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From Italian to read that the fettuccine Alfredo and fettuccine al burro are the same thing is bad. "Fettuccine Alfredo" originated in Italy, but over time the Americans have Americanised it by adding random ingredients (e.g. chicken), ignoring the right combinations of flavours (for people with a food culture, chicken on pasta isn't a respectable combination), as unfortunately they still do very often, and now there is no longer an Italian dish called "fettuccine Alfredo" (except for only two Italian restaurants that still prepare it). In Italy we have a pasta dish called "pasta al burro", but it isn't the same as "fettuccine Alfredo"; they're two different dishes, although quite similar. I propose deleting the "or fettuccine al burro" phrase (in the second line). JacktheBrown ( talk) 22:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
we Italians say it's an objectively wrong combination, we're very, very reliableconstitutes Original research which is forbidden on Wikipedia. Who appointed you the spokesperson for "we Italians"? Hundreds of millions of people worldwide frequently eat chicken and pasta dishes without being poisoned or vomiting, so your objectivity in this matter is in question. All that matters is what reliable sources say, not what anonymous Wikipedia editors say. You know this. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Our article reads: in Italy this dish is usually called simply "fettuccine al burro"
, although outside of Rome, "fettuccine" is called "tagliatelle" (Italian wikipedia redirects from the former to the latter). Also, in Italy, the "dish" itself – in so much as there is such a thing beyond the restaurant that makes it – would likely be called "pasta in bianco" or "pasta al burro e parmigiano" (as it would likely be made with pretty much any pasta that's laying about in the pantry, not specifically "fettuccine"). --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
16:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
PS: Please see discussion at
Wikipedia:Help desk too. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
16:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
PPS: The folks who have one of the Roman restaurants that sells this "dish" have opened a branch in
Saudi Arabia. [NB: One has to wonder if the whole story is a clever marketing ploy (cooked up by the nonno, with a wink and a grin, way back in the day).] --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
clever marketing ploycooked up when their great-grandparents were young and gullible, Cl3phact0. While you are at it, examine the pasta sauce section of thousands of American supermarkets. Arguing against a century of reality as reflected by countless reliable sources is not a good strategy. Cullen328 ( talk) 10:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Americans who know anything about cuisines all know.]
@ Cl3phact0:, thanks to your answer. Now,
Cheers, Alex2006 ( talk) 16:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The recipe has never been secret. Our article gives multiple sources, which all agree. As for the story of the golden cutlery, it is very unclear. First of all, both of the current "Alfredo" restaurants apparently have a set. (So which is the real one?) Secondly, I've read that the originals were given to the Italian government for the war effort. (I can't find the reference right now.). Third, as far as I can tell, all the stories about the cutlery originate with the restaurant itself -- do we have any contemporary evidence from the Pickford/Fairbanks side? Fourth, as someone has pointed out, the English on the cutlery is not idiomatic. Overall, I'd say that the original story might be true (or not), but it is highly unlikely that what is currently being displayed is the original pair. -- Macrakis ( talk) 15:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
This is a work in progress. Please be patient. Any help, ehem, thickening-up the "In American culture" section would be appreciated. Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Will be back later and will try to finish-up this process over the weekend. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
12:00, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Macrakis: re: your reverts:
Recipes attributed to Di Lelio include only three ingredientsinto another section for two reasons: 1) to help establish the timeline of the recipe's evolution from the original; 2) because I was going to suggest deleting the entire remaining "Traditional preparation" section (which imparts virtually no information that isn't found elsewhere in the article, and includes an long block quote that's not much different from the earlier quote box quote).
Thoughts? Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 07:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
One of our references ( Barry Popik – which may itself be non-RS) contains a goldmine of possible references. There is also some interesting information about US "Alfredo's" restaurants that may have a direct link to the Roman one(s) in places like Rockefeller Center (1970s and 1980s), as well as some information about "Fettuccine Alfredo" trademarks (apparently abandoned in 2001), etc. These sources may be useful in understanding the events and timelines that led to this dish becoming a ubiquitous staple of Italo-American cuisine.
