This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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A fact from Frances C. Fairman appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 4 March 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The result was: promoted by
Edge3 (
talk) 04:15, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Created by Storye book ( talk). Self-nominated at 18:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC).
Questions raised at WT:DYK Admin please remove Frances C. Fairman from Queue 6 about this nomination. — Maile ( talk) 14:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Frances C. Fairman, an only child, was born into a financially comfortable family, capable of paying for her art training. She grew up on a farm where she had the opportunity to observe animals. Her father was Samuel Creed Fairman ( Lynsted 1791 – Lynsted 24 April 1858), [1] [2] a farmer and magistrate of Millers House, Lynsted, [3] [4] who owned 340 acres and employed 21 men and five boys. [5] Samuel Creed Fairman also owned Union Mill, a smock mill which stood in 1.5 acres (0.61 hectares) at Lynsted until the early 1870s; it had two pairs of stones to grind flour. [6] [7] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Fairman's mother was Christian or Christiana Gosselin ( Birchanger ca.1798 – Kensington 28 September 1873). [5] [8] [9] She married Samuel Creed Fairman on 30 January 1836 at Faversham. [10] Christiana's father (F.C. Fairman's grandfather) was General Gerard Gosselin (1769 – 11 June 1859) of Mount Ospringe in Kent. [10] [11] Her uncle (F.C. Fairman's great-uncle) was Admiral Thomas le Marchant Gosselin. [nb 1] [6] Christiana's grandfather (Frances C. Fairman's great-grandfather) was the Guernsey-based artist and engraver Joshua Gosselin (1739–1813). [12] [13] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Christiana and Samuel Creed Fairman are buried in a vault under a transept of the Church of St Mary the Virgin, Teynham. [14] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Before removing a whole section, please discuss it here so that you can find out why the section is there in the first place.
All biographies of high-achieving individuals beg the question as to whether any part of their achievement was assisted by nature, nuture, something else, or a mix. Jack Kennedy is a good example of that. Knowing his family background helps us understand the man and his achievements, however many other contributory factors there may be.
In the modern Western world and especially in the US, family background has come to mean less in the making of a career, because social divisions such as class, trade or income have lessened considerably. However in 19th-century England and Ireland, class, trade and income were far, far more influential, and everybody knew that those things mattered. In Fairman's case, growing up on a farm might be influential to an animal artist, because she could learn to draw animals from a young age. She could watch them move, and learn how animals can express themselves with whole-body-movements, not primarily facial expression. You have to live with animals to learn that fully.
The family had money, both within the household, and in the hands of relatives who lived in big houses. If Fairman had not had that sort of background, it is far less likely that she could have studied painting in Paris. Without that study and without making that sort of artistic social connection, she would have had far less chance of achieving such a high-ranking customer base, whose existence in turn would have sold more pictures to others who could afford them.
Many families, then and now, discourage their children from studying art on the grounds that it is difficult to make a living that way. However this family would have known that they were descended from Joshua Gosselin, and that fact may have been influential in the family decision to allow Fairman to study in Paris. We have to remember that in the 19th century most unmarried women remained under the influence of their family even in adulthood.
Of course this information about the usefulness of the background section of the article has not been included in the article, because WP requires cited facts only. So we put the cited facts in there and allow the reader to reach their own conclusion. Without that basic information about her financially successful relatives and her farm background, the reader cannot begin to have a rounded picture of this biography subject.
When we write about 19th- or early 20th=century subjects, we understand that we cannot know everything about them, and also that their lives were lived differently and seen differently then. Much that the newspapers would tell us today, would be omitted from public reportage in those days. So the best thing we can do with the biography of someone like Fairman is to tell all that we can about them, leaving out as little as possible, in the hope that some details will lead to further research - then one day we may understand her better.
So please discuss on the talk page before unilaterally deciding to remove whole background sections. Creators of articles tend to include material which they believe is relevant to the subject. If you do not see that relevance, it may well be because you do not yet understand it. Storye book ( talk) 09:45, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
The class significance of the admiral and general, in the context of her dealings with the royal family, of which I've already explained the significance, should be obvious. We don't need a citation for that.It's not obvious, and if it's believed to be significant to this subject, then yes we will need a citation for it.
The burial place is useful for future researchers, because the gravestones will be evidence of the relationship of the parents to each other and of their dates. But that is not the purpose of this article. If one or both of the parents are notable, they can have their own articles to house details like these; if they are not, it does not belong.
Due to the tag, the article will now have to be withdrawn from DYK... Now WP will lose the DYK entry.That is not a requirement of the DYK process; the article could run with the tag in place, and doing so might help draw other perspectives into this conversation. Nikkimaria ( talk) 21:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
I have already requested removal from DYK. The tag would get a lot of unwarranted attention from people not primarily interested in the article content. I know what happens, I've been there. The section, if not parts of the rest of the article as well, would be diminished or even decimated. I want to improve the article, not see it destroyed. I have removed it from DYK to give me that chance of improving it, while I'm still working on it. I believe I can find a suitable citation for the significance of class (represented by the admiral etc.) to Fairman's career, but I need to think about it. Please don't expect me to work under pressure. Now please could I have a rest from this hounding, so that I can take time to work properly to improve that section? Storye book ( talk) 21:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Frances C. Fairman appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 4 March 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The result was: promoted by
Edge3 (
talk) 04:15, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Created by Storye book ( talk). Self-nominated at 18:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC).
