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![]() | A fact from First mass transport of Jews to Auschwitz concentration camp appeared on Wikipedia's
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The first mass transport of Jews to Auschwitz wasn't from Slovakia, but Poland. See Auschwitz concentration camp#First mass transport of_Jews. SarahSV (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't think you're correct. Both Wachsmann and Longerich state that this was the first mass transport of Jews. I would consider them better quality sources than Czech. b uidh e 22:59, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
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help)1. Danuta Czech, The Auschwitz Chronicle, Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, 1990, p. 135 (also in Czech, Auschwitz 1940–1945, Volume V, 2000, p. 142): "February 15, 1942: The first transport of Jews who have been arrested by the Stapo and destined for death in Auschwitz arrives from Beuthen. They are unloaded on the platform of the camp siding. They have to leave their bags on the platform. The standby squad takes charge of the deportees from the Stapo and leads them to the gas chamber in the camp crematorium. There they are killed with Zyklon B gas."
2. Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum: "Anniversary of the First Transport of Polish Jews to Auschwitz", 13 February 2006: "February 15 is the 64th anniversary of the first deportation of Polish Jews to Auschwitz. A transport of Jews arrested by the Gestapo in Bytom arrived that day in 1942. They were all liquidated immediately after arriving." SarahSV (talk) 02:17, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
3. Franciszek Piper, Auschwitz 1940–1945, Volume III: Mass Murder, 2000, p. 14: "In February 1942, Auschwitz was incorporated into the destruction of German Jewry. The first transports were brought here from the parts of Upper Silesia (Bytom and Gliwice) that had been German before the war."
4. Franciszek Piper, ibid., p. 219: "The first known date of arrival of a Jewish transport is that of several hundreds of Jews from Bytom (Beuten) on February 15 1942. The whole transport was murdered." Citing Höss (Broszat, ed., 1958, p. 160, note 2).
5. Rudolf Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz, Phoenix Press, 2000, p. 148: "In the spring of 1942 the first transports of Jews, all earmarked for extermination, arrived from Upper Silesia." Note 3: "One of the first, if not the very first, of these was a transport of Jews from Beuthen on 15 February, 1942." SarahSV (talk) 07:03, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
6. Sybille Steinbacher, Auschwitz: A History, 2005, p. 107: "The first German Jews on a transport organized by the RSHA arrived from Vienna in mid-July 1942. German Jews from Beuthen had already been transported to Auschwitz in February 1942, probably in connection with regional anti-Jewish measures in Upper Silesia."
7. Mary Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz: Ordinary Nazis and the Holocaust. Oxford University Press, 2012, pp. 220–221:
Gunter Faerber, for example, recalled the moment in February 1942 when the Jews of Beuthen (Bytom in Polish), where his grandmother lived, were brought through Bedzin on their way to Auschwitz. ... Two large army trucks of Jewish women from Beuthen were brought "straight to the station, they were queuing at the station":
- "I was still given a chance to say goodbye because we knew already ... that the women of Beuthen are arriving ... I went down to the station, I saw the long queue of women."
Faerber asked permission of a Gestapo guard to go up to his grandmother, who was with her sister, "and I said goodbye, and that was the last I saw of them and the whole transport was moved out by train ..."
The first gassings of Jews from Upper Silesia, including very probably Gunter Faerber's grandmother, took place on 15 February in the gas chamber of Crematorium I, in the main Auschwitz camp.
That's a description of a "mass transport". SarahSV (talk) 03:32, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
I've edited the section in the Auschwitz article to introduce sources saying other than February 1942, so that gives a quick overview for now. I don't have time at the moment to look for more sources. There was also a transport of Polish Jews around 20 March 1942; they went straight to the gas chamber. See Czech 2000, p. 143. SarahSV (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2020 (UTC) Noting that the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum also says 15 February: "February 15, 1942: The first transport of Jews from Bytom (Beuthen) in German-annexed Upper Silesia arrives in Auschwitz I. The SS camp authorities kill all those on the transport immediately upon arrival with Zyklon B gas."
That doesn't necessarily mean anything; there are mistakes and inconsistencies on their site, as there are in the work of all the historians, unsurprisingly given the confusion of primary sources. Still, if this had been convincingly refuted by 2015 (e.g. by Longerich and Wachsmann), I'd expect the USHMM to have removed it by 2020. SarahSV (talk) 22:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
February 15, 1942: "The first transport of Jews who have been arrested by the Stapo and destined for death in Auschwitz arrives from Beuthen. They are unloaded on the platform of the camp siding. They have to leave their bags on the platform. The standby squad takes charge of the deportees from the Stapo and leads them to the gas chamber in the camp crematorium. There they are killed with Zyklon B gas."
She cites Martin Broszat, Pery Broad and Rudolf Höss. Also see Auschwitz concentration camp#First mass transport of Jews; Beuthen Jewish Community; and Bytom Synagogue. SarahSV (talk) 23:25, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Longerich:
Instead, in the spring of 1942 three groups of Jewish prisoners came to Auschwitz: the first mass transports of Jews to Auschwitz were made up of Slovakian Jews, of whom four transports of young women, some 3,800 in total, arrived between 26 March and 7 April.
He cites Longerich, Politik, p. 492. Previously, (p. 281) Longerich states:
There is a series of indications that even before the end of the year [1941] several smaller groups of Jews were also murdered in Auschwitz with Zyklon B; presumably they were the ones who had been selected from the Schmelt camps as no longer fit for work.
But, evidently these are not considered mass transports. Wachsmann states that "Systematic mass deportations of Jews to Auschwitz began in late March 1942. The first RSHA train, carrying 999 women from Slovakia, arrived on March 26" b uidh e 23:42, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Buidhe has nominated this for DYK. Some of the outstanding issues:
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Buidhe, the point I was making about the photograph was a different one. The photograph is jarring. The women are wearing clean clothes and look as though they're having fun at a bring-and-buy sale. The article should explain that they were members of the "Kanada kommando" at the Kanada warehouses. The Vrba–Wetzler report describes the extra privileges these Slovakian women had, that their situation was unusual, and that conditions had not always been like that for them. (In fact, many of them died because of the atrocious conditions in the women's camp.) The report was written in April 1944 and the photograph was taken around May 1944, so the report is clearly describing the group to which the women in the photograph belonged. In addition, one of the women in the photograph, Linda Breder (Libusha Reich), was on the 26 March 1942 transport from Slovakia. For all these reasons, I think the article should mention that part of the report.
As for Macadam's book, it isn't an RS for Auschwitz, except perhaps for interviews with survivors. The article should reflect the scholarly consensus regarding the date of the first transport (the first overall if the title states that) and the number of women on the 26 March transport. Saying just under a thousand would be fine—Höss said the transports never numbered more than a thousand—but the article should also explain about the serial numbers, and Czech is the source for that and 999. Consider moving the page to a title that reflects that this was the first RSHA mass transport. SarahSV (talk) 05:19, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
As for Macadam's book, it isn't an RS for Auschwitzwhy not? The book has been published in both the US and UK by reliable, if non-academic, presses. Take it up with RSN if you disagree.
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![]() | A fact from First mass transport of Jews to Auschwitz concentration camp appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 26 March 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
The first mass transport of Jews to Auschwitz wasn't from Slovakia, but Poland. See Auschwitz concentration camp#First mass transport of_Jews. SarahSV (talk) 22:39, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
I don't think you're correct. Both Wachsmann and Longerich state that this was the first mass transport of Jews. I would consider them better quality sources than Czech. b uidh e 22:59, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
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help){{
cite journal}}
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(
help)1. Danuta Czech, The Auschwitz Chronicle, Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, 1990, p. 135 (also in Czech, Auschwitz 1940–1945, Volume V, 2000, p. 142): "February 15, 1942: The first transport of Jews who have been arrested by the Stapo and destined for death in Auschwitz arrives from Beuthen. They are unloaded on the platform of the camp siding. They have to leave their bags on the platform. The standby squad takes charge of the deportees from the Stapo and leads them to the gas chamber in the camp crematorium. There they are killed with Zyklon B gas."
2. Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum: "Anniversary of the First Transport of Polish Jews to Auschwitz", 13 February 2006: "February 15 is the 64th anniversary of the first deportation of Polish Jews to Auschwitz. A transport of Jews arrested by the Gestapo in Bytom arrived that day in 1942. They were all liquidated immediately after arriving." SarahSV (talk) 02:17, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
3. Franciszek Piper, Auschwitz 1940–1945, Volume III: Mass Murder, 2000, p. 14: "In February 1942, Auschwitz was incorporated into the destruction of German Jewry. The first transports were brought here from the parts of Upper Silesia (Bytom and Gliwice) that had been German before the war."
4. Franciszek Piper, ibid., p. 219: "The first known date of arrival of a Jewish transport is that of several hundreds of Jews from Bytom (Beuten) on February 15 1942. The whole transport was murdered." Citing Höss (Broszat, ed., 1958, p. 160, note 2).
5. Rudolf Hoess, Commandant of Auschwitz, Phoenix Press, 2000, p. 148: "In the spring of 1942 the first transports of Jews, all earmarked for extermination, arrived from Upper Silesia." Note 3: "One of the first, if not the very first, of these was a transport of Jews from Beuthen on 15 February, 1942." SarahSV (talk) 07:03, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
6. Sybille Steinbacher, Auschwitz: A History, 2005, p. 107: "The first German Jews on a transport organized by the RSHA arrived from Vienna in mid-July 1942. German Jews from Beuthen had already been transported to Auschwitz in February 1942, probably in connection with regional anti-Jewish measures in Upper Silesia."
