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As one can tell from some recent edits, Barack Obama's half brother George was recently arrested in his home on charges (which he denies) of possessing marijuana. He was also accused of resisting arrest. In general we do not cover arrests of non-notable people, for WP:BLP reasons. Claims of resisting arrest, if not proven, are particularly unreliable. Overall, a high proportion of the world population has an arrest record for one thing or another. We don't cover every arrest of every person in their bio, it has to actually be relevant to something. This is an extremely minor criminal incident that would have no notability except that the person involved is an estranged overseas relative of a U.S. President, so covering it here is a bit tabloid-ish. Newspapers cover it because it is news. But we are an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. For a number of reasons I believe it is premature, unencyclopedic, and a BLP violation, to mention that in this article. I am therefore deleting the section. We can discuss here and explore the matter more fully. In the next few days, weeks, and months, we might learn if this truly becomes an issue that attracts a lot of coverage, or it is simply the minor news of the day. Wikidemon ( talk) 00:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
What, exactly, is your justification for deleting this verifiable and newsworthy information, other than your subjective opinion that it is "tabloid-ish" and an "extremely minor" offense? If George Obama is important enough to be listed in this article -- complete with biographical background and personal information about his living conditions, then I can think of no persuasive reason for why this shouldn't be included, either. It is debatable whether George is a NPF (I would maintain that his blood relation to the President of the United States, combined with both the spate of public interviews he has granted, his appearance in President Obama's best-selling autobiography, and a high-profile, pre-election CNN piece about him, precludes that designation). Regardless, even assuming arguendo that George could be classified an NPF, there would still be no reason to exclude the fact of his arrest, as it is relevant to his notability (i.e., he's notable because he's the President's brother, and it's notable when the President's brother gets arrested...ergo, it's notable that George Obama was arrested).- PassionoftheDamon ( talk) 16:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I added Malia & Sasha's ages & birthdates, and "Baseball Bugs" removed them, citing that there had been both a discussion about it and that a consensus decision was reached to not include their ages and birthdates. I can find no such discussion nor evidence of any consensus decision about it. All I could find was a conversation about which year Malia was born. Is there any reason their dates of birth should not be included? The president & his wife have freely discussed with the press celebrating their daughters' birthdays on multiple occasions. Ajlipp ( talk) 01:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Here is the discussion - it has been archived, so any further discussion would be on Talk: Barack Obama, but consensus was as BB said - for privacy reasons we shouldn't be including the exact dates of the children. Tvoz/ talk 19:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
This article is surreal. ja fiswa imċappas bil-hara! ( talk) 04:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
In this news article, it mentions that Barack Obama, Sr. was the second born son of his father's eight sons and this news article mentions that Obama, Sr. had an elder brother named Joseph that left school in 1951. Yet Joseph is omitted completely from Dreams from My Father. Cladeal832 ( talk) 19:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
the text part:
should be placed before the text part:
then theere will be the correct order :
grand grand-grandfather, grand-grandfather, grandfather, father
Axelwa ( talk) 10:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
About this photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barack_Obama%27s_Kenyan_relatives.jpg It was probably taken on Barack's first trip to Kenya. The taking of the picture is mentioned in the Epilogue of Dreams from My Father. The 'unidentified woman' embracing Abongo (Roy) Obama may very well be his then girlfriend, Amy. She is introduced in Chapter 17. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frollo ( talk • contribs) 07:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
"They will be the youngest residents of the White House since Amy Carter arrived at age nine in 1977." That's a silly statement since Natasha is 7 years old. She should be the youngest since a Kennedy I think.-- Appraiser ( talk) 16:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
In light of john k's extensive research, and apparent assent to his arguments, I've added a separate Malia Ann Obama page. I think a Sasha Obama page would be called for as well. Binarybits ( talk) 21:18, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
← Sorry, but you don't have consensus for this change - perhaps you want to bring up an RFC for more opinions, but I'm reverting based on the comments above. Tvoz/ talk 03:51, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
On one hand such distant genealogical relationships, as supported by WP:RS, have received no small amount of news coverage and commentary. On the other, the chart, for example, delineating the relationship between Obama and Queen Elizabeth II (actually, Prince Charles, making the number of generations shown on each side equal) could be composed for a substantial portion of the population of the United States (pending the proper research involved being done first, of course). What does everyone think? ↜Just M E here , now 00:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Could someone familiar with the family of Barack Obama, and preferably with the book Dreams from my Father, please confirm or correct my suspicion that this edit is incorrect.- gadfium 01:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Impactplayer contributed
Michelle's earliest known relative is her maternal side is her great-great-great grandfather Peter Jumper, born in the 1700s with a family line that would extend from rural Georgia, to Birmingham, Alabama. On her paternal side its Jim Robinson who was an American slave on the Friendfield plantation in South Carolina. The family believes that after the Civil War he remained a Friendfield plantation sharecropper for the rest of his life and that he was buried there in an unmarked grave. (Referenced to NYTimes article)
-- which was reverted. I am posting it here in hopes something from it can possibly be salvaged. ↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 02:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The photo couldn't possibly have been dated 1960. Michelle Obama is an infant in the photo. She was born in January 1964. The photo was almost certainly taken in 1964, based on the apparent age of baby Michelle (less than one year old). I'm changing it, but posting here in case anyone cares to discuss. Erie lhonan 18:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
I recently created a seperate article for Malia Obama, but it was steadfastly reverted due to and based on a deletion discussion that was dated as May 2008. So, I wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether or not an article for Malia, or both Malia and Sasha would be appropriate now that their father has been elected, rather than just a candidate for the party's nomination when the first deletion of the article was discussed. Thanks. Gage ( talk) 13:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
The kids gave an interview to reporters then Obama said he shouldn't have allowed it. There are quite a few news stories about the kids. Whether you want a report in Wikipedia is really the question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NoRightTurn ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that Sasha and Malia are both clearly notable. Here's WP:BIO: A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. This seems to be pretty clearly fulfilled. Here's WP:GNG: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article. The gloss on "significant coverage" is "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material. GNG also seems to be clearly fulfilled in this case - there is a significant amount of media coverage of the Obama girls. The opposition to them having a page seems to be based on the idea that notability has to be earned through having legitimate accomplishments. This seems clearly wrong to me, and certainly isn't what any of our actual guidelines say. Notability is acquired by there being enough reliable information about a person to justify an article. This is clearly fulfilled in the case of the Obama girls, and so they should have their own articles. john k ( talk) 22:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me this isn't even a close case. As Wikipedia:Notability (people) says:
"That person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being their spouse, is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A)"
The "unless" here indisputably applies. There are dozens and dozens of articles focusing specifically on the president's children. There's more coverage of them than many many other people who are the subject of Wikipedia articles. The fact that they haven't accomplished anything independently of their father is totally irrelevant; notability isn't a reward for merit. The point is that they're the subject of intense public interest and widespread media coverage. It's absurd that there's not an article about them.
The opposition here seems to be based on squeamishness due to the idea that writing an article about them would violate their privacy. But I don't see how this has anything to do with notability. If it violates their privacy to have a short article about them, then it violates their privacy to have five paragraphs about them in a longer article. And frankly, it's hard to see how kids who've had dozens of articles written about them will be harmed by being the subject of a short Wikipedia article. Binarybits ( talk) 00:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
← Well, that makes two of you, but that doesn't make consensus. Tvoz/ talk 03:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Despite the sense of the editors on this page and at Talk: Malia Obama, once again this has been brought to yet another forum. Comments requested at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Malia Obama. Tvoz/ talk 09:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Part of Talk:Malia Obama was copied here, and there was a reply. I merged the reply back to a more-or-less appropriate place. Please do not randomly move parts of discussions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering why Cheney isn't in the distant relatives section. I mean, Obama even talked about that when he was running for President.-- Dark Charles ( talk) 21:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Distant relations: Lyndon Baines Johnson - unrelated
There is no direct blood relationship between LBJ and Obama; it is only by marriage and very distantly. LBJ's great-grandfather was George Washington Baines, whose brother was Joseph Benjamin Baines, whose son, Wilburn McCoy Baines ( known as McCoy or Coy Baines / Bains ) MARRIED Stella M. Bunch, whose great-grandfather was Nathaniel Bunch, Sr. born April 23, 1793, who was the great-great-great-great-great grandfather of Obama. Reference: pgs 133-134, A Family Album, by Rebekah Baines Johnson and Carroll County Arkansas Marriage Records Eastern District Brides Index 1869 - 1930:
(Book/Page - Groom - Age - Bride - Age - Date ) D-268 BAINS W.M. 39 BUNCH STELLA 17 11/12/1891
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.252.163 ( talk) 14:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:IG:
[...T]he use of galleries may be appropriate in Wikipedia articles where a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Images in a gallery should be suitably captioned to explain their relevance both to the article subject and to the theme of the gallery, and the gallery should be appropriately titled (unless the theme of the gallery is clear from the context of the article). Images in a gallery should be carefully selected, avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made. Just as we seek to ensure that the prose of an article is clear, precise and engaging, galleries should be similarly well-crafted. See 1750-1795 in fashion for an example of a good use of galleries.
IMO, the gallery currently in use illustrates stuff talked about in the article. To wit:
On CNN, Mark says that he's Jewish... 76.66.197.2 ( talk) 11:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I am not qualified to edit this article, but somebody needs to take a look at the following issues. Her name seems ambiguous and not well linked:
BTW, I haven't looked at history, but I imagine that there were lots of ugly deletion fights about this data. This article seems well-conceived and very nicely executed. Kudos to all you who worked on it. Jarhed ( talk) 06:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
With regard to Mark's wife, I think that the article could be stronger in correcting the alternately used name "Liu Zue Hua". Zue is not a word in Mandarin Pinyin as shown at zhongwen.com or more specifically (but slightly less usefully than manually searching) [4]. Any Mandarin speaker knows this of course but the website given is a reputable online source. My own experience with the language (am a student rather than a native speaker) and dictionaries at hand agree with this [5]. 58.96.94.12 ( talk) 17:03, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi there, I was not the one who created this 'theory' of relation, but I would like to point out that if Obama is related to McCain through a 13th century English king, that would mean he is related to all British royalty in one way or another, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.231.230 ( talk) 11:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Why does that redirect to this page? I found this 'Soetoro' thing when I was given a link to a youtube video which says he is 'Barry Soetoro', some sort of Anti-Christ apocalyptic figure. Why does it not direct to the step father? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.133.91.75 ( talk) 04:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Obama daughters' birth dates are nowhere to be found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.153.219.43 ( talk) 15:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Why is the tag under Obama Grandma saying :"Stanley Armour Dunham". it may be a prank or it may be a mistake. either way is not correct. so please fix it 71.99.92.124 ( talk) 05:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}} There is a small problem in the ancestry charts. You have Obama's Mother as Stanley Ann Dunham instead of just Ann Dunham. Stanley is his Grandfather
173.2.38.122 ( talk) 01:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The article gives one reference that lists McCain as Obama's 22nd cousin, twice removed, and another that lists him as his 24th cousin, six times removed. Is there a discrepancy as to which one is correct, or is President Obama related to Senator McCain in both of these ways? 2tuntony ( talk) 05:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
actually both are true im a 4th cousin ob barack obama and i know that sometimes in-breeding does happin there is some inbreeding in my own family but not enough to make my a deformed mutant or anything my parents had less than 1% related to each other in the kelly family which was a family that lived in colonial america in the early 1700's. but finding a exact linage pointing to a relation to my mother or father was never found so theres only this very micro amount of shared blood because my mothers heritage only goes back to the mid 1800's so the idea of micro-scopic amounts of inbreeding in varius people is not really taboo any more. 69.208.14.63 ( talk) 19:03, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Why are we specifying "Ph.D." on several people in this article? I thought WP doesn't use honorifics unless that's how the name is most commonly known. - dcljr ( talk) 20:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, she has gotten taller - hardly notable that a teenager has had a growth spurt. But I haven't seen any argument to convince me that we should include anything about this child's physical appearance in a biography which certainly should be covered by the standards we apply to BLPs. Specifically - making the point about the so-called norm for teenage girls, based on the CDC reference, is clearly OR/synth, as it has no direct connection to Malia. The only thing we have are some very weak sources for an amorphous point - saying her height has been "reported" to be between 5'9 and 5'11 suggests there actually were reports, but all there really is is her father off-handedly saying she's 5'9. I suppose an argument could be made to include just that - her father's comment - if we had a decent source for it which the Daily Mail tabloid is the only one even close to, but I'm not advocating that and would argue against it. And I certainly do not consider some gossip columnist's estimate of her height, based solely on looking at a random photo of her with her mother, to be a report or anything reliable or citeable. And finally, the Guardian piece is basically some random teens saying "here's how I handled being a tall teenager". Not the stuff to source a biography. As for the section being about a dog, as was said in edit summary, I think that is a gross exaggeration, and if you have a problem with the dog being included, deal with that, don't load in gossip and the private matters of a teenager using the dog as an excuse. Tvoz/ talk 20:38, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Quite so. There ought to be a semblance of respect for privacy wrt to the children of notable people. It would be a sad day indeed if your local paper was reporting on the local 7th grade students as "Meanwhile down at Bletch Junior High Jimmy Jones seems to have grown a couple of inches, and Sam Davis has put on a few pounds, meanwhile Sally Oofar is getting breasts, and Janey Fitch seems to be anorexic ..." and if you don't think that local news should be doing that to local kids why would one think that WP should be doing it to the children of celebs? John lilburne ( talk) 12:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
