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Is this article for Fiat branded cars of what?? Company that produces Fiats is Fiat Automobiles Spa as the article title suggest, but this article has general info of Fiat Group cars, which belongs to main Fiat page--— Typ932 T | C 11:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
This section is sourced and appropriate. I have now rewritten it to be more balanced. As a widely used meme I see no reason for its removal. The way forward is to add more balancing material if appropriate. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 22:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Guess what, G87 - "Fix or Repair Daily" is covered and cited in Backronym (as is "Fix It Again Tony," for that matter). If it's documented/cited in an objectively written article, it's an appropriate redirect. Second, the current article has been tagged for a year as being in need for expansion... especially since it is completely lacking in historical detail and similarly lacking in objectivity. This is not an article about awards (yet the awards section tops the display): it's about the company itself. In light of recent events dealing with Chrysler (I'm sure you must admit that the Chrysler bankruptcy and partnership with Fiat is most significant on both sides of the Atlantic and as such, an exposition about it should be included in this article), the company's ill-fated first foray in America should also be mentioned and put into appropriate historical context. This includes the backronym. Look at my posts - I've been urging you or the two other editors who have been in an edit war about this redirect simply to write the section to put this into proper perspective. Instead of holding your ground, a superior article can arise by putting the historical pieces together. Note also that, in the context of RfD WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason for deletion: simply couch the information in the most appropriate light to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. Simply listing awards without objectively giving the complete historical picture is every bit a violation as converting the article into a complete attack essay. B.Wind ( talk) 05:32, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
It's starting to look better, thanks in no small part to Bridgeplayer. Now the backronym isn't the primary focus of the section but still significant enough that it should be mentioned. The statistics certainly help here. There's more to do for the entire article, but it's closer to NPOV than it was two days ago. More can be added, of course, but at least it's headed in the right direction. User:Typ932 mentioned that Fiat Automobiles is a new division of Fiat, and that needs to be mentioned somewhere as well (see Chrysler for something similar). The same is true for Fiat brands sold in other parts of the world. When you have the "highest of the highs" and the "lowest of the lows" with nothing else in between, the effect to the reader can be devastating. 147.70.242.54 ( talk) 23:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Dale Gribble uses the "Fix it again tony" thing in King of the Hill. KingRaven (>$.$)> ( talk) 07:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I think You are free to add those jokes to other car articles aswell, if they are properly sourced, you are also free to edit these, and wait what happens.... "Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles (except in certain cases where editing is restricted to prevent disruption or vandalism). " --> Typ932 T· C 07:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
It would be helpful to the development of this page if editors would kindly desist from the removal of sourced content such as here. If it is considered that sourced text is inappropriate then it should be brought here, first, please. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 23:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
How does one of the world's oldest car companies have such a short weak article? Where is the history of the marque? There are companies born yesterday with articles ten times as long. This article does not do the company justice. Dino246 ( talk) 21:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
This article looks promising but needs some work. The main issue is the "current models" list. As it sits it's completely illegible, with images on both sides of the page and text shifting around all over the place. If I were browsing the internet and came across this article, I don't think I'd bother reading through it.
There is List of Fiat models since 1899 which could be a better place for this. Thoughts? -- Sable232 ( talk) 00:30, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
How is it that a company that has been making automobiles for more than a century does not have a history section? Sincerely, SamBlob ( talk) 00:32, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
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In my opinion, Fiat should lead to Fiat (disambiguation). --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 01:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
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Fiat S.p.A. and Fiat Automobiles are two different manufacters; Fiat spa was founded in 2011 ( https://www.google.it/search?q=fiat+spa+1+gennaio+2011&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=IobKWbbFD4jA8ge3lZmACw) while Fiat Automobiles in 1899, but Fiat spa history section said that it was founded in 1899; the page is wrong! The section must be moved in the Fiat A. page. -- Howard "Dib" Montjio, 26 september 2017
There has been some edit warring about whether FIAT was popularly known as "Fix It Again Tony" when it left the US market in 1983. I generally prefer that these types of remarks are left out of WP articles because almost all brands have similar derogatory acronyms (see above #Fix it again Tony section) and they are not particularly helpful to anybody. I'm slightly more inclined to leave it in for this article but only because it seems that FIAT had such a bad reputation in the US at the time that the derogatory joke was seen as being true. Mind you, I'd want more than a single reference to back it up that this is what most American buyers thought and not just a minority. Thoughts. Stepho talk 03:31, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
That's it? Not nearly enough.In 1983, Fiat left the United States car market with a reputation for poor quality cars in North America, mostly rust and poor reliability.
