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I think this article is highly POV. To say "equal voting rights did not exist" is technically inaccurate, although the system was generally considered to have been weighted in favour of the Protestant majority. I don't believe any of the civil rights associations were ever 'banned' by anyone, nor do I believe 'beaten on the streets' is reflective of the situation, not to mention that it is highly emotive language.
The first half of the article needs a rewrite that is more balanced... -- Breadandcheese 17:36, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a massively important event in irish history , it needs to be expanded greatly ( Gnevin 22:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC))
Irish history? Northern Ireland is part of Britain! I'm sick of reading "British this and British that" on this page such as British Home Secretary, British Army, British troops, this wasn't a foreign country that they were involved in, it was and is a part of Britain. Adding British is entirely inappropriate and NPOV and i'm removing the propaganda. YourPTR! 20:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I have edited and expanded the paragraph on the Samuel Devenny attack as the original text was written with a political slant and not in an encyclopedic way. In editeing and expanding it I have added the official documented statements of the reason why RUC officers decided to try and enter the property and what is alledged to have caused the resultant attack on the family. It is also wise to point out that officially Mr Devenny's death remains by natural causes and the statement in the article which used the term murder, while highly emotive, is not officially accurate. As an article wiki Free Derry is not supposed to present opinions on what happened as seems to have been the case in the Mr Devenny paragraph. Instead it can only present encyclopedic fact. While appreciating that the deaths of victims in the Northern Ireland troubles is, as stated before, highly emotive and often tinted by political opinion, within wiki it should remain purely factual.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.202.136.227 ( talk • contribs) 21:05 (UTC), 27 June 2007.
I am moving the following paragraph to here. I have been unable to find any mention of the story elsewhere. It can be restored if a verifiable source is cited:
One major issue of the time was the inclusion of the Foyle Road area, which was considered to be approximately 25% Protestant. Some simply packed their bags and abandoned their homes in the hope of being given housing in the Waterside of the city but others, who owned their homes or held mortgages, were either unwilling or unable to leave. The action came to a head in January 1970 when members of the Provisional IRA burst into the dwellings of the remaining Protestants and issued them with a warning that if they did not leave within twelve hours they would be shot. The attacks infuriated the members of the Official IRA, many of whom had regarded the Protestants of the Foyle Road as neighbours and friends before the troubles. During the next day members of the Oficial IRA visited those who were still in their homes and assured them that no harm would come to them but that wider events had made their staying in Foyle Road impossible. Despite the dwindling power of the Official IRA the residents were protected from attack during a protracted negotiation with the council who between 1970 and 1976 compulsarily purchased the properties, for a fraction of their value, and rehoused the residents in the Waterside.
Scolaire 18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The Gay Pride story is now eight months old. I'm moving it from its current place to a footnote, including the link to the BBC story. It's definitely time that the pink wall pic was removed; it gives the impression that the article is about Gay Pride. Scolaire ( talk) 14:45, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
More to follow...
Perhaps include the death of the fourteenth somehow? I'm aware he was killed before 1 Para moved in. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Undoubtedly true, possibly add a direct quote from someone about how it was increased? I've seen plenty in books, I'll try and find one myself. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Although "local boy" is pretty much common usage, there's probably a slightly more formal and encyclopedic alternative? (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Official SF? Probably best to clarify that. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
A bit about the scale of the operation wouldn't go amiss, it was the biggest Army operation since the Suez crisis. Possibly expand "the IRA took the decision not to resist it" to add slightly more context.
Possibly expand that slightly. "incident in Belfast" is vague, and only invites the reader to wonder what sort of incident but doesn't tell them. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
I'll take a look at the rest later, but it's certainly a huge improvement and an easy B class. One Night In Hackney 303 19:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Few more thoughts...
Merge the "Name and location" section. The name can probably go in the background section, less sure about whether that's an appropriate place to merge the location, but I'm never keen on tiny sections when you've got much bigger ones if they can be avoided. (Done.