he also has german heritage on his white mothers side of the family in addition to the colonial english and colonial irish. and theres possibility he has native american as well as the white appalchians usally married the native americans native to appalachia. also plus its possible his wife michelle also has native american heritage. we cannot exclude his german and native american origins. im a 4th cousin of barack obama and im displessed with how my cousins heritage is not including these groups. 69.208.14.63 ( talk) 18:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
I do not know much about the Presidents of the United States and their families, but is it true that Kennedy's two-day-old son who died in 1963 is more notable than the living 12-year-old daughter of the current President of the United States? The former has an article of his own, while the latter has a redirect. The Spy Who Came in from the Cold ( talk) 21:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree with John K. I cannot say anything for certain, but I highly doubt that Kennedy's two-day-old son who died in 1963 deserves an article more than Obama's daughter. I also can't understand the "living child" argument - what qualifies as a child? We have many articles about persons under 18 years of age (actors, princes, etc). I am not saying that the article(s) about his daughters should exist; I am saying that the article about a two-day-old baby who died 57 years ago should not exist. But if that article is not going to be deleted, then Obama's daughters certainly deserve their own article(s). The Spy Who Came in from the Cold ( talk) 16:36, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
To some of the discussion above, I would say this: There is little point in trying to find consistency on Wikipedia in terms of who is notable enough for an article. As mentioned above, it is not valid to say that because A has an article (or doesn't), B must (or must not) have an article. It would be nice if there could be some consistency, but without some sort of Board of Consistency imposing order on the situation, it isn't going to happen. With deletion of articles left to the messy AfD process, and policies or guidelines like "otherstuffexists", it isn't going to happen. I'd also say that there is especially no point in trying to compare the notability requirements for an article on a member of the British Royal Family with the requirements applicable to (almost) anyone else -- maybe members of some other royal families, but most of them are intertwined with the British Royal Family anyway. Forget about Prince William, he actually is notable. But take a look at Line of succession to the British throne and see all the blue links. We have articles on dozens and dozens of people for no other reason than that they are descended from King George V or his father, Edward VII, or others up the family tree. Even Prince Harry is notable, in my opinion, if for no other reason than he is third in line to the throne. But what about his two-year-old first cousin, James, Viscount Severn, eighth in line, and James' six-year-old sister, Lady Louise Windsor? Why do they have articles? Moreover, what do you think would happen if you did an AfD for them? In my estimation, all heck would break loose. And why? Because for them, like it or not, "notability" apparently is inherited. If someone wants to test the limits of how far this goes, I would suggest (but I will not actually nominate, myself) Lady Alexandra Etherington for an AfD. She is a 51-year-old woman who is apparently 61st in line for the throne. She is apparently a third cousin of the aforementioned William, Harry, James and Louise. The only thing mentioned in her article that she's ever done in her entire life is that she was a godmother for Lady Louise. So, if anyone wants to mess with the British Royal Family articles, be my guest. I'll be sitting on the sidelines watching the show and eating popcorn. Neutron ( talk) 23:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC) Oh and I just wanted to mention one more: Lady Cosima Windsor, who is three months old and is not even a grandchild of the Queen. (She seems to be a grandchild of one of the Queen's cousins.) One might assume that at three months, she has yet to do anything notable other than to simply be born, and be 21st in line for the throne. And yet she has an article, consisting of three sentences, all of which mention her family members. Sounds like inherited notability to me. Neutron ( talk) 23:22, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
There is a link here that lists the year of his Barack Obama's half brother David as 1967 and his death in 1987, worth putting up. http://www.geditcom.com/samples/Obamas/INDIs/II89.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarheal ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
There should be a separate section on Soetoro and his family, since he did raise Obama, and was a stepfather, if there's enough information to build it. 65.95.13.213 ( talk) 07:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Why no D.O.B. or even a birth year for Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.96.106 ( talk) 22:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
I think its worth mentioning that Granny Sarah attended the independence celebrations of South Sudan - "11.45 am – President Omar al-Bashir has landed at the Juba International Airport and so has President Mwai Kibaki of Kenya. President Obama’s grandmother, Mama Sarah Obama has also arrived at the airport." (See: http://www.goss.org) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.40.1 ( talk) 21:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
link 71.182.241.200 ( talk) 21:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This story about Onyango Obama IS legitimate and in Greater Boston is widely reported on television (and radio), with photographs and analysis.
If Onyango Obama's sister Zeituni Obama has her own page her brother, Onyango Obama, should have a page written about him, also, since a number of the same issues apply (re: immigration laws (and additional issues in his case of being a 'threat to the public' from drunk driving, etc.). http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread746170/pg1 At least DISAMBIGUATION should appear because of http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Onyango_Obama_(1895-1979) http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1362299&srvc=home&position=emailed
MaynardClark ( talk) 12:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
"Onyango+Obama"+Uncle&qe=V2lraXBlZGlhICJPbnlhbmdvIE9iYW1hIiBVbmNsZQ&qesig=jbSTBS8wyNJ-RN-u7ueXxQ&pkc=AFgZ2tn1DN7k4jSG-JFBtWPc10FnlWnchFezhw0Y061whq3goUAvVXBo0eDbtANfhJY3OOl2ymBdFMFJJQN1OHZ5qpA6l1sClA&pq="onyango+obama"+uncle&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS434US434&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Wikipedia+"Onyango+Obama"+Uncle&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=1&ion=1&biw=1600&bih=732&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&cad=b| Google Search for - Wikipedia "Onyango Obama" uncle MaynardClark 12:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I would favor also a page for Margaret W. Wong, the immigration attorney representing Onyango Obama, who has quite a practice in Cleveland and who had successfully represented Zeituni Obama in her extended case. MaynardClark ( talk)
Michelle Obama's maternal great-great-great grandmother, Melvinia Shields, became pregnant by a white man named Charles Marion Shields who is of English and Irish descent and is believed to be related to Barack Obama's mother considering as Barack and Michelle Obama are distant relatives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.206.171.184 ( talk) 12:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Guys, I am appalled that the Obamas are listed as the first first family of African heritage. Clearly, the Jeffersons, descended from Thomas Jefferson, were the first. That Thomas Jefferson did not marry his slave mistress does not negate the fact that he had children by her, and I imagine there were a number of other presidents who did the same. I say this not to take away from the Obamas but to avoid glossing over the moral travesties of United States history. If we idealize the founders of the country, we do a disservice to them and to students of history.
24.254.85.2 ( talk) 20:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
can anyone add that hhe is realted to sarah palin and rush limbaugh plz hare are the link from legit websites
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/13/obama-and-palin-related-w_n_760689.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guslb12 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
On this page, under a section titled "The Obama Family", it lists the Place of Origin as "Honolulu, Hawaii". I think this should be changed, considering the Obama's met in Chicago, IL. All the children were born and only Barack Obama has been a resident of Hawaii. It seems appropriate to call Barack Obama's place of origin, Hawaii. It doesn't seem correct to call his family's place of origin that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.186.21 ( talk) 02:53, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Book by David Maraniss metioned in the London Telegraph-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 00:06, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
The George Obama book is out, here is the page with description and price !
http://books.simonandschuster.com/Homeland/George-Obama/9781439176184 Simon and Schuster Homeland An Extraordinary Story of Hope and Survival, By George Obama, with: Damien Lewis, with description, Price: $15.99, also available in Digital ebook
Stop this edit war and saying the book is not out. Telecine Guy 18:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Damien Lewis wrote the book about George Obama . So your claim is not correct. Telecine Guy 20:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Someone created a separate page for Leona Belle McCurry; it has been up for more than a week and I don't see it ever being more than a stub as this person is only really notable as an ancestor of Barack Obama. I wish to merge Leona Belle McCurry back here with Family of Barack Obama. TuckerResearch ( talk) 18:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
With regard to ethnicity, I do not think it is correct that Barack Obama is African American. His accurate ethnicity should be Kenyan American, since his father was very clearly Kenyan while his mother was American. African American is a term which is reserved for a different concept of ethnicity, and comparatively, I'm not even sure what English American even means. The two terms are also not hierarchically analogous, when taken literally, since African American names a continent and then a country, while English American presumably names a subdivision of the UK and then a country. Kenyan, the father's ethnicity and American, the mother's ethnicity, are much more accurate and correct. Alternatively, Luo American is possible, but seem to be a bit hierarchically incompatible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyfrazier ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial," "mixed," "Kenyan-American," "mulatto," "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa," a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American." Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body.
Thank you for moving the discussion to the bottom of the page. As for the discussion, perhaps we can explore this thread a bit more first here, and attempt to arrive at some consensus prior to expanding into other areas. As for the question at hand, "what is ethnicity" needs to be answered, and as for my understanding, it has nothing to do with how Barack Obama Jr. identifies himself. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't ethnicity derive explicitly from the bloodline of the mother and the father. I don't think it is really a matter of interpretation or debate, other than to determine what was the ethnicity of the biological mother and biological father. So, comparatively, if I had a daughter (or two daughters for that matter of fact: Wafari and Muthoni Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:04, 15 October 2012 (UTC)) with a Kenyan woman, and my ethnicity is American, wouldn't my daughter's also be considered Kenyan-American OR American-Kenya regardless of whether they grew up in Germany, Kenya or any other place in the world. I do not believe this is subject to my daughters personal experience or their later interpretation, their ethnicity is explicitly what their mother and myself have given to them. Now I am guessing, the counter-argment to this will be that since Barack's father had very little direct influence on his son's upbringing, then as a result, culturally, none of the Kenyan ethnicity had passed to his son, in the same manner as would have occurred with a typical Luo, Kikuyu, Asante, Fante or one of the many other tribal affiliations from across the African continent. Alternatively, Barack then identified himself as an African-American within the context of the African-American cultural group. I have to ask the question, what if Barack Sr. had been unknown to some date in time after Barack Jr. had been born, and then later he went in search of his son, in order to establish his biological paternity of his son. Once a court took DNA from the mother and father and the son, and then determined his ethnicity, what do you think it would be recorded as? Kenyan-American or alternatively American-Kenyan. Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:55, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
and additionally, I do not see any support for use of the term English-American, since Obama's mother was simply American Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:58, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
black is not an ethnicity, you're entirely missing the point Tyfrazier ( talk) 16:40, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I see no support anywhere, that a person is able to define their own ethnicity. Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:41, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Would you please provide a more explicit the link to FAQ #2, I follow the link you provided but cannot find your reference. I would agree with you both regarding religious affiliation and sexual orientation both being self ascribed, but I do not believe ethnicity to be the same. It would likely be a matter of debate, which I assume could be resolved by an expert, perhaps someone who has a doctorate in ethnography or a similar type of cultural or social science. Community consensus on the matter could very well be incorrect, due to whatever political winds are blowing on that given day. I still find it hard to believe that the ethnicity of a person could change throughout the course of their life. Tyfrazier ( talk) 18:22, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the link to FAQ#2. In the FAQ#2, there is a link to race, when in fact I believe it should reference ethnicity. And we have indeed beaten a dead horse, but I would suggest this debate move to the wiki page for the term ethnicity, and a census considered by experts in that area to arrive at a definitive answer. Tyfrazier ( talk) 19:01, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
soil
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).radaronline.com
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
As one can tell from some recent edits, Barack Obama's half brother George was recently arrested in his home on charges (which he denies) of possessing marijuana. He was also accused of resisting arrest. In general we do not cover arrests of non-notable people, for WP:BLP reasons. Claims of resisting arrest, if not proven, are particularly unreliable. Overall, a high proportion of the world population has an arrest record for one thing or another. We don't cover every arrest of every person in their bio, it has to actually be relevant to something. This is an extremely minor criminal incident that would have no notability except that the person involved is an estranged overseas relative of a U.S. President, so covering it here is a bit tabloid-ish. Newspapers cover it because it is news. But we are an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. For a number of reasons I believe it is premature, unencyclopedic, and a BLP violation, to mention that in this article. I am therefore deleting the section. We can discuss here and explore the matter more fully. In the next few days, weeks, and months, we might learn if this truly becomes an issue that attracts a lot of coverage, or it is simply the minor news of the day. Wikidemon ( talk) 00:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
What, exactly, is your justification for deleting this verifiable and newsworthy information, other than your subjective opinion that it is "tabloid-ish" and an "extremely minor" offense? If George Obama is important enough to be listed in this article -- complete with biographical background and personal information about his living conditions, then I can think of no persuasive reason for why this shouldn't be included, either. It is debatable whether George is a NPF (I would maintain that his blood relation to the President of the United States, combined with both the spate of public interviews he has granted, his appearance in President Obama's best-selling autobiography, and a high-profile, pre-election CNN piece about him, precludes that designation). Regardless, even assuming arguendo that George could be classified an NPF, there would still be no reason to exclude the fact of his arrest, as it is relevant to his notability (i.e., he's notable because he's the President's brother, and it's notable when the President's brother gets arrested...ergo, it's notable that George Obama was arrested).- PassionoftheDamon ( talk) 16:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I added Malia & Sasha's ages & birthdates, and "Baseball Bugs" removed them, citing that there had been both a discussion about it and that a consensus decision was reached to not include their ages and birthdates. I can find no such discussion nor evidence of any consensus decision about it. All I could find was a conversation about which year Malia was born. Is there any reason their dates of birth should not be included? The president & his wife have freely discussed with the press celebrating their daughters' birthdays on multiple occasions. Ajlipp ( talk) 01:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Here is the discussion - it has been archived, so any further discussion would be on Talk: Barack Obama, but consensus was as BB said - for privacy reasons we shouldn't be including the exact dates of the children. Tvoz/ talk 19:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
This article is surreal. ja fiswa imċappas bil-hara! ( talk) 04:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
In this news article, it mentions that Barack Obama, Sr. was the second born son of his father's eight sons and this news article mentions that Obama, Sr. had an elder brother named Joseph that left school in 1951. Yet Joseph is omitted completely from Dreams from My Father. Cladeal832 ( talk) 19:20, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
the text part:
should be placed before the text part:
then theere will be the correct order :
grand grand-grandfather, grand-grandfather, grandfather, father
Axelwa ( talk) 10:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
About this photo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barack_Obama%27s_Kenyan_relatives.jpg It was probably taken on Barack's first trip to Kenya. The taking of the picture is mentioned in the Epilogue of Dreams from My Father. The 'unidentified woman' embracing Abongo (Roy) Obama may very well be his then girlfriend, Amy. She is introduced in Chapter 17. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frollo ( talk • contribs) 07:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
"They will be the youngest residents of the White House since Amy Carter arrived at age nine in 1977." That's a silly statement since Natasha is 7 years old. She should be the youngest since a Kennedy I think.-- Appraiser ( talk) 16:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
In light of john k's extensive research, and apparent assent to his arguments, I've added a separate Malia Ann Obama page. I think a Sasha Obama page would be called for as well. Binarybits ( talk) 21:18, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
← Sorry, but you don't have consensus for this change - perhaps you want to bring up an RFC for more opinions, but I'm reverting based on the comments above. Tvoz/ talk 03:51, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
On one hand such distant genealogical relationships, as supported by WP:RS, have received no small amount of news coverage and commentary. On the other, the chart, for example, delineating the relationship between Obama and Queen Elizabeth II (actually, Prince Charles, making the number of generations shown on each side equal) could be composed for a substantial portion of the population of the United States (pending the proper research involved being done first, of course). What does everyone think? ↜Just M E here , now 00:43, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
Could someone familiar with the family of Barack Obama, and preferably with the book Dreams from my Father, please confirm or correct my suspicion that this edit is incorrect.- gadfium 01:38, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Impactplayer contributed
Michelle's earliest known relative is her maternal side is her great-great-great grandfather Peter Jumper, born in the 1700s with a family line that would extend from rural Georgia, to Birmingham, Alabama. On her paternal side its Jim Robinson who was an American slave on the Friendfield plantation in South Carolina. The family believes that after the Civil War he remained a Friendfield plantation sharecropper for the rest of his life and that he was buried there in an unmarked grave. (Referenced to NYTimes article)
-- which was reverted. I am posting it here in hopes something from it can possibly be salvaged. ↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 02:11, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The photo couldn't possibly have been dated 1960. Michelle Obama is an infant in the photo. She was born in January 1964. The photo was almost certainly taken in 1964, based on the apparent age of baby Michelle (less than one year old). I'm changing it, but posting here in case anyone cares to discuss. Erie lhonan 18:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
I recently created a seperate article for Malia Obama, but it was steadfastly reverted due to and based on a deletion discussion that was dated as May 2008. So, I wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether or not an article for Malia, or both Malia and Sasha would be appropriate now that their father has been elected, rather than just a candidate for the party's nomination when the first deletion of the article was discussed. Thanks. Gage ( talk) 13:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
The kids gave an interview to reporters then Obama said he shouldn't have allowed it. There are quite a few news stories about the kids. Whether you want a report in Wikipedia is really the question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NoRightTurn ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me that Sasha and Malia are both clearly notable. Here's WP:BIO: A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject. This seems to be pretty clearly fulfilled. Here's WP:GNG: If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article. The gloss on "significant coverage" is "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material. GNG also seems to be clearly fulfilled in this case - there is a significant amount of media coverage of the Obama girls. The opposition to them having a page seems to be based on the idea that notability has to be earned through having legitimate accomplishments. This seems clearly wrong to me, and certainly isn't what any of our actual guidelines say. Notability is acquired by there being enough reliable information about a person to justify an article. This is clearly fulfilled in the case of the Obama girls, and so they should have their own articles. john k ( talk) 22:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems to me this isn't even a close case. As Wikipedia:Notability (people) says:
"That person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being their spouse, is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A)"
The "unless" here indisputably applies. There are dozens and dozens of articles focusing specifically on the president's children. There's more coverage of them than many many other people who are the subject of Wikipedia articles. The fact that they haven't accomplished anything independently of their father is totally irrelevant; notability isn't a reward for merit. The point is that they're the subject of intense public interest and widespread media coverage. It's absurd that there's not an article about them.
The opposition here seems to be based on squeamishness due to the idea that writing an article about them would violate their privacy. But I don't see how this has anything to do with notability. If it violates their privacy to have a short article about them, then it violates their privacy to have five paragraphs about them in a longer article. And frankly, it's hard to see how kids who've had dozens of articles written about them will be harmed by being the subject of a short Wikipedia article. Binarybits ( talk) 00:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
← Well, that makes two of you, but that doesn't make consensus. Tvoz/ talk 03:48, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Despite the sense of the editors on this page and at Talk: Malia Obama, once again this has been brought to yet another forum. Comments requested at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Malia Obama. Tvoz/ talk 09:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Part of Talk:Malia Obama was copied here, and there was a reply. I merged the reply back to a more-or-less appropriate place. Please do not randomly move parts of discussions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 08:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I was wondering why Cheney isn't in the distant relatives section. I mean, Obama even talked about that when he was running for President.-- Dark Charles ( talk) 21:49, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Distant relations: Lyndon Baines Johnson - unrelated
There is no direct blood relationship between LBJ and Obama; it is only by marriage and very distantly. LBJ's great-grandfather was George Washington Baines, whose brother was Joseph Benjamin Baines, whose son, Wilburn McCoy Baines ( known as McCoy or Coy Baines / Bains ) MARRIED Stella M. Bunch, whose great-grandfather was Nathaniel Bunch, Sr. born April 23, 1793, who was the great-great-great-great-great grandfather of Obama. Reference: pgs 133-134, A Family Album, by Rebekah Baines Johnson and Carroll County Arkansas Marriage Records Eastern District Brides Index 1869 - 1930:
(Book/Page - Groom - Age - Bride - Age - Date ) D-268 BAINS W.M. 39 BUNCH STELLA 17 11/12/1891
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.252.163 ( talk) 14:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:IG:
[...T]he use of galleries may be appropriate in Wikipedia articles where a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images. The images in the gallery collectively must have encyclopedic value and add to the reader's understanding of the subject. Images in a gallery should be suitably captioned to explain their relevance both to the article subject and to the theme of the gallery, and the gallery should be appropriately titled (unless the theme of the gallery is clear from the context of the article). Images in a gallery should be carefully selected, avoiding similar or repetitive images, unless a point of contrast or comparison is being made. Just as we seek to ensure that the prose of an article is clear, precise and engaging, galleries should be similarly well-crafted. See 1750-1795 in fashion for an example of a good use of galleries.
IMO, the gallery currently in use illustrates stuff talked about in the article. To wit:
On CNN, Mark says that he's Jewish... 76.66.197.2 ( talk) 11:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I am not qualified to edit this article, but somebody needs to take a look at the following issues. Her name seems ambiguous and not well linked:
BTW, I haven't looked at history, but I imagine that there were lots of ugly deletion fights about this data. This article seems well-conceived and very nicely executed. Kudos to all you who worked on it. Jarhed ( talk) 06:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
With regard to Mark's wife, I think that the article could be stronger in correcting the alternately used name "Liu Zue Hua". Zue is not a word in Mandarin Pinyin as shown at zhongwen.com or more specifically (but slightly less usefully than manually searching) [4]. Any Mandarin speaker knows this of course but the website given is a reputable online source. My own experience with the language (am a student rather than a native speaker) and dictionaries at hand agree with this [5]. 58.96.94.12 ( talk) 17:03, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
Hi there, I was not the one who created this 'theory' of relation, but I would like to point out that if Obama is related to McCain through a 13th century English king, that would mean he is related to all British royalty in one way or another, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.231.230 ( talk) 11:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Why does that redirect to this page? I found this 'Soetoro' thing when I was given a link to a youtube video which says he is 'Barry Soetoro', some sort of Anti-Christ apocalyptic figure. Why does it not direct to the step father? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.133.91.75 ( talk) 04:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Obama daughters' birth dates are nowhere to be found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.153.219.43 ( talk) 15:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Why is the tag under Obama Grandma saying :"Stanley Armour Dunham". it may be a prank or it may be a mistake. either way is not correct. so please fix it 71.99.92.124 ( talk) 05:07, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}} There is a small problem in the ancestry charts. You have Obama's Mother as Stanley Ann Dunham instead of just Ann Dunham. Stanley is his Grandfather
173.2.38.122 ( talk) 01:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The article gives one reference that lists McCain as Obama's 22nd cousin, twice removed, and another that lists him as his 24th cousin, six times removed. Is there a discrepancy as to which one is correct, or is President Obama related to Senator McCain in both of these ways? 2tuntony ( talk) 05:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
actually both are true im a 4th cousin ob barack obama and i know that sometimes in-breeding does happin there is some inbreeding in my own family but not enough to make my a deformed mutant or anything my parents had less than 1% related to each other in the kelly family which was a family that lived in colonial america in the early 1700's. but finding a exact linage pointing to a relation to my mother or father was never found so theres only this very micro amount of shared blood because my mothers heritage only goes back to the mid 1800's so the idea of micro-scopic amounts of inbreeding in varius people is not really taboo any more. 69.208.14.63 ( talk) 19:03, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
Why are we specifying "Ph.D." on several people in this article? I thought WP doesn't use honorifics unless that's how the name is most commonly known. - dcljr ( talk) 20:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, she has gotten taller - hardly notable that a teenager has had a growth spurt. But I haven't seen any argument to convince me that we should include anything about this child's physical appearance in a biography which certainly should be covered by the standards we apply to BLPs. Specifically - making the point about the so-called norm for teenage girls, based on the CDC reference, is clearly OR/synth, as it has no direct connection to Malia. The only thing we have are some very weak sources for an amorphous point - saying her height has been "reported" to be between 5'9 and 5'11 suggests there actually were reports, but all there really is is her father off-handedly saying she's 5'9. I suppose an argument could be made to include just that - her father's comment - if we had a decent source for it which the Daily Mail tabloid is the only one even close to, but I'm not advocating that and would argue against it. And I certainly do not consider some gossip columnist's estimate of her height, based solely on looking at a random photo of her with her mother, to be a report or anything reliable or citeable. And finally, the Guardian piece is basically some random teens saying "here's how I handled being a tall teenager". Not the stuff to source a biography. As for the section being about a dog, as was said in edit summary, I think that is a gross exaggeration, and if you have a problem with the dog being included, deal with that, don't load in gossip and the private matters of a teenager using the dog as an excuse. Tvoz/ talk 20:38, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Quite so. There ought to be a semblance of respect for privacy wrt to the children of notable people. It would be a sad day indeed if your local paper was reporting on the local 7th grade students as "Meanwhile down at Bletch Junior High Jimmy Jones seems to have grown a couple of inches, and Sam Davis has put on a few pounds, meanwhile Sally Oofar is getting breasts, and Janey Fitch seems to be anorexic ..." and if you don't think that local news should be doing that to local kids why would one think that WP should be doing it to the children of celebs? John lilburne ( talk) 12:00, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
he also has german heritage on his white mothers side of the family in addition to the colonial english and colonial irish. and theres possibility he has native american as well as the white appalchians usally married the native americans native to appalachia. also plus its possible his wife michelle also has native american heritage. we cannot exclude his german and native american origins. im a 4th cousin of barack obama and im displessed with how my cousins heritage is not including these groups. 69.208.14.63 ( talk) 18:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
I do not know much about the Presidents of the United States and their families, but is it true that Kennedy's two-day-old son who died in 1963 is more notable than the living 12-year-old daughter of the current President of the United States? The former has an article of his own, while the latter has a redirect. The Spy Who Came in from the Cold ( talk) 21:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I agree with John K. I cannot say anything for certain, but I highly doubt that Kennedy's two-day-old son who died in 1963 deserves an article more than Obama's daughter. I also can't understand the "living child" argument - what qualifies as a child? We have many articles about persons under 18 years of age (actors, princes, etc). I am not saying that the article(s) about his daughters should exist; I am saying that the article about a two-day-old baby who died 57 years ago should not exist. But if that article is not going to be deleted, then Obama's daughters certainly deserve their own article(s). The Spy Who Came in from the Cold ( talk) 16:36, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
To some of the discussion above, I would say this: There is little point in trying to find consistency on Wikipedia in terms of who is notable enough for an article. As mentioned above, it is not valid to say that because A has an article (or doesn't), B must (or must not) have an article. It would be nice if there could be some consistency, but without some sort of Board of Consistency imposing order on the situation, it isn't going to happen. With deletion of articles left to the messy AfD process, and policies or guidelines like "otherstuffexists", it isn't going to happen. I'd also say that there is especially no point in trying to compare the notability requirements for an article on a member of the British Royal Family with the requirements applicable to (almost) anyone else -- maybe members of some other royal families, but most of them are intertwined with the British Royal Family anyway. Forget about Prince William, he actually is notable. But take a look at Line of succession to the British throne and see all the blue links. We have articles on dozens and dozens of people for no other reason than that they are descended from King George V or his father, Edward VII, or others up the family tree. Even Prince Harry is notable, in my opinion, if for no other reason than he is third in line to the throne. But what about his two-year-old first cousin, James, Viscount Severn, eighth in line, and James' six-year-old sister, Lady Louise Windsor? Why do they have articles? Moreover, what do you think would happen if you did an AfD for them? In my estimation, all heck would break loose. And why? Because for them, like it or not, "notability" apparently is inherited. If someone wants to test the limits of how far this goes, I would suggest (but I will not actually nominate, myself) Lady Alexandra Etherington for an AfD. She is a 51-year-old woman who is apparently 61st in line for the throne. She is apparently a third cousin of the aforementioned William, Harry, James and Louise. The only thing mentioned in her article that she's ever done in her entire life is that she was a godmother for Lady Louise. So, if anyone wants to mess with the British Royal Family articles, be my guest. I'll be sitting on the sidelines watching the show and eating popcorn. Neutron ( talk) 23:09, 30 August 2010 (UTC) Oh and I just wanted to mention one more: Lady Cosima Windsor, who is three months old and is not even a grandchild of the Queen. (She seems to be a grandchild of one of the Queen's cousins.) One might assume that at three months, she has yet to do anything notable other than to simply be born, and be 21st in line for the throne. And yet she has an article, consisting of three sentences, all of which mention her family members. Sounds like inherited notability to me. Neutron ( talk) 23:22, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
There is a link here that lists the year of his Barack Obama's half brother David as 1967 and his death in 1987, worth putting up. http://www.geditcom.com/samples/Obamas/INDIs/II89.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarheal ( talk • contribs) 23:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
There should be a separate section on Soetoro and his family, since he did raise Obama, and was a stepfather, if there's enough information to build it. 65.95.13.213 ( talk) 07:48, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Why no D.O.B. or even a birth year for Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.96.106 ( talk) 22:22, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
I think its worth mentioning that Granny Sarah attended the independence celebrations of South Sudan - "11.45 am – President Omar al-Bashir has landed at the Juba International Airport and so has President Mwai Kibaki of Kenya. President Obama’s grandmother, Mama Sarah Obama has also arrived at the airport." (See: http://www.goss.org) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.203.40.1 ( talk) 21:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
link 71.182.241.200 ( talk) 21:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
This story about Onyango Obama IS legitimate and in Greater Boston is widely reported on television (and radio), with photographs and analysis.
If Onyango Obama's sister Zeituni Obama has her own page her brother, Onyango Obama, should have a page written about him, also, since a number of the same issues apply (re: immigration laws (and additional issues in his case of being a 'threat to the public' from drunk driving, etc.). http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread746170/pg1 At least DISAMBIGUATION should appear because of http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Onyango_Obama_(1895-1979) http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid=1362299&srvc=home&position=emailed
MaynardClark ( talk) 12:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
"Onyango+Obama"+Uncle&qe=V2lraXBlZGlhICJPbnlhbmdvIE9iYW1hIiBVbmNsZQ&qesig=jbSTBS8wyNJ-RN-u7ueXxQ&pkc=AFgZ2tn1DN7k4jSG-JFBtWPc10FnlWnchFezhw0Y061whq3goUAvVXBo0eDbtANfhJY3OOl2ymBdFMFJJQN1OHZ5qpA6l1sClA&pq="onyango+obama"+uncle&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=active&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS434US434&nord=1&site=webhp&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=Wikipedia+"Onyango+Obama"+Uncle&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&fp=1&ion=1&biw=1600&bih=732&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&cad=b| Google Search for - Wikipedia "Onyango Obama" uncle MaynardClark 12:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I would favor also a page for Margaret W. Wong, the immigration attorney representing Onyango Obama, who has quite a practice in Cleveland and who had successfully represented Zeituni Obama in her extended case. MaynardClark ( talk)
Michelle Obama's maternal great-great-great grandmother, Melvinia Shields, became pregnant by a white man named Charles Marion Shields who is of English and Irish descent and is believed to be related to Barack Obama's mother considering as Barack and Michelle Obama are distant relatives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.206.171.184 ( talk) 12:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Guys, I am appalled that the Obamas are listed as the first first family of African heritage. Clearly, the Jeffersons, descended from Thomas Jefferson, were the first. That Thomas Jefferson did not marry his slave mistress does not negate the fact that he had children by her, and I imagine there were a number of other presidents who did the same. I say this not to take away from the Obamas but to avoid glossing over the moral travesties of United States history. If we idealize the founders of the country, we do a disservice to them and to students of history.
24.254.85.2 ( talk) 20:06, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
can anyone add that hhe is realted to sarah palin and rush limbaugh plz hare are the link from legit websites
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/13/obama-and-palin-related-w_n_760689.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guslb12 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
On this page, under a section titled "The Obama Family", it lists the Place of Origin as "Honolulu, Hawaii". I think this should be changed, considering the Obama's met in Chicago, IL. All the children were born and only Barack Obama has been a resident of Hawaii. It seems appropriate to call Barack Obama's place of origin, Hawaii. It doesn't seem correct to call his family's place of origin that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.50.186.21 ( talk) 02:53, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
Book by David Maraniss metioned in the London Telegraph-- Hodgdon's secret garden ( talk) 00:06, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
The George Obama book is out, here is the page with description and price !
http://books.simonandschuster.com/Homeland/George-Obama/9781439176184 Simon and Schuster Homeland An Extraordinary Story of Hope and Survival, By George Obama, with: Damien Lewis, with description, Price: $15.99, also available in Digital ebook
Stop this edit war and saying the book is not out. Telecine Guy 18:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Damien Lewis wrote the book about George Obama . So your claim is not correct. Telecine Guy 20:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Someone created a separate page for Leona Belle McCurry; it has been up for more than a week and I don't see it ever being more than a stub as this person is only really notable as an ancestor of Barack Obama. I wish to merge Leona Belle McCurry back here with Family of Barack Obama. TuckerResearch ( talk) 18:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
With regard to ethnicity, I do not think it is correct that Barack Obama is African American. His accurate ethnicity should be Kenyan American, since his father was very clearly Kenyan while his mother was American. African American is a term which is reserved for a different concept of ethnicity, and comparatively, I'm not even sure what English American even means. The two terms are also not hierarchically analogous, when taken literally, since African American names a continent and then a country, while English American presumably names a subdivision of the UK and then a country. Kenyan, the father's ethnicity and American, the mother's ethnicity, are much more accurate and correct. Alternatively, Luo American is possible, but seem to be a bit hierarchically incompatible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyfrazier ( talk • contribs) 19:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Q2: The article refers to him as African American, but his mother is white and his black father was not an American. Should he be called African American, or something else ("biracial," "mixed," "Kenyan-American," "mulatto," "quadroon", etc.)?
A2: Obama himself and the media identify him, the vast majority of the time, as African American or black. African American is primarily defined as "citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa," a statement that accurately describes Obama and does not preclude or negate origins in the white populations of America as well. Thus we use the term African American in the introduction, and address the specifics of his parentage in the first headed section of the article. Many individuals who identify as black have varieties of ancestors from many countries who may identify with other racial or ethnic groups. See our article on race for more information on this concept. We could call him the first "biracial" candidate or the first "half black half white" candidate or the first candidate with a parent born in Africa, but Wikipedia is a tertiary source which reports what other reliable sources say, and most of those other sources say "first African American." Readers will learn more detail about his ethnic background in the article body.
Thank you for moving the discussion to the bottom of the page. As for the discussion, perhaps we can explore this thread a bit more first here, and attempt to arrive at some consensus prior to expanding into other areas. As for the question at hand, "what is ethnicity" needs to be answered, and as for my understanding, it has nothing to do with how Barack Obama Jr. identifies himself. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't ethnicity derive explicitly from the bloodline of the mother and the father. I don't think it is really a matter of interpretation or debate, other than to determine what was the ethnicity of the biological mother and biological father. So, comparatively, if I had a daughter (or two daughters for that matter of fact: Wafari and Muthoni Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:04, 15 October 2012 (UTC)) with a Kenyan woman, and my ethnicity is American, wouldn't my daughter's also be considered Kenyan-American OR American-Kenya regardless of whether they grew up in Germany, Kenya or any other place in the world. I do not believe this is subject to my daughters personal experience or their later interpretation, their ethnicity is explicitly what their mother and myself have given to them. Now I am guessing, the counter-argment to this will be that since Barack's father had very little direct influence on his son's upbringing, then as a result, culturally, none of the Kenyan ethnicity had passed to his son, in the same manner as would have occurred with a typical Luo, Kikuyu, Asante, Fante or one of the many other tribal affiliations from across the African continent. Alternatively, Barack then identified himself as an African-American within the context of the African-American cultural group. I have to ask the question, what if Barack Sr. had been unknown to some date in time after Barack Jr. had been born, and then later he went in search of his son, in order to establish his biological paternity of his son. Once a court took DNA from the mother and father and the son, and then determined his ethnicity, what do you think it would be recorded as? Kenyan-American or alternatively American-Kenyan. Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:55, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
and additionally, I do not see any support for use of the term English-American, since Obama's mother was simply American Tyfrazier ( talk) 15:58, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
black is not an ethnicity, you're entirely missing the point Tyfrazier ( talk) 16:40, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I see no support anywhere, that a person is able to define their own ethnicity. Tyfrazier ( talk) 17:41, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Would you please provide a more explicit the link to FAQ #2, I follow the link you provided but cannot find your reference. I would agree with you both regarding religious affiliation and sexual orientation both being self ascribed, but I do not believe ethnicity to be the same. It would likely be a matter of debate, which I assume could be resolved by an expert, perhaps someone who has a doctorate in ethnography or a similar type of cultural or social science. Community consensus on the matter could very well be incorrect, due to whatever political winds are blowing on that given day. I still find it hard to believe that the ethnicity of a person could change throughout the course of their life. Tyfrazier ( talk) 18:22, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for the link to FAQ#2. In the FAQ#2, there is a link to race, when in fact I believe it should reference ethnicity. And we have indeed beaten a dead horse, but I would suggest this debate move to the wiki page for the term ethnicity, and a census considered by experts in that area to arrive at a definitive answer. Tyfrazier ( talk) 19:01, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
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