I see editors here saying the Fiat quality problems were exceptional and that makes this a unique case. (Unlike "Chevy Nova means no va -- doesn't go -- in Spanish, or "The Parts Falling Off This Car Are Of Finest British Quality"). You keep teasing this story about how Fiat had a special place in the automotive hall of shame, but then you don't tell me that story. I'm excited to hear all about it. Telling me this (lame, somewhat racist dad joke) acronym is extremely uninformative. "Fiat cars were sooooo unreliable they said Fiat stands for fix it again Tony!" womp womp
There were specific reasons why Edward Turner chose not to invest anything in fixing the oil leaks on Triumph motorcycles in the 1960s. They were already selling every bike they could make in their quaint, antiquated workshops, and he believed the market was saturated. Turner toured Japan and said the staggeringly large-capacity factory Honda was building at Suzuka was a huge mistake, and MITI thought Turner was right. Honda knew that but they believed they could make the saturated market several times larger by selling to a whole different demographic with the Honda Super Cub and their You meet the nicest people on a Honda campaign. Etc. It's an interesting story, and it shows people with some intelligence making decisions for reasons. Not some simple minded "durrr, Italians are stupid. Fiat sucks" nonsense.
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections says pretty much the same thing. We don't have a rule against mentioning which model of car James Bond drove in each movie or where the name 'Edsel' comes from, but just sticking trival facts into an article without context is lazy and unhelpful. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 17:15, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Is this article for Fiat branded cars of what?? Company that produces Fiats is Fiat Automobiles Spa as the article title suggest, but this article has general info of Fiat Group cars, which belongs to main Fiat page--— Typ932 T | C 11:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
This section is sourced and appropriate. I have now rewritten it to be more balanced. As a widely used meme I see no reason for its removal. The way forward is to add more balancing material if appropriate. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 22:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
Guess what, G87 - "Fix or Repair Daily" is covered and cited in Backronym (as is "Fix It Again Tony," for that matter). If it's documented/cited in an objectively written article, it's an appropriate redirect. Second, the current article has been tagged for a year as being in need for expansion... especially since it is completely lacking in historical detail and similarly lacking in objectivity. This is not an article about awards (yet the awards section tops the display): it's about the company itself. In light of recent events dealing with Chrysler (I'm sure you must admit that the Chrysler bankruptcy and partnership with Fiat is most significant on both sides of the Atlantic and as such, an exposition about it should be included in this article), the company's ill-fated first foray in America should also be mentioned and put into appropriate historical context. This includes the backronym. Look at my posts - I've been urging you or the two other editors who have been in an edit war about this redirect simply to write the section to put this into proper perspective. Instead of holding your ground, a superior article can arise by putting the historical pieces together. Note also that, in the context of RfD WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason for deletion: simply couch the information in the most appropriate light to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. Simply listing awards without objectively giving the complete historical picture is every bit a violation as converting the article into a complete attack essay. B.Wind ( talk) 05:32, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
It's starting to look better, thanks in no small part to Bridgeplayer. Now the backronym isn't the primary focus of the section but still significant enough that it should be mentioned. The statistics certainly help here. There's more to do for the entire article, but it's closer to NPOV than it was two days ago. More can be added, of course, but at least it's headed in the right direction. User:Typ932 mentioned that Fiat Automobiles is a new division of Fiat, and that needs to be mentioned somewhere as well (see Chrysler for something similar). The same is true for Fiat brands sold in other parts of the world. When you have the "highest of the highs" and the "lowest of the lows" with nothing else in between, the effect to the reader can be devastating. 147.70.242.54 ( talk) 23:23, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Dale Gribble uses the "Fix it again tony" thing in King of the Hill. KingRaven (>$.$)> ( talk) 07:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
I think You are free to add those jokes to other car articles aswell, if they are properly sourced, you are also free to edit these, and wait what happens.... "Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles (except in certain cases where editing is restricted to prevent disruption or vandalism). " --> Typ932 T· C 07:11, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
It would be helpful to the development of this page if editors would kindly desist from the removal of sourced content such as here. If it is considered that sourced text is inappropriate then it should be brought here, first, please. Bridgeplayer ( talk) 23:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
How does one of the world's oldest car companies have such a short weak article? Where is the history of the marque? There are companies born yesterday with articles ten times as long. This article does not do the company justice. Dino246 ( talk) 21:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
This article looks promising but needs some work. The main issue is the "current models" list. As it sits it's completely illegible, with images on both sides of the page and text shifting around all over the place. If I were browsing the internet and came across this article, I don't think I'd bother reading through it.
