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Reverted article body replacement where text was taken from [1] -- Whpq 23:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
http://westerby.blogspot.com/2002_04_01_archive.html#11354948 http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0203&L=twatch-l&D=1&F=P&P=36816
"staff had been infiltrated by US and UK security services (see Covert Action interview below) a claim hotly disputed by many in the human-rights community. " This sentence appeared in reference to Boyle's interview with Dennis Bernstein. Although there is a SUGGESTION that there may indeed by intelligence operatives manipulating AI, Boyle doesnt dwell on this suggestion, provide names, etc. He merely provides evidence on the different process undertaken by AI when dealing with (1) the "babies out of incubators" hoax (where AI played a leading role) and (2) its sabotage actions when referring to the massacre at Jenin. The sentence was cut because it is an issue of accuracy. Read the interview! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antidotto ( talk • contribs) 15:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
There is not a single reference which can prove this. Professor Boyle did not even comment those themes...-- Thom977 ( talk) 02:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
n/t. -- Belchman ( talk) 05:24, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hyperionsteel and No More Mr Nice Guy,
You have both either deleted or heavily edited the following excerpt, stating that youtube is not a reliable source.
"Furthermore, in a recent interview, Boyle stated: “I spoke with the head military lawyer for IDF, Joel Zinger. You know, I spent two weeks here. It’s clear you people are inflicting Nuremberg crimes on the Palestinians, exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews. What’s your explanation? He said, ‘Military necessity.’ Notice that he didn’t disagree with me! I said that argument was rejected at Nuremberg when the lawyers of the Nazis made them. He said, ‘Well, we have public relations people in the United States, and they handle these matters for us.’" [16]"
Hyperionsteel, after audaciously questioning my intelligence, you requested that a more reliable source would be a transcript of the interview. Apparently you did not even go to the source before questioning its integrity, because if you had, you would find no reason to question whether or not Boyle made this statement. Furthermore, you went ahead and summarized the quote, supposedly "to make it less POV". You summarized it as such:
"In an interview posted on Youtube, Boyle recounted a conversation with Joel Zinger, the head military lawyer for IDF. Boyle claimed that he had told Zinger that Israel was inflicting crimes against the Palestinians similar to those committed against the Jews by the Nazis during World War II, to which Zinger reportedly replied that the actions of the Israeli military are " military necessity." Boyle argued that this argument was rejected at Nuremberg when the lawyers of the Nazis made them, to which Zinger reportedly replied "Well, we have public relations people in the United States, and they handle these matters for us." [1]"
claimed and reportedly do not make it less POV, neither does "In an article posted on YouTube".
Regardless, the reliable source example page states, " In some cases, video clips published on YouTube may be acceptable as primary sources if their authenticity can be confirmed." Furthermore, the no original research page instructs, "Policy: Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.[4] Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source."
The quote comes from a 'video clip published on YouTube.' It is a primary source. Primary sources may be used on Wikipedia to make 'straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source.' The above paragraph does exactly that, without any interpretation. Anybody can click on the source. And once they click on the link, assuming that they have functional eyes and ears, they can verify that these were Boyle's exact words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VivaWikipedia ( talk • contribs) 01:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
The format (or outline) of this article is scattershot at best. The article is wildly incomplete and out of date. It is difficult to pick apart Boyle's anti-semitism from his peacemaking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.80.113 ( talk) 20:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
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Seems like a quote farm on this person, and the sources are dicey. Coretheapple ( talk) 13:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Doug Weller: this conspiracy theory stuff looks at first glance to be a violation of BLP. Note that we use only one source, which is an opinion piece (see the bottom of the article, it says: "The views and opinions expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Forward".) Onceinawhile ( talk) 13:48, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
If Dr. Francis Boyle is a doctor and professor isn't he a source, and not a source of controversy? -- Massintel ( talk) 05:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
His theory is (among others) backed by a new study at Hamburg University: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Hamburger-Forscher-Coronavirus-stammt-wohl-aus-Labor,corona6764.html - Maybe someone wants to add this? (I'm not a native English speaker.) --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.104.185.16 ( talk) 15:37, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Frances Boyle. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 28#Frances Boyle until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Bearcat ( talk) 21:52, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Reverted article body replacement where text was taken from [1] -- Whpq 23:52, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
http://westerby.blogspot.com/2002_04_01_archive.html#11354948 http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0203&L=twatch-l&D=1&F=P&P=36816
"staff had been infiltrated by US and UK security services (see Covert Action interview below) a claim hotly disputed by many in the human-rights community. " This sentence appeared in reference to Boyle's interview with Dennis Bernstein. Although there is a SUGGESTION that there may indeed by intelligence operatives manipulating AI, Boyle doesnt dwell on this suggestion, provide names, etc. He merely provides evidence on the different process undertaken by AI when dealing with (1) the "babies out of incubators" hoax (where AI played a leading role) and (2) its sabotage actions when referring to the massacre at Jenin. The sentence was cut because it is an issue of accuracy. Read the interview! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antidotto ( talk • contribs) 15:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
There is not a single reference which can prove this. Professor Boyle did not even comment those themes...-- Thom977 ( talk) 02:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
n/t. -- Belchman ( talk) 05:24, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hyperionsteel and No More Mr Nice Guy,
You have both either deleted or heavily edited the following excerpt, stating that youtube is not a reliable source.