7. Mary Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz: Ordinary Nazis and the Holocaust. Oxford University Press, 2012, pp. 220–221:
Gunter Faerber, for example, recalled the moment in February 1942 when the Jews of Beuthen (Bytom in Polish), where his grandmother lived, were brought through Bedzin on their way to Auschwitz. ... Two large army trucks of Jewish women from Beuthen were brought "straight to the station, they were queuing at the station":
- "I was still given a chance to say goodbye because we knew already ... that the women of Beuthen are arriving ... I went down to the station, I saw the long queue of women."
Faerber asked permission of a Gestapo guard to go up to his grandmother, who was with her sister, "and I said goodbye, and that was the last I saw of them and the whole transport was moved out by train ..."
The first gassings of Jews from Upper Silesia, including very probably Gunter Faerber's grandmother, took place on 15 February in the gas chamber of Crematorium I, in the main Auschwitz camp.
That's a description of a "mass transport". SarahSV (talk) 03:32, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
I've edited the section in the Auschwitz article to introduce sources saying other than February 1942, so that gives a quick overview for now. I don't have time at the moment to look for more sources. There was also a transport of Polish Jews around 20 March 1942; they went straight to the gas chamber. See Czech 2000, p. 143. SarahSV (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2020 (UTC) Noting that the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum also says 15 February: "February 15, 1942: The first transport of Jews from Bytom (Beuthen) in German-annexed Upper Silesia arrives in Auschwitz I. The SS camp authorities kill all those on the transport immediately upon arrival with Zyklon B gas."
That doesn't necessarily mean anything; there are mistakes and inconsistencies on their site, as there are in the work of all the historians, unsurprisingly given the confusion of primary sources. Still, if this had been convincingly refuted by 2015 (e.g. by Longerich and Wachsmann), I'd expect the USHMM to have removed it by 2020. SarahSV (talk) 22:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
February 15, 1942: "The first transport of Jews who have been arrested by the Stapo and destined for death in Auschwitz arrives from Beuthen. They are unloaded on the platform of the camp siding. They have to leave their bags on the platform. The standby squad takes charge of the deportees from the Stapo and leads them to the gas chamber in the camp crematorium. There they are killed with Zyklon B gas."
She cites Martin Broszat, Pery Broad and Rudolf Höss. Also see Auschwitz concentration camp#First mass transport of Jews; Beuthen Jewish Community; and Bytom Synagogue. SarahSV (talk) 23:25, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Longerich:
Instead, in the spring of 1942 three groups of Jewish prisoners came to Auschwitz: the first mass transports of Jews to Auschwitz were made up of Slovakian Jews, of whom four transports of young women, some 3,800 in total, arrived between 26 March and 7 April.
He cites Longerich, Politik, p. 492. Previously, (p. 281) Longerich states:
There is a series of indications that even before the end of the year [1941] several smaller groups of Jews were also murdered in Auschwitz with Zyklon B; presumably they were the ones who had been selected from the Schmelt camps as no longer fit for work.
But, evidently these are not considered mass transports. Wachsmann states that "Systematic mass deportations of Jews to Auschwitz began in late March 1942. The first RSHA train, carrying 999 women from Slovakia, arrived on March 26" b uidh e 23:42, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Buidhe has nominated this for DYK. Some of the outstanding issues:
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
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help)
Buidhe, the point I was making about the photograph was a different one. The photograph is jarring. The women are wearing clean clothes and look as though they're having fun at a bring-and-buy sale. The article should explain that they were members of the "Kanada kommando" at the Kanada warehouses. The Vrba–Wetzler report describes the extra privileges these Slovakian women had, that their situation was unusual, and that conditions had not always been like that for them. (In fact, many of them died because of the atrocious conditions in the women's camp.) The report was written in April 1944 and the photograph was taken around May 1944, so the report is clearly describing the group to which the women in the photograph belonged. In addition, one of the women in the photograph, Linda Breder (Libusha Reich), was on the 26 March 1942 transport from Slovakia. For all these reasons, I think the article should mention that part of the report.
As for Macadam's book, it isn't an RS for Auschwitz, except perhaps for interviews with survivors. The article should reflect the scholarly consensus regarding the date of the first transport (the first overall if the title states that) and the number of women on the 26 March transport. Saying just under a thousand would be fine—Höss said the transports never numbered more than a thousand—but the article should also explain about the serial numbers, and Czech is the source for that and 999. Consider moving the page to a title that reflects that this was the first RSHA mass transport. SarahSV (talk) 05:19, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
As for Macadam's book, it isn't an RS for Auschwitzwhy not? The book has been published in both the US and UK by reliable, if non-academic, presses. Take it up with RSN if you disagree.