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I think this article is going to need some work to meet the FA criteria. The original version from 2007 was 8682 words long; the article is now 12914 words, raising concerns about bloating. The sourcing on the 2007 version also looks superior to the current version, which relies too much on news reporting (while there is an abundance of scholarly sources that discuss this conflict). I am not convinced that sources like today.az or Markar Melkonian's book about his brother are high-quality reliable sources for this topic. Restoring the 2007 version is not an option, however, because of new developments on this issue such as the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war. There is also unsourced content in the article and some of the notes. Therefore, I think this may need featured article review. ( t · c) buidhe 06:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
buidhe, Brandmeister, Rosguill, MarshallBagramyan and Z1720: my attention was just drawn to this article regarding its FA status and I see this discussion of about a year ago. A quick look and I see perhaps a half-dozen or more unsourced paragraphs. I can also see that the infobox is a mess and that is without beginning to have a closer look. Cinderella157 ( talk) 05:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Comments Here are some initial observations in respect to the article. These are made in respect to Wikipedia:Featured article criteria and Wikipedia:Compare criteria Good v. Featured article.
Some of these issues I might be able to address - some I might not. I do not profess to be an expert on this subject and the magnitude of changes are probably beyond my capacity. There is also the issue of WP:DS and, rightly or wrongly, this is likely to impede the process. I don't see this being resolved in the reasonable future (though I might be pleasantly surprised). Cinderella157 ( talk) 12:28, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Dates of war: MarshallBagramyan, are there sources that assign the dates of the war and particularly when it started. Many of the earlier events within the present date range precede the war "proper" as written in the article. IAW the "standard" MILHIST format, these might better be described as the "prelude" to the war - unless sources are indicating otherwise? Cinderella157 ( talk) 09:58, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Weaponry table: ( First Nagorno-Karabakh War#Building armies) The table in its present format isn't reader friendly where it presents figures for Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh in a single column (with a total). These should be divided into three separate columns. As I have already said, tables aren't my thing. Obviously, unsourced material should also be deleted. Cinderella157 ( talk) 08:55, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Beligerents in infobox There are entries under this of of "arms suppliers" and "foreign groups". There are multiple issues with this. Firstly, it would, by virtue of the heading, classify the entries as "beligerents", regardless of sources. There are sources but a source should classify them as belligerents for them to be labeled as such. Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE we don't write the article in the infobox. Most of this isn't supported by the body of the article; or, if it is, not in a coherent way that would support the broad classifications - ie one cannot see a clear section/s that support same (to the extent indicateding the infobox). There is clearly nuance to the entries broadly (by headings) and specifically, that cannot be captured by dot-point entries in an infobox (I realise that they are not actually 'dot-pointed'). Attempts to justify inclusion in the infobox that aren't 'explicitly' supported by sources or clearly supported by the body of the article would appear to fall to WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Given the present sate of the article, I would propose deleting these entries from the infobox. Cinderella157 ( talk) 11:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Rendering of citation To the following citation: <ref name="SIPRI1994">{{cite web |title=SIPRI Yearbook 1994 |url=https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/SIPRI%20Yearbook%201994.pdf |website=sipri.org |publisher=[[Stockholm International Peace Research Institute]] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200826153836/https://www.sipri.org/yearbook/1994 |archive-date=26 August 2020 |date=1994 |page=88 }}{{'''harvnb'''|Chorbajian Donabedian Mutafian|1994|pp=[https://books.google.am/books?id=OUlnYdOHJ3wC&pg=PA14 13–18]}} Table of conflict locations with at least one major armed conflict in 1993</ref>
I have been able to have the citation render by changing "sfn" to "harvnb" where it didn't render at all before (see citation 14 here). It now renders as follows:
I'm not certain, but I don't think that the italicised text is actually necessary or even if it refers to the second source but the first source that does contain a table. I can't actually see the pages linked in the second source. Unless there is good reason not to, it would be better to split this combined citation into two - loosing the italicised text. Just checking first. Cinderella157 ( talk) 04:06, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
suggest adding link NKR 2A02:1812:1126:5D00:8403:95E1:2C28:96EC ( talk) 08:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
First Nagorno-Karabakh War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
Armenia,
Azerbaijan, or related conflicts, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | First Nagorno-Karabakh War is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 2, 2009. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think this article is going to need some work to meet the FA criteria. The original version from 2007 was 8682 words long; the article is now 12914 words, raising concerns about bloating. The sourcing on the 2007 version also looks superior to the current version, which relies too much on news reporting (while there is an abundance of scholarly sources that discuss this conflict). I am not convinced that sources like today.az or Markar Melkonian's book about his brother are high-quality reliable sources for this topic. Restoring the 2007 version is not an option, however, because of new developments on this issue such as the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war. There is also unsourced content in the article and some of the notes. Therefore, I think this may need featured article review. ( t · c) buidhe 06:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
buidhe, Brandmeister, Rosguill, MarshallBagramyan and Z1720: my attention was just drawn to this article regarding its FA status and I see this discussion of about a year ago. A quick look and I see perhaps a half-dozen or more unsourced paragraphs. I can also see that the infobox is a mess and that is without beginning to have a closer look. Cinderella157 ( talk) 05:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Comments Here are some initial observations in respect to the article. These are made in respect to Wikipedia:Featured article criteria and Wikipedia:Compare criteria Good v. Featured article.
