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Rather than reverting this article as well, I will explain what I find wrong with it and put the POV tag while the discussion is ongoing.
I am from Banjaluka and yes ethnic cleansing was very much present. Everyone who was not a serb lost their job. The Serb police used to set up checkpoints all over the city and target those who could not show ID cards proving that they are Serbs. Other ethnic groups were systematically beaten and abused in the Castel compund.
The first bombing of the mosque was carried out by Serb radical nationalists at the time supported by the authorities of Republika Srpska
Alternate:
The first bombing of the mosque was carried out by Serb extreme nationalists at the time believed to be supported by the authorities of Republika Srpska
OK? -- Dado 16:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Relative to the destruction of Ferhadija (and 12 other mosques in Banja Luka)
The Law of the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina on the Protection and Utilisation of Cultural-Historic and Natural Heritage:
Under the Law on Protection and Utilisation of Cultural-Historic and Natural Heritage (Official Gazette of SRBiH, Nos. 20/85 and 12/87) property within the meaning of this law shall enjoy special protection and shall be used on conditions and in a manner prescribed by law (Article 6). Such protection involves, inter alia, preventing destruction of the property, prohibiting every activity which would lead directly or indirectly to changing it, and conserving and renovating protected property (Article 11).
Just to remind that this law was in force at the time of destruction -- Dado 03:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Nikola 11:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Some 4,000 Serb rioters beat and stoned a group of three hundred Bosniaks, participants of the ceremony comemorating the laying of the cornerstone for the reconstruction. -- Dado 15:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Alternate: Some 4,000 Serb rioters stoned a group of three hundred Bosniaks, participants of the ceremony comemorating the laying of the cornerstone for the reconstruction, at least eight of whom were taken to the Banja Luka hospital for medical treatment.
OK? -- Dado 16:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
The tag is coming off-- Dado 22:26, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I am stopping any discussion while the POV tag is not in the article. Nikola 09:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The discussion is finished. You are wrong. You have not presented any information that is usefull to support your claims. --
Dado 00:37, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I won't while the tag is not in the article. Nikola 10:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
ICTY is presented as if it should be trusted without any reserve. Nikola 06:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadijy Mosque was not and is not on the world heritage list of UNESCO, as can be easily checked on [whc.unesco.org] . This does not mean it doesn't deserve too - on the contrary. Currently, the only Bosnian site on the world heritage list is Mostar. Luis rib 12:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
You can also check on List of World Heritage Sites in Europe. Luis rib 12:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadija is not but it was on the UNESCO list. Just like Old Bridge was before, than lost the status and now it is again. In 1969 UNESCO financed the reconstruction of Ferhadija mosque after it was severly damaged in the earthquake. I have provided two links on this --
Dado 14:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I have been following the World Heritage List for years and am certain it was never inscribed (as can be found out by looking in the archived documents at whc.unesco.org.) In 1969, the Convention for the World Heritage List was not yet in place, so it cannot have been included on the List at that point. It may join the List in the future, and probably deserves to, but for the time being it is not on the List and it has not been on the list since the List was started. Therefore, I'm reverting it back.
Luis rib 18:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I am begining to get annoyed here. There are literary hundreds of source all pointing to the same fact that the mosque was listed under UNESCO before the war. Here are few:
Have you thought that in 1993 when the mosque was destroyed the website that you are pointing to did not exist either. The point that is currently not on the list prooves nothing about it not being on the list before. Please present proofs for your claims. I don't have a document to prove it to you but I do have other sources that claim it which makes this statement at least widely acceptable.-- Dado 19:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Dado, sorry but you're wrong. Journalists often claim that some monument is on the worldHeritage List even though it is not true. The fact is that Ferhadija Mosque was never inscribed on the list. Maybe the government of Yugoslavia was considering it for inclusion in the list - that is quite possible. Also, the mosque would certainly deserve to be on the list. However, it wasn't. You must notice that the World Heritage List is an ongoing process, which increases every year. Therefore, there are still a lot of monuments of universal importance which are not yet inscribed on it. You can check on [5] all the official documents of the World Heritage Comittee (the UNESCO body that compiles the world heritage list) from 1972 until 2006 and you will see that Ferhadija Mosque was never inscribed and never deleted from the list either (BTW: no monument was ever deleted from the list yet). So I'm sorry but I'll have to change it back. It's not because lots of journalists make a mistake that this mistake should be repeated on wikipedia. Luis rib 18:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
