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The information offered by this table should be more clearly explained since it is not completely obvious. I am going to change its position to the see also section, since it only references to Wiki articles. Hydraton31 20:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Any objection to renaming the article to Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti Rossiiskoy Federacij? With proper redirects, of course. This would be more consistent with other articles on Russian government departments, and would also match the pattern used for U.S. agencies. - Joseph 04:36, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)
Err.. the "coup" of 1991? Is that really proper? Graft 21:14, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
This section needs to be expanded on. It's quite vague, and the links are not the least bit helpful.
In the beginning of 2006 the Italian news agency ANSA reported the publication on the FSB website of an offer, open to Russian citizens working as spies for a foreign country, to work as double agents which is false. — Why is it false? As of October 2006, the offer is still up and reads as follows: "Российские граждане, сотрудничающие с иностранными разведками, могут связаться с ФСБ России по телефону доверия с тем, чтобы стать агентами-двойниками. В этом случае денежное вознаграждение, получаемое такими агентами от иностранных спецслужб, будет полностью сохранено, и с ними будут работать сотрудники ФСБ РФ высочайшего класса. При этом будет гарантирована анонимность и конфиденциальность."
Text in Overview seems contradictory. It says first that FSB fights crime and terrorism (which is an official version). Then, it describes Litvinenko's views that FSB promotes the crime and terrorism, instead of fighting them. Maybe it would be better to make two separate parts, for the official and "alternative" views on FSB activities? Biophys 04:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC) Besides, the text about Litvinenko is not the Overview but someting else. Of course the "alternative" view must be present, because it is actually supported by many. Biophys 04:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the Litvinenko thing doesn't even seem like it should have a major paragraph in the "Overview". Perhaps it should be moved to a rumours section of sorts... 74.109.156.190 09:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Note that "Novaya Gazeta" is the most liberal and not the most read Russian newspaper accessible primarily through the web.
Biophys 20:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have made a few changes to make this more understandable for a reader. Naturally, he would ask what is the difference between FSB and KGB or between FSB and FBI.
How about removing all "historic" part of Restructuring and leaving only the current organizational structure of FSB? Biophys 20:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I realize that there are no enought references at the moment. I will provide them later. Biophys 18:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Please know that Stomakhin wasn't procesuted by FSB, but he was prosecuted on the basis of applications of private persons, see the article on Boris Stomakhin. The statement of Union of Councils of fSU Jews is containing false statements and facts which contradict to Mass Media reports. Stomakhin is a leader of extremist organization Revolutionary Contact Association He was sentenced by court for the extremist activities, inciting religious and ethnic hatred, promoting violent change of constitutional regime, calls for violation of terriorial integrity of Russian Federation, defamatory statements(articles 280 and 282 of the Russian Criminal Code). He is not a dissident. Consider the following his statements:
Kill, Kill, Kill! To flood all Russia with blood, to not give a quarter to anyone, to try to make at least one atomic explosion on the territory of Russian Federation -- this is like the program of radical Resistance should be, and Russian's, and Chechen's, and anyone's! Let the Russians, according to their deserts, reap as they has sown. Russians should be killed, and only killed, for there is no one among them who is normal, intelligent, or who can be talked with and for understanding of whom we could rely. Harsh collective responsibility of all Russians should be introduced, of all loyal Russian citizens for the actions of the government elected by them -- for the genocide, executions, ordeals, trade with corpses... From that moment there should be no division of killers on combatant and non-combatant, wilful or forced. http://rko.marsho.net/articl/mashadov.htm
The article 'Death to Russia' by Boris Stomkahin in Google cache Vlad fedorov 17:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
http://www.prima-news.ru/news/news/2006/3/29/35420.html http://www.newsru.com/russia/03oct2006/stomaxin.html http://lenta.ru/articles/2006/11/20/court/ http://www.regnum.ru/news/739771.html http://www.grani.ru/Society/Xenophobia/m.114646.html http://www.svobodanews.ru/articlete.aspx?exactdate=20061128140042880 http://www.russianlife.nl/boris_stomakhin.htm http://arrests.cjes.ru/?id=282 http://rian.ru/defense_safety/investigations/20061005/54549461.html http://rian.ru/society/20061124/55959089.html
Statement by Jewish representative about FSB concerns "FSB refused to investigate the distribution of a neo-Nazi hit list", and not Stomakhin.
You have intentionally wrote false infromation that Stomakhin was prosecuted by FSB Vlad fedorov 18:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following fragments as it is unrelated to FSB. Something probably should go to Russia and the Arab-Israeli conflict and some somewhere else:
It was suggested that Russia helped Saddam Hussein to hide his Weapons of mass destruction before US invasion of Iraq in 2003 [1]
Critics claim that Russian government led by former FSB Director Vladimir Putin is providing modern military technology to the outcast governments and terrorist organizations worldwide. [2] [3] [4] [5] Modern Russian-made anti-tank weapons played significant role in Hezbollah operations against Israel Defense Forces during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict. Former Lt. General Ion Mihai Pacepa said that "Israel has been attacked with Soviet Kalashnikovs and Katyushas, Russian Fajr-1 and Fajr-3 rockets, Russian AT-5 Spandrel antitank missiles and Kornet antitank rockets." [6] Some FSB-affiliated GRU detachments from Chechnya were transfered to Lebanon independently on the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, where they allegedly conducted intelligence missions together with Hezbollah after the conflict. [7] Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir revealed that Russia and Iran are providing weapons and money to the Taliban in 2006, according to his sources in Afganistan government [8]
It is also possible that Russian government promotes the Nuclear program of Iran to use Iran as proxy against the West. [9] Yossef Bodansky and some others even claim that Iran may have already purchased nuclear warheads from Russia [10] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alex Bakharev ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC).
Very interesting material (Russian), Echo of Moscow [2]
Таким событием, с моей точки зрения, стала Коллегия федеральной службы безопасности, которую провел президент В.Путин, и в которой приняли участие все важнейшие чиновники страны. А это глава администрации президента Сергей Собянин, заместитель главы администрации Игорь Сечин, помощник президента Виктор Иванов, глава Контрольного управления Александр Беглов, генеральный прокурор Юрий Чайка, министр внутренних дел Рашид Нургалиев, директор Федеральной службы охраны Евгений Муров, директор СВР - это разведка, Сергей Лебедев, руководитель Госнаркоконтроля Виктор Черкесов. Руководитель Федеральной службы по финансовому мониторингу Виктор Зубков, руководитель Главного управления спецпрограмм президента Александр Царенко, глава Счетной палаты России Сергей Степашин, председатель Верховного суда России Вячеслав Лебедев. Прошу прощения за столь длинное перечисление фамилий, оно просто показывает – не путайте, это было не заседание правительства, это была Коллегия Федеральной службы безопасности. Так вот этот список, конечно, показывает, сколь важное ключевое место в сегодняшней политике России играет наследница КГБ, Федеральная служба безопасности. Кстати, среди приглашенных на заседание этого теневого, или кто-то говорит - второго, первого - кому как больше нравится – правительства России, был приглашен и председатель Комиссии по контролю за деятельностью силовых структур Общественной палаты Анатолий Кучерена. Правда, лишь на телевизионную часть заседания. Потом контролера от кремлевской общественности попросили вон.
