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I removed this image since Parsiwans aren't really distinguished seperatly from the Tajiks by their appearance, but rather by religious sect. Also because not all Heratis are Farsiwan. The common consensus is that most of Herat is Tajik with a Shia (Farsiwan) minority. I'll keep it here. If you disagree please let me know and I'll place it back.
-- Behnam 11:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
This article as of January 2008 stated a population of 900,000 Farsiwan without citation. However, the Encyc. Iranica gives a figure of 600,000. L. Dupree, "Afghanistan: (iv.) Ethnography", in Encyclopædia Iranica, Online Edition 2006, LINK. Keeping in mind that the Encyc. Iranica article was written in 1982, and that a systematic census has not been held in the country since 1980, exact figures about the size and composition of the various ethnic groups are not available. BBC News - Afghan poll's ethnic battleground - October 6, 2004 Hence, 900,000 may be correct given 25 years of growth, or refugees leaving Herat for Iran or elsewhere may have stabilized that figure at 600,000 or even reduced it. Because of this uncertainty, I have used the 600,000 figure for which we have a citation with a clarifying (est.1982). -- Bejnar ( talk) 18:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The Encyc. Iranica makes clear in the article on Afghanistan - Ethnography that "The term Farsiwan also has the regional forms Parsiwan and Parsiban. In religion they are Imamite Shiite. In the literature they are often mistakenly referred to as Tajik." L. Dupree, "Afghanistan: (iv.) Ethnography", in Encyclopædia Iranica Online Edition 2006. They are not just urban dwellers they are farmers in Herat and Farah provinces. See, e.g., Robson, Barbara and Lipson, Juliene (2002) "Chapter 5(B)- The People: The Tajiks and Other Dari-Speaking Groups" The Afghans - their history and culture Cultural Orientation Resource Center, Center for Applied Linguistics, Washington, D.C., [http://worldcat.org/oclc/56081073 OCLC 56081073 and [www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo006/fmo006-3.htm "Afghanistan: Hisorical political overview" FMO Research Guide]-- Bejnar ( talk) 19:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
“ | Tadjik is the general name of the Persian-speaking population of
Afghanistan, often also called Parsiwans, or, in the East and South, Dihgans and Dihwars. |
” |
and
“ | The self-designation of
Persian-speakers in AfÿŠ§nist§n had been for a long time most commonly F§rsÊw§n, F§rsÊb§n, or F§rsÊ-gå(y). |
” |
RealAfghan112 ( talk) 03:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
There are more. Would you like some of them? -- Bejnar ( talk) 00:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Request for comments on whether the Farsiwan of Heart and Farah provinces are distinct from other Tajiks?:
“ | Tadjik is the general name of the Persian-speaking population of
Afghanistan, often also called Parsiwans, or, in the East and South, Dihgans and Dihwars. |
” |
RealAfghan112 ( talk) 21:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It seems that Farsiwans and Tajiks speaks one language and genetically are of the same stock but Farsiwans are Shia and tajiks are Sunni. I'd rather call Farsiwans, Shia Tajiks; as opposed to a distinct ethnolinguistic group. ( talk) 16 Feb 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.7.76 ( talk)
for iranian shia, who came with Nader Shah Afshar and Ahmad shah durrani to Khurasan(Afghanistan) ther is a name: Qizilbash. in Afghanistan People call them Qizilbash, they are shia and farsi speakers. 82.10.88.187 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 01:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
H. F. Schurmann, The Mongols of Afghanistan: an Ethnography of the Moghols and Related Peoples of Afghanistan. The Hague: Mouton, 1962: [1]; p. 75: "... the Tajiks of Western Afghanistan [are] roughly the same as the Khûrâsânî Persians on the other side of the line ...", speaks of Tajiks, not Fariwans in the specific sense.-- Bejnar ( talk) 00:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The fact that the word Parsi is used sometimes to refer to Tajiks is irrelevant to this article about the Farsiwan. -- Bejnar ( talk) 20:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I have re-reverted User:Bejnar's recent revert, because it was no improvement of the article. It took back the article to a weaker version, partially ignoring the attached sources. Tājik ( talk) 16:36, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The term " Dari" isn't used in this article. It should be added, and explained. Badagnani ( talk) 04:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I have removed an unsourced and factually wrong claim. Tājik ( talk) 02:35, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Surely, the "Farsiwans" (and the "Tajiks" too) can be understood in both broad or narrow senses. But let's talk about the most useful senses. Great information can be found in maps by M. Izady at http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/maps.shtml and much information can be inferred. Refer to these maps: 1) Afghanistan, Ethnic Groups (detailed), 2) Afghanistan, Religions (detailed), 3) Afghanistan, Languages (detailed), 4) Afghanistan Cultural and Historical Zones, and 5) Persian Language Distribution.