OK I found another one [6]. Although this one is in Bosnian it also interestingly points out to what category the mosque was under UNESCO (Ferhadija and Arnaudija being 0 category, few others being categories 1 and 2). How is it possible that absolutely every website that you search on Ferhadija and UNESCO points to the fact that it was listed. This includes newspaper articles, but also some academic institutions and persons intimatelly involved with the Ferhadija such as its Imams etc. Actually what I have found is that most are stating that it was protected by UNESCO if that makes it any different. I am sorry but your reasearch seams to be an original reasearch. There are so many other sources who prove you otherwise and even if you would somehow be right, which you still have not quite proven, it is not considered a mainstream opinion, especially since you cannot possibly rebut all of these claims (or at least you have not done it so far). Unless you bring some other evidence to bear I would ask you kindly to return the previous version of the article. -- Dado 19:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadija is not on the list because it is currently not listed on the list and the website is not showing it. My point is that the Ferhadija was either listed or protected by UNESCO and I have provided at least 6 sources to proove it. Would you please open your mind just for a little bit and see what I and hundreds of others are saying. --
Dado 01:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that probably Ferhadija was protected by UNESCO under some other program than the World Heritage List. After all, the UNESCO has lots of different programs. You also said that the UNESCO had provided assistance after an earthquake. I don't mind then if you mention UNESCO, but don't say it is or was on the Wolrd Heritage List because it was not. Luis rib 11:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that is a fair compromise given the lack of more detailed information on the subject. I have made a correction on the article. Please see if that is acceptable. Thanks -- Dado 18:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm ok with that wording. Cheers. Luis rib 18:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone provide proof (or a link) to support the articles claim that all of the old Mosques in the city have been rebuilt and also what the status is of Mosque reconstruction is in the Serb republic. How many Mosques have been rebuilt there? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.48.153.25 ( talk) 09:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
I have made a start on editing the article’s minor errors of grammar, syntax and flow. I hope this is acceptable to the other editors who have already done such a good job here. Although I have changed the order of some of the information (trying to lead from the general to the particular), I have not removed any so far as I am aware. I have added some details about the attack on the cornerstone ceremony. I have also revised the numbers of aggressors and victims in this attack, in line with those in the existing cited sources. I’m not sure where the article’s original figure of 4,000 Serbs came from. Have I overlooked a reference? If so I apologize and ask that it be restored. Anyway this change may well be temporary if someone can find other equally (or more) reliable souce(s).
If the established editors here are unhappy with what I've done, please feel free to revert.
I think the article could use quite a few more cites. Writegeist ( talk) 17:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
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This is the
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Ferhat Pasha Mosque (Banja Luka) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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Rather than reverting this article as well, I will explain what I find wrong with it and put the POV tag while the discussion is ongoing.
I am from Banjaluka and yes ethnic cleansing was very much present. Everyone who was not a serb lost their job. The Serb police used to set up checkpoints all over the city and target those who could not show ID cards proving that they are Serbs. Other ethnic groups were systematically beaten and abused in the Castel compund.
The first bombing of the mosque was carried out by Serb radical nationalists at the time supported by the authorities of Republika Srpska
Alternate:
The first bombing of the mosque was carried out by Serb extreme nationalists at the time believed to be supported by the authorities of Republika Srpska
OK? -- Dado 16:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Relative to the destruction of Ferhadija (and 12 other mosques in Banja Luka)
The Law of the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina on the Protection and Utilisation of Cultural-Historic and Natural Heritage:
Under the Law on Protection and Utilisation of Cultural-Historic and Natural Heritage (Official Gazette of SRBiH, Nos. 20/85 and 12/87) property within the meaning of this law shall enjoy special protection and shall be used on conditions and in a manner prescribed by law (Article 6). Such protection involves, inter alia, preventing destruction of the property, prohibiting every activity which would lead directly or indirectly to changing it, and conserving and renovating protected property (Article 11).
Just to remind that this law was in force at the time of destruction -- Dado 03:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Nikola 11:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Some 4,000 Serb rioters beat and stoned a group of three hundred Bosniaks, participants of the ceremony comemorating the laying of the cornerstone for the reconstruction. -- Dado 15:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Alternate: Some 4,000 Serb rioters stoned a group of three hundred Bosniaks, participants of the ceremony comemorating the laying of the cornerstone for the reconstruction, at least eight of whom were taken to the Banja Luka hospital for medical treatment.