Мы знаем, что на этой коллегии ФСБ Путин призвал органы Госбезопасности принять самое деятельное участие в контроле за избирательным процессом. Он сказал – цитирую: «В этом году пройдут очередные выборы в региональные законодательные собрания и Госдуму. Это важнейший демократический механизм формирования государственной власти, власти ответственной, и избранной в результате здоровой политической конкуренции. Важно не только обеспечить законность, - сказал президент, - и правопорядок, но и обезопасить общество от попыток вброса на общественно-политическое поле идеологии экстремизма, национальной и конфессиональной нетерпимости».
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: ...чем ниже уровень политического класса, тем больше там представителей всяких других, боковых ветвей, в том числе, и МВД, и армия, и прочее – то есть, все виды силовых структур уже присутствуют. Но на самой верхушке, политбюро - это буквально 50 на 50 - разведка и контрразведка. Пополам. Но сейчас интересный процесс еще другой - в составы Советов директоров крупнейших компаний с присутствием государства достаточно много сейчас тоже представителей силовиков - этот процесс новые, и пока скрытый от общественного внимания, но мы подробно этим занимаемся, и обнаружили, каким образом туда вмонтируются эти люди.
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: ...всегда профессиональная какая-то группа выделяется по своей функции в обществе - то есть, ментальность, все прочее – это вторично. Это люди - силовики – откуда слово «силовики»? Потому что эти люди с оружием в руках призваны защищать что-то. То есть, это вооруженная группа людей - вот это их объединяет прежде всего. Если смотреть в микроскоп, то конечно - каждый вид оружия, каждый вид спецслужбы, или не спецслужбы, конечно, он различный. Но если смотреть подальше, в телескоп, так сказать, то у них так много общего, что можно их считать одной группой. Конечно, я понимаю все оговорки, которые здесь надо сделать. Почему это одна группа? Еще в советское время она была сконструирована, и слово «силовики» возникло в советское время – ни в одной стране мира почему-то нет такого слова, всегда при переводе на английский, французский, немецкий, приходится пояснить многими словами, что имеется в виду. Почему у нас все они соединены, а там это все-таки разные вещи? Есть причины. У нас была иерархия этих силовых ведомств. И КГБ, а сейчас ФСБ, являлось мозгом, которая управляла другими вооруженными структурами – ну, армией в меньшей степени.
Е.АЛЬБАЦ: но, тем не менее, Третий Главк контролировало и Генштаб и Министерство обороны, и ГРУ.
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: Да, конечно. И тройки были во всех регионах. Тройка - это УКГБ, туда еще входил главный милиционер и прокурор. Вот тройки силовиков, которые определяли на местах очень и очень многие важные вещи. Ментальность разная у них. Но поскольку лидирующие позиции занимает ФСБ, то ментальность ФСБ – она ключевая. И поскольку это организация типа такого закрытого ордена, то она построена вся на том, чтобы буквально зомбировать - может быть даже в хорошем смысле, «зомбировать» такое слово с негативным оттенком – пропитывать людей, которые проходят через эту школу, определенной совершенно идеологией. И эта идеология она главенствующая, это идеология, где патриотизм положен в основу основ. Biophys 17:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Lets reference legitimate sources if possible, even if it contradicts your personal beliefs. "According to Chechen sources" holds no value. Compare this article to the article about CIA, notice any difference?
Clearly FSB is not an intelligence agency but secret police organization. See Chronology of Soviet secret police agencies and List of secret police organizations. Biophys 18:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I can also copy a segment from discussion above:
Are you surprised? CIA is a foreign intelligence agency, FSB is a domestic security agency. Colchicum 15:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Right. But what does it mean: "a domestic security agency"? There is no comparison with CIA. This article says: "FSB is a very large organization that combines functions and powers like those exercised by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Federal Protective Service, the Secret Service, the National Security Agency (NSA), U.S. Customs and Border Protection, United States Coast Guard, and Drug Enforcement Administration. FSB also commands a contingent of Internal Troops, spetsnaz, and an extensive network of civilian informants." Note that CIA is missing here, because SVR suppose to be an equivalent of CIA. Biophys 17:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Since the article in Wikipedia says that secret police term is usually used in totalitarian regimes, that description is an evident POV. Russia is a member of European Convetion on Protection of Human Rights and there is jurisdiction of Human Rights Court in Strasbourg over Russia. Russia is a member of European Council, the statute of which evidently excludes the membership of non-democratic states. Constitution of Russian Federation provides that Russian Federation is a ..democratic, unitarian...state. There are direct, open and equal elections in Russian Federation (unlike in the US which do not have open, direct, free and equal elections), there is a Parlament which has exclusive competention not owned by the President of Russian Federation. Totalitarian regimes do not have such institutes and Russia couldn't be characterized in terms used for totalitarian states. Vlad fedorov 04:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
On the one hand, the sources seem (although I did not read them particularly thouroughly) very comprehensive, the english is terrible. Someone with a clear understanding of a) the issues here, which are contentious and lend themselves to debate, and b) english, the language of this section of wikipedia, and hence, the language in which this article should be written, should clean this joint up.
I agree with this. What is more, why is FSB not "The FSB"? That is how it is commonly referred to in English.
The English language wikipedia has been infiltrated by members of the FSB (some of them being wiki admins now) who forge history files and remove content critical of Putin's Russia. So far these attempts meet stiff resistance by the wiki community.