Scolaire (
talk)
10:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC))
Possibly a bit more about gerrymandering. From memory the Catholic wards returned less councillors that the Protestant ward(s?), despite being numerically larger, thereby ensuring permanent control. It's got some good detail already, but doesn't explain it well enough. As it's talking about waiting lists in that section, I seem to remember a famous example (was it Michelle Gildernew's mother?) of a Catholic being refused a council house/flat that was given to the secretary of a Unionist councillor? Details may be slightly off on that, so correct me if I'm wrong. Think that would be a good example to add. (Done, but I left out Gildernew's family because they weren't in Derry. Scolaire ( talk) 14:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC))
Apprentice Boys march. Perhaps a bit about them deliberately organising the march for the same day to force the issue? It's referenced in the NICRA article, I remember referencing it. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 23:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
Burntollet. "anti-civil rights counter-demonstrators" is a bit vague, let's call a spade a spade and include Loyalist, plus the "off-duty" RUC and B-Specials that were there too. One Night In Hackney 303 21:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
There is an automated peer review at Talk:Free Derry/Automated peer review. Scolaire ( talk) 14:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Londonderry has not always had a majority Nationalist population. This is easily verified by the various census reports now available on-line such as this one from 1659. 1659 Census -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 02:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I would certainly agree with this, the city was conceived and constructed as Londonderry and to give it the name of the adjacent hamlet of Derry is incorrect. Just because incomers from Donegal called it Doire and later Derry (lack of proper English) doesn't make it correct. The city Council may change their name but the city is properly and legally called Londonderry and Wikipedia should reflect this if it wants to be taken seriously as a genuine encylopedia.-- 87.115.13.130 ( talk) 19:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed. Wikipedia:Verifiability is one of Wikipedia's core content policies.-- Domer48 'fenian' 19:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone hold a particular view on this matter and can point to appropriate links one way or the other? -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 02:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
What are you on about, with your "The truth does hurt"? Your "Original content" was removed per WP:SOAP and WP:TPG, and will continue to be removed. Now provide sources per WP:V and WP:RS to support your assertions. -- Domer48 'fenian' 14:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
The 1961 census taken in Londonderry revealed that the birth rate in the South Ward, at 21.2 per 000 was almost double that of the Northern average, 40% of the population there were under 15 and that 80% of births in Derry were to Catholic mothers. The Museum of Free Derry
I've semi-protected this article due to the roving IPs that are causing edit wars on non-consensus, non-referenced changes. Canterbury Tail talk 23:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The FACTS speak VOLUMES!...watch this space!! -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 09:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Obviously, "It has always had a majority nationalist population" was wrong, and needed to be corrected. I have some issues, though, with the current version. Firstly, and most importantly, "nationalist majority" has been changed to "Catholic majority". This article has consistently made the point that communal strife in Derry was based on the opposition of nationalist residents to the unionist system and was not religious in nature, and of course one of the key figures in the 1969 Free Derry was a Protestant, Ivan Cooper. Secondly, the insertion of details about the 1920 election and Hugh O'Doherty's election as mayor breaks the connection between the nationalist majority among the population and the unionist majority on the corporation, making the paragraph difficult to follow. I propose to edit the paragraph as follows:
Any objections? Scolaire ( talk) 10:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit to...Free Derry ( Irish: Saor Doire) was an illegal self-declared autonomous nationalist area of Derry, County Londonderry, Northern Ireland, between 1969 and 1972.
Free Derry was an illegal entity. Civil disobedience, street violence towards the legitimate autorities, threats, intimidation and evictions for anyone who opposed the situation was the order of the day. This was a no-go zone for the Police and British Army for much time because of the level of violence being generated by those whose wishes they wanted to impose on everyone else regardless of their religion and creed.
The city lies in the County Londonderry, it is quite correct to add this label. Please discuss if you can. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 12:50, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Watch and learn... FREE Derry footage -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Everyone knows that it was an illegal blockade. This so-called self-proclaimed entity drew its funds from the British Government on one hand yet defied its authority on the other by the use of the gun and the petrol bomb. Free Derry was nothing but a pro-Republican ghetto run by Martin McGuiness and his hencemen of the Provisional IRA. The ordinary people suffered greatly as aresult of this blockade and many chose to leave the Bogside and Creggan ghetto's. Oh yes, it was illegal. Had it been legal it would have retained proper Law and Order and not the law of the paramilitary. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Watch and learn, you might even see yourself! Free Derry..not so free! -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh so now the video camera lies? Hooded Paramilitaries parading around Free Derry like the local milkman....yea that's really legal and instills much confidence. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Prove it then because the video and many others speak for themself? Where were its Laws registered, where were its borders, where did it get its finances.....must I go on. An illegal entity within the British State run and controlled by terrorist thugs. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit.....It currently has a majority nationalist population. The nationalists first won a majority of seats in the 1920 local elections. Despite this, the Ulster Unionist Party regained control of the local council, Londonderry Corporation, from 1923 onwards.
This is fact, the city did not always have a majority Nationalist population, we have already had this argument apparently. The rest of the edit is proper English paragraphing wit no content changes. Please discuss if you can. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Not applicable as I am sure you and BigYin will keep these pages updated. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:29, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
You can disgree all you like but it is the Wikipedia rules that count. Currently stays as far as I am concerned unless someone can show otherwise according to WIKIPEDIA rules. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit.....1. legally redrawing the constituency boundaries, refered to by Nationalists as gerrymandering, ensuring that the South Ward, with a nationalist majority, returned eight councillors while the much smaller North Ward and Waterside Ward, with unionist majorities, returned twelve councillors between them. The term gerrymandering is commonly used by Republicans and Nationalists to support their views on Northern Ireland election results. Many noted geographers and historians including Professor John H. Whyte have disagreed [1] [2]. They have argued that the electoral boundaries for the Parliament of Northern Ireland were not gerrymandered to a greater level than that produced by any single-winner election system, and that the actual number of Nationalist MPs barely changed under the revised system.
The term legally has been inserted to show to the reader that this was not some illegal method used by the Unionist Authorities. They were entitled to use any legal means at their disposal and did so.
The phrase refered to by Nationalists as gerrymandering has been inserted to show the reader that this term is unique to Catholics and Nationalists in Northern Ireland. No self-respecting Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist would ever refer to such a term or accept that it ever applied to them.
The phrase The term gerrymandering is commonly used by Republicans and Nationalists to support their views on Northern Ireland election results has been added to show the reader that only Republicans/Nationalists complain of such activity. Maybe they should consider the fact that the Catholic vote was split between the SDLP and Sinn Féin which accounted for some lost seats in the elections.
The comment Many noted geographers and historians including Professor John H. Whyte have disagreed [3] [4]. They have argued that the electoral boundaries for the Parliament of Northern Ireland were not gerrymandered to a greater level than that produced by any single-winner election system, and that the actual number of Nationalist MPs barely changed under the revised system gives the reader confirmation that the so-called gerrymander effect wasn't all that it was supposed to be. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:45, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh but there is because your edit implies that it was an illegal act intended to disenfranchise the Catholics. Any stramnger to NI politics would not necessarily know that it was a legal act. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It does no harm to let the uninformed reader know the broader picture. So-called gerrymandering or the redrawing of the political boundaries as I prefer to call it effected the city both at local and at Parliamentary level thus it is appropriate and proper to include this edit. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I see there have been multiple attempts by an editor to claim the sentence "Both IRA's were asked, and agreed, to suspend operations on that day to ensure the march passed off peacefully" is contradicted by Saville, this is not the case. Saville found the British Army fired first, contradicting the long-held belief that the first shot was fired by an Official IRA sniper acting against orders, someone who was immediately told to stop firing from memory. That one or both IRAs opened fire *after* the British Army started stooting people has no bearing on the sentence in question. They were asked to suspend operations so the match could pass off peacefully, they agreed to do so, and when the British Army started shooting people (ie - when the chance of the march passing off peacefully had vanished) they returned fire. No contradiction there, although I will say the article could possibly benefit from a sentence explaining that the IRA did open fire after the British Army.... 2 lines of K 303 11:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know when those "former country" and "states and territories" categories were added. They didn't do any great harm, but the former country infobox is inappropriate. Free Derry wasn't a country. It didn't have a declaration of independence, it didn't have a government and it didn't have a capital (how could a section of a city have a city for a capital?). I am removing the infobox, and I don't think it needs to be replaced with anything. I am replacing the cats with "establishments" and "disestablishments" for the moment. If anybody knows of an appropriate cat for no-go areas, that would be better. Scolaire ( talk) 07:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
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The Irish translation appears to fail WP:IMOS#In-article_use. No evidence it's the common name or well known. Source doesn't prove it's a valid translation, only a phrase that's used in this particular source. Needs a source that proves the Irish translation is actually commonly used, which doesn't appear to be the case. Canterbury Tail talk 17:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
![]() | Free Derry has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||
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![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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I think this article is highly POV. To say "equal voting rights did not exist" is technically inaccurate, although the system was generally considered to have been weighted in favour of the Protestant majority. I don't believe any of the civil rights associations were ever 'banned' by anyone, nor do I believe 'beaten on the streets' is reflective of the situation, not to mention that it is highly emotive language.
The first half of the article needs a rewrite that is more balanced... -- Breadandcheese 17:36, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a massively important event in irish history , it needs to be expanded greatly ( Gnevin 22:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC))
Irish history? Northern Ireland is part of Britain! I'm sick of reading "British this and British that" on this page such as British Home Secretary, British Army, British troops, this wasn't a foreign country that they were involved in, it was and is a part of Britain. Adding British is entirely inappropriate and NPOV and i'm removing the propaganda. YourPTR! 20:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I have edited and expanded the paragraph on the Samuel Devenny attack as the original text was written with a political slant and not in an encyclopedic way. In editeing and expanding it I have added the official documented statements of the reason why RUC officers decided to try and enter the property and what is alledged to have caused the resultant attack on the family. It is also wise to point out that officially Mr Devenny's death remains by natural causes and the statement in the article which used the term murder, while highly emotive, is not officially accurate. As an article wiki Free Derry is not supposed to present opinions on what happened as seems to have been the case in the Mr Devenny paragraph. Instead it can only present encyclopedic fact. While appreciating that the deaths of victims in the Northern Ireland troubles is, as stated before, highly emotive and often tinted by political opinion, within wiki it should remain purely factual.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.202.136.227 ( talk • contribs) 21:05 (UTC), 27 June 2007.
I am moving the following paragraph to here. I have been unable to find any mention of the story elsewhere. It can be restored if a verifiable source is cited:
One major issue of the time was the inclusion of the Foyle Road area, which was considered to be approximately 25% Protestant. Some simply packed their bags and abandoned their homes in the hope of being given housing in the Waterside of the city but others, who owned their homes or held mortgages, were either unwilling or unable to leave. The action came to a head in January 1970 when members of the Provisional IRA burst into the dwellings of the remaining Protestants and issued them with a warning that if they did not leave within twelve hours they would be shot. The attacks infuriated the members of the Official IRA, many of whom had regarded the Protestants of the Foyle Road as neighbours and friends before the troubles. During the next day members of the Oficial IRA visited those who were still in their homes and assured them that no harm would come to them but that wider events had made their staying in Foyle Road impossible. Despite the dwindling power of the Official IRA the residents were protected from attack during a protracted negotiation with the council who between 1970 and 1976 compulsarily purchased the properties, for a fraction of their value, and rehoused the residents in the Waterside.
Scolaire 18:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:04, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The Gay Pride story is now eight months old. I'm moving it from its current place to a footnote, including the link to the BBC story. It's definitely time that the pink wall pic was removed; it gives the impression that the article is about Gay Pride. Scolaire ( talk) 14:45, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
More to follow...
Perhaps include the death of the fourteenth somehow? I'm aware he was killed before 1 Para moved in. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Undoubtedly true, possibly add a direct quote from someone about how it was increased? I've seen plenty in books, I'll try and find one myself. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Although "local boy" is pretty much common usage, there's probably a slightly more formal and encyclopedic alternative? (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
Official SF? Probably best to clarify that. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
A bit about the scale of the operation wouldn't go amiss, it was the biggest Army operation since the Suez crisis. Possibly expand "the IRA took the decision not to resist it" to add slightly more context.
Possibly expand that slightly. "incident in Belfast" is vague, and only invites the reader to wonder what sort of incident but doesn't tell them. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 11:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC))
I'll take a look at the rest later, but it's certainly a huge improvement and an easy B class. One Night In Hackney 303 19:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Few more thoughts...
Merge the "Name and location" section. The name can probably go in the background section, less sure about whether that's an appropriate place to merge the location, but I'm never keen on tiny sections when you've got much bigger ones if they can be avoided. (Done.