Adding the references and trademark info here for ease of viewing (less the large blocks of possibly copyvio text, the 2009 WP cut and paste, etc.).:
Southern Italy: Including Rome, Sicily, and Sardinia By Findlay Muirhead, Luigi Vittorio Bertarelli, Consociazione turistica itailana, Touring club italiano Edition: 2 Published by Macmillan and co., ltd. 1925 Pg. 4: ...d’ Alfredo, 104 a, Via della Scrofa, noted for fettuccine al burro;...
So You’re Going to Rome!
by Calara E. Laughlin
Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin Company
Copyright, 1925 and 1928
Pg. 351:
Most travellers would blush to admit they had been in Rome and had not eaten Alfredo’s fettucine al burro, a sort of macaroni with butter, which has netted Alfredo both fame and fortune. Alfredo is at 104 Via della Scrofa. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
6 May 1927, Cumberland (MD) Evening Times, pg. 6, cols. 2-3:
Knighted For His Spaghetti
How Alfredo Mixes Titled Fettuccine
(Photo Caption: “Alfredo di Lelio mixing fettuccine for a patron.”)
By ALICE ROHE
NEA Service Special Correspondent
Rome, May 6.—All the world knows that spaghetti is the reigning idsh in Italy. But what the world does not know perhaps is that the reigning king of Italy has knighted the owner of a little restaurant in Rome as the best spaghetti maker in the world. [NB: Added to article.]
8 June 1929, Modesto (CA) News-Herald, “Rector’s Recipes” by George Rector, pg. 10, col. 1:
I AM going to give a recipe to-day for noodles Alfredo, as prepared by Alfredo himself in his tiny restaurant in Rome, Italy. The act of mixing the butter and cheese through the noodles becomes quite a ceremony, and as busy as Alfredo is with other duties he manages to be at each table when the waiter arrives with the platter of “fettuccine” to be mixed by him.
Noodles Alfredo Cook noodles in boiling salted water for twnety minutes. Drain in colander and hold under cold water to separate, then hold under hot water to reheat. Drain, place noodles on a large, hot platter, sprinkle top with grated Parmesan cheese and add three lumps of butter about the size of a small egg. Now take a large spoon and a fork and lift noodles from platter until butter and cheese are thoroughly blended with the noodles. Alfredo spends at least seven minutes blending the butter and cheese through the noodles. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
3 June 1932, Indiana (PA) Evening Gazette, “How to Eat Spaghetti” by George Rector, pg. 15, col. 4: The best form of pasta is fettuccine, and some of the best fettuccine is published by Alfredo, Cavaliera della Corona d’Italia. Alfredo doesn’t make fettuccine. He doesn’t cook it. He achieves it.
I could go on for hours, painting the picture of Alfredo achieving his fettuccine. The ritual is as solemn and as breath taking as the majestic sight of the sun sinking over mountain tops. Rich calm beauty, and a deep promise of what is to come, plus an indefinable mystery. Yes, I know I’m waqxing poetic, but I stand my ground. Alfredo’s fettuccine is poetry.
10 December 1939, New York (NY) Herald Tribune This Week magazine, pg. 11, col. 3:
Finally there is the recipe for spaghetti (Col. 4—ed.) which Mr. Morro got from the famous Alfredo in Rome. It’s a very simple one but a great favorite among distinguished gourmets visiting Rome. We call it Alfredo’s Spaghetti [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
1 package (8 oz.) spaghetti 1/4 cup butter 1/4 cup grated cheese Cook spaghetti in boiling, salted water according to directions on package. While hot dot generously with butter; turn until butter is melted. Sprinkle with grated cheese. Yield 4-6 servings.
28 February 1951, Uniontown (PA) Evening Standard, “He Meets His First King” by Henry McLemore, pg. 4, col. 2:
ROME—I met my first king last night.
(...)
This jiggling monarch of 70 years of age was Alfredo the First, King of the Noodles, or in Italian, “Il Vero Re Delle Fettuccine.” [NB: Added to article.]
