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Sections 2.2.10 and 3.1 ought to be ammended. Firstly, Ireland ought to be included in those countries listed whereby football (often) refers to another sport other than Association Football (Soccer). In rural areas, the term Football soley refers to Gaelic Football and the Irish media use a convention whereby Association Football is referred to as 'Soccer' and Gaelic Football as just that.
The origins of Gaelic Football predate the 19th Century as the post implies. This addition ought to be made:
The first mention of football in Ireland is found in 1308, where John McCrocan, a spectator at a football game at Newcastle, County Dublin was charged with accidentally stabbing a player named William Bernard.
The Statute of Galway of 1527 allowed the playing of "foot balle" and archery but banned "'hokie' [sic] — the hurling of a little ball with sticks or staves" as well as other sports. However even "foot-ball" was banned by the severe Sunday Observance Act of 1695, which imposed a fine of one shilling (a substantial amount at the time) for those caught playing sports. It proved difficult, if not impossible for the authorities to enforce the Act and the earliest recorded inter-county match in Ireland was one between Louth and Meath, at Slane, in 1712.
The first references to the nature of play was in 1670: the ball may be held and struck either hand or foot. Often referred to as peil (see modern Peil Gaelach).
Football was thought to have been introduced into Ireland by the Normans in the 12-13th centuries and was predominantly played in the south and east of the country. There were no references to Football in the Brehon Laws (Fénechas).
Caid refers not to a specific code of football but the equipment used i.e. the ball. The Field Game as it was played in Kerry was the principal basis for that code of football played by the Limerick club, Commercials, upon which Maurice Davin is thought to have drawn inspiration. It was a pitch-based, field game composed of two opposing teams that took turns defending a 'goal', which comprised the boughs of two stripped trees tied to one another in the characteristic 'H'. Different scores were indicated depending upon whether the ball was driven above or below the bar.
Gaelic Football is similar to Australian-Rules Football, although their common origin is disputed. What is not in dispute, however, is that the Irish of Victoria played football (noted in 1843). Also, most Irish convicts at that time were either Rebels (or their descendents) from the 1798 Rebellion and thus predominantly from the south-east of Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martan32 ( talk • contribs) 13:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
"football" is used in english-speaking countries to refer to a sport. The greater percentage of that population lives in the USA or Canada - where "football" means the contact sport involving two teams of 11 players each. Thus, because this is in the English Wikipedia, this page should explain that sport - not soccer. Failing that, a disambiguation page should be used.
When an english speaking user types in "football" - chances are (due to population numbers) he/she is not looking for soccer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.112.169 ( talk) 21:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC).
As to whether or not Football should be called Football or Soccer, I think that it should be called the latter. Football was a name given to the sport long before soccer and as the Americans didn't even invent the sport I think that they should not be allowed to start naming it. The only logical reason as to why they call it soccer is because using football in their country would suggest 'American Football'. Well sorry but I'm not bloody American and I don't play/watch American Football so I'm going to continue to use Football. Europeans seem to share a similar frame of mind when choosing which name, German's (as mentioned above, somewhere.. ##!?) call it Fussball, literally translated as Foot ball. MasterOfHisOwnDomain ( talk) 19:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Rugbys not a football ThisMunkey ( talk) 15:33, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Since the 1994 FIFA World Cup like the UEFA Champions League FIFA adopts a anthem composed by the German composer Franz Lambert. This anthem also known like Fair Play Hymn term used by the Mexican TV sport commentator Enrique Bermudez de la Serna known like El Perro Bermudez. The FIFA Anthem or Hymn is played at the beginning of FIFA structured matches and tournaments such as international friendlies, the FIFA World Cup, FIFA Women's World Cup, and FIFA U-20 World Cup.""
:::I am not saying that the wolf is on the dog page. I am sayin that the munkeys are bein called apes by the scientists.
ThisMunkey (
talk)
14:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
And what you mean to say is that football has never refered solely to football. You may beg to differ but it boils down to the fact that the English did not invent the foot or the ball or the idea of kicking it. I have more respect for my feet and my balls than I do for protecting the pride of modern institutions when absolutely unnessecary. Neither FIFA or the IRB need to pretend they invented the foot or the ball. Come down off the horse and give it some hay. ThisMunkey ( talk) 07:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC) http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html ThisMunkey ( talk) 15:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Varieties developed in England and in Europe (in 14th-century Florence there was a form called calcio). A traditional version in England was known as Shrovetide football, common in the Midlands and the north of England for centuries. Such games might involve hundreds of men on each side and were usually a free-for-all between sections of a town, villages, or adjoining parishes that would often develop into a brawl. Many schools played football and some, notably Eton, Harrow, Winchester, and Rugby, evolved codes of their own, particularly Rugby, which established a code from which others (American football, for example) developed. During the 19th century there were concerted efforts to organize and structure the different forms and provide acceptable rules.