Biophys 01:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Man you guys need to get a life
Were not the majority of arrests of political criminals in NAZI Germany conducted for the Gestapo by the KRIPO? Especially as the KRIPO was also a much larger agency. AND... the police in the UK and the Commonwealth do conduct security and intelligence operations, see Special Branch. I could also add the SIS which was a branch of the FBI operating in South American during and after WWII. There were many allegations of FBI activities as Hoover was also known to oppose the establishment of the OSS and the CIA as he thought the FBI should be an all encompassing agency. Note that FBI means Federal Bureau of Investigations and is not descriptive of what type of investigations, just as the US Marshals and the US Secret Service were both heavily involved in intelligence activities, esp in America's naive adolescence. Just adding food for thought. The previous was added by Tomtom9041 -- 71.242.127.31 22:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to learn the arguments of those who describe FSB as a secret police and specific links to NPOV sites which describe FSB as a secret police, since it is a Wikipedia (Encyclopedia). Please, go on. Vlad fedorov 08:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Статья 8. Деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности Article 8 Деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности осуществляется по следующим основным направлениям: - контрразведывательная деятельность; - борьба с преступностью. Article 9 Контрразведывательная деятельность - деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности в пределах своих полномочий по выявлению, предупреждению, пресечению разведывательной и иной деятельности специальных служб и организаций иностранных государств, а также отдельных лиц, направленной на нанесение ущерба безопасности Российской Федерации. Biophys, in your opinion, контрразведка, doesn't mean intteligence? Vlad fedorov 20:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Of course, not! This is counter-intelligence (as already written in this article), not intelligence. It also says: "fight with crime". Who fights crime? Police. Next question: is this secret police or not? Obviously, this is not normal police (such as one run by MVD), obviously it operates in secrecy as described in all sources. Biophys 21:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
But a significant portion of this FSB (Russia) article contradicts completely this assessment. Take a look at "Criticism of FSB actions". It is supported by at least fifty valid references.
All of them tell exactly the opposite. They tell that FSB "activities are not transparent to the public, their primary purpose is to maintain the political power of the state rather than uphold the rule of law, and they have often been used as an instrument of political repression", as explained in the secret police article. So, this is already supported by ~50 references Biophys 14:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
May I just cite the respective passage of Law on FSB? It says that anyone has the right to receive explanations and information from FSB in case their rights and freedoms are restricted. Could you cite me analogous passage from the US legislation on the CIA or FBI? I bet you won't, since the United States Code doesn't vest the US citizens even with right to demand explanations from them. It is exactly why the US Congress, itself, has set up the Committee to investigate the activities of CIA on the US soil. Many thanks. http://fsb.gov.ru/under/fsb.html
Статья 6. Соблюдение прав и свобод человека и гражданина в деятельности органов Федеральной службы безопасности
Государство гарантирует соблюдение прав и свобод человека и гражданина при осуществлении органами Федеральной службы безопасности своей деятельности. Не допускается ограничение прав и свобод человека и гражданина, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных федеральными конституционными законами и федеральными законами.
Лицо, полагающее, что органами Федеральной службы безопасности либо их должностными лицами нарушены его права и свободы, вправе обжаловать действия указанных органов и должностных лиц в вышестоящий орган Федеральной службы безопасности, прокуратуру или суд.
Государственные органы, предприятия, учреждения и организации независимо от форм собственности, а также общественные объединения и граждане имеют право в соответствии с законодательством Российской Федерации получать разъяснения и информацию от органов Федеральной службы безопасности в случае ограничения своих прав и свобод.
The functions of FSB are almost exactly parallel to those of the infamous Geheime Staatspolizei, which was undoubtedly a secret police, as witnessed by its very name. Colchicum 18:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Encarta
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569000_15/Russia.html#p202
"In the Soviet era the KGB (Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti; Russian for 'State Security Committee') and its predecessors were large and powerful organizations. The KGB’s role included intelligence work abroad, counterespionage, and the repression of domestic dissent. The KGB also provided the top Soviet leadership with information about public moods and international developments that could not be gained from the USSR’s censored press. KGB officers were members of the Soviet elite and were often very intelligent and well educated. In 1991 public outcry erupted after the agency participated in a failed coup, and President Yeltsin subsequently split the agency into five bodies. The main heirs to the KGB are the FSB (Federal Security Services), which concentrates on domestic affairs, and the SVR (Foreign Intelligence Service), which inherited the KGB’s foreign agents and activities. Although the major successor agencies are still large bodies with pervasive influence, Russians are now far freer to express their opinions and engage in independent political activity than they were under the KGB in the Soviet Union".
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574501/KGB.html "KGB, in full, Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti (State Security Committee), the government agency of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics..."
Definition of secret police by Encarta: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761565081/Secret_Police.html Secret Police, special police force organized by autocratic or totalitarian regimes in defense against their enemies.
Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9384885/Federal-Security-Service
Russian Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti , formerly (1994–95) Federal Counterintelligence Service Russian internal security and counterintelligence service created in 1994 as one of the successor agencies of the Soviet-era KGB. It is responsible for counterintelligence, antiterrorism, and surveillance of the military. The FSB occupies the former headquarters of the KGB on Lubyanka Square in downtown Moscow.
Britannica on secret police: http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378132
Generally clandestine, secret police have operated independently of the civil police. Particularly notorious examples were the Nazi Gestapo, the Russian KGB, and the East German Stasi. Secret-police tactics include arrest, imprisonment, torture, and execution of political enemies and intimidation of potential opposition members.
As we see from this review neither Encarta, nor Britannica call FSB a secret police. I believe that user CPTGbr, is just aspiring to push forcibly his point of view (personal opinion) without citing any sources here. For that he undertook some defamatory and personal attack moves whichj could be seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk%3ABiophys&diff=114715622&oldid=114560367 and here http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk%3AAlex_Bakharev&diff=114896675&oldid=114890366. Vlad fedorov 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Just as a tie in to the above last edit and to help clarify this to us Westerners, if the FSB is 'one of' the descendants of the old KGB we all came to know and love would it be possible for someone in the know to link some of it's other descendant agencies to this article? Or, alternatively, put a more dedicated section into the KGB article explaining what old KGB duties went to what new agencies? IE what agency handles internal security to internal threats?
A lot of ex-KGB agents still work at the FSB. That is why many people think the FSB use some KGB tactics/ descended from the KGB. I don't quiet understand the second half of your statement though. CPTGbr 03:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made an while the article was protected. Please complain to WP:AN/I if you think I have abused my admin rights but otherwise the leading phrase does not make sense. Alex Bakharev 05:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
This is answer to ellol question Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Internet_brigades_(2nd_nomination).
You should probably read articles about NKVD, KGB, etc. The purpose of these organizations was never to protect the country from terrorists or outside enemies. Their actual goal was to control the population of their own country. Ideology and propaganda are even more important than repressions to achieve this goal. Hence, they always did disinformation and other "active measures" rather than intelligence (they are doing a lot of "intelligence" within the country using an army of informers). The compete dissolution of FSB (except Border guards) would make the country only much safer. But that will never happen because they are the government of Russia. Biophys 20:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, you should not read NKVD and KGB articles. These articles actually do not explain much, because the strategy of deception is really working (Congratulations, comrades!). I mean: just take a look at certain History textbooks in the US. It seems they were written in FSB. I do not accuse anyone personally of course. Biophys 20:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
See interesting reference: A Rogue Intelligence State? Why Europe and America Cannot Ignore Russia. By Reuel Marc Gerecht. He said: "The FSB and SVR are boldly but sloppily using nuclear hit teams abroad. The "wet jobs" of the former Soviet Union seem pristine in comparison. Western security and intelligence services should start harassing FSB and SVR personnel wherever possible. It should be routine to boot these officers from foreign postings. We should disrupt their lives and the lives of their families whenever and wherever possible. American and European internal-security and foreign-intelligence services should track the finances of former and active-duty FSB and SVR officers. If it is possible to cause them pain--for example, by regularly blocking the accounts of officers even tangentially connected to anti-dissident or criminal activity in Europe or Russia--we should do so." Is that a good idea? Biophys 02:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the "critisizim" section is too POV, it treats mere allegations as fact and has too many personal quotes (sound familiar?) QZXA2 00:45, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I have moved the "critisicim" section here, as it seems too POV. Perhps we could fix it up and re add it. QZXA2 22:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Do we need the For other uses, see FSB part at the top? FSB is the disambiguation page, not something that redirects here, so articles won't link to it by mistake, and readers won't wander into it by mistake. I would have removed the tag myself, but wanted to query it as it's been there for nearly a year (since this edit: [3]). Anakin 17:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Muffkino 07:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Talk:FSB directs here, but FSB does not redirect to Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation. I'm not sure if this is correct. ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 13:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC))
QZXA2, it is not enough to tell that "30 refernces I deleted are hardly reliable". You must explain why each specific reference you deleted does not satisfy WP:SOURCE. Note that I have organized this article to be pretty much NPOV. I made "Pro" ("Officially stated activities") section followed by "Contra" ("criticizm") section. This is standard practice to achive NPOV in many articles. If you think article was not balanced, you can extend "pro" section, rather than deleting everything you do not like, which is the entire "criticism" section. Do you agree? If you do not, I can combine "pro" and "contra" sections together, while keeping all relevant information and references, of course. Biophys 20:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Biophys, having "official activities" just doesn't work as a balancing tool. Even Nazi death squads had "official" stated activities. Most people will only see the Official activities section as "in theory" and "critisizm" as "in reality". And it is simply not right to add every single negative statement about the FSB. If there were other people involved with this article Im sure they would agree that this article in grossly unbalanced. And I am certain that Wikipedia admimins. would also agree. You also cannot word these unproven statements as solid fact, and it is not in violation of any wikipolicies to call a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory. QZXA2 23:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
You want my answer? No. I want a balanced version. QZXA2 00:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Why don't we just re word the "critisiscm" section while keeping all of the sources? (and of course adding a note thatthere is no solid proof that those allegations are true) QZXA2 01:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Will you chaps please learn to spell? -CRITICISM. 199.172.206.47 ( talk) 22:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I have added Aleksandr Bortnikov as new head of FSB. He was just apointed by President Medvedev. -- SergeiXXX ( talk) 07:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
This is Federal agency, not a law enforcement agency. Therefore, the template should be like in article United States Secret Service. Biophys ( talk) 05:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Colchicum, why are you reverting my well balanced version? I left the vast majority of sources, I only deleted the most absurd links. I dont get what is wrong with re-wording such a biased article. QZXA2 18:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The 30 refernces I deleted are hardly "reliable". Besides, I mostly just re-worded most of the statements so they would be less POV. You said yourself that I could do so. Why don't you just re-add the sources I deleted rather than the revert my whole edit? QZXA2 22:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
This page is biased tripe, even by the often low standards of wikipedia. It should be extensively balanced or deleted entirely. Kharaku ( talk) 14:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The vast majority of the sources in the article cite biased publications and individuals. Just because some old babushka said she heard the FSB is the KGB does not make it sourced, nor does a publication frequently involved in disputes with the FSB stand as a reliable information source about them. Frankly you could use the same techniques and suggest there is serious belief the US government is run by lizard men and it would be no less absurd. How do I get the neutrality is disputed heading onto this page? Kharaku ( talk) 14:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
90% of this article is raw and stupid propaganda. It is like an article of CIA or FBI written using Soviet propaganda publications - about "damn capitalistic bastards hardly oppressing the people of the United States". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.179.106.178 ( talk) 19:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
A general pledge: Wikipedia super-users, moderators and experts: Please do not look for "neutrality" when it comes to power and its possible abuse. Instead only look for honesty, witnesses, sources and truth. Thanks, Myriam Thyes, Dusseldorf. —Preceding undated comment added 23:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC).
It is stated that FSB is an acronym, but if you look at the definition of acronym, you find that this kind of abbreviation is voiced as a word, such as NASA. If this is correct, then what type of sound does pronouncing FSB make "FISB" or "FOSB"? Or should it just be an abbreviation "F"-"S"-"B"?
It's "Eff es bh" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.2.106 ( talk) 18:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
A book mentioned a military-style FSB anti-corruption group called Cobra or Kobra. Does anybody know what this is? (No, not the bad guys from G.I. Joe!) Thanks. 118.165.204.171 ( talk) 01:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Since we use the name KGB for the KGB article, why must we use a semi-descriptive name for FSB (Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation), instead of FSB? Aris Katsaris 05:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Most English-language media use FSB, see CNN for instance. The fact that FSB is not unique is handled in the Wikipedia standard way, by appending a qualification in parentheses: FSB (Russia). I think Mikkalai is mistaken about a policy of using official names for article titles, in fact the policy is to use the most common names: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Thus we have Uruguay, not "Oriental Republic of Uruguay", and United Kingdom, not "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Of course the full official name should often be mentioned in the first sentence or paragraph of the article. -- Curps 01:41, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Although I am new to the topic (FSB), it took me only moments via Google to discover that the middle word when translated means 'Force' (or enforce). A better translation of the Russian words for F.S.B. could be provided in the initial paragraph(s) of the Article. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 13:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC) PS: Am I wrong, or is it more accurately: "Federal Enforcement Bureau". .?.
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
The information offered by this table should be more clearly explained since it is not completely obvious. I am going to change its position to the see also section, since it only references to Wiki articles. Hydraton31 20:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Any objection to renaming the article to Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti Rossiiskoy Federacij? With proper redirects, of course. This would be more consistent with other articles on Russian government departments, and would also match the pattern used for U.S. agencies. - Joseph 04:36, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)
Err.. the "coup" of 1991? Is that really proper? Graft 21:14, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
This section needs to be expanded on. It's quite vague, and the links are not the least bit helpful.
In the beginning of 2006 the Italian news agency ANSA reported the publication on the FSB website of an offer, open to Russian citizens working as spies for a foreign country, to work as double agents which is false. — Why is it false? As of October 2006, the offer is still up and reads as follows: "Российские граждане, сотрудничающие с иностранными разведками, могут связаться с ФСБ России по телефону доверия с тем, чтобы стать агентами-двойниками. В этом случае денежное вознаграждение, получаемое такими агентами от иностранных спецслужб, будет полностью сохранено, и с ними будут работать сотрудники ФСБ РФ высочайшего класса. При этом будет гарантирована анонимность и конфиденциальность."
Text in Overview seems contradictory. It says first that FSB fights crime and terrorism (which is an official version). Then, it describes Litvinenko's views that FSB promotes the crime and terrorism, instead of fighting them. Maybe it would be better to make two separate parts, for the official and "alternative" views on FSB activities? Biophys 04:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC) Besides, the text about Litvinenko is not the Overview but someting else. Of course the "alternative" view must be present, because it is actually supported by many. Biophys 04:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the Litvinenko thing doesn't even seem like it should have a major paragraph in the "Overview". Perhaps it should be moved to a rumours section of sorts... 74.109.156.190 09:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Note that "Novaya Gazeta" is the most liberal and not the most read Russian newspaper accessible primarily through the web.
Biophys 20:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have made a few changes to make this more understandable for a reader. Naturally, he would ask what is the difference between FSB and KGB or between FSB and FBI.
How about removing all "historic" part of Restructuring and leaving only the current organizational structure of FSB? Biophys 20:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I realize that there are no enought references at the moment. I will provide them later. Biophys 18:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Please know that Stomakhin wasn't procesuted by FSB, but he was prosecuted on the basis of applications of private persons, see the article on Boris Stomakhin. The statement of Union of Councils of fSU Jews is containing false statements and facts which contradict to Mass Media reports. Stomakhin is a leader of extremist organization Revolutionary Contact Association He was sentenced by court for the extremist activities, inciting religious and ethnic hatred, promoting violent change of constitutional regime, calls for violation of terriorial integrity of Russian Federation, defamatory statements(articles 280 and 282 of the Russian Criminal Code). He is not a dissident. Consider the following his statements:
Kill, Kill, Kill! To flood all Russia with blood, to not give a quarter to anyone, to try to make at least one atomic explosion on the territory of Russian Federation -- this is like the program of radical Resistance should be, and Russian's, and Chechen's, and anyone's! Let the Russians, according to their deserts, reap as they has sown. Russians should be killed, and only killed, for there is no one among them who is normal, intelligent, or who can be talked with and for understanding of whom we could rely. Harsh collective responsibility of all Russians should be introduced, of all loyal Russian citizens for the actions of the government elected by them -- for the genocide, executions, ordeals, trade with corpses... From that moment there should be no division of killers on combatant and non-combatant, wilful or forced. http://rko.marsho.net/articl/mashadov.htm
The article 'Death to Russia' by Boris Stomkahin in Google cache Vlad fedorov 17:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
http://www.prima-news.ru/news/news/2006/3/29/35420.html http://www.newsru.com/russia/03oct2006/stomaxin.html http://lenta.ru/articles/2006/11/20/court/ http://www.regnum.ru/news/739771.html http://www.grani.ru/Society/Xenophobia/m.114646.html http://www.svobodanews.ru/articlete.aspx?exactdate=20061128140042880 http://www.russianlife.nl/boris_stomakhin.htm http://arrests.cjes.ru/?id=282 http://rian.ru/defense_safety/investigations/20061005/54549461.html http://rian.ru/society/20061124/55959089.html
Statement by Jewish representative about FSB concerns "FSB refused to investigate the distribution of a neo-Nazi hit list", and not Stomakhin.
You have intentionally wrote false infromation that Stomakhin was prosecuted by FSB Vlad fedorov 18:32, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following fragments as it is unrelated to FSB. Something probably should go to Russia and the Arab-Israeli conflict and some somewhere else:
It was suggested that Russia helped Saddam Hussein to hide his Weapons of mass destruction before US invasion of Iraq in 2003 [1]
Critics claim that Russian government led by former FSB Director Vladimir Putin is providing modern military technology to the outcast governments and terrorist organizations worldwide. [2] [3] [4] [5] Modern Russian-made anti-tank weapons played significant role in Hezbollah operations against Israel Defense Forces during 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict. Former Lt. General Ion Mihai Pacepa said that "Israel has been attacked with Soviet Kalashnikovs and Katyushas, Russian Fajr-1 and Fajr-3 rockets, Russian AT-5 Spandrel antitank missiles and Kornet antitank rockets." [6] Some FSB-affiliated GRU detachments from Chechnya were transfered to Lebanon independently on the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, where they allegedly conducted intelligence missions together with Hezbollah after the conflict. [7] Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir revealed that Russia and Iran are providing weapons and money to the Taliban in 2006, according to his sources in Afganistan government [8]
It is also possible that Russian government promotes the Nuclear program of Iran to use Iran as proxy against the West. [9] Yossef Bodansky and some others even claim that Iran may have already purchased nuclear warheads from Russia [10] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alex Bakharev ( talk • contribs) 08:01, 16 January 2007 (UTC).
Very interesting material (Russian), Echo of Moscow [2]
Таким событием, с моей точки зрения, стала Коллегия федеральной службы безопасности, которую провел президент В.Путин, и в которой приняли участие все важнейшие чиновники страны. А это глава администрации президента Сергей Собянин, заместитель главы администрации Игорь Сечин, помощник президента Виктор Иванов, глава Контрольного управления Александр Беглов, генеральный прокурор Юрий Чайка, министр внутренних дел Рашид Нургалиев, директор Федеральной службы охраны Евгений Муров, директор СВР - это разведка, Сергей Лебедев, руководитель Госнаркоконтроля Виктор Черкесов. Руководитель Федеральной службы по финансовому мониторингу Виктор Зубков, руководитель Главного управления спецпрограмм президента Александр Царенко, глава Счетной палаты России Сергей Степашин, председатель Верховного суда России Вячеслав Лебедев. Прошу прощения за столь длинное перечисление фамилий, оно просто показывает – не путайте, это было не заседание правительства, это была Коллегия Федеральной службы безопасности. Так вот этот список, конечно, показывает, сколь важное ключевое место в сегодняшней политике России играет наследница КГБ, Федеральная служба безопасности. Кстати, среди приглашенных на заседание этого теневого, или кто-то говорит - второго, первого - кому как больше нравится – правительства России, был приглашен и председатель Комиссии по контролю за деятельностью силовых структур Общественной палаты Анатолий Кучерена. Правда, лишь на телевизионную часть заседания. Потом контролера от кремлевской общественности попросили вон.
Мы знаем, что на этой коллегии ФСБ Путин призвал органы Госбезопасности принять самое деятельное участие в контроле за избирательным процессом. Он сказал – цитирую: «В этом году пройдут очередные выборы в региональные законодательные собрания и Госдуму. Это важнейший демократический механизм формирования государственной власти, власти ответственной, и избранной в результате здоровой политической конкуренции. Важно не только обеспечить законность, - сказал президент, - и правопорядок, но и обезопасить общество от попыток вброса на общественно-политическое поле идеологии экстремизма, национальной и конфессиональной нетерпимости».
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: ...чем ниже уровень политического класса, тем больше там представителей всяких других, боковых ветвей, в том числе, и МВД, и армия, и прочее – то есть, все виды силовых структур уже присутствуют. Но на самой верхушке, политбюро - это буквально 50 на 50 - разведка и контрразведка. Пополам. Но сейчас интересный процесс еще другой - в составы Советов директоров крупнейших компаний с присутствием государства достаточно много сейчас тоже представителей силовиков - этот процесс новые, и пока скрытый от общественного внимания, но мы подробно этим занимаемся, и обнаружили, каким образом туда вмонтируются эти люди.
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: ...всегда профессиональная какая-то группа выделяется по своей функции в обществе - то есть, ментальность, все прочее – это вторично. Это люди - силовики – откуда слово «силовики»? Потому что эти люди с оружием в руках призваны защищать что-то. То есть, это вооруженная группа людей - вот это их объединяет прежде всего. Если смотреть в микроскоп, то конечно - каждый вид оружия, каждый вид спецслужбы, или не спецслужбы, конечно, он различный. Но если смотреть подальше, в телескоп, так сказать, то у них так много общего, что можно их считать одной группой. Конечно, я понимаю все оговорки, которые здесь надо сделать. Почему это одна группа? Еще в советское время она была сконструирована, и слово «силовики» возникло в советское время – ни в одной стране мира почему-то нет такого слова, всегда при переводе на английский, французский, немецкий, приходится пояснить многими словами, что имеется в виду. Почему у нас все они соединены, а там это все-таки разные вещи? Есть причины. У нас была иерархия этих силовых ведомств. И КГБ, а сейчас ФСБ, являлось мозгом, которая управляла другими вооруженными структурами – ну, армией в меньшей степени.
Е.АЛЬБАЦ: но, тем не менее, Третий Главк контролировало и Генштаб и Министерство обороны, и ГРУ.
О.КРЫШТАНОВСКАЯ: Да, конечно. И тройки были во всех регионах. Тройка - это УКГБ, туда еще входил главный милиционер и прокурор. Вот тройки силовиков, которые определяли на местах очень и очень многие важные вещи. Ментальность разная у них. Но поскольку лидирующие позиции занимает ФСБ, то ментальность ФСБ – она ключевая. И поскольку это организация типа такого закрытого ордена, то она построена вся на том, чтобы буквально зомбировать - может быть даже в хорошем смысле, «зомбировать» такое слово с негативным оттенком – пропитывать людей, которые проходят через эту школу, определенной совершенно идеологией. И эта идеология она главенствующая, это идеология, где патриотизм положен в основу основ. Biophys 17:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Lets reference legitimate sources if possible, even if it contradicts your personal beliefs. "According to Chechen sources" holds no value. Compare this article to the article about CIA, notice any difference?
Clearly FSB is not an intelligence agency but secret police organization. See Chronology of Soviet secret police agencies and List of secret police organizations. Biophys 18:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I can also copy a segment from discussion above:
Are you surprised? CIA is a foreign intelligence agency, FSB is a domestic security agency. Colchicum 15:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Right. But what does it mean: "a domestic security agency"? There is no comparison with CIA. This article says: "FSB is a very large organization that combines functions and powers like those exercised by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Federal Protective Service, the Secret Service, the National Security Agency (NSA), U.S. Customs and Border Protection, United States Coast Guard, and Drug Enforcement Administration. FSB also commands a contingent of Internal Troops, spetsnaz, and an extensive network of civilian informants." Note that CIA is missing here, because SVR suppose to be an equivalent of CIA. Biophys 17:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Since the article in Wikipedia says that secret police term is usually used in totalitarian regimes, that description is an evident POV. Russia is a member of European Convetion on Protection of Human Rights and there is jurisdiction of Human Rights Court in Strasbourg over Russia. Russia is a member of European Council, the statute of which evidently excludes the membership of non-democratic states. Constitution of Russian Federation provides that Russian Federation is a ..democratic, unitarian...state. There are direct, open and equal elections in Russian Federation (unlike in the US which do not have open, direct, free and equal elections), there is a Parlament which has exclusive competention not owned by the President of Russian Federation. Totalitarian regimes do not have such institutes and Russia couldn't be characterized in terms used for totalitarian states. Vlad fedorov 04:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
On the one hand, the sources seem (although I did not read them particularly thouroughly) very comprehensive, the english is terrible. Someone with a clear understanding of a) the issues here, which are contentious and lend themselves to debate, and b) english, the language of this section of wikipedia, and hence, the language in which this article should be written, should clean this joint up.
I agree with this. What is more, why is FSB not "The FSB"? That is how it is commonly referred to in English.
The English language wikipedia has been infiltrated by members of the FSB (some of them being wiki admins now) who forge history files and remove content critical of Putin's Russia. So far these attempts meet stiff resistance by the wiki community.
Biophys 01:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Man you guys need to get a life
Were not the majority of arrests of political criminals in NAZI Germany conducted for the Gestapo by the KRIPO? Especially as the KRIPO was also a much larger agency. AND... the police in the UK and the Commonwealth do conduct security and intelligence operations, see Special Branch. I could also add the SIS which was a branch of the FBI operating in South American during and after WWII. There were many allegations of FBI activities as Hoover was also known to oppose the establishment of the OSS and the CIA as he thought the FBI should be an all encompassing agency. Note that FBI means Federal Bureau of Investigations and is not descriptive of what type of investigations, just as the US Marshals and the US Secret Service were both heavily involved in intelligence activities, esp in America's naive adolescence. Just adding food for thought. The previous was added by Tomtom9041 -- 71.242.127.31 22:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to learn the arguments of those who describe FSB as a secret police and specific links to NPOV sites which describe FSB as a secret police, since it is a Wikipedia (Encyclopedia). Please, go on. Vlad fedorov 08:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Статья 8. Деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности Article 8 Деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности осуществляется по следующим основным направлениям: - контрразведывательная деятельность; - борьба с преступностью. Article 9 Контрразведывательная деятельность - деятельность органов Федеральной службы безопасности в пределах своих полномочий по выявлению, предупреждению, пресечению разведывательной и иной деятельности специальных служб и организаций иностранных государств, а также отдельных лиц, направленной на нанесение ущерба безопасности Российской Федерации. Biophys, in your opinion, контрразведка, doesn't mean intteligence? Vlad fedorov 20:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Of course, not! This is counter-intelligence (as already written in this article), not intelligence. It also says: "fight with crime". Who fights crime? Police. Next question: is this secret police or not? Obviously, this is not normal police (such as one run by MVD), obviously it operates in secrecy as described in all sources. Biophys 21:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
But a significant portion of this FSB (Russia) article contradicts completely this assessment. Take a look at "Criticism of FSB actions". It is supported by at least fifty valid references.
All of them tell exactly the opposite. They tell that FSB "activities are not transparent to the public, their primary purpose is to maintain the political power of the state rather than uphold the rule of law, and they have often been used as an instrument of political repression", as explained in the secret police article. So, this is already supported by ~50 references Biophys 14:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
May I just cite the respective passage of Law on FSB? It says that anyone has the right to receive explanations and information from FSB in case their rights and freedoms are restricted. Could you cite me analogous passage from the US legislation on the CIA or FBI? I bet you won't, since the United States Code doesn't vest the US citizens even with right to demand explanations from them. It is exactly why the US Congress, itself, has set up the Committee to investigate the activities of CIA on the US soil. Many thanks. http://fsb.gov.ru/under/fsb.html
Статья 6. Соблюдение прав и свобод человека и гражданина в деятельности органов Федеральной службы безопасности
Государство гарантирует соблюдение прав и свобод человека и гражданина при осуществлении органами Федеральной службы безопасности своей деятельности. Не допускается ограничение прав и свобод человека и гражданина, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных федеральными конституционными законами и федеральными законами.
Лицо, полагающее, что органами Федеральной службы безопасности либо их должностными лицами нарушены его права и свободы, вправе обжаловать действия указанных органов и должностных лиц в вышестоящий орган Федеральной службы безопасности, прокуратуру или суд.
Государственные органы, предприятия, учреждения и организации независимо от форм собственности, а также общественные объединения и граждане имеют право в соответствии с законодательством Российской Федерации получать разъяснения и информацию от органов Федеральной службы безопасности в случае ограничения своих прав и свобод.
The functions of FSB are almost exactly parallel to those of the infamous Geheime Staatspolizei, which was undoubtedly a secret police, as witnessed by its very name. Colchicum 18:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Encarta
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569000_15/Russia.html#p202
"In the Soviet era the KGB (Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti; Russian for 'State Security Committee') and its predecessors were large and powerful organizations. The KGB’s role included intelligence work abroad, counterespionage, and the repression of domestic dissent. The KGB also provided the top Soviet leadership with information about public moods and international developments that could not be gained from the USSR’s censored press. KGB officers were members of the Soviet elite and were often very intelligent and well educated. In 1991 public outcry erupted after the agency participated in a failed coup, and President Yeltsin subsequently split the agency into five bodies. The main heirs to the KGB are the FSB (Federal Security Services), which concentrates on domestic affairs, and the SVR (Foreign Intelligence Service), which inherited the KGB’s foreign agents and activities. Although the major successor agencies are still large bodies with pervasive influence, Russians are now far freer to express their opinions and engage in independent political activity than they were under the KGB in the Soviet Union".
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761574501/KGB.html "KGB, in full, Komitet gosudarstvennoy bezopasnosti (State Security Committee), the government agency of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics..."
Definition of secret police by Encarta: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761565081/Secret_Police.html Secret Police, special police force organized by autocratic or totalitarian regimes in defense against their enemies.
Britannica
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9384885/Federal-Security-Service
Russian Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti , formerly (1994–95) Federal Counterintelligence Service Russian internal security and counterintelligence service created in 1994 as one of the successor agencies of the Soviet-era KGB. It is responsible for counterintelligence, antiterrorism, and surveillance of the military. The FSB occupies the former headquarters of the KGB on Lubyanka Square in downtown Moscow.
Britannica on secret police: http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9378132
Generally clandestine, secret police have operated independently of the civil police. Particularly notorious examples were the Nazi Gestapo, the Russian KGB, and the East German Stasi. Secret-police tactics include arrest, imprisonment, torture, and execution of political enemies and intimidation of potential opposition members.
As we see from this review neither Encarta, nor Britannica call FSB a secret police. I believe that user CPTGbr, is just aspiring to push forcibly his point of view (personal opinion) without citing any sources here. For that he undertook some defamatory and personal attack moves whichj could be seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk%3ABiophys&diff=114715622&oldid=114560367 and here http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk%3AAlex_Bakharev&diff=114896675&oldid=114890366. Vlad fedorov 05:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Just as a tie in to the above last edit and to help clarify this to us Westerners, if the FSB is 'one of' the descendants of the old KGB we all came to know and love would it be possible for someone in the know to link some of it's other descendant agencies to this article? Or, alternatively, put a more dedicated section into the KGB article explaining what old KGB duties went to what new agencies? IE what agency handles internal security to internal threats?
A lot of ex-KGB agents still work at the FSB. That is why many people think the FSB use some KGB tactics/ descended from the KGB. I don't quiet understand the second half of your statement though. CPTGbr 03:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made an while the article was protected. Please complain to WP:AN/I if you think I have abused my admin rights but otherwise the leading phrase does not make sense. Alex Bakharev 05:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
This is answer to ellol question Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Internet_brigades_(2nd_nomination).
You should probably read articles about NKVD, KGB, etc. The purpose of these organizations was never to protect the country from terrorists or outside enemies. Their actual goal was to control the population of their own country. Ideology and propaganda are even more important than repressions to achieve this goal. Hence, they always did disinformation and other "active measures" rather than intelligence (they are doing a lot of "intelligence" within the country using an army of informers). The compete dissolution of FSB (except Border guards) would make the country only much safer. But that will never happen because they are the government of Russia. Biophys 20:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, you should not read NKVD and KGB articles. These articles actually do not explain much, because the strategy of deception is really working (Congratulations, comrades!). I mean: just take a look at certain History textbooks in the US. It seems they were written in FSB. I do not accuse anyone personally of course. Biophys 20:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
See interesting reference: A Rogue Intelligence State? Why Europe and America Cannot Ignore Russia. By Reuel Marc Gerecht. He said: "The FSB and SVR are boldly but sloppily using nuclear hit teams abroad. The "wet jobs" of the former Soviet Union seem pristine in comparison. Western security and intelligence services should start harassing FSB and SVR personnel wherever possible. It should be routine to boot these officers from foreign postings. We should disrupt their lives and the lives of their families whenever and wherever possible. American and European internal-security and foreign-intelligence services should track the finances of former and active-duty FSB and SVR officers. If it is possible to cause them pain--for example, by regularly blocking the accounts of officers even tangentially connected to anti-dissident or criminal activity in Europe or Russia--we should do so." Is that a good idea? Biophys 02:50, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the "critisizim" section is too POV, it treats mere allegations as fact and has too many personal quotes (sound familiar?) QZXA2 00:45, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I have moved the "critisicim" section here, as it seems too POV. Perhps we could fix it up and re add it. QZXA2 22:10, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Do we need the For other uses, see FSB part at the top? FSB is the disambiguation page, not something that redirects here, so articles won't link to it by mistake, and readers won't wander into it by mistake. I would have removed the tag myself, but wanted to query it as it's been there for nearly a year (since this edit: [3]). Anakin 17:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Muffkino 07:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Talk:FSB directs here, but FSB does not redirect to Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation. I'm not sure if this is correct. ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 13:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC))
QZXA2, it is not enough to tell that "30 refernces I deleted are hardly reliable". You must explain why each specific reference you deleted does not satisfy WP:SOURCE. Note that I have organized this article to be pretty much NPOV. I made "Pro" ("Officially stated activities") section followed by "Contra" ("criticizm") section. This is standard practice to achive NPOV in many articles. If you think article was not balanced, you can extend "pro" section, rather than deleting everything you do not like, which is the entire "criticism" section. Do you agree? If you do not, I can combine "pro" and "contra" sections together, while keeping all relevant information and references, of course. Biophys 20:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Biophys, having "official activities" just doesn't work as a balancing tool. Even Nazi death squads had "official" stated activities. Most people will only see the Official activities section as "in theory" and "critisizm" as "in reality". And it is simply not right to add every single negative statement about the FSB. If there were other people involved with this article Im sure they would agree that this article in grossly unbalanced. And I am certain that Wikipedia admimins. would also agree. You also cannot word these unproven statements as solid fact, and it is not in violation of any wikipolicies to call a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory. QZXA2 23:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
You want my answer? No. I want a balanced version. QZXA2 00:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Why don't we just re word the "critisiscm" section while keeping all of the sources? (and of course adding a note thatthere is no solid proof that those allegations are true) QZXA2 01:06, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Will you chaps please learn to spell? -CRITICISM. 199.172.206.47 ( talk) 22:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I have added Aleksandr Bortnikov as new head of FSB. He was just apointed by President Medvedev. -- SergeiXXX ( talk) 07:47, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
This is Federal agency, not a law enforcement agency. Therefore, the template should be like in article United States Secret Service. Biophys ( talk) 05:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Colchicum, why are you reverting my well balanced version? I left the vast majority of sources, I only deleted the most absurd links. I dont get what is wrong with re-wording such a biased article. QZXA2 18:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The 30 refernces I deleted are hardly "reliable". Besides, I mostly just re-worded most of the statements so they would be less POV. You said yourself that I could do so. Why don't you just re-add the sources I deleted rather than the revert my whole edit? QZXA2 22:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
This page is biased tripe, even by the often low standards of wikipedia. It should be extensively balanced or deleted entirely. Kharaku ( talk) 14:16, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The vast majority of the sources in the article cite biased publications and individuals. Just because some old babushka said she heard the FSB is the KGB does not make it sourced, nor does a publication frequently involved in disputes with the FSB stand as a reliable information source about them. Frankly you could use the same techniques and suggest there is serious belief the US government is run by lizard men and it would be no less absurd. How do I get the neutrality is disputed heading onto this page? Kharaku ( talk) 14:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
90% of this article is raw and stupid propaganda. It is like an article of CIA or FBI written using Soviet propaganda publications - about "damn capitalistic bastards hardly oppressing the people of the United States". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.179.106.178 ( talk) 19:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
A general pledge: Wikipedia super-users, moderators and experts: Please do not look for "neutrality" when it comes to power and its possible abuse. Instead only look for honesty, witnesses, sources and truth. Thanks, Myriam Thyes, Dusseldorf. —Preceding undated comment added 23:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC).
It is stated that FSB is an acronym, but if you look at the definition of acronym, you find that this kind of abbreviation is voiced as a word, such as NASA. If this is correct, then what type of sound does pronouncing FSB make "FISB" or "FOSB"? Or should it just be an abbreviation "F"-"S"-"B"?
It's "Eff es bh" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.2.106 ( talk) 18:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
A book mentioned a military-style FSB anti-corruption group called Cobra or Kobra. Does anybody know what this is? (No, not the bad guys from G.I. Joe!) Thanks. 118.165.204.171 ( talk) 01:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Since we use the name KGB for the KGB article, why must we use a semi-descriptive name for FSB (Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation), instead of FSB? Aris Katsaris 05:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Most English-language media use FSB, see CNN for instance. The fact that FSB is not unique is handled in the Wikipedia standard way, by appending a qualification in parentheses: FSB (Russia). I think Mikkalai is mistaken about a policy of using official names for article titles, in fact the policy is to use the most common names: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Thus we have Uruguay, not "Oriental Republic of Uruguay", and United Kingdom, not "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Of course the full official name should often be mentioned in the first sentence or paragraph of the article. -- Curps 01:41, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Although I am new to the topic (FSB), it took me only moments via Google to discover that the middle word when translated means 'Force' (or enforce). A better translation of the Russian words for F.S.B. could be provided in the initial paragraph(s) of the Article. Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 13:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC) PS: Am I wrong, or is it more accurately: "Federal Enforcement Bureau". .?.