29 March 1956, Moravia (Iowa) Union, pg. 4, col. 6:
Last week we had fettuccine al Alfredo, which was described on some program by a chef just oof the plane from Rome—he even brought his own cheese—and then we had cherries jubilee for dessert. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
26 June 1957, New York (NY) Times,
"Food; Three Restaurants" by June Owen, pg. 48:
Fettuccine Alfredo, originated at the famous Alfredo’s in Rome, is another specialty ($1.65). The flat, noodlelike pasta is served with lots of butter and grated Parmesan cheese. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
10 April 1964, Oakland (CA) Tribune, Pg. D35, col. 5 ad:
FETTUCCINE ALFREDO…1.50 [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
(Trademark) Word Mark THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO SINCE 1914 Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: Pre-cooked, non-frozen and semi-fresh fettuccine seasoned with sauce; fresh fettuccine; and dried fettuccine Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 02.09.11 - Humans engaged in other work; Humans, including men, women and children, depicted engaged in other work 05.15.02 - Laurel leaves or branches (borders or frames); Wreaths 08.13.01 - Macaroni; Noodles; Pasta; Spaghetti 11.01.25 - Brushes, basting; Chopsticks; Churns, butter (manual); Cups, measuring; Fruit juices, non-electric; Garlic presses (non-electric); Graters, cheese; Holders, kitchen utensil; Ice cube trays; Juicers, non-electric; Ladles (soup); Measuring cups; Napkin holders; Other non-electric kitchen utensils, utensil holders; Pasta makers, non-electric; Potato peelers; Racks, kitchen tool; Scoops, ice cream; Shakers, cocktail; Sharpeners, knife (non-electric) 12.01.07 - Billiard tables; Cabinets, cabins; Coffee tables; Conference tables; Dressing tables; End tables; Folding tables; Game tables; Nightstands; Picnic tables; Table tennis tables; Table, computer; Tables; Tables, pool 24.07.07 - Prize ribbons; Ribbons, prize Serial Number 75643879 Filing Date February 18, 1999 Current Filing Basis 1B Original Filing Basis 1B Published for Opposition March 21, 2000 Owner (APPLICANT) MOZZETTI, MARIO INDIVIDUAL ITALY Via Conca d’Ore, 329 00141 Rome ITALY (APPLICANT) ALFREDO ALLA SCROFA S.N.C. Mario Mozzetti, Italian citizen, and Elisabetta Salvatori, a Italian citizen PARTNERSHIP ITALY Via della Scrofa 104 00186 Rome ITALY Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record Anthony P. Venturino Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE “THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO” and “SINCE 1914” APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Description of Mark The mark consists in part of the design of a man seated at a table and twirling pasta. The lining in the drawing is a feature of the mark and does not indicate color. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date November 21, 2001 Cl3phact0 ( talk) 09:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Well – out of the
Italo-American pasta pack, Alfredo is
running neck and neck with Lasagna for first prize (a set Gold steak knives). --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
17:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
PS: Notwithstanding those two breath-taking (and unexplained) Baked Ziti spikes. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
17:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Our Carnacina & Buonassisi reference leads to two articles that we might want to add to enwiki: 1) Luigi Carnacina ; 2) Vincenzo Buonassisi (I'll add them to my list, though it might take a while before I get to these). -- Cl3phact0 ( talk) 21:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
It's not clear what Alfredo called his fettuccine on his menu in the 1920s.
It's not even clear when they started being called fettuccine Alfredo in Italian. In English, George Rector (1927) called them "Alfredo's noodles" and Alice Rohe (1927) calls them "Noodles Alfredo", which may have been translations, or just descriptions or invented names.
As for when they came to the US, it is certainly true that Rector and Rohe talked them up starting in 1927. I don't know which of them was more widely read or whether their readers tried to reproduce the dish. The Musso and Frank Grill in Los Angeles has a story on their web site claiming that Fairbanks and Pickford brought Alfredo's recipe to Hollywood and had it cooked at Musso and Frank's, but that the dish was not added to the menu. Which sounds fishy.
What is the earliest confirmed "sighting" of the dish in an American restaurant? -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
References
Fettuccine Alfredo, originated at the famous Alfredo's in Rome, is another specialty ($1.65).