Questions raised at WT:DYK Admin please remove Frances C. Fairman from Queue 6 about this nomination. — Maile ( talk) 14:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Frances C. Fairman, an only child, was born into a financially comfortable family, capable of paying for her art training. She grew up on a farm where she had the opportunity to observe animals. Her father was Samuel Creed Fairman ( Lynsted 1791 – Lynsted 24 April 1858), [1] [2] a farmer and magistrate of Millers House, Lynsted, [3] [4] who owned 340 acres and employed 21 men and five boys. [5] Samuel Creed Fairman also owned Union Mill, a smock mill which stood in 1.5 acres (0.61 hectares) at Lynsted until the early 1870s; it had two pairs of stones to grind flour. [6] [7] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Fairman's mother was Christian or Christiana Gosselin ( Birchanger ca.1798 – Kensington 28 September 1873). [5] [8] [9] She married Samuel Creed Fairman on 30 January 1836 at Faversham. [10] Christiana's father (F.C. Fairman's grandfather) was General Gerard Gosselin (1769 – 11 June 1859) of Mount Ospringe in Kent. [10] [11] Her uncle (F.C. Fairman's great-uncle) was Admiral Thomas le Marchant Gosselin. [nb 1] [6] Christiana's grandfather (Frances C. Fairman's great-grandfather) was the Guernsey-based artist and engraver Joshua Gosselin (1739–1813). [12] [13] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Christiana and Samuel Creed Fairman are buried in a vault under a transept of the Church of St Mary the Virgin, Teynham. [14] Storye book ( talk) 15:54, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Before removing a whole section, please discuss it here so that you can find out why the section is there in the first place.
All biographies of high-achieving individuals beg the question as to whether any part of their achievement was assisted by nature, nuture, something else, or a mix. Jack Kennedy is a good example of that. Knowing his family background helps us understand the man and his achievements, however many other contributory factors there may be.
In the modern Western world and especially in the US, family background has come to mean less in the making of a career, because social divisions such as class, trade or income have lessened considerably. However in 19th-century England and Ireland, class, trade and income were far, far more influential, and everybody knew that those things mattered. In Fairman's case, growing up on a farm might be influential to an animal artist, because she could learn to draw animals from a young age. She could watch them move, and learn how animals can express themselves with whole-body-movements, not primarily facial expression. You have to live with animals to learn that fully.
The family had money, both within the household, and in the hands of relatives who lived in big houses. If Fairman had not had that sort of background, it is far less likely that she could have studied painting in Paris. Without that study and without making that sort of artistic social connection, she would have had far less chance of achieving such a high-ranking customer base, whose existence in turn would have sold more pictures to others who could afford them.
Many families, then and now, discourage their children from studying art on the grounds that it is difficult to make a living that way. However this family would have known that they were descended from Joshua Gosselin, and that fact may have been influential in the family decision to allow Fairman to study in Paris. We have to remember that in the 19th century most unmarried women remained under the influence of their family even in adulthood.
Of course this information about the usefulness of the background section of the article has not been included in the article, because WP requires cited facts only. So we put the cited facts in there and allow the reader to reach their own conclusion. Without that basic information about her financially successful relatives and her farm background, the reader cannot begin to have a rounded picture of this biography subject.
When we write about 19th- or early 20th=century subjects, we understand that we cannot know everything about them, and also that their lives were lived differently and seen differently then. Much that the newspapers would tell us today, would be omitted from public reportage in those days. So the best thing we can do with the biography of someone like Fairman is to tell all that we can about them, leaving out as little as possible, in the hope that some details will lead to further research - then one day we may understand her better.
So please discuss on the talk page before unilaterally deciding to remove whole background sections. Creators of articles tend to include material which they believe is relevant to the subject. If you do not see that relevance, it may well be because you do not yet understand it. Storye book ( talk) 09:45, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
The class significance of the admiral and general, in the context of her dealings with the royal family, of which I've already explained the significance, should be obvious. We don't need a citation for that.It's not obvious, and if it's believed to be significant to this subject, then yes we will need a citation for it.
The burial place is useful for future researchers, because the gravestones will be evidence of the relationship of the parents to each other and of their dates. But that is not the purpose of this article. If one or both of the parents are notable, they can have their own articles to house details like these; if they are not, it does not belong.
Due to the tag, the article will now have to be withdrawn from DYK... Now WP will lose the DYK entry.That is not a requirement of the DYK process; the article could run with the tag in place, and doing so might help draw other perspectives into this conversation. Nikkimaria ( talk) 21:48, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
I have already requested removal from DYK. The tag would get a lot of unwarranted attention from people not primarily interested in the article content. I know what happens, I've been there. The section, if not parts of the rest of the article as well, would be diminished or even decimated. I want to improve the article, not see it destroyed. I have removed it from DYK to give me that chance of improving it, while I'm still working on it. I believe I can find a suitable citation for the significance of class (represented by the admiral etc.) to Fairman's career, but I need to think about it. Please don't expect me to work under pressure. Now please could I have a rest from this hounding, so that I can take time to work properly to improve that section? Storye book ( talk) 21:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC)