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Cant figure it out Savageboii4774 ( talk) 17:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
I have prepared the linked article which analyses the use of the "like a wing" analogy from the perspective of confusion and necessity to present an argument for removing all references to aviation and aeronautical terms and concepts from the Article "Forces on sails".
I am brutally aware that I am emulating the boy in the "The Emperor's New Clothes", and of the risk of appearing to claim Copernican wisdom when challenging this universally accepted truth which is supported by the eminences of Fossati, Flay and Marchaj. Gpsanimator ( talk) 05:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Your objections are based on the Wikipedia requirements to avoid original research and imparting our personal point of view. I know this is not a forum, but I would like to offer linked explanationof why my proposal does not transgress these principles.
If we choose to omit all references to Lift and Drag, then there's no need to resolve the complicated problems associated with your two choices:
Gpsanimator ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
This sentence: "The tendency of the air to stay attached to the outside convex sail surface is explained as the Coandă effect" should be removed or changed.
Referring to the description of the Coanda Effect page in Wikipedia ( /info/en/?search=Coand%C4%83_effect) is the tendency of a fluid jet to stay attached to a convex surface. With a sail there is no jet. A very good description of the misconceptions concerning the Coanda effect is given by Doug McLean in Understanding Aerodynamics: Arguing from the Real Physics(pages 275-281). Another way to look at is that even a flat plate can produce lift and at appropriate angles of attack the air flow stays attached. Msachse ( talk) 16:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Done The sentence didn't help explain the topic, even if it were correct. HopsonRoad ( talk) 18:32, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
The effects of the aerodynamic force FT, are thoroughly explored and explained in the Article using classical mechanics and vector algebra to explain how the force operates on the boat at varying points of sail.
The source of the force is correctly identified as the pressure differences around the sail using basic physics: force = pressure /area.
The origin of these pressure differences is identified as:
"These pressure differences arise in conjunction with the curved air flow. As air follows a curved path along the windward side of a sail, there is a pressure gradient perpendicular to the flow direction with lower pressure on the outside of the curve and higher pressure on the inside. "
However, there is no explanation of how the curved air flow causes the pressure differences. Simply stating " in conjunction with the curved air flow" is incomplete.
Where is the explanation of how the curved air flow generates a pressure difference?
This is a serious shortcoming of the article and requires its own section at the start of the Article. Gpsanimator ( talk) 23:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
Forces on sails received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Forces on sails article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article contains a translation of Effort_sur_une_voile from fr.wikipedia. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Link to sandbox containing experimental or legacy material
Cant figure it out Savageboii4774 ( talk) 17:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
I have prepared the linked article which analyses the use of the "like a wing" analogy from the perspective of confusion and necessity to present an argument for removing all references to aviation and aeronautical terms and concepts from the Article "Forces on sails".
I am brutally aware that I am emulating the boy in the "The Emperor's New Clothes", and of the risk of appearing to claim Copernican wisdom when challenging this universally accepted truth which is supported by the eminences of Fossati, Flay and Marchaj. Gpsanimator ( talk) 05:34, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Your objections are based on the Wikipedia requirements to avoid original research and imparting our personal point of view. I know this is not a forum, but I would like to offer linked explanationof why my proposal does not transgress these principles.
If we choose to omit all references to Lift and Drag, then there's no need to resolve the complicated problems associated with your two choices:
Gpsanimator ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
This sentence: "The tendency of the air to stay attached to the outside convex sail surface is explained as the Coandă effect" should be removed or changed.
Referring to the description of the Coanda Effect page in Wikipedia ( /info/en/?search=Coand%C4%83_effect) is the tendency of a fluid jet to stay attached to a convex surface. With a sail there is no jet. A very good description of the misconceptions concerning the Coanda effect is given by Doug McLean in Understanding Aerodynamics: Arguing from the Real Physics(pages 275-281). Another way to look at is that even a flat plate can produce lift and at appropriate angles of attack the air flow stays attached. Msachse ( talk) 16:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Done The sentence didn't help explain the topic, even if it were correct. HopsonRoad ( talk) 18:32, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
The effects of the aerodynamic force FT, are thoroughly explored and explained in the Article using classical mechanics and vector algebra to explain how the force operates on the boat at varying points of sail.
The source of the force is correctly identified as the pressure differences around the sail using basic physics: force = pressure /area.
The origin of these pressure differences is identified as:
"These pressure differences arise in conjunction with the curved air flow. As air follows a curved path along the windward side of a sail, there is a pressure gradient perpendicular to the flow direction with lower pressure on the outside of the curve and higher pressure on the inside. "
However, there is no explanation of how the curved air flow causes the pressure differences. Simply stating " in conjunction with the curved air flow" is incomplete.
Where is the explanation of how the curved air flow generates a pressure difference?
This is a serious shortcoming of the article and requires its own section at the start of the Article. Gpsanimator ( talk) 23:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)