In this edit, the "literally" template was restored in several places when I had replaced it with a simple gloss. The {{literally}} template, as opposed to the {{gloss}} template -- or simply 'single quotes' (cf. MOS:SIMPLEGLOSS) -- is useful when the literal translation and the actual meaning are different. For example, "cappellini lit. 'little hairs' is a kind of fine pasta". It isn't appropriate when the literal and the actual meaning are the same, e.g., "fettuccine al burro ( lit. 'fettuccine with butter')", which should be "fettuccine al burro 'fettuccine with butter'" (with no parentheses). Also, rather than reverting other editors for things like this, it's better to discuss on Talk. -- Macrakis ( talk) 14:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
{{lang-it}}
template for the original Italian. It's been changed and reverted a few times now (lit, gloss, trans and back again), so I'm a bit confused. My personal preference is English in the text (which I find more readable), followed by the original (using whatever template is correct/appropriate). As it is, we're a bit inconsistent throughout – with these, as well as italic usage, quotation marks and capitalisation. Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)@ JackkBrown: Please do not keep changing/reverting other editors without explanation. Please read MOS:SIMPLEGLOSS. It appears that Macrakis has applied this correctly. If you feel that there is a reason that it should be ignored, then let's discuss it here. Honestly, the frustration of doing a round of edits to improve the article, only to return and see that you have "fixed" something that's just been done is rather a bore. Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 14:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
inconsistent throughout – with [glosses] italic usage, quotation marks and capitalisation(though getting better). Maybe an editor with fresh eyes would be so kind as to proofread the whole thing? Perhaps requesting that someone at WP:GOCE with particular expertise in these matters have a go, and/or adding a
{Copyedit}
tag might get someone else interested? To keep going back and forth is a waste of everybody's time.Macrakis's brief explanation above seems quite clear, no? I was willing to park the matter and go with that). JackkBrown had some issue with the punctuation. I also agree with you that the penultimate sentence of the paragraph is clear as written (pasta in bianco with no glosses or other technical flourishes).
on top or on the side) and think it could be left out – but I'm not going to make a fuss about it either. Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 10:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Cl3phact0: this reference you're proposing, since the title says "il piatto più buono del mondo", lit. 'the best dish in the world', in my opinion should be removed; too subjective. JacktheBrown ( talk) 23:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
The two long quotes are now both in {{quotebox}}
format. This made sense for two reasons: 1) Consistency; 2) Mobile device readability. (Also, the first has been slightly trimmed and a portion brought into the text body, which I've just noticed that I failed to note in the edit summary.) Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
20:36, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
The illustration with caption "Ristorante Alfredo menu, 1920s" is copied from the restaurant's web site. I see no evidence that this menu cover is from the 1920s. It appears on the page [2] which is about the "origins" of fettuccine Alfredo, and has several undated photos, most of them clearly from later. Nowhere does it give a date for this menu cover. To my eye, the design of the menu doesn't look like it's from the 1920s, but I'm no specialist on the design of menus in Italy in the 1920s! -- Macrakis ( talk) 16:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Macrakis: Well spotted! I hadn't noticed that Dorrance Publishing Company was a vanity press (duped by the ISBN number). The sub-title of the book in question summarises the central point that countless multitudes have tried to raise on this very Talk page over the years that I didn't think to dig deeper (emphasis is mine):
Pelli, Maurizio (2012). Fettuccine Alfredo, Spaghetti Bolognaise & Caesar Salad. The Triumph of the World's False Italian Cuisine. Pittsburgh, PA: Dorrance. ISBN 9781434917829.
Preserving it here for the record. -- Cl3phact0 ( talk) 17:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
This dish is American-Italian.
I corrected this information twice, but it has been changed back to Italian and world cuisine.
The dish has its roots in Rome but left its birthplace for the United States.
The dish isn't called differently in Italy; it simply doesn't exist there. IlEssere ( talk) 14:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
McDonald's has its own 'Italian' dishes that originated in Italy, and unlike Alfredo, these are served all across Italy. Does that mean McDonald's 'Italian' food is genuinely Italian? While Alfredo sauce has Italian influences and Roman origins, it cannot be considered a traditional Italian dish, just as many McDonald's items can't be genuinely Italian either. IlEssere ( talk) 17:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Reference ideas for Fettuccine Alfredo The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
It is requested that a photograph of Alfredo Di Lelio (preferably with noodles and next to some famous guest of his restaurant) be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
From Italian to read that the fettuccine Alfredo and fettuccine al burro are the same thing is bad. "Fettuccine Alfredo" originated in Italy, but over time the Americans have Americanised it by adding random ingredients (e.g. chicken), ignoring the right combinations of flavours (for people with a food culture, chicken on pasta isn't a respectable combination), as unfortunately they still do very often, and now there is no longer an Italian dish called "fettuccine Alfredo" (except for only two Italian restaurants that still prepare it). In Italy we have a pasta dish called "pasta al burro", but it isn't the same as "fettuccine Alfredo"; they're two different dishes, although quite similar. I propose deleting the "or fettuccine al burro" phrase (in the second line). JacktheBrown ( talk) 22:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
we Italians say it's an objectively wrong combination, we're very, very reliableconstitutes Original research which is forbidden on Wikipedia. Who appointed you the spokesperson for "we Italians"? Hundreds of millions of people worldwide frequently eat chicken and pasta dishes without being poisoned or vomiting, so your objectivity in this matter is in question. All that matters is what reliable sources say, not what anonymous Wikipedia editors say. You know this. Cullen328 ( talk) 02:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Our article reads: in Italy this dish is usually called simply "fettuccine al burro"
, although outside of Rome, "fettuccine" is called "tagliatelle" (Italian wikipedia redirects from the former to the latter). Also, in Italy, the "dish" itself – in so much as there is such a thing beyond the restaurant that makes it – would likely be called "pasta in bianco" or "pasta al burro e parmigiano" (as it would likely be made with pretty much any pasta that's laying about in the pantry, not specifically "fettuccine"). --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
16:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
PS: Please see discussion at
Wikipedia:Help desk too. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
16:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
PPS: The folks who have one of the Roman restaurants that sells this "dish" have opened a branch in
Saudi Arabia. [NB: One has to wonder if the whole story is a clever marketing ploy (cooked up by the nonno, with a wink and a grin, way back in the day).] --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
clever marketing ploycooked up when their great-grandparents were young and gullible, Cl3phact0. While you are at it, examine the pasta sauce section of thousands of American supermarkets. Arguing against a century of reality as reflected by countless reliable sources is not a good strategy. Cullen328 ( talk) 10:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Americans who know anything about cuisines all know.]
@ Cl3phact0:, thanks to your answer. Now,
Cheers, Alex2006 ( talk) 16:04, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
The recipe has never been secret. Our article gives multiple sources, which all agree. As for the story of the golden cutlery, it is very unclear. First of all, both of the current "Alfredo" restaurants apparently have a set. (So which is the real one?) Secondly, I've read that the originals were given to the Italian government for the war effort. (I can't find the reference right now.). Third, as far as I can tell, all the stories about the cutlery originate with the restaurant itself -- do we have any contemporary evidence from the Pickford/Fairbanks side? Fourth, as someone has pointed out, the English on the cutlery is not idiomatic. Overall, I'd say that the original story might be true (or not), but it is highly unlikely that what is currently being displayed is the original pair. -- Macrakis ( talk) 15:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
This is a work in progress. Please be patient. Any help, ehem, thickening-up the "In American culture" section would be appreciated. Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Will be back later and will try to finish-up this process over the weekend. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
12:00, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Macrakis: re: your reverts:
Recipes attributed to Di Lelio include only three ingredientsinto another section for two reasons: 1) to help establish the timeline of the recipe's evolution from the original; 2) because I was going to suggest deleting the entire remaining "Traditional preparation" section (which imparts virtually no information that isn't found elsewhere in the article, and includes an long block quote that's not much different from the earlier quote box quote).
Thoughts? Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 07:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
One of our references ( Barry Popik – which may itself be non-RS) contains a goldmine of possible references. There is also some interesting information about US "Alfredo's" restaurants that may have a direct link to the Roman one(s) in places like Rockefeller Center (1970s and 1980s), as well as some information about "Fettuccine Alfredo" trademarks (apparently abandoned in 2001), etc. These sources may be useful in understanding the events and timelines that led to this dish becoming a ubiquitous staple of Italo-American cuisine.
Adding the references and trademark info here for ease of viewing (less the large blocks of possibly copyvio text, the 2009 WP cut and paste, etc.).:
Southern Italy: Including Rome, Sicily, and Sardinia By Findlay Muirhead, Luigi Vittorio Bertarelli, Consociazione turistica itailana, Touring club italiano Edition: 2 Published by Macmillan and co., ltd. 1925 Pg. 4: ...d’ Alfredo, 104 a, Via della Scrofa, noted for fettuccine al burro;...