"
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570265/Football.html
/br>"The Greek 'Episkyros' - of which few concrete details survive - was much livelier, as was the Roman 'Harpastum'. The latter was played out with a smaller ball by two teams on a rectangular field marked by boundary lines and a centre line. The objective was to get the ball over the opposition's boundary lines and as players passed it between themselves, trickery was the order of the day. The game remained popular for 700-800 years, but, although the Romans took it to Britain with them, the use of feet was so small as to scarcely be of consequence.
"
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html
"Tlatchi was a game played by the Aztecs and some individuals have claimed that it is over 3000 years old. We cannot verify this but it is quite possible that the game was being played around 500 BCE. This would make it older than the Chinese game of Tsu Chu. However Tlachtli was more a mix of basketball, volleyball and football rather than just a forerunner of football. One key rule was that players could not use their hands, although they could use their heads, elbows, legs or hips(?).
The ruins of almost every ancient city include a walled court for the sacred game of Tlachtli. The courts were often close to temples, reinforcing the spiritual nature of the game. Tlatchi has been described as a spectator sport, an astrological study and a political engagement all at the same time.
The sense of astrology comes from the fact that the Aztecs and particularly the priests felt that the movement of the rubber ball during the game symbolised the future path of the sun.
Great prominence was given to the mystic similarities between ball and sun.Only the ruling elite were allowed to watch the game and gambling on the outcome of the game was very popular. Money, clothes and even slaves were bet on games.
Tlachtli was played in a sunken stone walled court surrounded by fans. The court was normally an 'I' or 'H' shape with one stone ring at each end of the court. (The stone rings were similar to basketball hoops and were 8-10 feet off the ground. The actual hole was less than 30 cm wide.
The actual game involved passing the ball from side to side without it touching the ground. If the ball fell to the ground on the other side your team would win a point and vice versa (similar to volleyball.) If you struck the ball with an incorrect part of your body you could lose points for your team.
However the real purpose of the game was to get the ball through the hoop at each end. The team that did this first won, irrespective of the current score of the game.
Players were given kneepads and helmets to protect them from the heavy rubber ball, although this was only a temporary measure as the losers of the game were sacrificed to the gods!
"
http://www.footballnetwork.org/dev/historyoffootball/earlierhistory_3.asp
ThisMunkey (
talk)
15:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
So far as I can tell, the game they had us play in our physical education class in Clackamas High School in the North Clackamas School District in Oregon was called Flashball, and it doesn't seem to be discussed anywhere in Wiki, so I might as well pipe up here, and ask if anybody knows a game similar to it.
The game was superficially similar to American Football because of the use of the single prolate spheroid football, and the idea that points could be had, by taking it to the other side of the rectangular field, somehow, and getting it over the goal line. However, it permitted bouncing the ball, rolling the ball, passing the ball, smuggling the ball, and wrestling for the ball. 'Wrestling' means you had to punch or pry the ball out of the bearer's arms, sometimes with the assistance of a team member trying to twist the guy's arm away, to make him let go, and you only had up to the count of ten to do so. Tackling and tripping was permitted. It was a good idea to wear a helmet because it was a little rough. You didn't have to be the guy carrying the ball to be in danger of being tackled, as anybody could tackle anybody, even members of your own team. As for Rugby, I don't exactly understand the terms ruck or maul, so I will simply leave that term to others, so they can go back to those articles so they can describe those terms better.
For one thing, does Rugby or Gaelic Football have Referees who are supposed to count to ten (very loudly) when a battle for possession begins? Flashball does.
To start the game, the opposing teams lined up on opposite ends of the field. Then the Referee would walk out and into the middle of the field, and throw the football towards the team that had fewer team members (thus allowing uneven numbers of players to play against each other). Anybody could snatch it up, and take off running with it, hopefully making it through the opposing team as they gathered to take him down. More often than not, one or more opposing team members would take him down and attempt to bury the ball. But he could pass or bounce the ball out of harm's way, such that his comrades could pick it up, and take off running with it. The ball has to be buried till the count of ten, at which point the Referee declares which team was in "possession" of the ball. It helps to have reversible T-shirts because the Referee would say something like, "Blue has the Ball" or "Red has the Ball" depending on who had the ball more firmly immobilized. If the ball rolls out of the mass of wrestling players, the Referee shouted "Ball in Motion." If the ball comes to rest without any players in possession of it, then the Referee (after counting to ten) shouts out the name of the team most properly (that is, previously) in possession of the ball.
Aside from the initial throw of the ball by the Referee to the team that needed a break, the rest of the game was played by lining up the team members and hiking the ball, and then running it to the other side of the field. You generally don't line up to "hike the ball" until the Referee blows on his whistle, after which, any players who are still wrestling in some other part of the field (not realizing that they were no longer in possession of the ball) are supposed to stop what they are doing, and come line up for the hike.
As I understand it, dropping the ball and kicking it over the goalie line doesn't count for any points. You actually had to physically transport or carry the ball over the goal line for it to count.
If opposing players were to rush the ball before it was hiked, the Referee had authority to penalize that team, and make them backup 5 yards, and everybody had to line up again. Unnecessary roughness (like punching somebody in the ribs, when you were simply trying to punch the ball out of somebody's arms) was another reason for a penalty. (And similarly for "accidentally" spraining somebody's fingers when he won't let go of the ball, and two or three people are simultaneously trying to make him let go. If you have that many people wrestling for the ball, any sane man will toss the ball before it comes to that.)
It was okay to tackle anybody you wanted, this being an interesting ploy for a more numerous team to employ against a less numerous team, inasmuch as two players could be taken down for the price of one. Unlike Rugby, there was no duty to move away from the ball after tacking the bearer. The game goes fast enough, that it isn't always immediately clear which player has the ball. Having one Referee is mandatory, but having two Referees is even better. As I seem to recall, eight touchdowns (carrying the ball physically over the goal line, and touching it to the ground) made a game. 198.177.27.22 04:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
In South America we keep it simple; Football for the real one, American Football, Australian Football. The name Soccer just sounds ridiculous. The English they teach here is the correct one (British) not American
Can I have a reference from FIFA that shows that the name of the game is 'Association Football'? I dont trust British sources to be unbiased. If you guys dont have a source from FIFA, it would be more accurate to call the game Football. Rosiethegreat 21:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
No , FIFA stands for 'Fédération Internationale de Football Association' .If the Association actually came before the Football , it made some sense .But it doesnt - so the point of 'International Federation of Association Football ' is moot .
Coming to American football , only people in North america call it 'football ' .While I agree the official name of that sport is also football , the reality is that people outside of North America call it 'American Football ' to distinguish it from the more popular football .
i am still wondering where do people get the theory that 'Football' is called 'Association Football ' .Without a FIFA reference , its completely unacceptable to come up with such a name . Rosiethegreat 21:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a question maybe not entirely related but... it was brought up here. What do other countries refer to american football as? I mean you said they don't call it football, obviously, so do they just call it american football? XXLegendXx 15:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
/'footbawl uhsohsee.ayshuhn/. noun the body responsible for the organisation and administration of association football in England.
The only people who want it changed from football to association football or soccer are people who hate the sport or resent its popularity. Aussiball Rules stats are completely insignificant in this debate anyway. There are only 16 professional teams on the entire planet. -- 202.47.51.73 19:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Native speakers of English throughout the world know what sport the term "soccer" refers to. However, the term "football" refers to too many different sports to be used in place of "soccer" in an international publication such as Wikipedia. Mathnarg 20:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The previous format of this page was great and lots of people put a lot of work into it.... so what happened. I think it should be reinstated. Jd
(de-indent) No, there's no permanent protection. Some high profile vandal-magnets (e.g. George W. Bush) are de facto permenantly semi-protected, but they are very much exceptions. I've not been an admin for long so I don't have much experience with protections, but if (or more likely when) the vandalism gets heavy again, you could probably request that it should be protected for a longer time, citing the previous history of vandalism. Oldelpaso 17:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
We finally have indefinite semi-protection! GordyB 22:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I had a minor concern on the following statement at the end of the first paragraph.
I realize this statement is intended to be politically correct. Certainly it is true that England did not uniquely invent this type of sport and even England's inventions derive from sports originating in other places (this can be said of almost anything in any country). Nevertheless, my understanding is that everything in the world called "football" in English (and referred to by a phonetically similar word in other languages) came from England, at least indirectly. So it seems to me that this statement is unfairly politically correct, unless there is some aspect of the history that I am not aware of. Maybe the statement should be something like the following.
Just my opinion ... -- Mcorazao 03:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand your argument. What do you mean by "all football games"? Do you mean "all games that involve feet and balls"? Or "all cames that anybody in the world has ever called football"? Or "all games that are recognized by some some official body as football"? With any term you can find ambiguity. I tend to believe that, for the encyclopedia to be coherent, it should stick with definitions that are widely used and widely accepted. That is not to say it should be limited only to the single most widely used definition, but it should neither try to include every conceivable definition ever used in the history of mankind (except perhaps to make small mention of some of the alternatives in a small section at the end of the article). I believe the term "football" is widely accepted as referring to the games of English derivation (including the North American game, of course). Although occassionally some similar sports in other cultures are called "football" in very localized circles I have never heard of such a game being widely associated with this term.
Anyway, probably not important enough to make such a big deal about. I am not English, by the way, if it is not obvious from the way I write. I was just trying to be culturally respectful. -- Mcorazao 16:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Though the history of the game of Football can be traced back to Europe, the game evolved in the U.S.A. and there is no mention of the advances in the game accredited to Americans.
Which code is this referring to and is it true? -- Philip Baird Shearer 12:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I was intrigued to see that the change from England to UK has passed unchallenged. As far as the UK home countries go I do not think there is much evidence for football development in Wales or Ireland (later NI). Certainly there is a long history of football in Scotland, but the origin of the modern codes was in England (Eton/Harrow/Winchester etc, Cambridge rules, Sheffield rules, football association). Although there were significant scottish players, I believe that their contribution took place within England. I think that it should be changed back to England. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballfan3000 ( talk • contribs) August 1, 2007 (UTC)
Okay that's a bit clearer. I would say that "has their origins in" means that they were codified from games played at private schools which ultimately came from folk forms of football. GordyB 15:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Please add or correct the following to the introduction:
I think is too late to leave the clarification of the term to the "Football Today" section.
Why is the page blank?
-This article sometimes appears blank Archael Tzaraath 19:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
football and the other kind of football are different. there different in the game, and different in the spelling.. you really need to split this article -- 24.254.14.165 00:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that the section on public school games should mention that the forward pass is permitted in rugby (and other school games) when the ball is kicked. This key feature of rugby is often over looked by historians of soccer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballwecan80 ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, as an Australian I am insulted by the opening paragraph that makes a mention of soccer and actually has the gall to call it football but seemingly forgets to mention that only a few pommy bastards call soccer football and that in the English speaking worlds(discounting Indians and other non-Brittanics) the English are in a tiny minority in their reference to soccer being football which they are actually wrong about. I am not sure that soccer should even be on a page in English wikipedia dedicated to football and think that people should remove it. Afterall, outside of a few imperialists, everyone in Australia hates the d***heads that are trying to call soccer football, and even more importantly, the Americans dont do it either, leaving the English on their lonesome. I tried to change this but I cant for some reason so I would like someone who can to change it. Think about it, football means ball on foot in every English speaking society that is not bitched by the English culturally. In particular, rugby football and its varying splinters stand out as the clearest meaning of the term football. like rugby league football, rugby union, American football, Canadian football. With gayfl, many of the original writers went to the rugby school and they were heavily influenced by the tour of the English football team to Australia in 1877, as well as them being undoubtedly influenced by the culturally superior and more densely populated states of NSW and QLD where rugby football is a religion. With Gaelic football, it was probably influenced by rugby football in the type of its posts. The only mention to soccer should be that it deviated from football in 1863 when it changed the emphasis of the game to kicking, and stopped being football when the average player was no longer allowed to catch the ball on foot and take a "mark". I mean, look in a dictionary at the words that have the adjectival foot- as the beginning of the word and most of them only make sense when you add by, with, in, on, from before the foot, like footmarch means a march on foot, or footnote means a note on foot (of page) whereas football could only mean soccer when you add the verb kick, as in ball kicked by foot/with foot, so it breaks the rule. In other cases like footstep meaning step FOR foot, it still does not give clarification for it meaning soccer ahead of rugby football, as ball for foot is ambiguous and is probably not the origin of the word, as the word was used for a sport originally and ball is not a sport. So that is why soccer should be kicked off the football page and I am insulted in the opening mention to it being the most popular form without giving the clarification that only the pommys call it football(and even than it has only become universal in the past 50 years, whereass before that clubs like Wigan FC definitely didnt play soccer and didnt compromise over the fact that they were a football club). So please change it somebody when they get the chance, and while we are at it, change the name of the soccer article. -- Poo thrasher 10:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Native speakers of English throughout the world know what sport the term "soccer" refers to. However, the term "football" refers to too many different sports to be used in place of "soccer" in an international publication such as Wikipedia. Mathnarg 20:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Do we need:
IMPORTANT NOTE to editors: we have a length problem! That is why there is a Mediæval football article. Please do not add new material to this section unless it is significant -- please put any new material in the Mediæval football article _before_ you add it to this section. Thank you.
Repeated 10 times in the history section, is not once enough at the top of the section? -- Nate1481( t/ c) 13:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The article attracts a lot of interest and one consequence of this is it that it gets a lot of editing from people who don't read articles properly (see the numerous misinformed comments about the content above) and who don't understand understand the norms and style of Wikipedia. Grant | Talk 18:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ever since I found this page a long time ago, I've thought we should split it off. Football should be a disambiguation page, with the main 3 uses (rugby, gridiron, and soccer) at the top. The bulk of this text could go in football (history), and what's left of this page could become a disambiguation. This makes much more sense. 95% of people typing in football are looking for information on one of the specific sports, and if they're interested in reading about the pre-split history, they can click on that in the disambiguation page. The Evil Spartan 00:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it is "confusing". On the contrary, I think the introduction is perfectly clear. As Gordy has suggested, this article began as a dab page, which became complicated to the point of confusion and uselessness. The historical development of these football games serves to explain why so many very different games are all called "football". Grant | Talk 07:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Well I get the impression these are suppose to be what all games involve? it starts of good... but then there are many "in some codes" etc. shouldn't they be removed? I at least thought that list was, things that are the same in all codes of football. Chandler talk 18:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
In 1363, King Edward III of England issued a proclamation banning "...handball, football, or hockey; coursing and cock-fighting, or other such idle games", showing that "football" — whatever its exact form in this case — was being differentiated from games involving other parts of the body, such as handball.
King Henry IV of England gives the earliest documented use of the English word "football", in 1409, when he issued a proclamation forbidding the levying of money for "foteball".[6][7]''
That was taken from this article, but doesn't it seem to be contradictory? If Edward III issued a proclamation banning football in 1363 why is Henry IV's proclamation being referred to as the "earliest documented use of football" if it came more than 40 years later? 157.252.165.109 ( talk) 18:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
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Joe Dawley is only 1 inch Template:WP1.0
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![]() Archives |
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Sections 2.2.10 and 3.1 ought to be ammended. Firstly, Ireland ought to be included in those countries listed whereby football (often) refers to another sport other than Association Football (Soccer). In rural areas, the term Football soley refers to Gaelic Football and the Irish media use a convention whereby Association Football is referred to as 'Soccer' and Gaelic Football as just that.
