This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ferdinand Magellan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
Ferdinand Magellan is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 31, 2004. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Indigenous people: Juan Cermeño, Francisco (slave), Manuel, interested in the value of the currency and the price of pepper. and the price of pepper, so the three are forbidden to leave Spain.
Island of Santiago (Cape Verde) 9th July 1522, 12 men were retained, on the 14th Elcano set sail.
List of detainees:
They returned weeks later to Seville via Lisbon.
Previously there was another group of 5 crew members from the Nao Trinidad, prisoners of the Portuguese at El Maluco. They returned in 1525-26 in 1525-26:
Berguen died shortly after they all arrived at the Lisbon prison of Minoeiro. of Minoeiro.
This is the list of the survivors who returned to Sanlúcar after their round-the-world trip:
Fernando de Magallanes - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre Jcollmart ( talk) 18:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
The first who circumnavigated the world was Mangelan's helper (slave?) from the Moluccas.
Sources seem to conflict on Magellan's birth place, with this page currently stating Sabrosa, but the Portuguese Wikipedia saying Ponte da Barca or Porto. Is there a consensus on either? HapHaxion ( talk / contribs) 14:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For the Secondary sources of the Further reading section, someone forgot to put a refend thing. 2600:8800:590E:BB00:E860:2D74:94F1:B45B ( talk) 01:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Magellan's death at the Battle of Mactan is mentioned five times in the article: twice in the lead (2nd and 4th paragraphs, in the Voyage section (7th paragraph), the Death section, and in the Reputation following circumnavigation section (4th paragraph). The Battle of Mactan is mentioned five of six times (with three of them linked to the article), and details of the battle are given in both the Voyage section and the Death section. I think that is a bit disorganized and can be tightened up. In particular, covering his death twice in the lead is a problem. I may come back to this in a few days and take a stab at cleaning it up. Donald Albury 13:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
After renouncing his Portuguese nationality in 1517, he adopted the Spanish one, yet the article makes no mention of this. Shouldn't this be noted? Alvarocoras10 ( talk) 01:04, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
There was never a king named Charles in Spain. Freiherr ( talk) 21:26, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
Historian Felipe Felipe Fernández-Armesto's new biography of Magellan (Straits: Beyond the Myth of Magellan, 2022) says "No surviving document records Magellan's birth: that is not unusual for the time and place. The assertion that it happened in or about 1480 is a persistent feature of traditions about him, the authors of which copy each other. It seems to have spread in books like red rot: no good evidence supports it. In view of the chronology of the rest of his life, Magellan is unlikely to have been born before the midpoint of the decade." (p. 33) So maybe the date of birth should be changed to c. 1485? There should be a note at least explaining the issue and stating Fernández-Armesto's date. 151.203.80.156 ( talk) 05:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
How did MagAlhães end up rendered as MagEllanus in Latin? Does this surname refer to a town that was already in existence in the antiquity? 195.187.108.130 ( talk) 14:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
In the section "Voyage", the first two sentences are
"The fleet left Spain on 20 September 1519, sailing west across the Atlantic toward South America. In December, they made landfall at Rio de Janeiro, where Magellan ordered the death penalty against two of his crew members who he deemed had a homosexual relationship."
This constitutes a contextless and abrupt transition. Nothing else about the two weeks long stay at present day Rio de Janeiro is mentioned, or their previous arrival, two weeks earlier, at Cabo Santo Agostinho, near present day Recife. The sentence is also factually incorrect. First, Rio did not exist yet, it was founded only in 1565, over 45 years after Magellan's sojourn. Second, it wasn't two members who were executed, it was only one. Third, the sentence implies the punishment of a gay relationship between two consenting adults, when in fact what transpired, according to the source cited, was the rape of a minor. The reference given is "Fernández-Armesto, Felipe (2022). Straits: Beyond the Myth of Magellan. Bloomsbury Publishing." The book in question states, on page 140:
"On October 30, Antonio Salomon, master of the Victoria, was arraigned for sodomy with a cabin boy. He was found guilty, but a stay of execution, granted for an unknown reason, for nearly two months, until he became the expedition's first fatal casualty -- garroted on the shore at Rio de Janeiro."
The wiki on the voyage itself is more explanatory, citing multiple sources. The sentenced should be changed to something along the lines of
"In late November, they made landfall at Cabo Santo Agostinho, near present day Recife. The Tupi natives, having already engaged with Portuguese and French loggers, were familiar with Europeans, and the encounter was cordial. In December, they arrived at Guanabara Bay, the location of present-day Rio de Janeiro. Magellan and the crew stayed onshore for two weeks, replenishing their provisions and peacefully interacting with the locals. Despite the pleasantries, the first fatal casualty of the expedition occurred. Two months earlier, during the Atlantic crossing, a member of the crew, Antonio Salomon, was caught raping a cabin boy. Tried and found guilty, he was garroted two months later on the shore of Guanabara Bay." Wlyra ( talk) 05:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
The box said "First European Pacific Ocean crossing". This implies that there has been other Pacific ocean crossings. As far as we know, that's not the case. There has been speculation of Polynesians landing in South America (see Pre-Columbian transoceanic contact theories), but no definite proof. A better description is first documented crossing of the Pacific. Change made accordingly. Also added known for naming the Pacific. Wladimir Lyra ( talk) 03:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ferdinand Magellan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
Ferdinand Magellan is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 31, 2004. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Indigenous people: Juan Cermeño, Francisco (slave), Manuel, interested in the value of the currency and the price of pepper. and the price of pepper, so the three are forbidden to leave Spain.
Island of Santiago (Cape Verde) 9th July 1522, 12 men were retained, on the 14th Elcano set sail.
List of detainees:
They returned weeks later to Seville via Lisbon.
Previously there was another group of 5 crew members from the Nao Trinidad, prisoners of the Portuguese at El Maluco. They returned in 1525-26 in 1525-26:
Berguen died shortly after they all arrived at the Lisbon prison of Minoeiro. of Minoeiro.
This is the list of the survivors who returned to Sanlúcar after their round-the-world trip:
Fernando de Magallanes - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre Jcollmart ( talk) 18:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
The first who circumnavigated the world was Mangelan's helper (slave?) from the Moluccas.
Sources seem to conflict on Magellan's birth place, with this page currently stating Sabrosa, but the Portuguese Wikipedia saying Ponte da Barca or Porto. Is there a consensus on either? HapHaxion ( talk / contribs) 14:23, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For the Secondary sources of the Further reading section, someone forgot to put a refend thing. 2600:8800:590E:BB00:E860:2D74:94F1:B45B ( talk) 01:58, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Magellan's death at the Battle of Mactan is mentioned five times in the article: twice in the lead (2nd and 4th paragraphs, in the Voyage section (7th paragraph), the Death section, and in the Reputation following circumnavigation section (4th paragraph). The Battle of Mactan is mentioned five of six times (with three of them linked to the article), and details of the battle are given in both the Voyage section and the Death section. I think that is a bit disorganized and can be tightened up. In particular, covering his death twice in the lead is a problem. I may come back to this in a few days and take a stab at cleaning it up. Donald Albury 13:36, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
After renouncing his Portuguese nationality in 1517, he adopted the Spanish one, yet the article makes no mention of this. Shouldn't this be noted? Alvarocoras10 ( talk) 01:04, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
There was never a king named Charles in Spain. Freiherr ( talk) 21:26, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
Historian Felipe Felipe Fernández-Armesto's new biography of Magellan (Straits: Beyond the Myth of Magellan, 2022) says "No surviving document records Magellan's birth: that is not unusual for the time and place. The assertion that it happened in or about 1480 is a persistent feature of traditions about him, the authors of which copy each other. It seems to have spread in books like red rot: no good evidence supports it. In view of the chronology of the rest of his life, Magellan is unlikely to have been born before the midpoint of the decade." (p. 33) So maybe the date of birth should be changed to c. 1485? There should be a note at least explaining the issue and stating Fernández-Armesto's date. 151.203.80.156 ( talk) 05:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
How did MagAlhães end up rendered as MagEllanus in Latin? Does this surname refer to a town that was already in existence in the antiquity? 195.187.108.130 ( talk) 14:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
In the section "Voyage", the first two sentences are
"The fleet left Spain on 20 September 1519, sailing west across the Atlantic toward South America. In December, they made landfall at Rio de Janeiro, where Magellan ordered the death penalty against two of his crew members who he deemed had a homosexual relationship."
This constitutes a contextless and abrupt transition. Nothing else about the two weeks long stay at present day Rio de Janeiro is mentioned, or their previous arrival, two weeks earlier, at Cabo Santo Agostinho, near present day Recife. The sentence is also factually incorrect. First, Rio did not exist yet, it was founded only in 1565, over 45 years after Magellan's sojourn. Second, it wasn't two members who were executed, it was only one. Third, the sentence implies the punishment of a gay relationship between two consenting adults, when in fact what transpired, according to the source cited, was the rape of a minor. The reference given is "Fernández-Armesto, Felipe (2022). Straits: Beyond the Myth of Magellan. Bloomsbury Publishing." The book in question states, on page 140:
"On October 30, Antonio Salomon, master of the Victoria, was arraigned for sodomy with a cabin boy. He was found guilty, but a stay of execution, granted for an unknown reason, for nearly two months, until he became the expedition's first fatal casualty -- garroted on the shore at Rio de Janeiro."
The wiki on the voyage itself is more explanatory, citing multiple sources. The sentenced should be changed to something along the lines of
"In late November, they made landfall at Cabo Santo Agostinho, near present day Recife. The Tupi natives, having already engaged with Portuguese and French loggers, were familiar with Europeans, and the encounter was cordial. In December, they arrived at Guanabara Bay, the location of present-day Rio de Janeiro. Magellan and the crew stayed onshore for two weeks, replenishing their provisions and peacefully interacting with the locals. Despite the pleasantries, the first fatal casualty of the expedition occurred. Two months earlier, during the Atlantic crossing, a member of the crew, Antonio Salomon, was caught raping a cabin boy. Tried and found guilty, he was garroted two months later on the shore of Guanabara Bay." Wlyra ( talk) 05:15, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
The box said "First European Pacific Ocean crossing". This implies that there has been other Pacific ocean crossings. As far as we know, that's not the case. There has been speculation of Polynesians landing in South America (see Pre-Columbian transoceanic contact theories), but no definite proof. A better description is first documented crossing of the Pacific. Change made accordingly. Also added known for naming the Pacific. Wladimir Lyra ( talk) 03:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)