So You’re Going to Rome!
by Calara E. Laughlin
Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin Company
Copyright, 1925 and 1928
Pg. 351:
Most travellers would blush to admit they had been in Rome and had not eaten Alfredo’s fettucine al burro, a sort of macaroni with butter, which has netted Alfredo both fame and fortune. Alfredo is at 104 Via della Scrofa. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
6 May 1927, Cumberland (MD) Evening Times, pg. 6, cols. 2-3:
Knighted For His Spaghetti
How Alfredo Mixes Titled Fettuccine
(Photo Caption: “Alfredo di Lelio mixing fettuccine for a patron.”)
By ALICE ROHE
NEA Service Special Correspondent
Rome, May 6.—All the world knows that spaghetti is the reigning idsh in Italy. But what the world does not know perhaps is that the reigning king of Italy has knighted the owner of a little restaurant in Rome as the best spaghetti maker in the world. [NB: Added to article.]
8 June 1929, Modesto (CA) News-Herald, “Rector’s Recipes” by George Rector, pg. 10, col. 1:
I AM going to give a recipe to-day for noodles Alfredo, as prepared by Alfredo himself in his tiny restaurant in Rome, Italy. The act of mixing the butter and cheese through the noodles becomes quite a ceremony, and as busy as Alfredo is with other duties he manages to be at each table when the waiter arrives with the platter of “fettuccine” to be mixed by him.
Noodles Alfredo Cook noodles in boiling salted water for twnety minutes. Drain in colander and hold under cold water to separate, then hold under hot water to reheat. Drain, place noodles on a large, hot platter, sprinkle top with grated Parmesan cheese and add three lumps of butter about the size of a small egg. Now take a large spoon and a fork and lift noodles from platter until butter and cheese are thoroughly blended with the noodles. Alfredo spends at least seven minutes blending the butter and cheese through the noodles. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
3 June 1932, Indiana (PA) Evening Gazette, “How to Eat Spaghetti” by George Rector, pg. 15, col. 4: The best form of pasta is fettuccine, and some of the best fettuccine is published by Alfredo, Cavaliera della Corona d’Italia. Alfredo doesn’t make fettuccine. He doesn’t cook it. He achieves it.
I could go on for hours, painting the picture of Alfredo achieving his fettuccine. The ritual is as solemn and as breath taking as the majestic sight of the sun sinking over mountain tops. Rich calm beauty, and a deep promise of what is to come, plus an indefinable mystery. Yes, I know I’m waqxing poetic, but I stand my ground. Alfredo’s fettuccine is poetry.
10 December 1939, New York (NY) Herald Tribune This Week magazine, pg. 11, col. 3:
Finally there is the recipe for spaghetti (Col. 4—ed.) which Mr. Morro got from the famous Alfredo in Rome. It’s a very simple one but a great favorite among distinguished gourmets visiting Rome. We call it Alfredo’s Spaghetti [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
1 package (8 oz.) spaghetti 1/4 cup butter 1/4 cup grated cheese Cook spaghetti in boiling, salted water according to directions on package. While hot dot generously with butter; turn until butter is melted. Sprinkle with grated cheese. Yield 4-6 servings.
28 February 1951, Uniontown (PA) Evening Standard, “He Meets His First King” by Henry McLemore, pg. 4, col. 2:
ROME—I met my first king last night.
(...)
This jiggling monarch of 70 years of age was Alfredo the First, King of the Noodles, or in Italian, “Il Vero Re Delle Fettuccine.” [NB: Added to article.]
29 March 1956, Moravia (Iowa) Union, pg. 4, col. 6:
Last week we had fettuccine al Alfredo, which was described on some program by a chef just oof the plane from Rome—he even brought his own cheese—and then we had cherries jubilee for dessert. [NB: Added to article 8/5/24.]