The origins of Gaelic Football predate the 19th Century as the post implies. This addition ought to be made:
The first mention of football in Ireland is found in 1308, where John McCrocan, a spectator at a football game at Newcastle, County Dublin was charged with accidentally stabbing a player named William Bernard.
The Statute of Galway of 1527 allowed the playing of "foot balle" and archery but banned "'hokie' [sic] — the hurling of a little ball with sticks or staves" as well as other sports. However even "foot-ball" was banned by the severe Sunday Observance Act of 1695, which imposed a fine of one shilling (a substantial amount at the time) for those caught playing sports. It proved difficult, if not impossible for the authorities to enforce the Act and the earliest recorded inter-county match in Ireland was one between Louth and Meath, at Slane, in 1712.
The first references to the nature of play was in 1670: the ball may be held and struck either hand or foot. Often referred to as peil (see modern Peil Gaelach).
Football was thought to have been introduced into Ireland by the Normans in the 12-13th centuries and was predominantly played in the south and east of the country. There were no references to Football in the Brehon Laws (Fénechas).
Caid refers not to a specific code of football but the equipment used i.e. the ball. The Field Game as it was played in Kerry was the principal basis for that code of football played by the Limerick club, Commercials, upon which Maurice Davin is thought to have drawn inspiration. It was a pitch-based, field game composed of two opposing teams that took turns defending a 'goal', which comprised the boughs of two stripped trees tied to one another in the characteristic 'H'. Different scores were indicated depending upon whether the ball was driven above or below the bar.
Gaelic Football is similar to Australian-Rules Football, although their common origin is disputed. What is not in dispute, however, is that the Irish of Victoria played football (noted in 1843). Also, most Irish convicts at that time were either Rebels (or their descendents) from the 1798 Rebellion and thus predominantly from the south-east of Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martan32 ( talk • contribs) 13:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
"football" is used in english-speaking countries to refer to a sport. The greater percentage of that population lives in the USA or Canada - where "football" means the contact sport involving two teams of 11 players each. Thus, because this is in the English Wikipedia, this page should explain that sport - not soccer. Failing that, a disambiguation page should be used.
When an english speaking user types in "football" - chances are (due to population numbers) he/she is not looking for soccer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.112.169 ( talk) 21:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC).
As to whether or not Football should be called Football or Soccer, I think that it should be called the latter. Football was a name given to the sport long before soccer and as the Americans didn't even invent the sport I think that they should not be allowed to start naming it. The only logical reason as to why they call it soccer is because using football in their country would suggest 'American Football'. Well sorry but I'm not bloody American and I don't play/watch American Football so I'm going to continue to use Football. Europeans seem to share a similar frame of mind when choosing which name, German's (as mentioned above, somewhere.. ##!?) call it Fussball, literally translated as Foot ball. MasterOfHisOwnDomain ( talk) 19:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Rugbys not a football ThisMunkey ( talk) 15:33, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Since the 1994 FIFA World Cup like the UEFA Champions League FIFA adopts a anthem composed by the German composer Franz Lambert. This anthem also known like Fair Play Hymn term used by the Mexican TV sport commentator Enrique Bermudez de la Serna known like El Perro Bermudez. The FIFA Anthem or Hymn is played at the beginning of FIFA structured matches and tournaments such as international friendlies, the FIFA World Cup, FIFA Women's World Cup, and FIFA U-20 World Cup.""
:::I am not saying that the wolf is on the dog page. I am sayin that the munkeys are bein called apes by the scientists.
ThisMunkey (
talk)
14:38, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
And what you mean to say is that football has never refered solely to football. You may beg to differ but it boils down to the fact that the English did not invent the foot or the ball or the idea of kicking it. I have more respect for my feet and my balls than I do for protecting the pride of modern institutions when absolutely unnessecary. Neither FIFA or the IRB need to pretend they invented the foot or the ball. Come down off the horse and give it some hay. ThisMunkey ( talk) 07:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC) http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html ThisMunkey ( talk) 15:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Varieties developed in England and in Europe (in 14th-century Florence there was a form called calcio). A traditional version in England was known as Shrovetide football, common in the Midlands and the north of England for centuries. Such games might involve hundreds of men on each side and were usually a free-for-all between sections of a town, villages, or adjoining parishes that would often develop into a brawl. Many schools played football and some, notably Eton, Harrow, Winchester, and Rugby, evolved codes of their own, particularly Rugby, which established a code from which others (American football, for example) developed. During the 19th century there were concerted efforts to organize and structure the different forms and provide acceptable rules.
