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Seems that people within the organization cannot get along: http://www.freegaza.org/en/home/aipac There have been recent edits to the original formation of the organization which is now not so surprising after reading the link. Does anyone want to tackle putting this info in the article? Cptnono ( talk) 22:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I wanted to let you know that the first paragraph of the "History" section of the page for the Free Gaza Movement is incorrect, unsourced, and hardly neutral. The page is located at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Gaza_Movement
The paragraph currently states:
"The group was founded by a group of activists and Palestinians from the International Solidarity Movement, a front organization for the PLO and now Hamas."
This is both untrue and unsourced. It continues:
"The boats have Iranian "journalists" on board who are from Iran's Press TV who are most likely Iranian agents."
Again, this is untrue & unsourced. There were two journalists (Aki Nawal & Yvonne Ridley) from Press TV on the first voyage in August 2008, and none since then. Both Aki & Yvonne are public figures in the UK - hardly agents.
The paragraph continues:
"The purpose is to open the sea lanes controlled by Israel in order to facilitate the smuggling of weapons to Hamas by sea."
In fact, the Free Gaza Movement is a peaceful organization engaging in non-violent direct action. Our ships have been searched by Cypriot authorities prior to each voyage, and all participants sign a document pledging to be nonviolent in word & deed before getting on board our ships.
It continues:
"The first voyage had no "humanitairan" supplies and since then gods brought in have only been symbolic. Huwaida Arraf, the Free Gaza leader has declared her support for suicide bombers as "legitinate resistance" and admitted at two ISM conference that the ISM works with Hamas, PFLP and Palestine Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Iranian-supported terror group.Human rights is only a diversion to aid terror groups. The most recent voyage on June 25, 2009 tried to bring cement as is used for weapons smuggling tunnels and bunkers."
Look, I don't really feel a need to "prove" that this nonsense is untrue. This paragraph was recently changed/added to our entry. It is self-observably ridiculous and offensive. Please either source these claims or remove the paragraph.
Cheers, Free Gaza Movement http://www.FreeGaza.org
So far nothing has been independently verified regarding the urgent update recently included. Does some sort of disclaimer need to be in the wording ("According to..." or something similar)? Israel should have a response to the press releases shortly so am not too worried about it but am concerned some readers will take this "breaking news" as fact (which it may be). Cptnono ( talk) 05:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The following has been removed with the edit summary "rv pov - biased wording".
Israel considers the waters along the Gaza Strip an Israeli controlled security zone in accordance with internationally recognized agreements with the Palestinian Authority. [1]
The organization says that it is international waters in the previous line "According to the organization, the boats have been and will continue to go directly from international waters into the waters of Gaza." It is not POV to let the reader know that the assertion that it is international waters is disputed. It is sourced and not given undue weight. Frank;y, I'm astonished that an editor would remove this without first attempting to improve it. Cptnono ( talk) 00:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Call the Pro Palestinians also Anti-Israeli both Chomsky and Tutu fit that category Unicorn76 ( talk) 23:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
"The family of captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit offered the organizers of the flotilla full support provided that "in addition to their demand that Israel lift its blockade they will urge Hamas to allow the soldier to receive letters and food packages from his family and allow international organizations to visit him". According to Attorney Nick Kaufman, who approached the Free Gaza Movement on behalf of the kidnapped soldier's family the offer was refused.[35] According to the Free Gaza Movement's web site, they "were first contacted by lawyers representing Shalit's family May 26 evening, just hours before they were set to depart from Greece. Irish Senator Mark Daly (Kerry), one of 35 parliamentarians joining the flotilla, agreed to carry any letter or package and to attempt to deliver it to Shalit or, if that request was denied, deliver it to John Ging, Director of UNRWA in Gaza. As of May 28 evening the lawyers have not responded to Sen. Daly""
Their response has several problems. I found a secondary source that says: "Both of the papers published articles stated that “organizers decline carrying a package to Gilad shalit” However, this turned untrue. I spoke with a number of organizers like ECESG and people from the Free Gaza Movement. They both said, “No one contacted us”. We are ready to take this package to Shalit. But in return, we need a commitment from Israel to allow Palestinian families to visit their sons, brothers, sisters, children, women in the dozens of Israeli jails." [1]
So using the Free Gaza website now violates WP:SELFPUB
Cptnono ( talk) 23:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
"According to the Free Gaza Movement's Web site, the group intended for the boat to enter the Israeli declared "special security zone" in the hope of provoking a clash and being arrested by the Israeli navy."