26 June 1957, New York (NY) Times,
"Food; Three Restaurants" by June Owen, pg. 48:
Fettuccine Alfredo, originated at the famous Alfredo’s in Rome, is another specialty ($1.65). The flat, noodlelike pasta is served with lots of butter and grated Parmesan cheese. [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
10 April 1964, Oakland (CA) Tribune, Pg. D35, col. 5 ad:
FETTUCCINE ALFREDO…1.50 [NB: Added to article on 25/4/24.]
(Trademark) Word Mark THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO SINCE 1914 Goods and Services (ABANDONED) IC 030. US 046. G & S: Pre-cooked, non-frozen and semi-fresh fettuccine seasoned with sauce; fresh fettuccine; and dried fettuccine Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS Design Search Code 02.09.11 - Humans engaged in other work; Humans, including men, women and children, depicted engaged in other work 05.15.02 - Laurel leaves or branches (borders or frames); Wreaths 08.13.01 - Macaroni; Noodles; Pasta; Spaghetti 11.01.25 - Brushes, basting; Chopsticks; Churns, butter (manual); Cups, measuring; Fruit juices, non-electric; Garlic presses (non-electric); Graters, cheese; Holders, kitchen utensil; Ice cube trays; Juicers, non-electric; Ladles (soup); Measuring cups; Napkin holders; Other non-electric kitchen utensils, utensil holders; Pasta makers, non-electric; Potato peelers; Racks, kitchen tool; Scoops, ice cream; Shakers, cocktail; Sharpeners, knife (non-electric) 12.01.07 - Billiard tables; Cabinets, cabins; Coffee tables; Conference tables; Dressing tables; End tables; Folding tables; Game tables; Nightstands; Picnic tables; Table tennis tables; Table, computer; Tables; Tables, pool 24.07.07 - Prize ribbons; Ribbons, prize Serial Number 75643879 Filing Date February 18, 1999 Current Filing Basis 1B Original Filing Basis 1B Published for Opposition March 21, 2000 Owner (APPLICANT) MOZZETTI, MARIO INDIVIDUAL ITALY Via Conca d’Ore, 329 00141 Rome ITALY (APPLICANT) ALFREDO ALLA SCROFA S.N.C. Mario Mozzetti, Italian citizen, and Elisabetta Salvatori, a Italian citizen PARTNERSHIP ITALY Via della Scrofa 104 00186 Rome ITALY Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record Anthony P. Venturino Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE “THE ORIGINAL FETTUCCINE ALFREDO” and “SINCE 1914” APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN Description of Mark The mark consists in part of the design of a man seated at a table and twirling pasta. The lining in the drawing is a feature of the mark and does not indicate color. Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator DEAD Abandonment Date November 21, 2001 Cl3phact0 ( talk) 09:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Well – out of the
Italo-American pasta pack, Alfredo is
running neck and neck with Lasagna for first prize (a set Gold steak knives). --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
17:38, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
PS: Notwithstanding those two breath-taking (and unexplained) Baked Ziti spikes. --
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
17:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Our Carnacina & Buonassisi reference leads to two articles that we might want to add to enwiki: 1) Luigi Carnacina ; 2) Vincenzo Buonassisi (I'll add them to my list, though it might take a while before I get to these). -- Cl3phact0 ( talk) 21:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
It's not clear what Alfredo called his fettuccine on his menu in the 1920s.
It's not even clear when they started being called fettuccine Alfredo in Italian. In English, George Rector (1927) called them "Alfredo's noodles" and Alice Rohe (1927) calls them "Noodles Alfredo", which may have been translations, or just descriptions or invented names.
As for when they came to the US, it is certainly true that Rector and Rohe talked them up starting in 1927. I don't know which of them was more widely read or whether their readers tried to reproduce the dish. The Musso and Frank Grill in Los Angeles has a story on their web site claiming that Fairbanks and Pickford brought Alfredo's recipe to Hollywood and had it cooked at Musso and Frank's, but that the dish was not added to the menu. Which sounds fishy.
What is the earliest confirmed "sighting" of the dish in an American restaurant? -- Macrakis ( talk) 22:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
References
Fettuccine Alfredo, originated at the famous Alfredo's in Rome, is another specialty ($1.65).