Parsiwans (in the narrow sense) are Persian speaking Imami Shia farmers or urbanites without any other ethnic or tribal affiliation. If Afghanistan didn't come to existence in the 18th century, these people would live in Iran and would be no different than other Persian speaking Iranians (or "Persians"). By the way, mind that Izady notes there is no "Persian ethnicity". So the Parsiwans are in fact Persian speaking Iranians in a cultural sense or "Persians".
The Parsiwans can be found in southwestern (Sistan) and western (Khurasan) Afghanistan, then in the plains of northern Afghanistan (Balkh) and in southeastern Afghanistan (Kabul, Logar, Ghazni and Kandahar areas).
In Bukhara in Uzbekistan, there live both Sunni Persian speaking Tajiks and Imami Shia Persian speaking "Ironis". These Ironis are another example of people that would be called Iranians or "Persians" if Bukhara would belong to Iran.
Tajiks have their own Tajik ethnicity. They live in northeastern Afghanistan (Badakhshan) and some adjacent areas in central Afghanistan and around and in Kabul. Tajiks are Sunni Muslims. 88.103.175.144 ( talk) 23:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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Hello I am a tajik from ghazni afghanistan, I have no idea why this page exists. It seems to be another one of the many misconceptions outsiders have regarding afghanistan. I was born and lived for 15 years in afghanistan, never did I hear that farsiwan was a distinct ethnic group, or did it only refer to shia persian speakers. I am from ghazni and i am a sunni, but I was still refered to as a farsiwan. Farsiwan is just the term pashtuns use for persian speakers, infact its the corruption of the persian words farsi zaban (persian speaker). If farsiwan just refers to shias in western afghanistan, then why are all tajiks in afghanistan also refered to as farsiwan, why are sunni tajiks in northern afghanistan, southern afghanistan called farsiwan. Encyclopedia iranica is not a legit source in my opion, it says tajiks only inhabit badakshan province, if thats the case then why are tajiks the second biggest group inside afghanistan (30-40%)?. 1DHNK1 ( talk) 10:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Farsiwan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I removed this image since Parsiwans aren't really distinguished seperatly from the Tajiks by their appearance, but rather by religious sect. Also because not all Heratis are Farsiwan. The common consensus is that most of Herat is Tajik with a Shia (Farsiwan) minority. I'll keep it here. If you disagree please let me know and I'll place it back.
-- Behnam 11:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
This article as of January 2008 stated a population of 900,000 Farsiwan without citation. However, the Encyc. Iranica gives a figure of 600,000. L. Dupree, "Afghanistan: (iv.) Ethnography", in Encyclopædia Iranica, Online Edition 2006, LINK. Keeping in mind that the Encyc. Iranica article was written in 1982, and that a systematic census has not been held in the country since 1980, exact figures about the size and composition of the various ethnic groups are not available. BBC News - Afghan poll's ethnic battleground - October 6, 2004 Hence, 900,000 may be correct given 25 years of growth, or refugees leaving Herat for Iran or elsewhere may have stabilized that figure at 600,000 or even reduced it. Because of this uncertainty, I have used the 600,000 figure for which we have a citation with a clarifying (est.1982). -- Bejnar ( talk) 18:26, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The Encyc. Iranica makes clear in the article on Afghanistan - Ethnography that "The term Farsiwan also has the regional forms Parsiwan and Parsiban. In religion they are Imamite Shiite. In the literature they are often mistakenly referred to as Tajik." L. Dupree, "Afghanistan: (iv.) Ethnography", in Encyclopædia Iranica Online Edition 2006. They are not just urban dwellers they are farmers in Herat and Farah provinces. See, e.g., Robson, Barbara and Lipson, Juliene (2002) "Chapter 5(B)- The People: The Tajiks and Other Dari-Speaking Groups" The Afghans - their history and culture Cultural Orientation Resource Center, Center for Applied Linguistics, Washington, D.C., [http://worldcat.org/oclc/56081073 OCLC 56081073 and [www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo006/fmo006-3.htm "Afghanistan: Hisorical political overview" FMO Research Guide]-- Bejnar ( talk) 19:45, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
“ | Tadjik is the general name of the Persian-speaking population of
Afghanistan, often also called Parsiwans, or, in the East and South, Dihgans and Dihwars. |
” |
and
“ | The self-designation of
Persian-speakers in AfÿŠ§nist§n had been for a long time most commonly F§rsÊw§n, F§rsÊb§n, or F§rsÊ-gå(y). |
” |
RealAfghan112 ( talk) 03:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