The Ha'aretz source does say "The organizers thereby hope to provoke a clash with the navy that will end with them being forcibly arrested," and the sentence is placed in such a manner that it implies this came from the group's website. But I looked over all the website content from that time, and could not find any statement to this effect -- on the contrary, there are repeated statements of intent to "break the siege," get into Gaza, deliver aid, etc. It does say that they expected they might be stopped by the Israeli navy, but I didn't find anything about hoping to provoke a clash.
I would suggest this statement should be removed. If not, I would at least suggest that Ha'aretz's rendering of the group's motive be paired next to the group's actual rendering of its own motives, perhaps citing the website directly. EvanHarper ( talk) 09:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
how can it be in response to the blockade, which began in 2007? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.246.26.45 ( talk) 04:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe that Attack on the Free Gaza flotilla should be merged into this article, as it is probably not notable enough to stand as a separate article. Kaldari ( talk) 06:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Citations form other article for easy reference: 1. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html 2. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896416,00.html 3. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html
Text |
---|
On 31 May 2010,
Israeli Navy forces stormed the flotilla of ships operated by the
Free Gaza Movement, killing up to 16 people
[2].
Details The six-ship flotilla began the journey on May 30, 2010 from Cyprus. The Israeli navy contacted the captain of the Mavi Marmara, asking him to identify himself and say where the ship was headed. Shortly after, two Israeli naval vessels flanked the flotilla on either side, but at a distance. [3] Footage from the flotilla's lead vessel, the MV Mavi Marmara, showed armed Israeli soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead. Israelis say they acted in defence when confronted by persons wielding sharp objects. An Israeli soldier was moderately injured during the raid after being stabbed in the stomach. [4] Reaction Turkey is reported to have summoned the Israeli ambassador to lodge a protest. [5] |
The huge talk page on the other article Attack on the Free Gaza flotilla was cover up by clean page. What it mean here discussion ./? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ai 00 ( talk • contribs) 07:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I strongly oppose, the killings is enough to be in its own article. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 09:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Not merge, IMO. Spøkelse ( talk) 11:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
strongly oppose, Nonsense. The attack is too important to be hidden here. vvarkey ( talk) 17:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. For reasons mentioned above, including loss of life, media coverage, mass of international responses this generated (and rightfully so, its a big deal). An act of merging the two pages is a huge blow to NPOV as it will bury it in an irrelevant location, downplaying its importance, thoroughness, etc. -- Eyas ( talk) 21:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I draw the attention to this factbox report by Reuters on IHH, http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U4SO20100601, as a balance to the report by Washington Post and Telegraph in the first section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sextusempericus ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
How come there is no mention of the movement being funded by William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and Jodie Evans? [2] Truthsort ( talk) 01:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Also, why is there no mention of the fact that Greta Berlin, one of the group's organizers, admits that $368,000 US for the Rachel Corrie trip came from Mahathir Mohamad, a man with a sorted history of Anti-Semitic comments: Mahathir Mohamad? Here's a link to an AP wire story. http://www.todayonline.com/BreakingNews/EDC100604-0000026/Free-Gaza-co-founder-says-group-turned-down-an-offer-of-a-donation-from-Iran
This is Mahathir Mohamad's entry on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_bin_Mohamad 173.32.78.128 ( talk) 16:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I am removing the line from International Solidartiy Movement. Instead of finding a secondary RS after it was tagged, a new user instead decided to remove the tag. It is a violation of WP:SELFPUB since the organizations work together and it is a press release that is unduly self-serving and it involves claims about third parties. There is also reasonable doubt to its authenticity. Since Free Gaza is not RS and is biased there is reasonable doubt that what they say is authentic. Furthermore, it is undue weight. It is also worded with a huge POV slant. If a rebuttal is necessary, I suggest editors find a secondary RS. I also suggest that they word it in a more neutral tone. Overall, this paragraph doesn't deserve much weight anyways. New editors should also read the guidelines before removing text since the inappropriate removal of a tag would have prevented no info being included at all. Cptnono ( talk) 12:03, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
![]() |
I think the use of the International Solidarity Movement's own newsletter, to report the situation as they see it — thus providing balance and furthering NPOV — is OK here. Yes, it arguably falls under
WP:SELFPUB, but its use seems to reasonably meet the conditions for allowing self-published sources as I understand them. I see a major difference between quoting material from a pro-Gaza source like this and, say, quoting a self-published "patriot" fringe blog in an attempt to lend credibility to anti-Obama "birthers".
Almost by definition of this situation, each side's positions are going to seem self-serving, disingenuous, and wildly POV to people on the other side. I think it would be even better if the cite of the ISM newsletter could be replaced by a good-quality secondary source (possibly something reported in an established newspaper from an Arab country), but I'm not really disturbed by quoting the ISM directly here if a secondary source can't easily be found. I will say that I was a bit concerned about whether the less-than-positive reference to the Shalit family and their lawyer (Nick Kaufman) — the "blatant lie" part — might be crossing the line into forbidden territory per WP:BLP. Upon reflection, I don't think this is a problem, but some discussion about this might possibly be worth having, just to be sure.— Richwales ( talk) 03:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC) |
I recommend creating a new section to address the planned 2011 sailing. Suggested text follows:
![]() | This article possibly contains unsourced
predictions, speculative material, or accounts of events that might not occur. Information must be
verifiable and based on
reliable published sources. |
132.64.188.17 ( talk) 09:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
In the second paragraph there's a lone quotation mark right at the end. 132.64.188.17 ( talk) 09:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
"The Free Gaza movement is a coalition of human rights organizations and activists...." The claim is highly suspect. Where is the source for it? None is suggested in the article. If a source cannot be produced, a less biased description would be preferable - potentially "The Free Gaza movement is a coalition of pro-Palestinian organizations and activists." That would sound much less partial.— Biosketch ( talk) 06:18, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
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Hello, May 2010 sailing, the last sentence state that commandos were arrested for stealing laptops. This is untrue, 2 soldiers were arrested but they were not part of the commando operation. they stole the laptops after they were on land with other equipment on the docs.
Thanks
212.179.140.194 ( talk) 12:11, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Greta Berlin, one of the movement's founders, recently posted a link to a video of a speech blaming Jews for the Holocaust on the Free Gaza movement's Twitter feed. She later apologized for sending it by mistake. The feed had previously posted a link to a 1943 Nazi propaganda film Im Wald von Katyn. See http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/04/gaza-flotilla-sponsor-blames-jews-for-holocaust-on-twitter. 220.255.2.38 ( talk) 08:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I thought it was a bigger problem for the Free Gaza Movement's apology to be used to explain that the "small private group" she referred to in her own apology here which we should also use was "was shared with a group of people who were discussing propaganda and racism, and this link was an example of the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites." Now it occurs to me that if she's a "spokesperson" for the group, the group would not have printed that without her OKing it. But is that original research?? Now the better source that details everything - including her explanation - is Mondoweiss and people can go there an read all the convoluted details if they want. So would the below be acceptable to you?
Berlin has been accused of being antisemitic following a controversial tweet, originating from her Facebook account, and published under the account of the Free Gaza Movement. The tweet read “Zionists operated the concentration camps and helped murder millions of innocent Jews" and contained a link to a video of that name, a speech by conspiracy theorist Eustace Mullins asserting that Zionists are responsible for the Holocaust and are admirers of Hitler. [8] [9] The Free Gaza Movement later deleted the tweet. [10] Berlin apologized once the post became known to a wider audience. She declared that she had "shared it without watching it." [11] [12] According to the Free Gaza Movement apology the post was "from Greta's private Facebook page and was shared with a group of people who were discussing propaganda and racism, and this link was an example of the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites." [10] Various discussions of this explanation ensued. [13] [14] In response the Jewish Voice for Peace group distanced itself from Berlin and the Free Gaza Movement. [13]
References
We're getting ready to go again in the Spring. And we need your support. Follow us on Witnessgaza.com; join us on twitter and Facebook, then donate to help us.
THE APPLICATION PROCESS TO SAIL ON THE U.S. BOAT TO GAZA, THE AUDACITY OF HOPE, IS NOW CLOSED. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO APPLIED.
Thoughts? CarolMooreDC 01:18, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Back to JVP, it started as a long quote vs 3rd parties which vs WP:RS. Actually now it is just a statement that they've disassociated themselves, which is not wp:undue. One gets confused sometimes with so many edits and so little time. So as is not an issue if stays as is. And WP:RS of Mondoweiss can be discussed somewhere more of an issue. CarolMooreDC 19:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
FYI. Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Greta_Berlin:_Gossip_and_Feedback_Loops_from_poor_WP:RS. CarolMooreDC 18:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
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"Nick Kaufman" should be changed for " Nick Kaufman" on account of an existing link Toolson1968 ( talk) 09:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
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Seems that people within the organization cannot get along: http://www.freegaza.org/en/home/aipac There have been recent edits to the original formation of the organization which is now not so surprising after reading the link. Does anyone want to tackle putting this info in the article? Cptnono ( talk) 22:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I wanted to let you know that the first paragraph of the "History" section of the page for the Free Gaza Movement is incorrect, unsourced, and hardly neutral. The page is located at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Gaza_Movement
The paragraph currently states:
"The group was founded by a group of activists and Palestinians from the International Solidarity Movement, a front organization for the PLO and now Hamas."
