East of course) either. This is the same situation as with brabant, only here the english word happens to differ from the dutch word. The solution that is used on the english wikipedia is artificial in opinion, the correct translation of the dutch Friesland is Frisia, because the correct translation of the english Frisia to dutch is Friesland! There are more places that are distinctive, but have the same name, take for example Utrecht and Utrecht (province). Two distinctive areas, but closely related because of one being inside the other, is not that rare. Using the dutch word for one and the english for the other to solve that is artificial, if there's no difference in names in dutch, and Friesland is clearly a dutch word and not a english one, why would we use the dutch word, just to distinguish it from something with the same name?
That's why I propose:
now grumpy people, start your protests! thug_n_g 23:29, 15 September 2011 (CEST)
This artcile shows the province's ISO 3166-2 code as "NL-FY". Every other source that I can find gives it as "NL-FR". Having remembered the ISO codes, I have changed my view slightly - the English version of Wikipedia should echo the official English language ISO 3166-2 name for the province. As far as I can see, this is "Friesland", though if somebody can find an up-to-date reference for the ISO 3166-2 code, I am willing to accept that. Martinvl ( talk) 21:30, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Please do not merge the article Friesland into Frisia, it is not the same. We cannot do this, because the history of Frisia is not the history of the province Friesland. Then you can merge the article into East-Frisia or Groningen as well. So if its only the history of the province Friesland (according Dutch nationalists), this would be discrimination towards other former Frisian regions. I haven't seen one good reason so far for merging this article into the province Friesland, so please reject this proposal.
Eugène van der Pijll wrote that the official name doesn't matter, excuse me?! The official name is Fryslân, that is the common name used in the European Union, every Dutch ministry (including forreign affairs!) and the province itself. The moderators are the best persons to decide which name is correct. Should be the regionally, nationally and international recognized names, Fryslân.
I recognize this discussion from the Greek nationalists concerning the Macedonian articles.
Kind regards, Kening Aldgilles 10 apr 07, 20:22 CET
Fryslan boppe, benne; i've moved it... -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 05:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Fryslân is official, but it's not an English (or a Dutch) word. Not every Dutch ministery uses Fryslân b.t.w. because it's simply not a Dutch word and can be translated. Only the Interior ministery uses it. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 18:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
How about a Wikiproject dedicated to the Frisians? -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 07:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Does such a project excist? May I join it? Please, give me some directions. -The Bold Guy- 15:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds okay. But not as a sub-Project. In a world, were even tv and book-series get there own projects, I think the Frisian people deserve a project of their own! Is there something of project allready, then please give me some directions! -The Bold Guy- 17:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I dunno if I can get that many interested people to volunteer, but what I can recommend you to do, is to watch the category:Frisian wikipedians (from those who carry the template, and ask them. When you'd do that, I think you can get enough volunteers to run the project, don't you agree? -The Bold Guy- ( talk) 16:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is still in a very poor state, as it focuses almost exclusively on the Frisian language, as though nothing else ever happened in the province. Notwithstanding, I should like to add to the section comparing English and Frisian that Frisian syntax and vocabulary bear a closer resemblance to the neighbouring Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands than to Standard Dutch. I've noticed this through personal observation, but I'll only add this info when I find a source confirming it. Ni'jluuseger ( talk) 00:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, Saxon and Frisian were obviously closely related back in the Middle Ages, both of them being regarded as Lower German. But that goes for Lower Franconian (the more direct ancestor of Dutch) as well. The Groningan variety of Saxon has a potent Frisian substrate, because in the Groningen countryside Frisian was spoken until about the 15th century. The same goes for East-Frisia in Germany. In a way that substrate could also be present (in a lesser strong form) in the dialect of Holland, where a form of Lower-Franconian took over from a more sparse population of Frisian speakers centuries earlier. I doubt that the "non Groningan" varieties of Lower-Saxon resemble Frisian as much as Groningan does. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 20:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a history section.
Does any one know what the 'heart' shapes on the flag are, or represent? They seem quite an unusual feature. They also appear on the inter-Friesian flag, in the this article: West_Friesland_(region)
Those seven water lily leaves are representing 7 parts of Fryslân (or more accuratly Frisia), called the "Sân seelannen" (seven sealands) accoording to a site with the same name on Wikipedia in the Frisian language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.70.218.130 ( talk) 22:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
It might be interesting to note here that the name "Friesen" is a very common surname in the Dutch/Russian/Mexican Mennonite community. 24.57.249.250 ( talk) 13:14, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
Legend has it from the Norse mythology of "Asgard" to 13th century navigational maps that in the North Atlantic lied a sunken continent by the name "Friesland", but it is uncertain the Frisian people were descendants of those islanders whom were displaced by the sinking of the continent thousands of years ago. + 71.102.11.193 ( talk) 04:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Would user:Triomio please revert the change of name in this article or provide a justification for the change - the discussion last December ended with two editors wanting to keep the name Friesland and one wanting to change it to Frisia - ie a majority to keep the status quo which is cetainly not a consensus for change. I did a Google search on the word "Frisia" and there was nothign to suggest that "Frisia" is the English translation of the Dutch province "Fryslâ" (or "Friesland"). Martinvl ( talk) 06:18, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
There are several entities called Friesland (Dutch, German)/Frisia (Latin, English). How about naming this article at least Friesland (province) to give at least some better arrangement?
The terms are used as synonyms inside Wikipedia for these articles:
Would it be more consistent to do that with Frisia and Friesland too and to not offer completely different topics under the often synonymous names Frisia and Friesland? Triomio ( talk) 19:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC) - History example added Triomio ( talk) 03:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
The terms - or the adjective form of Frisia - are used as synonyms at other places:
Evidence for "Province of Frisia"
Triomio ( talk) 20:13, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
I have noticed that in chapter 6.1 it states that frisian is the only other official language in the netherlands. However if i look at the official government website about recognized languages I see that it is not that simple as in the article
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/erkende-talen/talen-in-nederland
21:33, 31 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.93.146.234 ( talk)
Here are some suggested improvements:
Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 00:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
The 2010 population density is incorrect: 646,305 people / 5749 square km = 112 people per square km, not 190, and 646,305 people / 2220 square miles = 291 people per square mile, not 490.
Errors this large may be indicators of other problems with calculation or consistency. It's a very interesting article with great potential. Thanks all for your hard work. Jackaroodave ( talk) 20:46, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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The list of Municipalities is very outdated. Current situation: https://www.fryslan.frl/document.php?m=7&fileid=56932&f=d93f7569f6e2ca8b7bb24c4ef0a9405f&attachment=0. Can someone with more time available than me update the list, including population, area etc? PDZ124169 ( talk) 11:40, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
In the section Culture under Language: "Friesland is one of the twelve provinces of the Netherlands to have its national language that is recognized as such, West Frisian." What does this mean? Wikifan153 ( talk) 14:41, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Dante Alighieri was not early Renaissance, he was deep in the middle ages. 91.141.47.7 ( talk) 07:41, 8 July 2024 (UTC)