Some of these issues I might be able to address - some I might not. I do not profess to be an expert on this subject and the magnitude of changes are probably beyond my capacity. There is also the issue of WP:DS and, rightly or wrongly, this is likely to impede the process. I don't see this being resolved in the reasonable future (though I might be pleasantly surprised). Cinderella157 ( talk) 12:28, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Dates of war: MarshallBagramyan, are there sources that assign the dates of the war and particularly when it started. Many of the earlier events within the present date range precede the war "proper" as written in the article. IAW the "standard" MILHIST format, these might better be described as the "prelude" to the war - unless sources are indicating otherwise? Cinderella157 ( talk) 09:58, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Weaponry table: ( First Nagorno-Karabakh War#Building armies) The table in its present format isn't reader friendly where it presents figures for Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh in a single column (with a total). These should be divided into three separate columns. As I have already said, tables aren't my thing. Obviously, unsourced material should also be deleted. Cinderella157 ( talk) 08:55, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Beligerents in infobox There are entries under this of of "arms suppliers" and "foreign groups". There are multiple issues with this. Firstly, it would, by virtue of the heading, classify the entries as "beligerents", regardless of sources. There are sources but a source should classify them as belligerents for them to be labeled as such. Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE we don't write the article in the infobox. Most of this isn't supported by the body of the article; or, if it is, not in a coherent way that would support the broad classifications - ie one cannot see a clear section/s that support same (to the extent indicateding the infobox). There is clearly nuance to the entries broadly (by headings) and specifically, that cannot be captured by dot-point entries in an infobox (I realise that they are not actually 'dot-pointed'). Attempts to justify inclusion in the infobox that aren't 'explicitly' supported by sources or clearly supported by the body of the article would appear to fall to WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Given the present sate of the article, I would propose deleting these entries from the infobox. Cinderella157 ( talk) 11:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
Rendering of citation To the following citation: <ref name="SIPRI1994">{{cite web |title=SIPRI Yearbook 1994 |url=https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/SIPRI%20Yearbook%201994.pdf |website=sipri.org |publisher=[[Stockholm International Peace Research Institute]] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200826153836/https://www.sipri.org/yearbook/1994 |archive-date=26 August 2020 |date=1994 |page=88 }}{{'''harvnb'''|Chorbajian Donabedian Mutafian|1994|pp=[https://books.google.am/books?id=OUlnYdOHJ3wC&pg=PA14 13–18]}} Table of conflict locations with at least one major armed conflict in 1993</ref>
I have been able to have the citation render by changing "sfn" to "harvnb" where it didn't render at all before (see citation 14 here). It now renders as follows:
I'm not certain, but I don't think that the italicised text is actually necessary or even if it refers to the second source but the first source that does contain a table. I can't actually see the pages linked in the second source. Unless there is good reason not to, it would be better to split this combined citation into two - loosing the italicised text. Just checking first. Cinderella157 ( talk) 04:06, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
suggest adding link NKR 2A02:1812:1126:5D00:8403:95E1:2C28:96EC ( talk) 08:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)