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Something should be added about how the race determination is becoming obsolete or pointless. It's generalization about where ancestors came from...I dunno. I heard several lectures about this, but mostly what stuck in my head was something about diaspora. Ductapedaredevil 16:41, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I disagree, ancestry determination is a very vital part of Forensic Anthropology. Sustentacular 00:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)sustentacular
I agree with Ductapedaredevil on racial determination becoming obsolete. Seeing as race is a cultural construct, not a physical manifestation, a skull is not an accurate portrayal of one's ethnic heritage.
Jlskiba (
talk)
20:40, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
jlskiba 4:39, 2 November 2010
The idea of discrete races is a cultural construct, however, there is no denying that individuals with similar ancestral backgrounds (note, ancestry and ethnicity are different things) have similar skeletal features, most notably in the skull. Since "race" is something that society continually uses to describe people it stands to reason that when providing a biological profile to help identify a decedent that at least a vague racial category should be provided when possible. Not in the interest of perpetuating the idea of discrete races but to aid in the identification of unknown skeletal remains. Sustentacular 7:31 2 November 2010 (UTC)sustentacular
http://www.physanth.org/association/position-statements/biological-aspects-of-race/ Sustentacular 8:51 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Agree with Sustentacular. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 22:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I have added some FA's whose absence was glaringly obvious - Suchey and Brooks being the main ones. I also think that because there are so many Diplomates on the ABFA website that we should move away from chronological order and into alphabetical order - anyone object???
I also think we should include FA worldwide - maybe mentioning the role of FA in ICTY?
to whoever: please stop adding faafs to jerry melbye's name. the majority of the people on that list are aafs fellows, theres no need to add it to just his name. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Theanatomist (
talk •
contribs)
12:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I intend to add a section regarding techniques used when i have a minute to scan in some pics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theanatomist ( talk • contribs) 09:19, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I am just here to find out about Forensic Anthropology, but in the first paragraph it read: " One of the leading Forensic anthropologist today is Carlos Zambrano who is one of the inspirations behind the thrilling TV series Bones."
Shouldn't it be Kathy Reichs?
And the link to Carlos Zambrano brings me to a baseball pitcher. His age was also stated as (1700-2008).
I wonder if there is really such a notable forensic anthropologist, or did someone edit the page by mistake. I'll leave it to the experts. Okami ningen83 ( talk) 05:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a joke, don't worry about it.
~ Sustentacular (
talk)
23:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)sustentacular
Does anyone have a citations to validation studies on how well forensic antropologists actually categorize discovered skulls or other human remains in tests with human remains of known provenance? I see the article is tagged as needing more sources, and this is one important issue related to the topic of the article. More generally, are there sources like those listed on the Anthropology and Human Biology Citations page, posted in userspace for all wikipedians to share, that have to do with the specifically forensic issues in anthropology? You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 03:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Look, at wikipedia we have WP:V which requires that every piece of information is verifiable and sourced to reliable source. If information is not soiurced to a reliable source then it can be removed on sight. I am removing these names 1. because it is not sourced that they are forensic anthropolgists. 2. because it is not sourced that they are notable. In wikipedia notable of academics is determined by the criteria WP:ACADEMICS if you can supply a source that shows that each of these names are notable according to WP:ACADEMIC then the names can be included even if they don't have an article. ·Maunus·ƛ· 02:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
The narrative and examples are almost entirely from the U.S. It would be good to expand the coverage to the rest of the world. Cusop Dingle ( talk) 17:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
This list seems in bad shape. I can find no indication in the articles concerned that the following were forsensic anthropologists: Thomas Dwight, Aleš Hrdlička, Earnest Hooton, Wilton M. Krogman, Kewal Krishan. Are there any references to support this list? Cusop Dingle ( talk) 16:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
As others have mentioned before, the article is almost entirely about the USA and Canada. It needs to be expanded to cover other countries and continents and represent the subject globally. Otherwise I suggest moving the article to a title of Forensic anthropology in North America. FonsScientiae ( talk) 21:45, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
A move is premature and unnecessarily divisive. I agree that the article would benefit from more information regarding the field's history and application in other countries. To that end I would add:
Thank you for your suggestion regarding
Forensic anthropology. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a
wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top.
The Wikipedia community encourages you to
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Boneyard90 (
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00:12, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I notice that someone has added Temperance "Bones" Brennan to the list of notable anthropologists. Do we have any feeling or policy here about adding fictional characters to a list of notable people? -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:37, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I propose that information on forensic archaeology be merged into this page. Forensic archaeology is a recognized subfield of forensic anthropology and the forensic archaeology section on this page already has most of the information contained in the forensic archaeology article anyways. Including the small amount of other information present on the forensic archaeology article on this page shouldn't be a problem and shouldn't cause any undue weight issues. -- Stabila711 ( talk) 03:00, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Delldot ( talk · contribs) 22:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
I am working on this now, should have some comments for you in just a bit. delldot ∇. 22:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
An interesting and informative article! A lot of good work has gone into it. I will try to suppress my tendency to be an unbearably hardass reviewer but I do have some concerns about overall organization and some thoughts about areas that could use fleshing out. Hopefully it won't be too much work to address though.
These formulas, developed in the 1940s and refined by war, are still in use by modern forensic anthropologists.-- Stabila711 ( talk) 22:16, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
*I am going to do that then. Bass is known for the creation of the first body farm, Burns is known for her work in genocide cases, etc.
That is what I have for now! Let's continue the discussion as work progresses on the article. Thanks for all your hard work so far Stabila711! delldot ∇. 22:46, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
This is super close, I'm just trying to think of more questions to be sure the comprehensiveness standard is met. Here are some examples, but it may not make sense to answer them all. Just see if you think they are worth addressing.
Feel free to ignore these if you don't think they will add to the article. delldot ∇. 00:04, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Okay....I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. Perhaps someone can create a list article which has notable forensic anthropologists and just link to that? Least that way this article won't be a battleground to determine who is and who isn't notable....just a thought. If you feel we are better off not listing individuals here I'm fine with that.-- MONGO 23:42, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I think this sentence in the "Early history" section needs to be rewritten.
I agree that phrenology is a pseudoscience, but this sentence is overly broad because Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder has specific physical characteristics and is associated with higher than average levels of criminal behavior. See http://fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/documents/WYNK_Criminal_Justice5.pdf and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533996 Waters.Justin ( talk) 02:24, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
An old section, but regarding the above, it should be mentioned that the field of phrenology and criminal anthropology and the assessing of an individual's propensity for crime by studying physical characteristics, in fact has gotten a new scientifically supported boost from China, with the help of AI.
By feeding ID photos of convicted criminals and noncriminal citizens into AI and machine learning algorithms, they were able to identify certain facial features that predict criminality. The program identified those with a criminal record with 89.51 percent accuracy.
I quote:
"Automated Inference on Criminality using Face Images
Xiaolin Wu Shanghai Jiao Tong University
Xi Zhang Shanghai Jiao Tong University zhangxi
Abstract
We study, for the first time, automated inference on criminality based solely on still face images. Via supervised machine learning, we build four classifiers (logistic regression, KNN, SVM, CNN) using facial images of 1856 real persons controlled for race, gender, age and facial expressions, nearly half of whom were convicted criminals, for discriminating between criminals and non-criminals. All four classifiers perform consistently well and produce evidence for the validity of automated face-induced inference on criminality, despite the historical controversy surrounding the topic. Also, we find some discriminating structural features for predicting criminality, such as lip curvature, eye inner corner distance, and the so-called nose-mouth angle. Above all, the most important discovery of this research is that criminal and non-criminal face images populate two quite distinctive manifolds. The variation among criminal faces is significantly greater than that of the non-criminal faces. The two manifolds consisting of criminal and non-criminal faces appear to be concentric, with the non-criminal manifold lying in the kernel with a smaller span, exhibiting a law of normality for faces of non-criminals. In other words, the faces of general law-biding public have a greater degree of resemblance compared with the faces of criminals, or criminals have a higher degree of dissimilarity in facial appearance than normal people." https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.04135v1.pdf
This was also reported on many news sites, among other the following;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/facial-features-really-can-give-a-criminal-away-tsjwcs6xf
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d7ykmw/new-program-decides-criminality-from-facial-features
Okama-San ( talk) 19:12, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
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Just so everyone is clear what is going on here because there seems to be some confusion. An IPv6 address removed a valid, referenced, notable forensic anthropologist, Kathy Reichs, because they didn't like it. They replaced this with William M. Bass. They did not include a reference. I'm fully aware of who Bass is. When I rewrote this article I could not find a good enough reference for him showing exactly why he is notable. I know he is notable. But I couldn't find a reference as I was writing this article. So I left him off. If someone can find a valid reference for Mr. Bass please feel free to add him. But don't remove lines from the table because you don't like Ms. Reichs. She is a notable forensic anthropologist and she belongs in that table. -- Majora ( talk) 21:11, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
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The first paragraph under 'Determination of ancestry' seems very dubiously sourced. It looks like the first source is an online activity designed specifically for grades 6-11 and not meaningfully updated since 2006. The second source is an archived link to an obscure high school worksheet no longer online. The third is part of another teaching resource, this time for elementary grades – it's an activity sheet related to a webcomic. Nuwio ( talk) 18:47, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | Forensic anthropology has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: September 29, 2015. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Something should be added about how the race determination is becoming obsolete or pointless. It's generalization about where ancestors came from...I dunno. I heard several lectures about this, but mostly what stuck in my head was something about diaspora. Ductapedaredevil 16:41, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I disagree, ancestry determination is a very vital part of Forensic Anthropology. Sustentacular 00:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)sustentacular
I agree with Ductapedaredevil on racial determination becoming obsolete. Seeing as race is a cultural construct, not a physical manifestation, a skull is not an accurate portrayal of one's ethnic heritage.
Jlskiba (
talk)
20:40, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
jlskiba 4:39, 2 November 2010
The idea of discrete races is a cultural construct, however, there is no denying that individuals with similar ancestral backgrounds (note, ancestry and ethnicity are different things) have similar skeletal features, most notably in the skull. Since "race" is something that society continually uses to describe people it stands to reason that when providing a biological profile to help identify a decedent that at least a vague racial category should be provided when possible. Not in the interest of perpetuating the idea of discrete races but to aid in the identification of unknown skeletal remains. Sustentacular 7:31 2 November 2010 (UTC)sustentacular
http://www.physanth.org/association/position-statements/biological-aspects-of-race/ Sustentacular 8:51 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Agree with Sustentacular. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 22:59, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I have added some FA's whose absence was glaringly obvious - Suchey and Brooks being the main ones. I also think that because there are so many Diplomates on the ABFA website that we should move away from chronological order and into alphabetical order - anyone object???
I also think we should include FA worldwide - maybe mentioning the role of FA in ICTY?
to whoever: please stop adding faafs to jerry melbye's name. the majority of the people on that list are aafs fellows, theres no need to add it to just his name. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Theanatomist (
talk •
contribs)
12:10, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I intend to add a section regarding techniques used when i have a minute to scan in some pics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theanatomist ( talk • contribs) 09:19, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I am just here to find out about Forensic Anthropology, but in the first paragraph it read: " One of the leading Forensic anthropologist today is Carlos Zambrano who is one of the inspirations behind the thrilling TV series Bones."
Shouldn't it be Kathy Reichs?
And the link to Carlos Zambrano brings me to a baseball pitcher. His age was also stated as (1700-2008).
I wonder if there is really such a notable forensic anthropologist, or did someone edit the page by mistake. I'll leave it to the experts. Okami ningen83 ( talk) 05:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a joke, don't worry about it.
~ Sustentacular (
talk)
23:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)sustentacular
Does anyone have a citations to validation studies on how well forensic antropologists actually categorize discovered skulls or other human remains in tests with human remains of known provenance? I see the article is tagged as needing more sources, and this is one important issue related to the topic of the article. More generally, are there sources like those listed on the Anthropology and Human Biology Citations page, posted in userspace for all wikipedians to share, that have to do with the specifically forensic issues in anthropology? You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji ( talk, how I edit) 03:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
Look, at wikipedia we have WP:V which requires that every piece of information is verifiable and sourced to reliable source. If information is not soiurced to a reliable source then it can be removed on sight. I am removing these names 1. because it is not sourced that they are forensic anthropolgists. 2. because it is not sourced that they are notable. In wikipedia notable of academics is determined by the criteria WP:ACADEMICS if you can supply a source that shows that each of these names are notable according to WP:ACADEMIC then the names can be included even if they don't have an article. ·Maunus·ƛ· 02:32, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
The narrative and examples are almost entirely from the U.S. It would be good to expand the coverage to the rest of the world. Cusop Dingle ( talk) 17:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
This list seems in bad shape. I can find no indication in the articles concerned that the following were forsensic anthropologists: Thomas Dwight, Aleš Hrdlička, Earnest Hooton, Wilton M. Krogman, Kewal Krishan. Are there any references to support this list? Cusop Dingle ( talk) 16:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
As others have mentioned before, the article is almost entirely about the USA and Canada. It needs to be expanded to cover other countries and continents and represent the subject globally. Otherwise I suggest moving the article to a title of Forensic anthropology in North America. FonsScientiae ( talk) 21:45, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
A move is premature and unnecessarily divisive. I agree that the article would benefit from more information regarding the field's history and application in other countries. To that end I would add:
Thank you for your suggestion regarding
Forensic anthropology. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a
wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top.
The Wikipedia community encourages you to
be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out
how to edit a page, or use the
sandbox to try out your editing skills.
New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to
log in (although there are
many reasons why you might want to).
Boneyard90 (
talk)
00:12, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I notice that someone has added Temperance "Bones" Brennan to the list of notable anthropologists. Do we have any feeling or policy here about adding fictional characters to a list of notable people? -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:37, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I propose that information on forensic archaeology be merged into this page. Forensic archaeology is a recognized subfield of forensic anthropology and the forensic archaeology section on this page already has most of the information contained in the forensic archaeology article anyways. Including the small amount of other information present on the forensic archaeology article on this page shouldn't be a problem and shouldn't cause any undue weight issues. -- Stabila711 ( talk) 03:00, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Delldot ( talk · contribs) 22:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
I am working on this now, should have some comments for you in just a bit. delldot ∇. 22:17, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
An interesting and informative article! A lot of good work has gone into it. I will try to suppress my tendency to be an unbearably hardass reviewer but I do have some concerns about overall organization and some thoughts about areas that could use fleshing out. Hopefully it won't be too much work to address though.
These formulas, developed in the 1940s and refined by war, are still in use by modern forensic anthropologists.-- Stabila711 ( talk) 22:16, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
*I am going to do that then. Bass is known for the creation of the first body farm, Burns is known for her work in genocide cases, etc.
That is what I have for now! Let's continue the discussion as work progresses on the article. Thanks for all your hard work so far Stabila711! delldot ∇. 22:46, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
This is super close, I'm just trying to think of more questions to be sure the comprehensiveness standard is met. Here are some examples, but it may not make sense to answer them all. Just see if you think they are worth addressing.
Feel free to ignore these if you don't think they will add to the article. delldot ∇. 00:04, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Okay....I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. Perhaps someone can create a list article which has notable forensic anthropologists and just link to that? Least that way this article won't be a battleground to determine who is and who isn't notable....just a thought. If you feel we are better off not listing individuals here I'm fine with that.-- MONGO 23:42, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I think this sentence in the "Early history" section needs to be rewritten.
I agree that phrenology is a pseudoscience, but this sentence is overly broad because Fetal alcohol spectrum disorder has specific physical characteristics and is associated with higher than average levels of criminal behavior. See http://fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/documents/WYNK_Criminal_Justice5.pdf and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10533996 Waters.Justin ( talk) 02:24, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
An old section, but regarding the above, it should be mentioned that the field of phrenology and criminal anthropology and the assessing of an individual's propensity for crime by studying physical characteristics, in fact has gotten a new scientifically supported boost from China, with the help of AI.
By feeding ID photos of convicted criminals and noncriminal citizens into AI and machine learning algorithms, they were able to identify certain facial features that predict criminality. The program identified those with a criminal record with 89.51 percent accuracy.
I quote:
"Automated Inference on Criminality using Face Images
Xiaolin Wu Shanghai Jiao Tong University
Xi Zhang Shanghai Jiao Tong University zhangxi
Abstract
We study, for the first time, automated inference on criminality based solely on still face images. Via supervised machine learning, we build four classifiers (logistic regression, KNN, SVM, CNN) using facial images of 1856 real persons controlled for race, gender, age and facial expressions, nearly half of whom were convicted criminals, for discriminating between criminals and non-criminals. All four classifiers perform consistently well and produce evidence for the validity of automated face-induced inference on criminality, despite the historical controversy surrounding the topic. Also, we find some discriminating structural features for predicting criminality, such as lip curvature, eye inner corner distance, and the so-called nose-mouth angle. Above all, the most important discovery of this research is that criminal and non-criminal face images populate two quite distinctive manifolds. The variation among criminal faces is significantly greater than that of the non-criminal faces. The two manifolds consisting of criminal and non-criminal faces appear to be concentric, with the non-criminal manifold lying in the kernel with a smaller span, exhibiting a law of normality for faces of non-criminals. In other words, the faces of general law-biding public have a greater degree of resemblance compared with the faces of criminals, or criminals have a higher degree of dissimilarity in facial appearance than normal people." https://arxiv.org/pdf/1611.04135v1.pdf
This was also reported on many news sites, among other the following;
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/facial-features-really-can-give-a-criminal-away-tsjwcs6xf
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d7ykmw/new-program-decides-criminality-from-facial-features
Okama-San ( talk) 19:12, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
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Just so everyone is clear what is going on here because there seems to be some confusion. An IPv6 address removed a valid, referenced, notable forensic anthropologist, Kathy Reichs, because they didn't like it. They replaced this with William M. Bass. They did not include a reference. I'm fully aware of who Bass is. When I rewrote this article I could not find a good enough reference for him showing exactly why he is notable. I know he is notable. But I couldn't find a reference as I was writing this article. So I left him off. If someone can find a valid reference for Mr. Bass please feel free to add him. But don't remove lines from the table because you don't like Ms. Reichs. She is a notable forensic anthropologist and she belongs in that table. -- Majora ( talk) 21:11, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Forensic anthropology. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The first paragraph under 'Determination of ancestry' seems very dubiously sourced. It looks like the first source is an online activity designed specifically for grades 6-11 and not meaningfully updated since 2006. The second source is an archived link to an obscure high school worksheet no longer online. The third is part of another teaching resource, this time for elementary grades – it's an activity sheet related to a webcomic. Nuwio ( talk) 18:47, 29 August 2023 (UTC)