This is both untrue and unsourced. It continues:
"The boats have Iranian "journalists" on board who are from Iran's Press TV who are most likely Iranian agents."
Again, this is untrue & unsourced. There were two journalists (Aki Nawal & Yvonne Ridley) from Press TV on the first voyage in August 2008, and none since then. Both Aki & Yvonne are public figures in the UK - hardly agents.
The paragraph continues:
"The purpose is to open the sea lanes controlled by Israel in order to facilitate the smuggling of weapons to Hamas by sea."
In fact, the Free Gaza Movement is a peaceful organization engaging in non-violent direct action. Our ships have been searched by Cypriot authorities prior to each voyage, and all participants sign a document pledging to be nonviolent in word & deed before getting on board our ships.
It continues:
"The first voyage had no "humanitairan" supplies and since then gods brought in have only been symbolic. Huwaida Arraf, the Free Gaza leader has declared her support for suicide bombers as "legitinate resistance" and admitted at two ISM conference that the ISM works with Hamas, PFLP and Palestine Islamic Jihad, the Palestinian Iranian-supported terror group.Human rights is only a diversion to aid terror groups. The most recent voyage on June 25, 2009 tried to bring cement as is used for weapons smuggling tunnels and bunkers."
Look, I don't really feel a need to "prove" that this nonsense is untrue. This paragraph was recently changed/added to our entry. It is self-observably ridiculous and offensive. Please either source these claims or remove the paragraph.
Cheers, Free Gaza Movement http://www.FreeGaza.org
So far nothing has been independently verified regarding the urgent update recently included. Does some sort of disclaimer need to be in the wording ("According to..." or something similar)? Israel should have a response to the press releases shortly so am not too worried about it but am concerned some readers will take this "breaking news" as fact (which it may be). Cptnono ( talk) 05:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
The following has been removed with the edit summary "rv pov - biased wording".
Israel considers the waters along the Gaza Strip an Israeli controlled security zone in accordance with internationally recognized agreements with the Palestinian Authority. [1]
The organization says that it is international waters in the previous line "According to the organization, the boats have been and will continue to go directly from international waters into the waters of Gaza." It is not POV to let the reader know that the assertion that it is international waters is disputed. It is sourced and not given undue weight. Frank;y, I'm astonished that an editor would remove this without first attempting to improve it. Cptnono ( talk) 00:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Call the Pro Palestinians also Anti-Israeli both Chomsky and Tutu fit that category Unicorn76 ( talk) 23:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
"The family of captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit offered the organizers of the flotilla full support provided that "in addition to their demand that Israel lift its blockade they will urge Hamas to allow the soldier to receive letters and food packages from his family and allow international organizations to visit him". According to Attorney Nick Kaufman, who approached the Free Gaza Movement on behalf of the kidnapped soldier's family the offer was refused.[35] According to the Free Gaza Movement's web site, they "were first contacted by lawyers representing Shalit's family May 26 evening, just hours before they were set to depart from Greece. Irish Senator Mark Daly (Kerry), one of 35 parliamentarians joining the flotilla, agreed to carry any letter or package and to attempt to deliver it to Shalit or, if that request was denied, deliver it to John Ging, Director of UNRWA in Gaza. As of May 28 evening the lawyers have not responded to Sen. Daly""
Their response has several problems. I found a secondary source that says: "Both of the papers published articles stated that “organizers decline carrying a package to Gilad shalit” However, this turned untrue. I spoke with a number of organizers like ECESG and people from the Free Gaza Movement. They both said, “No one contacted us”. We are ready to take this package to Shalit. But in return, we need a commitment from Israel to allow Palestinian families to visit their sons, brothers, sisters, children, women in the dozens of Israeli jails." [1]
So using the Free Gaza website now violates WP:SELFPUB
Cptnono ( talk) 23:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
"According to the Free Gaza Movement's Web site, the group intended for the boat to enter the Israeli declared "special security zone" in the hope of provoking a clash and being arrested by the Israeli navy."
The Ha'aretz source does say "The organizers thereby hope to provoke a clash with the navy that will end with them being forcibly arrested," and the sentence is placed in such a manner that it implies this came from the group's website. But I looked over all the website content from that time, and could not find any statement to this effect -- on the contrary, there are repeated statements of intent to "break the siege," get into Gaza, deliver aid, etc. It does say that they expected they might be stopped by the Israeli navy, but I didn't find anything about hoping to provoke a clash.
I would suggest this statement should be removed. If not, I would at least suggest that Ha'aretz's rendering of the group's motive be paired next to the group's actual rendering of its own motives, perhaps citing the website directly. EvanHarper ( talk) 09:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
how can it be in response to the blockade, which began in 2007? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.246.26.45 ( talk) 04:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe that Attack on the Free Gaza flotilla should be merged into this article, as it is probably not notable enough to stand as a separate article. Kaldari ( talk) 06:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Citations form other article for easy reference: 1. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html 2. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896416,00.html 3. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/05/201053133047995359.html
Text |
---|
On 31 May 2010,
Israeli Navy forces stormed the flotilla of ships operated by the
Free Gaza Movement, killing up to 16 people
[2].
Details The six-ship flotilla began the journey on May 30, 2010 from Cyprus. The Israeli navy contacted the captain of the Mavi Marmara, asking him to identify himself and say where the ship was headed. Shortly after, two Israeli naval vessels flanked the flotilla on either side, but at a distance. [3] Footage from the flotilla's lead vessel, the MV Mavi Marmara, showed armed Israeli soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead. Israelis say they acted in defence when confronted by persons wielding sharp objects. An Israeli soldier was moderately injured during the raid after being stabbed in the stomach. [4] Reaction Turkey is reported to have summoned the Israeli ambassador to lodge a protest. [5] |
The huge talk page on the other article Attack on the Free Gaza flotilla was cover up by clean page. What it mean here discussion ./? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ai 00 ( talk • contribs) 07:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I strongly oppose, the killings is enough to be in its own article. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 09:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Not merge, IMO. Spøkelse ( talk) 11:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
strongly oppose, Nonsense. The attack is too important to be hidden here. vvarkey ( talk) 17:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Strong oppose. For reasons mentioned above, including loss of life, media coverage, mass of international responses this generated (and rightfully so, its a big deal). An act of merging the two pages is a huge blow to NPOV as it will bury it in an irrelevant location, downplaying its importance, thoroughness, etc. -- Eyas ( talk) 21:22, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I draw the attention to this factbox report by Reuters on IHH, http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U4SO20100601, as a balance to the report by Washington Post and Telegraph in the first section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sextusempericus ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
How come there is no mention of the movement being funded by William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, and Jodie Evans? [2] Truthsort ( talk) 01:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Also, why is there no mention of the fact that Greta Berlin, one of the group's organizers, admits that $368,000 US for the Rachel Corrie trip came from Mahathir Mohamad, a man with a sorted history of Anti-Semitic comments: Mahathir Mohamad? Here's a link to an AP wire story. http://www.todayonline.com/BreakingNews/EDC100604-0000026/Free-Gaza-co-founder-says-group-turned-down-an-offer-of-a-donation-from-Iran
This is Mahathir Mohamad's entry on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahathir_bin_Mohamad 173.32.78.128 ( talk) 16:09, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I am removing the line from International Solidartiy Movement. Instead of finding a secondary RS after it was tagged, a new user instead decided to remove the tag. It is a violation of WP:SELFPUB since the organizations work together and it is a press release that is unduly self-serving and it involves claims about third parties. There is also reasonable doubt to its authenticity. Since Free Gaza is not RS and is biased there is reasonable doubt that what they say is authentic. Furthermore, it is undue weight. It is also worded with a huge POV slant. If a rebuttal is necessary, I suggest editors find a secondary RS. I also suggest that they word it in a more neutral tone. Overall, this paragraph doesn't deserve much weight anyways. New editors should also read the guidelines before removing text since the inappropriate removal of a tag would have prevented no info being included at all. Cptnono ( talk) 12:03, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
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I think the use of the International Solidarity Movement's own newsletter, to report the situation as they see it — thus providing balance and furthering NPOV — is OK here. Yes, it arguably falls under
WP:SELFPUB, but its use seems to reasonably meet the conditions for allowing self-published sources as I understand them. I see a major difference between quoting material from a pro-Gaza source like this and, say, quoting a self-published "patriot" fringe blog in an attempt to lend credibility to anti-Obama "birthers".
Almost by definition of this situation, each side's positions are going to seem self-serving, disingenuous, and wildly POV to people on the other side. I think it would be even better if the cite of the ISM newsletter could be replaced by a good-quality secondary source (possibly something reported in an established newspaper from an Arab country), but I'm not really disturbed by quoting the ISM directly here if a secondary source can't easily be found. I will say that I was a bit concerned about whether the less-than-positive reference to the Shalit family and their lawyer (Nick Kaufman) — the "blatant lie" part — might be crossing the line into forbidden territory per WP:BLP. Upon reflection, I don't think this is a problem, but some discussion about this might possibly be worth having, just to be sure.— Richwales ( talk) 03:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC) |
I recommend creating a new section to address the planned 2011 sailing. Suggested text follows:
![]() | This article possibly contains unsourced
predictions, speculative material, or accounts of events that might not occur. Information must be
verifiable and based on
reliable published sources. |
132.64.188.17 ( talk) 09:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
In the second paragraph there's a lone quotation mark right at the end. 132.64.188.17 ( talk) 09:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
"The Free Gaza movement is a coalition of human rights organizations and activists...." The claim is highly suspect. Where is the source for it? None is suggested in the article. If a source cannot be produced, a less biased description would be preferable - potentially "The Free Gaza movement is a coalition of pro-Palestinian organizations and activists." That would sound much less partial.— Biosketch ( talk) 06:18, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
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Hello, May 2010 sailing, the last sentence state that commandos were arrested for stealing laptops. This is untrue, 2 soldiers were arrested but they were not part of the commando operation. they stole the laptops after they were on land with other equipment on the docs.
Thanks
212.179.140.194 ( talk) 12:11, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
Greta Berlin, one of the movement's founders, recently posted a link to a video of a speech blaming Jews for the Holocaust on the Free Gaza movement's Twitter feed. She later apologized for sending it by mistake. The feed had previously posted a link to a 1943 Nazi propaganda film Im Wald von Katyn. See http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/04/gaza-flotilla-sponsor-blames-jews-for-holocaust-on-twitter. 220.255.2.38 ( talk) 08:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I thought it was a bigger problem for the Free Gaza Movement's apology to be used to explain that the "small private group" she referred to in her own apology here which we should also use was "was shared with a group of people who were discussing propaganda and racism, and this link was an example of the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites." Now it occurs to me that if she's a "spokesperson" for the group, the group would not have printed that without her OKing it. But is that original research?? Now the better source that details everything - including her explanation - is Mondoweiss and people can go there an read all the convoluted details if they want. So would the below be acceptable to you?
Berlin has been accused of being antisemitic following a controversial tweet, originating from her Facebook account, and published under the account of the Free Gaza Movement. The tweet read “Zionists operated the concentration camps and helped murder millions of innocent Jews" and contained a link to a video of that name, a speech by conspiracy theorist Eustace Mullins asserting that Zionists are responsible for the Holocaust and are admirers of Hitler. [8] [9] The Free Gaza Movement later deleted the tweet. [10] Berlin apologized once the post became known to a wider audience. She declared that she had "shared it without watching it." [11] [12] According to the Free Gaza Movement apology the post was "from Greta's private Facebook page and was shared with a group of people who were discussing propaganda and racism, and this link was an example of the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites." [10] Various discussions of this explanation ensued. [13] [14] In response the Jewish Voice for Peace group distanced itself from Berlin and the Free Gaza Movement. [13]
References
We're getting ready to go again in the Spring. And we need your support. Follow us on Witnessgaza.com; join us on twitter and Facebook, then donate to help us.
THE APPLICATION PROCESS TO SAIL ON THE U.S. BOAT TO GAZA, THE AUDACITY OF HOPE, IS NOW CLOSED. THANK YOU TO ALL WHO APPLIED.
Thoughts? CarolMooreDC 01:18, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Back to JVP, it started as a long quote vs 3rd parties which vs WP:RS. Actually now it is just a statement that they've disassociated themselves, which is not wp:undue. One gets confused sometimes with so many edits and so little time. So as is not an issue if stays as is. And WP:RS of Mondoweiss can be discussed somewhere more of an issue. CarolMooreDC 19:48, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
FYI. Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Greta_Berlin:_Gossip_and_Feedback_Loops_from_poor_WP:RS. CarolMooreDC 18:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
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"Nick Kaufman" should be changed for " Nick Kaufman" on account of an existing link Toolson1968 ( talk) 09:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
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