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A fact from Fred Bonine appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 8 June 2012 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The blog post [1] may be of interest to editors of this article; in particular, it calls into question many of the (reliably sourced!) claims in the article. (It is obviously not usable as a reliable source, but perhaps it provides some basis for identifying other sources.) -- JBL ( talk) 01:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
I wrote the blog post linked above. There is no record anywhere of Bonine running a time of 10.8 in an 110-yard race until 40 years after the fact, when newspaper articles generated by publicity for the projected Dempsey-Wills fight in 1926 made this claim. How those articles count as "reliable sources" is unclear.
The fastest time anyone ever claimed Bonine ran prior to the publicity blurbs 40 years later was 11.0. This time was not accepted by as legitimate by the compilers of unofficial world records -- official records via the ITAF did not exist prior to 1912 -- so Bonine was never credited with any kind of record in the world of track and field.
The claims regarding how many patients he saw are wildly improbable on their face, as I point out in the blog post, but are not as conclusively debunked by examining the extant historical record. 2601:281:8180:B0:2858:91ED:458C:4E59 ( talk) 05:37, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Paul Campos
Has anybody ever bothered to actually run the numbers to see how absurdly implausible it is that any doctor could ever directly treat 1.5 million patients over the course of their career? The article says that his career spanned "nearly 40 years". Let's go ahead and give him the full 40 and see how this works out. In order to treat 1.5 million unique patients, this doctor would have needed to see 37,500 new patients every single year of his career. Let's assume this guy was a real workhorse and put in 60 hours a week, every single week, for 40 straight years without ever once taking any time off for anything. That's more than 12 patients per hour, every hour of every workday, with no breaks for the restroom and no meals. And also no repeat patients, ever. It's not plausible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DTG.stl.314 ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Bonine's obituary reported that he reputedly treated as many as 517 patients in one day and saw 200 patients in a day. Hundreds were said to have lined up each dayis repetitive and the distinction in the first sentence is unclear, and I'm not sure I can parse
Timekeeping was questioned by track followers at the time and Bonine was handily beaten in a race with Harvard's Wendell Baker, who was also considered the record holder at 11.2 seconds until 1910. Any further ideas for improving things would be wonderful. -- JBL ( talk) 20:37, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Belated, but I disagree that the blog post is unusable. The key thing about blog posts is who wrote them - a random person on the Internet, or someone without expertise? Paul Campos has their own Wikipedia article, and I think we can unironically say that he's produced the majority of 21st century literature on Fred Bonine scholarship. Given that he appears to have actually researched the issue rather than made stuff up, I'd argue that the blog post is citable directly in this article, and can be used to call out certain claims as unlikely. (More generally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary sources - if we had local newspaper articles from 1920 about how some Iowa obstetrician could walk on water, we wouldn't necessarily just report that unadorned.) SnowFire ( talk) 09:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Fred Bonine appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 8 June 2012 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The blog post [1] may be of interest to editors of this article; in particular, it calls into question many of the (reliably sourced!) claims in the article. (It is obviously not usable as a reliable source, but perhaps it provides some basis for identifying other sources.) -- JBL ( talk) 01:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
I wrote the blog post linked above. There is no record anywhere of Bonine running a time of 10.8 in an 110-yard race until 40 years after the fact, when newspaper articles generated by publicity for the projected Dempsey-Wills fight in 1926 made this claim. How those articles count as "reliable sources" is unclear.
The fastest time anyone ever claimed Bonine ran prior to the publicity blurbs 40 years later was 11.0. This time was not accepted by as legitimate by the compilers of unofficial world records -- official records via the ITAF did not exist prior to 1912 -- so Bonine was never credited with any kind of record in the world of track and field.
The claims regarding how many patients he saw are wildly improbable on their face, as I point out in the blog post, but are not as conclusively debunked by examining the extant historical record. 2601:281:8180:B0:2858:91ED:458C:4E59 ( talk) 05:37, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Paul Campos
Has anybody ever bothered to actually run the numbers to see how absurdly implausible it is that any doctor could ever directly treat 1.5 million patients over the course of their career? The article says that his career spanned "nearly 40 years". Let's go ahead and give him the full 40 and see how this works out. In order to treat 1.5 million unique patients, this doctor would have needed to see 37,500 new patients every single year of his career. Let's assume this guy was a real workhorse and put in 60 hours a week, every single week, for 40 straight years without ever once taking any time off for anything. That's more than 12 patients per hour, every hour of every workday, with no breaks for the restroom and no meals. And also no repeat patients, ever. It's not plausible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DTG.stl.314 ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Bonine's obituary reported that he reputedly treated as many as 517 patients in one day and saw 200 patients in a day. Hundreds were said to have lined up each dayis repetitive and the distinction in the first sentence is unclear, and I'm not sure I can parse
Timekeeping was questioned by track followers at the time and Bonine was handily beaten in a race with Harvard's Wendell Baker, who was also considered the record holder at 11.2 seconds until 1910. Any further ideas for improving things would be wonderful. -- JBL ( talk) 20:37, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Belated, but I disagree that the blog post is unusable. The key thing about blog posts is who wrote them - a random person on the Internet, or someone without expertise? Paul Campos has their own Wikipedia article, and I think we can unironically say that he's produced the majority of 21st century literature on Fred Bonine scholarship. Given that he appears to have actually researched the issue rather than made stuff up, I'd argue that the blog post is citable directly in this article, and can be used to call out certain claims as unlikely. (More generally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary sources - if we had local newspaper articles from 1920 about how some Iowa obstetrician could walk on water, we wouldn't necessarily just report that unadorned.) SnowFire ( talk) 09:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)