"Furthermore, in a recent interview, Boyle stated: “I spoke with the head military lawyer for IDF, Joel Zinger. You know, I spent two weeks here. It’s clear you people are inflicting Nuremberg crimes on the Palestinians, exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews. What’s your explanation? He said, ‘Military necessity.’ Notice that he didn’t disagree with me! I said that argument was rejected at Nuremberg when the lawyers of the Nazis made them. He said, ‘Well, we have public relations people in the United States, and they handle these matters for us.’" [16]"
Hyperionsteel, after audaciously questioning my intelligence, you requested that a more reliable source would be a transcript of the interview. Apparently you did not even go to the source before questioning its integrity, because if you had, you would find no reason to question whether or not Boyle made this statement. Furthermore, you went ahead and summarized the quote, supposedly "to make it less POV". You summarized it as such:
"In an interview posted on Youtube, Boyle recounted a conversation with Joel Zinger, the head military lawyer for IDF. Boyle claimed that he had told Zinger that Israel was inflicting crimes against the Palestinians similar to those committed against the Jews by the Nazis during World War II, to which Zinger reportedly replied that the actions of the Israeli military are " military necessity." Boyle argued that this argument was rejected at Nuremberg when the lawyers of the Nazis made them, to which Zinger reportedly replied "Well, we have public relations people in the United States, and they handle these matters for us." [1]"
claimed and reportedly do not make it less POV, neither does "In an article posted on YouTube".
Regardless, the reliable source example page states, " In some cases, video clips published on YouTube may be acceptable as primary sources if their authenticity can be confirmed." Furthermore, the no original research page instructs, "Policy: Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reliably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.[4] Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source."
The quote comes from a 'video clip published on YouTube.' It is a primary source. Primary sources may be used on Wikipedia to make 'straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that any educated person, with access to the source but without specialist knowledge, will be able to verify are supported by the source.' The above paragraph does exactly that, without any interpretation. Anybody can click on the source. And once they click on the link, assuming that they have functional eyes and ears, they can verify that these were Boyle's exact words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VivaWikipedia ( talk • contribs) 01:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
The format (or outline) of this article is scattershot at best. The article is wildly incomplete and out of date. It is difficult to pick apart Boyle's anti-semitism from his peacemaking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.58.80.113 ( talk) 20:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
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Seems like a quote farm on this person, and the sources are dicey. Coretheapple ( talk) 13:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
@ Doug Weller: this conspiracy theory stuff looks at first glance to be a violation of BLP. Note that we use only one source, which is an opinion piece (see the bottom of the article, it says: "The views and opinions expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Forward".) Onceinawhile ( talk) 13:48, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
If Dr. Francis Boyle is a doctor and professor isn't he a source, and not a source of controversy? -- Massintel ( talk) 05:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
His theory is (among others) backed by a new study at Hamburg University: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/hamburg/Hamburger-Forscher-Coronavirus-stammt-wohl-aus-Labor,corona6764.html - Maybe someone wants to add this? (I'm not a native English speaker.) --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.104.185.16 ( talk) 15:37, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Frances Boyle. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 28#Frances Boyle until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Bearcat ( talk) 21:52, 28 April 2021 (UTC)