In this edit, the "literally" template was restored in several places when I had replaced it with a simple gloss. The {{literally}} template, as opposed to the {{gloss}} template -- or simply 'single quotes' (cf. MOS:SIMPLEGLOSS) -- is useful when the literal translation and the actual meaning are different. For example, "cappellini lit. 'little hairs' is a kind of fine pasta". It isn't appropriate when the literal and the actual meaning are the same, e.g., "fettuccine al burro ( lit. 'fettuccine with butter')", which should be "fettuccine al burro 'fettuccine with butter'" (with no parentheses). Also, rather than reverting other editors for things like this, it's better to discuss on Talk. -- Macrakis ( talk) 14:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
{{lang-it}}
template for the original Italian. It's been changed and reverted a few times now (lit, gloss, trans and back again), so I'm a bit confused. My personal preference is English in the text (which I find more readable), followed by the original (using whatever template is correct/appropriate). As it is, we're a bit inconsistent throughout – with these, as well as italic usage, quotation marks and capitalisation. Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
09:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)@ JackkBrown: Please do not keep changing/reverting other editors without explanation. Please read MOS:SIMPLEGLOSS. It appears that Macrakis has applied this correctly. If you feel that there is a reason that it should be ignored, then let's discuss it here. Honestly, the frustration of doing a round of edits to improve the article, only to return and see that you have "fixed" something that's just been done is rather a bore. Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 14:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
inconsistent throughout – with [glosses] italic usage, quotation marks and capitalisation(though getting better). Maybe an editor with fresh eyes would be so kind as to proofread the whole thing? Perhaps requesting that someone at WP:GOCE with particular expertise in these matters have a go, and/or adding a
{Copyedit}
tag might get someone else interested? To keep going back and forth is a waste of everybody's time.Macrakis's brief explanation above seems quite clear, no? I was willing to park the matter and go with that). JackkBrown had some issue with the punctuation. I also agree with you that the penultimate sentence of the paragraph is clear as written (pasta in bianco with no glosses or other technical flourishes).
on top or on the side) and think it could be left out – but I'm not going to make a fuss about it either. Cheers, Cl3phact0 ( talk) 10:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Cl3phact0: this reference you're proposing, since the title says "il piatto più buono del mondo", lit. 'the best dish in the world', in my opinion should be removed; too subjective. JacktheBrown ( talk) 23:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
The two long quotes are now both in {{quotebox}}
format. This made sense for two reasons: 1) Consistency; 2) Mobile device readability. (Also, the first has been slightly trimmed and a portion brought into the text body, which I've just noticed that I failed to note in the edit summary.) Cheers,
Cl3phact0 (
talk)
20:36, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
The illustration with caption "Ristorante Alfredo menu, 1920s" is copied from the restaurant's web site. I see no evidence that this menu cover is from the 1920s. It appears on the page [2] which is about the "origins" of fettuccine Alfredo, and has several undated photos, most of them clearly from later. Nowhere does it give a date for this menu cover. To my eye, the design of the menu doesn't look like it's from the 1920s, but I'm no specialist on the design of menus in Italy in the 1920s! -- Macrakis ( talk) 16:17, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Macrakis: Well spotted! I hadn't noticed that Dorrance Publishing Company was a vanity press (duped by the ISBN number). The sub-title of the book in question summarises the central point that countless multitudes have tried to raise on this very Talk page over the years that I didn't think to dig deeper (emphasis is mine):
Pelli, Maurizio (2012). Fettuccine Alfredo, Spaghetti Bolognaise & Caesar Salad. The Triumph of the World's False Italian Cuisine. Pittsburgh, PA: Dorrance. ISBN 9781434917829.
Preserving it here for the record. -- Cl3phact0 ( talk) 17:09, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
This dish is American-Italian.
I corrected this information twice, but it has been changed back to Italian and world cuisine.
The dish has its roots in Rome but left its birthplace for the United States.
The dish isn't called differently in Italy; it simply doesn't exist there. IlEssere ( talk) 14:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
McDonald's has its own 'Italian' dishes that originated in Italy, and unlike Alfredo, these are served all across Italy. Does that mean McDonald's 'Italian' food is genuinely Italian? While Alfredo sauce has Italian influences and Roman origins, it cannot be considered a traditional Italian dish, just as many McDonald's items can't be genuinely Italian either. IlEssere ( talk) 17:39, 18 May 2024 (UTC)