"
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761570265/Football.html
/br>"The Greek 'Episkyros' - of which few concrete details survive - was much livelier, as was the Roman 'Harpastum'. The latter was played out with a smaller ball by two teams on a rectangular field marked by boundary lines and a centre line. The objective was to get the ball over the opposition's boundary lines and as players passed it between themselves, trickery was the order of the day. The game remained popular for 700-800 years, but, although the Romans took it to Britain with them, the use of feet was so small as to scarcely be of consequence.
"
http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/history/game/historygame1.html
"Tlatchi was a game played by the Aztecs and some individuals have claimed that it is over 3000 years old. We cannot verify this but it is quite possible that the game was being played around 500 BCE. This would make it older than the Chinese game of Tsu Chu. However Tlachtli was more a mix of basketball, volleyball and football rather than just a forerunner of football. One key rule was that players could not use their hands, although they could use their heads, elbows, legs or hips(?).
The ruins of almost every ancient city include a walled court for the sacred game of Tlachtli. The courts were often close to temples, reinforcing the spiritual nature of the game. Tlatchi has been described as a spectator sport, an astrological study and a political engagement all at the same time.
The sense of astrology comes from the fact that the Aztecs and particularly the priests felt that the movement of the rubber ball during the game symbolised the future path of the sun.
Great prominence was given to the mystic similarities between ball and sun.Only the ruling elite were allowed to watch the game and gambling on the outcome of the game was very popular. Money, clothes and even slaves were bet on games.
Tlachtli was played in a sunken stone walled court surrounded by fans. The court was normally an 'I' or 'H' shape with one stone ring at each end of the court. (The stone rings were similar to basketball hoops and were 8-10 feet off the ground. The actual hole was less than 30 cm wide.
The actual game involved passing the ball from side to side without it touching the ground. If the ball fell to the ground on the other side your team would win a point and vice versa (similar to volleyball.) If you struck the ball with an incorrect part of your body you could lose points for your team.
However the real purpose of the game was to get the ball through the hoop at each end. The team that did this first won, irrespective of the current score of the game.
Players were given kneepads and helmets to protect them from the heavy rubber ball, although this was only a temporary measure as the losers of the game were sacrificed to the gods!
"
http://www.footballnetwork.org/dev/historyoffootball/earlierhistory_3.asp
ThisMunkey (
talk)
15:22, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
So far as I can tell, the game they had us play in our physical education class in Clackamas High School in the North Clackamas School District in Oregon was called Flashball, and it doesn't seem to be discussed anywhere in Wiki, so I might as well pipe up here, and ask if anybody knows a game similar to it.
The game was superficially similar to American Football because of the use of the single prolate spheroid football, and the idea that points could be had, by taking it to the other side of the rectangular field, somehow, and getting it over the goal line. However, it permitted bouncing the ball, rolling the ball, passing the ball, smuggling the ball, and wrestling for the ball. 'Wrestling' means you had to punch or pry the ball out of the bearer's arms, sometimes with the assistance of a team member trying to twist the guy's arm away, to make him let go, and you only had up to the count of ten to do so. Tackling and tripping was permitted. It was a good idea to wear a helmet because it was a little rough. You didn't have to be the guy carrying the ball to be in danger of being tackled, as anybody could tackle anybody, even members of your own team. As for Rugby, I don't exactly understand the terms ruck or maul, so I will simply leave that term to others, so they can go back to those articles so they can describe those terms better.
For one thing, does Rugby or Gaelic Football have Referees who are supposed to count to ten (very loudly) when a battle for possession begins? Flashball does.
To start the game, the opposing teams lined up on opposite ends of the field. Then the Referee would walk out and into the middle of the field, and throw the football towards the team that had fewer team members (thus allowing uneven numbers of players to play against each other). Anybody could snatch it up, and take off running with it, hopefully making it through the opposing team as they gathered to take him down. More often than not, one or more opposing team members would take him down and attempt to bury the ball. But he could pass or bounce the ball out of harm's way, such that his comrades could pick it up, and take off running with it. The ball has to be buried till the count of ten, at which point the Referee declares which team was in "possession" of the ball. It helps to have reversible T-shirts because the Referee would say something like, "Blue has the Ball" or "Red has the Ball" depending on who had the ball more firmly immobilized. If the ball rolls out of the mass of wrestling players, the Referee shouted "Ball in Motion." If the ball comes to rest without any players in possession of it, then the Referee (after counting to ten) shouts out the name of the team most properly (that is, previously) in possession of the ball.
Aside from the initial throw of the ball by the Referee to the team that needed a break, the rest of the game was played by lining up the team members and hiking the ball, and then running it to the other side of the field. You generally don't line up to "hike the ball" until the Referee blows on his whistle, after which, any players who are still wrestling in some other part of the field (not realizing that they were no longer in possession of the ball) are supposed to stop what they are doing, and come line up for the hike.
As I understand it, dropping the ball and kicking it over the goalie line doesn't count for any points. You actually had to physically transport or carry the ball over the goal line for it to count.
If opposing players were to rush the ball before it was hiked, the Referee had authority to penalize that team, and make them backup 5 yards, and everybody had to line up again. Unnecessary roughness (like punching somebody in the ribs, when you were simply trying to punch the ball out of somebody's arms) was another reason for a penalty. (And similarly for "accidentally" spraining somebody's fingers when he won't let go of the ball, and two or three people are simultaneously trying to make him let go. If you have that many people wrestling for the ball, any sane man will toss the ball before it comes to that.)
