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From the citations in this section, it seems that there is significant opinion that the Putin regime is not fascist because it is reactionary and not revolutionary. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the current Russian state to dispute that, but I would point out that if we take Nazi Germany as one of the primary examples of fascism, there are a number of interesting factors:
Of course, this is just OR argumentation, and I'm not suggesting that any changes me made in the article at this time, just pointing out a direction which might be fruitful for further research. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 21:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Russia being fascist is a WP:FRINGE view.This is simply false. There is legitimate disagreement among scholars on the matter but neither side can claim a monopoly on the mainstream. TFD, you and I have disagreed about this before, and if necessary I will be willing to continue the conversation. Generalrelative ( talk) 23:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Weight says that information whould be presented according to its prominence in reliable sources. This is very important because we don't want to give readers a different impression of topics than they would get if they studied a topic in an undergraduate program or what they would read in a reputable encyclopedia or guidebook of politics. Articles are not supposed to draw undue attention to aspects of a subject that receive little attention in mainstream sources.
You could write thousands of pages about fascism and still leave things out. Our task is to render all that information into a short article. But because the number of Wikipedia articles is limitless, we can provide daughter articles where readers can explore their specific interest in the topics.
Of course, it's a challenge to determine what information should be included in order to satisfy weight. One method that policy recommends is WP:TERTIARY: "Reliable tertiary sources can help provide broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources and may help evaluate due weight." In that case we could use textbooks but that does not exhaust possible sources. Another, which you seem to favor is to look at undergraduate course outlines.
Cambridge's Institute of Continuing Education is offering a course called, "Fascism: history and interpretation, 1919-45." The name of the course indicates that post-war Fascism, which is usually called neo-Fascism, is peripheral to the topic. But perhaps you could provide course outlines that devote more than passing reference to Putin.
Or perhaps you have another way to determine weight.
TFD ( talk) 12:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Laruelle quickly shows in the introduction that [the notion that Russia is fascist] is not a canard or a straw man. Many reputable scholars and public intellectuals have drawn parallels between the Putin regime, its actions, and European fascism, including Snyder, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Alexander Motyl, Vladimir Inozemtsev, Gary Kasparov, Anna Politkovskaya, Madeline Albright and Hillary Clinton. The term "fascism" has become part of the Western discussion on the nature of the Putin regime, even more so since Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
While the book may establish the notability of the Putin-Hitler comparison, it doesn't mean it's significant to the topic of Fascism.It's specifically about Fascism. You're just plain wrong. Check the link. I'm not going to read further when you open by denying the blatantly obvious like this. Happy ( Slap me) 19:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
this will never happen, there’s no other way to put it at this point. Please stop asking.
Dronebogus (
talk)
21:07, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
|
---|
I know that Wiki won't change the introductory phrase "Fascism is a far-right", which is their perogative. However, this refusal in itself is portraying bias, which I thought was not allowed. Why does Fascism have to be labeled right or left, anyway? Why can't it just begin with the definition of Fascism and continue on with its factual history? Why would students want to use Wiki information if any part of it was based on opinion only? I thought that Wiki rules included posting only non-biased articles (same goes for Google)? I never would have guessed that Wiki was biased in any way, and it is very disappointing. Wa6dia ( talk) 16:50, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
|
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Fascism isn't far-right, historically Fascism has been right-leaning on most social issues however on social issues Fascism tends to be more left wing. Syndicalism is a left-wing policy. But fascists don't necessarily have to be far-right, fascists can be moderate too. Syncretic is a much better term than right-wing; right-wing is misleading. TheFriendlyFas2 ( talk) 05:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This question can't be answered, as such this should be closed. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:04, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken You reverted my content without explanation. Please explain yourself. X-Editor ( talk) 01:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
This article, along with "Fascism and ideology", inconsistently capitalizes the word as either "fascism" or "Fascism". As far as I am aware there isn't a difference between the way the word is being used when it is or is not capitalized. Actually Existing Napoleon ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
“…exalts nation over individual…” That is the OPPOSITE of right wing
Andrew S. (
talk)
02:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Change from; (paragraph 4)
Fascism rejects assertions that violence is inherently bad and views imperialism, political violence and war as means to national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists often advocate for the establishment of a totalitarian one-party state,[12][13] and for a dirigiste[14][15] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[16] Fascism's extreme authoritarianism and nationalism often manifests as belief in racial purity or a master race, usually blended with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other", such as Jews. These ideas have motivated fascist regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[17]
To;
Fascism rejects assertions that violence is inherently bad and views imperialism, political violence and war as means to national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists often advocate for the establishment of a totalitarian one-party state,[12][13] and for a dirigiste[14][15] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[16] Nazism's extreme authoritarianism and nationalism often manifests as belief in racial purity or a master race, usually blended with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other", such as Jews. These Nazi ideologies (Mein Kampf) have motivated Nazi type regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[17]
Add to end of 4th paragraph;
(Although Italy and Germany were dictatorial alliances, and the word fascism has now become synonymous with evil, interestingly fascist doctrine conceived in Italy did not include racial inferiority or superiority but loyalty to the State by all, and Mussolini did not allow for - or practice the establishment of concentration camps for ethnic groups, genocide, or forced sterilization as exhibited in Germany, Russia and the United States [regarding Japanese Americans, American Indians, African Americans, and in the Philippines of 1.4 million during the Spanish American War]. In respect to forced deportations, the Italian Fascist government and military prevented the incarceration of the Jewish community by the Vichy government under Nazi orders in Italian occupied France and allowed for the entry into their zone of other French Jews saving over 40,000 people from deportation to German concentration camps. A larger number is estimated in the other Italian held regions of Croatia, Greece, and Tunisia. [Sources include "Mussolini a new life" by Nicholos Farrell, and Mussolini's Army in the French Riviera, by Emanule Sica, to include their documented sources] Bgg6006 ( talk) 12:48, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 50 | ← | Archive 53 | Archive 54 | Archive 55 |
From the citations in this section, it seems that there is significant opinion that the Putin regime is not fascist because it is reactionary and not revolutionary. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the current Russian state to dispute that, but I would point out that if we take Nazi Germany as one of the primary examples of fascism, there are a number of interesting factors:
Of course, this is just OR argumentation, and I'm not suggesting that any changes me made in the article at this time, just pointing out a direction which might be fruitful for further research. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 21:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Russia being fascist is a WP:FRINGE view.This is simply false. There is legitimate disagreement among scholars on the matter but neither side can claim a monopoly on the mainstream. TFD, you and I have disagreed about this before, and if necessary I will be willing to continue the conversation. Generalrelative ( talk) 23:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Weight says that information whould be presented according to its prominence in reliable sources. This is very important because we don't want to give readers a different impression of topics than they would get if they studied a topic in an undergraduate program or what they would read in a reputable encyclopedia or guidebook of politics. Articles are not supposed to draw undue attention to aspects of a subject that receive little attention in mainstream sources.
You could write thousands of pages about fascism and still leave things out. Our task is to render all that information into a short article. But because the number of Wikipedia articles is limitless, we can provide daughter articles where readers can explore their specific interest in the topics.
Of course, it's a challenge to determine what information should be included in order to satisfy weight. One method that policy recommends is WP:TERTIARY: "Reliable tertiary sources can help provide broad summaries of topics that involve many primary and secondary sources and may help evaluate due weight." In that case we could use textbooks but that does not exhaust possible sources. Another, which you seem to favor is to look at undergraduate course outlines.
Cambridge's Institute of Continuing Education is offering a course called, "Fascism: history and interpretation, 1919-45." The name of the course indicates that post-war Fascism, which is usually called neo-Fascism, is peripheral to the topic. But perhaps you could provide course outlines that devote more than passing reference to Putin.
Or perhaps you have another way to determine weight.
TFD ( talk) 12:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
Laruelle quickly shows in the introduction that [the notion that Russia is fascist] is not a canard or a straw man. Many reputable scholars and public intellectuals have drawn parallels between the Putin regime, its actions, and European fascism, including Snyder, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Alexander Motyl, Vladimir Inozemtsev, Gary Kasparov, Anna Politkovskaya, Madeline Albright and Hillary Clinton. The term "fascism" has become part of the Western discussion on the nature of the Putin regime, even more so since Russia's 2022 invasion of Ukraine.
While the book may establish the notability of the Putin-Hitler comparison, it doesn't mean it's significant to the topic of Fascism.It's specifically about Fascism. You're just plain wrong. Check the link. I'm not going to read further when you open by denying the blatantly obvious like this. Happy ( Slap me) 19:55, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
this will never happen, there’s no other way to put it at this point. Please stop asking.
Dronebogus (
talk)
21:07, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
|
---|
I know that Wiki won't change the introductory phrase "Fascism is a far-right", which is their perogative. However, this refusal in itself is portraying bias, which I thought was not allowed. Why does Fascism have to be labeled right or left, anyway? Why can't it just begin with the definition of Fascism and continue on with its factual history? Why would students want to use Wiki information if any part of it was based on opinion only? I thought that Wiki rules included posting only non-biased articles (same goes for Google)? I never would have guessed that Wiki was biased in any way, and it is very disappointing. Wa6dia ( talk) 16:50, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
|
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Fascism isn't far-right, historically Fascism has been right-leaning on most social issues however on social issues Fascism tends to be more left wing. Syndicalism is a left-wing policy. But fascists don't necessarily have to be far-right, fascists can be moderate too. Syncretic is a much better term than right-wing; right-wing is misleading. TheFriendlyFas2 ( talk) 05:40, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This question can't be answered, as such this should be closed. Slatersteven ( talk) 16:04, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken You reverted my content without explanation. Please explain yourself. X-Editor ( talk) 01:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
This article, along with "Fascism and ideology", inconsistently capitalizes the word as either "fascism" or "Fascism". As far as I am aware there isn't a difference between the way the word is being used when it is or is not capitalized. Actually Existing Napoleon ( talk) 18:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism
“…exalts nation over individual…” That is the OPPOSITE of right wing
Andrew S. (
talk)
02:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Change from; (paragraph 4)
Fascism rejects assertions that violence is inherently bad and views imperialism, political violence and war as means to national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists often advocate for the establishment of a totalitarian one-party state,[12][13] and for a dirigiste[14][15] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[16] Fascism's extreme authoritarianism and nationalism often manifests as belief in racial purity or a master race, usually blended with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other", such as Jews. These ideas have motivated fascist regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[17]
To;
Fascism rejects assertions that violence is inherently bad and views imperialism, political violence and war as means to national rejuvenation.[11] Fascists often advocate for the establishment of a totalitarian one-party state,[12][13] and for a dirigiste[14][15] economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and economic interventionist policies.[16] Nazism's extreme authoritarianism and nationalism often manifests as belief in racial purity or a master race, usually blended with some variant of racism or bigotry against a demonized "Other", such as Jews. These Nazi ideologies (Mein Kampf) have motivated Nazi type regimes to commit genocides, massacres, forced sterilizations, mass killings, and forced deportations.[17]
Add to end of 4th paragraph;
(Although Italy and Germany were dictatorial alliances, and the word fascism has now become synonymous with evil, interestingly fascist doctrine conceived in Italy did not include racial inferiority or superiority but loyalty to the State by all, and Mussolini did not allow for - or practice the establishment of concentration camps for ethnic groups, genocide, or forced sterilization as exhibited in Germany, Russia and the United States [regarding Japanese Americans, American Indians, African Americans, and in the Philippines of 1.4 million during the Spanish American War]. In respect to forced deportations, the Italian Fascist government and military prevented the incarceration of the Jewish community by the Vichy government under Nazi orders in Italian occupied France and allowed for the entry into their zone of other French Jews saving over 40,000 people from deportation to German concentration camps. A larger number is estimated in the other Italian held regions of Croatia, Greece, and Tunisia. [Sources include "Mussolini a new life" by Nicholos Farrell, and Mussolini's Army in the French Riviera, by Emanule Sica, to include their documented sources] Bgg6006 ( talk) 12:48, 18 October 2022 (UTC)