There are more. Would you like some of them? -- Bejnar ( talk) 00:36, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Request for comments on whether the Farsiwan of Heart and Farah provinces are distinct from other Tajiks?:
“ | Tadjik is the general name of the Persian-speaking population of
Afghanistan, often also called Parsiwans, or, in the East and South, Dihgans and Dihwars. |
” |
RealAfghan112 ( talk) 21:25, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It seems that Farsiwans and Tajiks speaks one language and genetically are of the same stock but Farsiwans are Shia and tajiks are Sunni. I'd rather call Farsiwans, Shia Tajiks; as opposed to a distinct ethnolinguistic group. ( talk) 16 Feb 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.7.76 ( talk)
for iranian shia, who came with Nader Shah Afshar and Ahmad shah durrani to Khurasan(Afghanistan) ther is a name: Qizilbash. in Afghanistan People call them Qizilbash, they are shia and farsi speakers. 82.10.88.187 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 01:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
H. F. Schurmann, The Mongols of Afghanistan: an Ethnography of the Moghols and Related Peoples of Afghanistan. The Hague: Mouton, 1962: [1]; p. 75: "... the Tajiks of Western Afghanistan [are] roughly the same as the Khûrâsânî Persians on the other side of the line ...", speaks of Tajiks, not Fariwans in the specific sense.-- Bejnar ( talk) 00:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The fact that the word Parsi is used sometimes to refer to Tajiks is irrelevant to this article about the Farsiwan. -- Bejnar ( talk) 20:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I have re-reverted User:Bejnar's recent revert, because it was no improvement of the article. It took back the article to a weaker version, partially ignoring the attached sources. Tājik ( talk) 16:36, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
The term " Dari" isn't used in this article. It should be added, and explained. Badagnani ( talk) 04:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
I have removed an unsourced and factually wrong claim. Tājik ( talk) 02:35, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Surely, the "Farsiwans" (and the "Tajiks" too) can be understood in both broad or narrow senses. But let's talk about the most useful senses. Great information can be found in maps by M. Izady at http://gulf2000.columbia.edu/maps.shtml and much information can be inferred. Refer to these maps: 1) Afghanistan, Ethnic Groups (detailed), 2) Afghanistan, Religions (detailed), 3) Afghanistan, Languages (detailed), 4) Afghanistan Cultural and Historical Zones, and 5) Persian Language Distribution.
Parsiwans (in the narrow sense) are Persian speaking Imami Shia farmers or urbanites without any other ethnic or tribal affiliation. If Afghanistan didn't come to existence in the 18th century, these people would live in Iran and would be no different than other Persian speaking Iranians (or "Persians"). By the way, mind that Izady notes there is no "Persian ethnicity". So the Parsiwans are in fact Persian speaking Iranians in a cultural sense or "Persians".
The Parsiwans can be found in southwestern (Sistan) and western (Khurasan) Afghanistan, then in the plains of northern Afghanistan (Balkh) and in southeastern Afghanistan (Kabul, Logar, Ghazni and Kandahar areas).
In Bukhara in Uzbekistan, there live both Sunni Persian speaking Tajiks and Imami Shia Persian speaking "Ironis". These Ironis are another example of people that would be called Iranians or "Persians" if Bukhara would belong to Iran.
Tajiks have their own Tajik ethnicity. They live in northeastern Afghanistan (Badakhshan) and some adjacent areas in central Afghanistan and around and in Kabul. Tajiks are Sunni Muslims. 88.103.175.144 ( talk) 23:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Farsiwan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello I am a tajik from ghazni afghanistan, I have no idea why this page exists. It seems to be another one of the many misconceptions outsiders have regarding afghanistan. I was born and lived for 15 years in afghanistan, never did I hear that farsiwan was a distinct ethnic group, or did it only refer to shia persian speakers. I am from ghazni and i am a sunni, but I was still refered to as a farsiwan. Farsiwan is just the term pashtuns use for persian speakers, infact its the corruption of the persian words farsi zaban (persian speaker). If farsiwan just refers to shias in western afghanistan, then why are all tajiks in afghanistan also refered to as farsiwan, why are sunni tajiks in northern afghanistan, southern afghanistan called farsiwan. Encyclopedia iranica is not a legit source in my opion, it says tajiks only inhabit badakshan province, if thats the case then why are tajiks the second biggest group inside afghanistan (30-40%)?. 1DHNK1 ( talk) 10:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC)