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Is this article really worthy of a page!!? 131.111.139.104 ( talk)
Ewither the person that started this thread is a troll or stupid. No reply required. RaseaC ( talk) 19:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
In the long term, this isn't notable. It fails
WP:NOT#NEWS and is therefore unencyclopedic. It's also highly Anglocentric per
WP:BIAS and highly evocative of popular things being talked about per
WP:RECENTISM.--
Rocklin Kyley (
talk)
19:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
How is this article even considered encyclopedic? --
71.246.98.127 (
talk)
20:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the point is the country pretty much did come to a standstill. RaseaC ( talk) 22:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
It's not out of proportion, considering we are talking about one of the most highly developed countries in the world which suffered from the worst snow in 25 odd years in which motorways were closed, people died and billions of pounds were lost coupled with the closing of most schools, almost all transportation in the capital (and other towns), and (whether you like it or not a lot of motorways) I would say the country did come to a standstill. RaseaC ( talk) 23:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Comment: Local? We're talking about five countries here... not five states within one country. Or two cities in two states in one country as the example you've given seems to involve.--➨♀♂ Candlewicke S T # :) 02:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
"True, but the vast majority of Wikipedia's traffic originates from North America." - So the late 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami didn't deserve coverage because it didn't happen in North America? I'm not trying to compare the effect this snowstorm has had on NW Europe with that of the tsunami on coastal SE Asia, but such opinions really baffle me. If you looked over the garden fence every once in a while, you might notice that there are ~70 million people in Europe who speak English as a first language, and just to justify my previous statement, the parliament of India (the second most populous country on the planet, with a population three times that of North America) deals through English, it's recognised as an official language there, so I don't think North America deserves any special treatment in the "en.wikipedia.org" domain regardless of traffic patterns. "It is not a resource meant to represent the majority of its readers. It is a resource meant to represent an agglomeration of human knowledge and is meant to serve people worldwide." - Bang on, I couldn't agree with you more.
Given that the met office (and other wikipedia articles) use the term snow event I propose that we rename this article as February 2009 United Kingdom snow event. KTo288 ( talk) 22:53, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Type of storm: snowstorm let's get some consistency going here people. RaseaC ( talk) 22:46, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I've noted the current falls in my region in the first para - I assume others will add more as the situation develops. Might copy-edit later; have fun ;-) Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 05:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I've included Irish weather-related incidents as it is being affected just as badly as the UK. --➨♀♂ Candlewicke S T # :) 15:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
In North America, we are accustomed to having a snowfall described in number of inches. Would someone include this for reference purposes so that we can tell how bad it is?
On feet= 12inches. Misortie ( talk) 16:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been told, by news articles and the national news on BBC just a minute ago, it was the worst snow for 27 Years? Not too much of a problem, just thought I'd throw it in. 62.31.153.160 ( talk) 18:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Being a little more geographically specific would also help. These snow falls may be exceptional for southern England and Ireland, but in this part of Scotland we've had an inch or two, which is the worst since - well last month really. It's hard to imagine it is all that exceptional for much of Northern England either. Ben Mac Dui 18:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Category:United Kingdom February 2009 snow event at Wikimeda Commons is the place to categorise pictures related to this event. Jolly Ω Janner 21:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
The equivalent for images from the Republic of Ireland is Commons:Category:Ireland February 2009 snow event. KTo288 ( talk) 10:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
For areas used to getting snow, this isn't that much snow. It would probably be worth noting the reasons the storm caused such widespread disruption, which I assume would be because of a lack of snow removal equipment and lack of preparedness in general for this much snow. It may not make sense to spend lots of money every year preparing for something that only comes every couple decades, but the article should at least mention these ideas. - Taxman Talk 03:49, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Sigh. Here in Westport, Co. Mayo we've got some snow on The Reek but no snow otherwise. I guess we get to miss out on all the fun and paralysis. Probably we'll be hit by another wave of gales though. -- Evertype· ✆ 09:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I think that this picture which is on the main page should also be in the article. It's very evocative. Esn ( talk) 22:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Two sections...should they be merged? Could "casualties" be renamed though...the mother who gave birth to the twins...what term could be given to this? Squirrel684 ( talk) 22:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
The snowfall affected not only Britiain and Ireland, but also the smaller islands surrounding them. It even affected the Isle of Man, which is neither part of the United Kingdom nor the Republic of Ireland. In short, it affected the whole of the British Isles. ðarkun coll 00:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
We're probably going to need one of these. I doubt we'll be able to find images relevant to the section i.e Deaths, casualties, media coverage etc, so it seems logical to lay out a place for them. About eight images should be fine. Jolly Ω Janner 03:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
My comment regarding the title changes seems to have been cut off before the end. Here it is in full:
Udzu ( talk) 09:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that this article is rather premature. The event probably isn't even over yet, so it's a bit like trying to write a history of WWII in 1943. It's certainly too soon to put it in any sort of historical perspective. At the moment, there isn't much to go on beyond news reports, and these are rarely to be relied on when it comes to the weather. In his column in the weather feuture in yesterday's Daily Telegraph, Philip Eden points out how the anow event of Sunday/Monday (1st/2nd Feb) became inflated in the media. This was the heaviest snow in London. north Surrey and northwest Kent for 18 years, but as Monday wore on it was described as "the worst for 18 years in parts of the south-east", "the worst for 18 years in some parts of England" and finally as simply "the worst for 18 years". Similarly the claim on Friday that the snow was the deepest for 27 years seemed to be based on a single measurement of 55cm at Okehampton up on Dartmoor, which might or might not have been representative of the "level snow" depth given that there had been a lot of drifting. It's the mild winters that we have had recently that have got everyone so excited by the current event. I don't think it would have been looked on as especially remarkable back in the 1980s. If this cold and snowy spell merits an article, then so do those of Dec 1981, Jam 1982 and Jan 1987, and if one considered the whole of the 20th century there would probably be well over a dozen. JH ( talk page) 10:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The article has been move-protected, due to the ongoing move war. Please resolve the issue through discussion. Note that the protection is not an endorsement of the current article name. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 12:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Just wondering why
Scotland and the
south west are in the same paragraph, being completely the opposite ends of our island. Also, most of the schools down here in the SW were closed around the 5th/6th, which goes against the bit below which says most were reopened on the 4th...
Ը२ձւե๓ձռ
17
14:49, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Why does it say 'dissipated'? It's still snowing.-- So Oaty ( talk) 12:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I have readded the Global warming, Al Gore, and Carbon footprint links. If these are not appropriate, tell me how. I thought that see also links were for those readers who might be interested in tangently related material. I attempted to discuss this with Jolly, but he did not respond nor give a reason for reverting me. Die4Dixie ( talk) 22:31, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
[ [8]] makes the link for us. Die4Dixie ( talk) 22:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
You do not seem to be applying the same standards to the remaining category Die4Dixie ( talk) 23:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
It think it is also worth to mention the overexaggerated reaction of some people in the UK, like closing schools just because of bad weather forecasts etc.. For instance, in Cardiff there was just a tiny bit of snow, and it still managed to paralyse the work of many companies (and as far as I know, the Airport cancelled a few flights). Some people refused to go to work just because of the tiny layer of snow on the ground and Universities cancelled some lectures for the same reason. Many people actually make fun of the Brits because of their reaction. When you look at pictures like this, you see a regular winter in Poland, Germany, Norway or Italy - that's not a lot of snow... BeŻet ( talk) 16:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
This is POV and certainly not worthy of it's own section. The above comments are dangerously close to the arguments against having this article at all due to notability concerns. RaseaC ( talk) 14:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
The reason why this article should be in Wikipedia is not the amount of snow that has fallen, but the panic, chaos and disruption that it caused. The section regarding the panic and its criticism is closely related to it. BeŻet ( talk) 18:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
We need to get some decent Meterological Data in this article which im sure is available from The Met Office, Meteo France, NOAA, as well as the channel 4 documentry shown in england a few weeks ago now. Jason Rees ( talk) 17:31, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Worth using? I'm hosting in on my Flickr page, as the source is pretty slow. Parrot of Doom 20:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested RM. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall → February 2009 British Isles snowfall – British Isles is more suitable than just "Great Britain and Ireland" which suggests those were the only two islands affected which is not the case. greyzxq talk 21:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 23:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
February 2009 British Isles snowfall article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 1 June 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | A news item involving February 2009 British Isles snowfall was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 6 February 2009. | ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 15 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall to February 2009 British Isles snowfall. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Is this article really worthy of a page!!? 131.111.139.104 ( talk)
Ewither the person that started this thread is a troll or stupid. No reply required. RaseaC ( talk) 19:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
In the long term, this isn't notable. It fails
WP:NOT#NEWS and is therefore unencyclopedic. It's also highly Anglocentric per
WP:BIAS and highly evocative of popular things being talked about per
WP:RECENTISM.--
Rocklin Kyley (
talk)
19:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
How is this article even considered encyclopedic? --
71.246.98.127 (
talk)
20:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I think the point is the country pretty much did come to a standstill. RaseaC ( talk) 22:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
It's not out of proportion, considering we are talking about one of the most highly developed countries in the world which suffered from the worst snow in 25 odd years in which motorways were closed, people died and billions of pounds were lost coupled with the closing of most schools, almost all transportation in the capital (and other towns), and (whether you like it or not a lot of motorways) I would say the country did come to a standstill. RaseaC ( talk) 23:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Comment: Local? We're talking about five countries here... not five states within one country. Or two cities in two states in one country as the example you've given seems to involve.--➨♀♂ Candlewicke S T # :) 02:37, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
"True, but the vast majority of Wikipedia's traffic originates from North America." - So the late 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami didn't deserve coverage because it didn't happen in North America? I'm not trying to compare the effect this snowstorm has had on NW Europe with that of the tsunami on coastal SE Asia, but such opinions really baffle me. If you looked over the garden fence every once in a while, you might notice that there are ~70 million people in Europe who speak English as a first language, and just to justify my previous statement, the parliament of India (the second most populous country on the planet, with a population three times that of North America) deals through English, it's recognised as an official language there, so I don't think North America deserves any special treatment in the "en.wikipedia.org" domain regardless of traffic patterns. "It is not a resource meant to represent the majority of its readers. It is a resource meant to represent an agglomeration of human knowledge and is meant to serve people worldwide." - Bang on, I couldn't agree with you more.
Given that the met office (and other wikipedia articles) use the term snow event I propose that we rename this article as February 2009 United Kingdom snow event. KTo288 ( talk) 22:53, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Type of storm: snowstorm let's get some consistency going here people. RaseaC ( talk) 22:46, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I've noted the current falls in my region in the first para - I assume others will add more as the situation develops. Might copy-edit later; have fun ;-) Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 05:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I've included Irish weather-related incidents as it is being affected just as badly as the UK. --➨♀♂ Candlewicke S T # :) 15:43, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
In North America, we are accustomed to having a snowfall described in number of inches. Would someone include this for reference purposes so that we can tell how bad it is?
On feet= 12inches. Misortie ( talk) 16:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been told, by news articles and the national news on BBC just a minute ago, it was the worst snow for 27 Years? Not too much of a problem, just thought I'd throw it in. 62.31.153.160 ( talk) 18:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Being a little more geographically specific would also help. These snow falls may be exceptional for southern England and Ireland, but in this part of Scotland we've had an inch or two, which is the worst since - well last month really. It's hard to imagine it is all that exceptional for much of Northern England either. Ben Mac Dui 18:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Category:United Kingdom February 2009 snow event at Wikimeda Commons is the place to categorise pictures related to this event. Jolly Ω Janner 21:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
The equivalent for images from the Republic of Ireland is Commons:Category:Ireland February 2009 snow event. KTo288 ( talk) 10:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
For areas used to getting snow, this isn't that much snow. It would probably be worth noting the reasons the storm caused such widespread disruption, which I assume would be because of a lack of snow removal equipment and lack of preparedness in general for this much snow. It may not make sense to spend lots of money every year preparing for something that only comes every couple decades, but the article should at least mention these ideas. - Taxman Talk 03:49, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Sigh. Here in Westport, Co. Mayo we've got some snow on The Reek but no snow otherwise. I guess we get to miss out on all the fun and paralysis. Probably we'll be hit by another wave of gales though. -- Evertype· ✆ 09:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I think that this picture which is on the main page should also be in the article. It's very evocative. Esn ( talk) 22:00, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Two sections...should they be merged? Could "casualties" be renamed though...the mother who gave birth to the twins...what term could be given to this? Squirrel684 ( talk) 22:03, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