It was okay to tackle anybody you wanted, this being an interesting ploy for a more numerous team to employ against a less numerous team, inasmuch as two players could be taken down for the price of one. Unlike Rugby, there was no duty to move away from the ball after tacking the bearer. The game goes fast enough, that it isn't always immediately clear which player has the ball. Having one Referee is mandatory, but having two Referees is even better. As I seem to recall, eight touchdowns (carrying the ball physically over the goal line, and touching it to the ground) made a game. 198.177.27.22 04:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
In South America we keep it simple; Football for the real one, American Football, Australian Football. The name Soccer just sounds ridiculous. The English they teach here is the correct one (British) not American
Can I have a reference from FIFA that shows that the name of the game is 'Association Football'? I dont trust British sources to be unbiased. If you guys dont have a source from FIFA, it would be more accurate to call the game Football. Rosiethegreat 21:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
No , FIFA stands for 'Fédération Internationale de Football Association' .If the Association actually came before the Football , it made some sense .But it doesnt - so the point of 'International Federation of Association Football ' is moot .
Coming to American football , only people in North america call it 'football ' .While I agree the official name of that sport is also football , the reality is that people outside of North America call it 'American Football ' to distinguish it from the more popular football .
i am still wondering where do people get the theory that 'Football' is called 'Association Football ' .Without a FIFA reference , its completely unacceptable to come up with such a name . Rosiethegreat 21:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I have a question maybe not entirely related but... it was brought up here. What do other countries refer to american football as? I mean you said they don't call it football, obviously, so do they just call it american football? XXLegendXx 15:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
/'footbawl uhsohsee.ayshuhn/. noun the body responsible for the organisation and administration of association football in England.
The only people who want it changed from football to association football or soccer are people who hate the sport or resent its popularity. Aussiball Rules stats are completely insignificant in this debate anyway. There are only 16 professional teams on the entire planet. -- 202.47.51.73 19:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Native speakers of English throughout the world know what sport the term "soccer" refers to. However, the term "football" refers to too many different sports to be used in place of "soccer" in an international publication such as Wikipedia. Mathnarg 20:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The previous format of this page was great and lots of people put a lot of work into it.... so what happened. I think it should be reinstated. Jd
(de-indent) No, there's no permanent protection. Some high profile vandal-magnets (e.g. George W. Bush) are de facto permenantly semi-protected, but they are very much exceptions. I've not been an admin for long so I don't have much experience with protections, but if (or more likely when) the vandalism gets heavy again, you could probably request that it should be protected for a longer time, citing the previous history of vandalism. Oldelpaso 17:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
We finally have indefinite semi-protection! GordyB 22:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I had a minor concern on the following statement at the end of the first paragraph.
I realize this statement is intended to be politically correct. Certainly it is true that England did not uniquely invent this type of sport and even England's inventions derive from sports originating in other places (this can be said of almost anything in any country). Nevertheless, my understanding is that everything in the world called "football" in English (and referred to by a phonetically similar word in other languages) came from England, at least indirectly. So it seems to me that this statement is unfairly politically correct, unless there is some aspect of the history that I am not aware of. Maybe the statement should be something like the following.
Just my opinion ... -- Mcorazao 03:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand your argument. What do you mean by "all football games"? Do you mean "all games that involve feet and balls"? Or "all cames that anybody in the world has ever called football"? Or "all games that are recognized by some some official body as football"? With any term you can find ambiguity. I tend to believe that, for the encyclopedia to be coherent, it should stick with definitions that are widely used and widely accepted. That is not to say it should be limited only to the single most widely used definition, but it should neither try to include every conceivable definition ever used in the history of mankind (except perhaps to make small mention of some of the alternatives in a small section at the end of the article). I believe the term "football" is widely accepted as referring to the games of English derivation (including the North American game, of course). Although occassionally some similar sports in other cultures are called "football" in very localized circles I have never heard of such a game being widely associated with this term.
Anyway, probably not important enough to make such a big deal about. I am not English, by the way, if it is not obvious from the way I write. I was just trying to be culturally respectful. -- Mcorazao 16:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Though the history of the game of Football can be traced back to Europe, the game evolved in the U.S.A. and there is no mention of the advances in the game accredited to Americans.
Which code is this referring to and is it true? -- Philip Baird Shearer 12:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I was intrigued to see that the change from England to UK has passed unchallenged. As far as the UK home countries go I do not think there is much evidence for football development in Wales or Ireland (later NI). Certainly there is a long history of football in Scotland, but the origin of the modern codes was in England (Eton/Harrow/Winchester etc, Cambridge rules, Sheffield rules, football association). Although there were significant scottish players, I believe that their contribution took place within England. I think that it should be changed back to England. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballfan3000 ( talk • contribs) August 1, 2007 (UTC)
Okay that's a bit clearer. I would say that "has their origins in" means that they were codified from games played at private schools which ultimately came from folk forms of football. GordyB 15:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Please add or correct the following to the introduction:
I think is too late to leave the clarification of the term to the "Football Today" section.
Why is the page blank?
-This article sometimes appears blank Archael Tzaraath 19:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
football and the other kind of football are different. there different in the game, and different in the spelling.. you really need to split this article -- 24.254.14.165 00:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that the section on public school games should mention that the forward pass is permitted in rugby (and other school games) when the ball is kicked. This key feature of rugby is often over looked by historians of soccer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballwecan80 ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, as an Australian I am insulted by the opening paragraph that makes a mention of soccer and actually has the gall to call it football but seemingly forgets to mention that only a few pommy bastards call soccer football and that in the English speaking worlds(discounting Indians and other non-Brittanics) the English are in a tiny minority in their reference to soccer being football which they are actually wrong about. I am not sure that soccer should even be on a page in English wikipedia dedicated to football and think that people should remove it. Afterall, outside of a few imperialists, everyone in Australia hates the d***heads that are trying to call soccer football, and even more importantly, the Americans dont do it either, leaving the English on their lonesome. I tried to change this but I cant for some reason so I would like someone who can to change it. Think about it, football means ball on foot in every English speaking society that is not bitched by the English culturally. In particular, rugby football and its varying splinters stand out as the clearest meaning of the term football. like rugby league football, rugby union, American football, Canadian football. With gayfl, many of the original writers went to the rugby school and they were heavily influenced by the tour of the English football team to Australia in 1877, as well as them being undoubtedly influenced by the culturally superior and more densely populated states of NSW and QLD where rugby football is a religion. With Gaelic football, it was probably influenced by rugby football in the type of its posts. The only mention to soccer should be that it deviated from football in 1863 when it changed the emphasis of the game to kicking, and stopped being football when the average player was no longer allowed to catch the ball on foot and take a "mark". I mean, look in a dictionary at the words that have the adjectival foot- as the beginning of the word and most of them only make sense when you add by, with, in, on, from before the foot, like footmarch means a march on foot, or footnote means a note on foot (of page) whereas football could only mean soccer when you add the verb kick, as in ball kicked by foot/with foot, so it breaks the rule. In other cases like footstep meaning step FOR foot, it still does not give clarification for it meaning soccer ahead of rugby football, as ball for foot is ambiguous and is probably not the origin of the word, as the word was used for a sport originally and ball is not a sport. So that is why soccer should be kicked off the football page and I am insulted in the opening mention to it being the most popular form without giving the clarification that only the pommys call it football(and even than it has only become universal in the past 50 years, whereass before that clubs like Wigan FC definitely didnt play soccer and didnt compromise over the fact that they were a football club). So please change it somebody when they get the chance, and while we are at it, change the name of the soccer article. -- Poo thrasher 10:20, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Native speakers of English throughout the world know what sport the term "soccer" refers to. However, the term "football" refers to too many different sports to be used in place of "soccer" in an international publication such as Wikipedia. Mathnarg 20:27, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Do we need:
IMPORTANT NOTE to editors: we have a length problem! That is why there is a Mediæval football article. Please do not add new material to this section unless it is significant -- please put any new material in the Mediæval football article _before_ you add it to this section. Thank you.
Repeated 10 times in the history section, is not once enough at the top of the section? -- Nate1481( t/ c) 13:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The article attracts a lot of interest and one consequence of this is it that it gets a lot of editing from people who don't read articles properly (see the numerous misinformed comments about the content above) and who don't understand understand the norms and style of Wikipedia. Grant | Talk 18:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ever since I found this page a long time ago, I've thought we should split it off. Football should be a disambiguation page, with the main 3 uses (rugby, gridiron, and soccer) at the top. The bulk of this text could go in football (history), and what's left of this page could become a disambiguation. This makes much more sense. 95% of people typing in football are looking for information on one of the specific sports, and if they're interested in reading about the pre-split history, they can click on that in the disambiguation page. The Evil Spartan 00:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it is "confusing". On the contrary, I think the introduction is perfectly clear. As Gordy has suggested, this article began as a dab page, which became complicated to the point of confusion and uselessness. The historical development of these football games serves to explain why so many very different games are all called "football". Grant | Talk 07:11, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Well I get the impression these are suppose to be what all games involve? it starts of good... but then there are many "in some codes" etc. shouldn't they be removed? I at least thought that list was, things that are the same in all codes of football. Chandler talk 18:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
In 1363, King Edward III of England issued a proclamation banning "...handball, football, or hockey; coursing and cock-fighting, or other such idle games", showing that "football" — whatever its exact form in this case — was being differentiated from games involving other parts of the body, such as handball.
King Henry IV of England gives the earliest documented use of the English word "football", in 1409, when he issued a proclamation forbidding the levying of money for "foteball".[6][7]''
That was taken from this article, but doesn't it seem to be contradictory? If Edward III issued a proclamation banning football in 1363 why is Henry IV's proclamation being referred to as the "earliest documented use of football" if it came more than 40 years later? 157.252.165.109 ( talk) 18:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)