OK? -- Dado 16:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
The tag is coming off-- Dado 22:26, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I am stopping any discussion while the POV tag is not in the article. Nikola 09:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The discussion is finished. You are wrong. You have not presented any information that is usefull to support your claims. --
Dado 00:37, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I won't while the tag is not in the article. Nikola 10:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
ICTY is presented as if it should be trusted without any reserve. Nikola 06:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadijy Mosque was not and is not on the world heritage list of UNESCO, as can be easily checked on [whc.unesco.org] . This does not mean it doesn't deserve too - on the contrary. Currently, the only Bosnian site on the world heritage list is Mostar. Luis rib 12:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
You can also check on List of World Heritage Sites in Europe. Luis rib 12:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadija is not but it was on the UNESCO list. Just like Old Bridge was before, than lost the status and now it is again. In 1969 UNESCO financed the reconstruction of Ferhadija mosque after it was severly damaged in the earthquake. I have provided two links on this --
Dado 14:48, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I have been following the World Heritage List for years and am certain it was never inscribed (as can be found out by looking in the archived documents at whc.unesco.org.) In 1969, the Convention for the World Heritage List was not yet in place, so it cannot have been included on the List at that point. It may join the List in the future, and probably deserves to, but for the time being it is not on the List and it has not been on the list since the List was started. Therefore, I'm reverting it back.
Luis rib 18:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I am begining to get annoyed here. There are literary hundreds of source all pointing to the same fact that the mosque was listed under UNESCO before the war. Here are few:
Have you thought that in 1993 when the mosque was destroyed the website that you are pointing to did not exist either. The point that is currently not on the list prooves nothing about it not being on the list before. Please present proofs for your claims. I don't have a document to prove it to you but I do have other sources that claim it which makes this statement at least widely acceptable.-- Dado 19:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Dado, sorry but you're wrong. Journalists often claim that some monument is on the worldHeritage List even though it is not true. The fact is that Ferhadija Mosque was never inscribed on the list. Maybe the government of Yugoslavia was considering it for inclusion in the list - that is quite possible. Also, the mosque would certainly deserve to be on the list. However, it wasn't. You must notice that the World Heritage List is an ongoing process, which increases every year. Therefore, there are still a lot of monuments of universal importance which are not yet inscribed on it. You can check on [5] all the official documents of the World Heritage Comittee (the UNESCO body that compiles the world heritage list) from 1972 until 2006 and you will see that Ferhadija Mosque was never inscribed and never deleted from the list either (BTW: no monument was ever deleted from the list yet). So I'm sorry but I'll have to change it back. It's not because lots of journalists make a mistake that this mistake should be repeated on wikipedia. Luis rib 18:23, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
OK I found another one [6]. Although this one is in Bosnian it also interestingly points out to what category the mosque was under UNESCO (Ferhadija and Arnaudija being 0 category, few others being categories 1 and 2). How is it possible that absolutely every website that you search on Ferhadija and UNESCO points to the fact that it was listed. This includes newspaper articles, but also some academic institutions and persons intimatelly involved with the Ferhadija such as its Imams etc. Actually what I have found is that most are stating that it was protected by UNESCO if that makes it any different. I am sorry but your reasearch seams to be an original reasearch. There are so many other sources who prove you otherwise and even if you would somehow be right, which you still have not quite proven, it is not considered a mainstream opinion, especially since you cannot possibly rebut all of these claims (or at least you have not done it so far). Unless you bring some other evidence to bear I would ask you kindly to return the previous version of the article. -- Dado 19:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Ferhadija is not on the list because it is currently not listed on the list and the website is not showing it. My point is that the Ferhadija was either listed or protected by UNESCO and I have provided at least 6 sources to proove it. Would you please open your mind just for a little bit and see what I and hundreds of others are saying. --
Dado 01:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that probably Ferhadija was protected by UNESCO under some other program than the World Heritage List. After all, the UNESCO has lots of different programs. You also said that the UNESCO had provided assistance after an earthquake. I don't mind then if you mention UNESCO, but don't say it is or was on the Wolrd Heritage List because it was not. Luis rib 11:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that is a fair compromise given the lack of more detailed information on the subject. I have made a correction on the article. Please see if that is acceptable. Thanks -- Dado 18:06, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm ok with that wording. Cheers. Luis rib 18:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone provide proof (or a link) to support the articles claim that all of the old Mosques in the city have been rebuilt and also what the status is of Mosque reconstruction is in the Serb republic. How many Mosques have been rebuilt there? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.48.153.25 ( talk) 09:07, 13 March 2007 (UTC).
I have made a start on editing the article’s minor errors of grammar, syntax and flow. I hope this is acceptable to the other editors who have already done such a good job here. Although I have changed the order of some of the information (trying to lead from the general to the particular), I have not removed any so far as I am aware. I have added some details about the attack on the cornerstone ceremony. I have also revised the numbers of aggressors and victims in this attack, in line with those in the existing cited sources. I’m not sure where the article’s original figure of 4,000 Serbs came from. Have I overlooked a reference? If so I apologize and ask that it be restored. Anyway this change may well be temporary if someone can find other equally (or more) reliable souce(s).
If the established editors here are unhappy with what I've done, please feel free to revert.
I think the article could use quite a few more cites. Writegeist ( talk) 17:52, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
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