The snowfall affected not only Britiain and Ireland, but also the smaller islands surrounding them. It even affected the Isle of Man, which is neither part of the United Kingdom nor the Republic of Ireland. In short, it affected the whole of the British Isles. ðarkun coll 00:36, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
We're probably going to need one of these. I doubt we'll be able to find images relevant to the section i.e Deaths, casualties, media coverage etc, so it seems logical to lay out a place for them. About eight images should be fine. Jolly Ω Janner 03:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
My comment regarding the title changes seems to have been cut off before the end. Here it is in full:
Udzu ( talk) 09:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that this article is rather premature. The event probably isn't even over yet, so it's a bit like trying to write a history of WWII in 1943. It's certainly too soon to put it in any sort of historical perspective. At the moment, there isn't much to go on beyond news reports, and these are rarely to be relied on when it comes to the weather. In his column in the weather feuture in yesterday's Daily Telegraph, Philip Eden points out how the anow event of Sunday/Monday (1st/2nd Feb) became inflated in the media. This was the heaviest snow in London. north Surrey and northwest Kent for 18 years, but as Monday wore on it was described as "the worst for 18 years in parts of the south-east", "the worst for 18 years in some parts of England" and finally as simply "the worst for 18 years". Similarly the claim on Friday that the snow was the deepest for 27 years seemed to be based on a single measurement of 55cm at Okehampton up on Dartmoor, which might or might not have been representative of the "level snow" depth given that there had been a lot of drifting. It's the mild winters that we have had recently that have got everyone so excited by the current event. I don't think it would have been looked on as especially remarkable back in the 1980s. If this cold and snowy spell merits an article, then so do those of Dec 1981, Jam 1982 and Jan 1987, and if one considered the whole of the 20th century there would probably be well over a dozen. JH ( talk page) 10:17, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
The article has been move-protected, due to the ongoing move war. Please resolve the issue through discussion. Note that the protection is not an endorsement of the current article name. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 12:07, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Just wondering why
Scotland and the
south west are in the same paragraph, being completely the opposite ends of our island. Also, most of the schools down here in the SW were closed around the 5th/6th, which goes against the bit below which says most were reopened on the 4th...
Ը२ձւե๓ձռ
17
14:49, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Why does it say 'dissipated'? It's still snowing.-- So Oaty ( talk) 12:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
I have readded the Global warming, Al Gore, and Carbon footprint links. If these are not appropriate, tell me how. I thought that see also links were for those readers who might be interested in tangently related material. I attempted to discuss this with Jolly, but he did not respond nor give a reason for reverting me. Die4Dixie ( talk) 22:31, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
[ [8]] makes the link for us. Die4Dixie ( talk) 22:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
You do not seem to be applying the same standards to the remaining category Die4Dixie ( talk) 23:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
It think it is also worth to mention the overexaggerated reaction of some people in the UK, like closing schools just because of bad weather forecasts etc.. For instance, in Cardiff there was just a tiny bit of snow, and it still managed to paralyse the work of many companies (and as far as I know, the Airport cancelled a few flights). Some people refused to go to work just because of the tiny layer of snow on the ground and Universities cancelled some lectures for the same reason. Many people actually make fun of the Brits because of their reaction. When you look at pictures like this, you see a regular winter in Poland, Germany, Norway or Italy - that's not a lot of snow... BeŻet ( talk) 16:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
This is POV and certainly not worthy of it's own section. The above comments are dangerously close to the arguments against having this article at all due to notability concerns. RaseaC ( talk) 14:17, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
The reason why this article should be in Wikipedia is not the amount of snow that has fallen, but the panic, chaos and disruption that it caused. The section regarding the panic and its criticism is closely related to it. BeŻet ( talk) 18:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
We need to get some decent Meterological Data in this article which im sure is available from The Met Office, Meteo France, NOAA, as well as the channel 4 documentry shown in england a few weeks ago now. Jason Rees ( talk) 17:31, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Worth using? I'm hosting in on my Flickr page, as the source is pretty slow. Parrot of Doom 20:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested RM. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ❯❯❯ Raydann (Talk) 00:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
February 2009 Great Britain and Ireland snowfall → February 2009 British Isles snowfall – British Isles is more suitable than just "Great Britain and Ireland" which suggests those were the only two islands affected which is not the case. greyzxq talk 21:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 23:55, 22 September 2023 (UTC)