Scolaire (
talk)
10:57, 13 September 2008 (UTC))
Possibly a bit more about gerrymandering. From memory the Catholic wards returned less councillors that the Protestant ward(s?), despite being numerically larger, thereby ensuring permanent control. It's got some good detail already, but doesn't explain it well enough. As it's talking about waiting lists in that section, I seem to remember a famous example (was it Michelle Gildernew's mother?) of a Catholic being refused a council house/flat that was given to the secretary of a Unionist councillor? Details may be slightly off on that, so correct me if I'm wrong. Think that would be a good example to add. (Done, but I left out Gildernew's family because they weren't in Derry. Scolaire ( talk) 14:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC))
Apprentice Boys march. Perhaps a bit about them deliberately organising the march for the same day to force the issue? It's referenced in the NICRA article, I remember referencing it. (Done. Scolaire ( talk) 23:26, 14 April 2008 (UTC))
Burntollet. "anti-civil rights counter-demonstrators" is a bit vague, let's call a spade a spade and include Loyalist, plus the "off-duty" RUC and B-Specials that were there too. One Night In Hackney 303 21:57, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
There is an automated peer review at Talk:Free Derry/Automated peer review. Scolaire ( talk) 14:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
Londonderry has not always had a majority Nationalist population. This is easily verified by the various census reports now available on-line such as this one from 1659. 1659 Census -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 02:35, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
I would certainly agree with this, the city was conceived and constructed as Londonderry and to give it the name of the adjacent hamlet of Derry is incorrect. Just because incomers from Donegal called it Doire and later Derry (lack of proper English) doesn't make it correct. The city Council may change their name but the city is properly and legally called Londonderry and Wikipedia should reflect this if it wants to be taken seriously as a genuine encylopedia.-- 87.115.13.130 ( talk) 19:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed. Wikipedia:Verifiability is one of Wikipedia's core content policies.-- Domer48 'fenian' 19:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone hold a particular view on this matter and can point to appropriate links one way or the other? -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 02:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
What are you on about, with your "The truth does hurt"? Your "Original content" was removed per WP:SOAP and WP:TPG, and will continue to be removed. Now provide sources per WP:V and WP:RS to support your assertions. -- Domer48 'fenian' 14:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
The 1961 census taken in Londonderry revealed that the birth rate in the South Ward, at 21.2 per 000 was almost double that of the Northern average, 40% of the population there were under 15 and that 80% of births in Derry were to Catholic mothers. The Museum of Free Derry
I've semi-protected this article due to the roving IPs that are causing edit wars on non-consensus, non-referenced changes. Canterbury Tail talk 23:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The FACTS speak VOLUMES!...watch this space!! -- 78.33.101.58 ( talk) 09:40, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Obviously, "It has always had a majority nationalist population" was wrong, and needed to be corrected. I have some issues, though, with the current version. Firstly, and most importantly, "nationalist majority" has been changed to "Catholic majority". This article has consistently made the point that communal strife in Derry was based on the opposition of nationalist residents to the unionist system and was not religious in nature, and of course one of the key figures in the 1969 Free Derry was a Protestant, Ivan Cooper. Secondly, the insertion of details about the 1920 election and Hugh O'Doherty's election as mayor breaks the connection between the nationalist majority among the population and the unionist majority on the corporation, making the paragraph difficult to follow. I propose to edit the paragraph as follows:
Any objections? Scolaire ( talk) 10:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit to...Free Derry ( Irish: Saor Doire) was an illegal self-declared autonomous nationalist area of Derry, County Londonderry, Northern Ireland, between 1969 and 1972.
Free Derry was an illegal entity. Civil disobedience, street violence towards the legitimate autorities, threats, intimidation and evictions for anyone who opposed the situation was the order of the day. This was a no-go zone for the Police and British Army for much time because of the level of violence being generated by those whose wishes they wanted to impose on everyone else regardless of their religion and creed.
The city lies in the County Londonderry, it is quite correct to add this label. Please discuss if you can. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 12:50, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Watch and learn... FREE Derry footage -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Everyone knows that it was an illegal blockade. This so-called self-proclaimed entity drew its funds from the British Government on one hand yet defied its authority on the other by the use of the gun and the petrol bomb. Free Derry was nothing but a pro-Republican ghetto run by Martin McGuiness and his hencemen of the Provisional IRA. The ordinary people suffered greatly as aresult of this blockade and many chose to leave the Bogside and Creggan ghetto's. Oh yes, it was illegal. Had it been legal it would have retained proper Law and Order and not the law of the paramilitary. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Watch and learn, you might even see yourself! Free Derry..not so free! -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:25, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh so now the video camera lies? Hooded Paramilitaries parading around Free Derry like the local milkman....yea that's really legal and instills much confidence. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Prove it then because the video and many others speak for themself? Where were its Laws registered, where were its borders, where did it get its finances.....must I go on. An illegal entity within the British State run and controlled by terrorist thugs. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:34, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit.....It currently has a majority nationalist population. The nationalists first won a majority of seats in the 1920 local elections. Despite this, the Ulster Unionist Party regained control of the local council, Londonderry Corporation, from 1923 onwards.
