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This is a very important passage of this entire article. Yet it does not reflect on the problems faced by the hardware manufacturers. It is absurd, that philosophical POVs are mentioned, but not ones of the hardware developers. I stumbled upon an Interview with Terry Makedon, Chief Software Product Manager for the AMD Catalyst, which does point out quite clearly why manufacturers have such a hard time with free and open-source drivers. Sadly they are in german:
A TODO is to uses the explanations by Terry Makedon to depict the POV of the hardware developers, which are clearly missing in the article. I am going to do it, but it could take some time, so if somebody is bored (and speaks German) he or she could do this as well. It also should be possible to find Interviews/Videos in English or other languages. This is just a very good one, I stumbled upon. ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I think, this is so important, that it deserves an own passage. There is material in the article, especially (or exclusively) with reference to benchmarks done by Phoronix ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
The software architecture in the meaning of framework for writing graphics drivers for the Unix-like operating systems is problematic. For device drivers for sound cards there is Advanced Linux Sound Architecture, which has been stable for a longer time. Making it unnecessary for developers to rewrite the driver for a different kernel framework.
On the graphics side, we have a couple of changes during the entire X_Window_System#Release_history, which required drivers to be rewritten. ATM, there is still quite some development going on, with regards to GEM vs. TTM and DRI vs. Gallium3D, KMS vs. current and future Android Kernel mode setting modules.
Wayland will work on top of EGL (and, as far as I comprehend, thus deprecate the necessity for display server-drivers.)
Available free and open-source implementation of APIs should also be mentioned. There is Mesa, which implements OpenGL, (but only up until 3.2, whereas 4.2 is available), OpenGL ES, OpenVG and also EGL. There is also the Gallium3D State Tracker for Direct3D version 9. It works on top of Microsoft Windows and also in conjunction with Linux when running Wine. ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I created this article because it's a distinct topic in its own right, with a history going back years. The situation is very confused and this article could help to clarify it. It's far too specialised to be merged with the NVIDIA and/or FOSS articles, IMHO. Spliced 15:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to rewrite parts of this, because there is POV subtly built-in... notably in the tone and lack of a real counter-balancing argument. I'm aiming to make both sides of the argument unemotional and objective, as Wikipedia should be. -- Dr. Fuzz 01:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Most members of the Linux kernel development community detest binary drivers [1] and some actively seek to make life difficult for people who develop and use them. Binary drivers may only work with a particular kernel version, whereas FOSS drivers are built right into the mainstream kernel source, enabling users to take compatibility for granted.
It may also be the case that binary-only kernel modules, because they do not comply with the GNU General Public License, are a violation of the kernel developers' copyright.
Maybe this article would be both more neutral and more useful if it was broadened into, say, "Graphics hardware and FOSS". Then a comparison could be made between nVidia, ATI and Intel and the relative merits of each with FOSS. ATI provides 3D-related documentation (under NDA) to X.Org developers for up to the 9200, but nothing more recent. Intel is actively participating in X.Org's development of full 3D support for its new GMA 3000 and X3000 chipsets. If I hear nothing I'll assume I have everyone's blessing to 'be bold' and just do it. :-) Harumphy 16:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Why are there two sections on FOSS support from all the different manufacturers? -- Ysangkok 13:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
This article has just become a ragbag of stuff and a bit of mess. I rewrote most of it, but then realised it wasn't really clear what it was about. Is this supposed to be:
In either case, some of it needs better attribution and some stuff could just plain go (the Microsoft conspiracy bit for a start, and it is probably only necessary to say there is a driver for Intel chips, we don't need to list all the distros that have it). NicM 10:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC).
Thumperward has slapped an ugly great tag at the top of the article, and commented in his edit(s) that it reads like someone's homework. This doesn't make any sense to me and I don't understand what he's on about. It would be much more helpful if people improved articles instead of taking it upon themselves to 'mark' other people's work like some self-appointed schoolmarm. Constructive editing is welcome. Incomprehensible hit-and-run defacement and bossiness are not. -- Harumphy 11:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
"Alas Nvidia is too used to trying to make games appear a couple of fps faster by any hacks possible, rather than actually wanting to work with the developer community to solve the scalability problem properly..." [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.72.47 ( talk) 09:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
In the section Problems with binary drivers, can
although NVIDIA have denied this, asserting that the issue was only communicated to them in July 2006 and that the 2004 bug was a bug in X.Org, not in NVIDIA's driver.
be changed to
although NVIDIA have denied this, asserting that the issue was only communicated to them in July 2006, and that the 2004 bug was in X.Org, and not in NVIDIA's driver.
. Kushal t 12:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone want to edit the article to mention this? [2] — SheeEttin { T/ C} 03:40, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I changed the misspelled "AIT" to ATI" 108.11.130.56 ( talk) 13:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
SoCs that include one (or multiple) GPU/GPU-like IC-Blocks are e.g. Apple Ax, OMAP, Snapdragon, Tegra, NovaThor, Exynos, etc.
Please also read Talk:Graphics_processing_unit#No_mention_of_Silicon_Graphics.3F, because sometime these units are called multimedia processors. At least the VideoCore is reported Here: Ars Technica: Video iPod – Vivisection to replace the "Wolfson audio codec" and add "video processing and output" Doors5678 ( talk) 18:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Please update Broadcom section from this article: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2221 -- LeNiN ( talk) 07:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Before:
MapDevice(PFIFO,regBase);
After:
nvPFIFOPort=(unsigned*)xf86MapVidMem(vga256InfoRec.scrnIndex, 3 , ((char*)( regBase ))+ (8192) , ((16383) - (8192) +1) ) ;
The message about obfuscation: http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/vga256/drivers/nv/Attic/README.RIVATNT?rev=1.1.2.3&hideattic=0&only_with_tag=xf-3_3_3&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup ` a5b ( talk) 22:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
11/18/98
After we already finalized XFree86-3.3.3 NVIDIA forced The XFree86 Project to replace the sources we had with sources that were partly run through the C preprocessor in order to remove some of the names that NVIDIA thought might give away IP from NVIDIA. This resulted in unreadable and unmaintainable code.
The XFree86 Project is strongly opposed to such obfuscated code. We do not regard this as free software according to our standards. Due to the extremely late date of this decision from NVIDIA we decided to include the code as offered by NVIDIA. We are considering to remove support for the later NVIDIA
chips in a future release, though.
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 14:07, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Free and open-source device drivers: graphics → Free and open-source graphics device driver – to comply with WP:TITLE, especially WP:SINGULAR and WP:NATURAL. Joja lozzo 19:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC) Joja lozzo 19:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
The article claims that the Linux kernel has no Binary Kernel Interface, linking to Application binary interface. But that article says that ABIs cover details such as the sizes, layout, and alignment of data types and how an application should make system calls which is, in my understanding, the binary kernel interface for user userspace programs. Does this mean the above sentence is wrong and we should remove it ? -- Juergen 37.252.106.163 ( talk) 12:01, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I would like to suggest to merge this article into Mesa (computer graphics)#Device drivers. Most, but not all!, free and open-source graphics device driver drivers are being developed inside of the mesa project. User:ScotXW t@lk 11:06, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
To write that a team has "people like" certain named people is an odd usage for an encyclopedia.
Either it has those named people or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, why are the unnamed people "like" the named ones?-- 23.119.204.117 ( talk) 07:52, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
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All references belong at the end of the article (not individual sections), and please see WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. Mini apolis 21:07, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
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This is the
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Free and open-source graphics device driver article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
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This is a very important passage of this entire article. Yet it does not reflect on the problems faced by the hardware manufacturers. It is absurd, that philosophical POVs are mentioned, but not ones of the hardware developers. I stumbled upon an Interview with Terry Makedon, Chief Software Product Manager for the AMD Catalyst, which does point out quite clearly why manufacturers have such a hard time with free and open-source drivers. Sadly they are in german:
A TODO is to uses the explanations by Terry Makedon to depict the POV of the hardware developers, which are clearly missing in the article. I am going to do it, but it could take some time, so if somebody is bored (and speaks German) he or she could do this as well. It also should be possible to find Interviews/Videos in English or other languages. This is just a very good one, I stumbled upon. ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I think, this is so important, that it deserves an own passage. There is material in the article, especially (or exclusively) with reference to benchmarks done by Phoronix ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
The software architecture in the meaning of framework for writing graphics drivers for the Unix-like operating systems is problematic. For device drivers for sound cards there is Advanced Linux Sound Architecture, which has been stable for a longer time. Making it unnecessary for developers to rewrite the driver for a different kernel framework.
On the graphics side, we have a couple of changes during the entire X_Window_System#Release_history, which required drivers to be rewritten. ATM, there is still quite some development going on, with regards to GEM vs. TTM and DRI vs. Gallium3D, KMS vs. current and future Android Kernel mode setting modules.
Wayland will work on top of EGL (and, as far as I comprehend, thus deprecate the necessity for display server-drivers.)
Available free and open-source implementation of APIs should also be mentioned. There is Mesa, which implements OpenGL, (but only up until 3.2, whereas 4.2 is available), OpenGL ES, OpenVG and also EGL. There is also the Gallium3D State Tracker for Direct3D version 9. It works on top of Microsoft Windows and also in conjunction with Linux when running Wine. ScotXW ( talk) 10:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I created this article because it's a distinct topic in its own right, with a history going back years. The situation is very confused and this article could help to clarify it. It's far too specialised to be merged with the NVIDIA and/or FOSS articles, IMHO. Spliced 15:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to rewrite parts of this, because there is POV subtly built-in... notably in the tone and lack of a real counter-balancing argument. I'm aiming to make both sides of the argument unemotional and objective, as Wikipedia should be. -- Dr. Fuzz 01:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Most members of the Linux kernel development community detest binary drivers [1] and some actively seek to make life difficult for people who develop and use them. Binary drivers may only work with a particular kernel version, whereas FOSS drivers are built right into the mainstream kernel source, enabling users to take compatibility for granted.
It may also be the case that binary-only kernel modules, because they do not comply with the GNU General Public License, are a violation of the kernel developers' copyright.
Maybe this article would be both more neutral and more useful if it was broadened into, say, "Graphics hardware and FOSS". Then a comparison could be made between nVidia, ATI and Intel and the relative merits of each with FOSS. ATI provides 3D-related documentation (under NDA) to X.Org developers for up to the 9200, but nothing more recent. Intel is actively participating in X.Org's development of full 3D support for its new GMA 3000 and X3000 chipsets. If I hear nothing I'll assume I have everyone's blessing to 'be bold' and just do it. :-) Harumphy 16:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Why are there two sections on FOSS support from all the different manufacturers? -- Ysangkok 13:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
This article has just become a ragbag of stuff and a bit of mess. I rewrote most of it, but then realised it wasn't really clear what it was about. Is this supposed to be:
In either case, some of it needs better attribution and some stuff could just plain go (the Microsoft conspiracy bit for a start, and it is probably only necessary to say there is a driver for Intel chips, we don't need to list all the distros that have it). NicM 10:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC).
Thumperward has slapped an ugly great tag at the top of the article, and commented in his edit(s) that it reads like someone's homework. This doesn't make any sense to me and I don't understand what he's on about. It would be much more helpful if people improved articles instead of taking it upon themselves to 'mark' other people's work like some self-appointed schoolmarm. Constructive editing is welcome. Incomprehensible hit-and-run defacement and bossiness are not. -- Harumphy 11:01, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
"Alas Nvidia is too used to trying to make games appear a couple of fps faster by any hacks possible, rather than actually wanting to work with the developer community to solve the scalability problem properly..." [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.72.47 ( talk) 09:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
In the section Problems with binary drivers, can
although NVIDIA have denied this, asserting that the issue was only communicated to them in July 2006 and that the 2004 bug was a bug in X.Org, not in NVIDIA's driver.
be changed to
although NVIDIA have denied this, asserting that the issue was only communicated to them in July 2006, and that the 2004 bug was in X.Org, and not in NVIDIA's driver.
. Kushal t 12:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Anyone want to edit the article to mention this? [2] — SheeEttin { T/ C} 03:40, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
I changed the misspelled "AIT" to ATI" 108.11.130.56 ( talk) 13:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
SoCs that include one (or multiple) GPU/GPU-like IC-Blocks are e.g. Apple Ax, OMAP, Snapdragon, Tegra, NovaThor, Exynos, etc.
Please also read Talk:Graphics_processing_unit#No_mention_of_Silicon_Graphics.3F, because sometime these units are called multimedia processors. At least the VideoCore is reported Here: Ars Technica: Video iPod – Vivisection to replace the "Wolfson audio codec" and add "video processing and output" Doors5678 ( talk) 18:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Please update Broadcom section from this article: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2221 -- LeNiN ( talk) 07:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Before:
MapDevice(PFIFO,regBase);
After:
nvPFIFOPort=(unsigned*)xf86MapVidMem(vga256InfoRec.scrnIndex, 3 , ((char*)( regBase ))+ (8192) , ((16383) - (8192) +1) ) ;
The message about obfuscation: http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/vga256/drivers/nv/Attic/README.RIVATNT?rev=1.1.2.3&hideattic=0&only_with_tag=xf-3_3_3&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup ` a5b ( talk) 22:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
11/18/98
After we already finalized XFree86-3.3.3 NVIDIA forced The XFree86 Project to replace the sources we had with sources that were partly run through the C preprocessor in order to remove some of the names that NVIDIA thought might give away IP from NVIDIA. This resulted in unreadable and unmaintainable code.
The XFree86 Project is strongly opposed to such obfuscated code. We do not regard this as free software according to our standards. Due to the extremely late date of this decision from NVIDIA we decided to include the code as offered by NVIDIA. We are considering to remove support for the later NVIDIA
chips in a future release, though.
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 14:07, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
Free and open-source device drivers: graphics → Free and open-source graphics device driver – to comply with WP:TITLE, especially WP:SINGULAR and WP:NATURAL. Joja lozzo 19:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC) Joja lozzo 19:49, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
The article claims that the Linux kernel has no Binary Kernel Interface, linking to Application binary interface. But that article says that ABIs cover details such as the sizes, layout, and alignment of data types and how an application should make system calls which is, in my understanding, the binary kernel interface for user userspace programs. Does this mean the above sentence is wrong and we should remove it ? -- Juergen 37.252.106.163 ( talk) 12:01, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I would like to suggest to merge this article into Mesa (computer graphics)#Device drivers. Most, but not all!, free and open-source graphics device driver drivers are being developed inside of the mesa project. User:ScotXW t@lk 11:06, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
To write that a team has "people like" certain named people is an odd usage for an encyclopedia.
Either it has those named people or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, why are the unnamed people "like" the named ones?-- 23.119.204.117 ( talk) 07:52, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
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