There is List of Fiat models since 1899 which could be a better place for this. Thoughts? -- Sable232 ( talk) 00:30, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
How is it that a company that has been making automobiles for more than a century does not have a history section? Sincerely, SamBlob ( talk) 00:32, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
In my opinion, Fiat should lead to Fiat (disambiguation). --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 01:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
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Fiat S.p.A. and Fiat Automobiles are two different manufacters; Fiat spa was founded in 2011 ( https://www.google.it/search?q=fiat+spa+1+gennaio+2011&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=IobKWbbFD4jA8ge3lZmACw) while Fiat Automobiles in 1899, but Fiat spa history section said that it was founded in 1899; the page is wrong! The section must be moved in the Fiat A. page. -- Howard "Dib" Montjio, 26 september 2017
There has been some edit warring about whether FIAT was popularly known as "Fix It Again Tony" when it left the US market in 1983. I generally prefer that these types of remarks are left out of WP articles because almost all brands have similar derogatory acronyms (see above #Fix it again Tony section) and they are not particularly helpful to anybody. I'm slightly more inclined to leave it in for this article but only because it seems that FIAT had such a bad reputation in the US at the time that the derogatory joke was seen as being true. Mind you, I'd want more than a single reference to back it up that this is what most American buyers thought and not just a minority. Thoughts. Stepho talk 03:31, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
That's it? Not nearly enough.In 1983, Fiat left the United States car market with a reputation for poor quality cars in North America, mostly rust and poor reliability.
I see editors here saying the Fiat quality problems were exceptional and that makes this a unique case. (Unlike "Chevy Nova means no va -- doesn't go -- in Spanish, or "The Parts Falling Off This Car Are Of Finest British Quality"). You keep teasing this story about how Fiat had a special place in the automotive hall of shame, but then you don't tell me that story. I'm excited to hear all about it. Telling me this (lame, somewhat racist dad joke) acronym is extremely uninformative. "Fiat cars were sooooo unreliable they said Fiat stands for fix it again Tony!" womp womp
There were specific reasons why Edward Turner chose not to invest anything in fixing the oil leaks on Triumph motorcycles in the 1960s. They were already selling every bike they could make in their quaint, antiquated workshops, and he believed the market was saturated. Turner toured Japan and said the staggeringly large-capacity factory Honda was building at Suzuka was a huge mistake, and MITI thought Turner was right. Honda knew that but they believed they could make the saturated market several times larger by selling to a whole different demographic with the Honda Super Cub and their You meet the nicest people on a Honda campaign. Etc. It's an interesting story, and it shows people with some intelligence making decisions for reasons. Not some simple minded "durrr, Italians are stupid. Fiat sucks" nonsense.
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trivia sections says pretty much the same thing. We don't have a rule against mentioning which model of car James Bond drove in each movie or where the name 'Edsel' comes from, but just sticking trival facts into an article without context is lazy and unhelpful. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 17:15, 20 October 2018 (UTC)