This is fact, the city did not always have a majority Nationalist population, we have already had this argument apparently. The rest of the edit is proper English paragraphing wit no content changes. Please discuss if you can. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Not applicable as I am sure you and BigYin will keep these pages updated. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:29, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
You can disgree all you like but it is the Wikipedia rules that count. Currently stays as far as I am concerned unless someone can show otherwise according to WIKIPEDIA rules. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Lets consider my edit.....1. legally redrawing the constituency boundaries, refered to by Nationalists as gerrymandering, ensuring that the South Ward, with a nationalist majority, returned eight councillors while the much smaller North Ward and Waterside Ward, with unionist majorities, returned twelve councillors between them. The term gerrymandering is commonly used by Republicans and Nationalists to support their views on Northern Ireland election results. Many noted geographers and historians including Professor John H. Whyte have disagreed [1] [2]. They have argued that the electoral boundaries for the Parliament of Northern Ireland were not gerrymandered to a greater level than that produced by any single-winner election system, and that the actual number of Nationalist MPs barely changed under the revised system.
The term legally has been inserted to show to the reader that this was not some illegal method used by the Unionist Authorities. They were entitled to use any legal means at their disposal and did so.
The phrase refered to by Nationalists as gerrymandering has been inserted to show the reader that this term is unique to Catholics and Nationalists in Northern Ireland. No self-respecting Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist would ever refer to such a term or accept that it ever applied to them.
The phrase The term gerrymandering is commonly used by Republicans and Nationalists to support their views on Northern Ireland election results has been added to show the reader that only Republicans/Nationalists complain of such activity. Maybe they should consider the fact that the Catholic vote was split between the SDLP and Sinn Féin which accounted for some lost seats in the elections.
The comment Many noted geographers and historians including Professor John H. Whyte have disagreed [3] [4]. They have argued that the electoral boundaries for the Parliament of Northern Ireland were not gerrymandered to a greater level than that produced by any single-winner election system, and that the actual number of Nationalist MPs barely changed under the revised system gives the reader confirmation that the so-called gerrymander effect wasn't all that it was supposed to be. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 13:45, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh but there is because your edit implies that it was an illegal act intended to disenfranchise the Catholics. Any stramnger to NI politics would not necessarily know that it was a legal act. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
It does no harm to let the uninformed reader know the broader picture. So-called gerrymandering or the redrawing of the political boundaries as I prefer to call it effected the city both at local and at Parliamentary level thus it is appropriate and proper to include this edit. -- The Maiden City ( talk) 14:47, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I see there have been multiple attempts by an editor to claim the sentence "Both IRA's were asked, and agreed, to suspend operations on that day to ensure the march passed off peacefully" is contradicted by Saville, this is not the case. Saville found the British Army fired first, contradicting the long-held belief that the first shot was fired by an Official IRA sniper acting against orders, someone who was immediately told to stop firing from memory. That one or both IRAs opened fire *after* the British Army started stooting people has no bearing on the sentence in question. They were asked to suspend operations so the match could pass off peacefully, they agreed to do so, and when the British Army started shooting people (ie - when the chance of the march passing off peacefully had vanished) they returned fire. No contradiction there, although I will say the article could possibly benefit from a sentence explaining that the IRA did open fire after the British Army.... 2 lines of K 303 11:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know when those "former country" and "states and territories" categories were added. They didn't do any great harm, but the former country infobox is inappropriate. Free Derry wasn't a country. It didn't have a declaration of independence, it didn't have a government and it didn't have a capital (how could a section of a city have a city for a capital?). I am removing the infobox, and I don't think it needs to be replaced with anything. I am replacing the cats with "establishments" and "disestablishments" for the moment. If anybody knows of an appropriate cat for no-go areas, that would be better. Scolaire ( talk) 07:42, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
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The Irish translation appears to fail WP:IMOS#In-article_use. No evidence it's the common name or well known. Source doesn't prove it's a valid translation, only a phrase that's used in this particular source. Needs a source that proves the Irish translation is actually commonly used, which doesn't appear to be the case. Canterbury Tail talk 17:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)