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Archive 1 |
As the first sentence of the article makes clear, this is not a synonym for media bias, it is a description of one particular media bias. The charge that it is a neologism is also quite false. As the merge proposal seems to be based on so many false assumptions, I intend to remove it in two days time, if there is no discussion of it before then. -- Antaeus Feldspar 04:42, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know where the examples of the inventor and Holocaust denial as "false balance" come from. I'm not disputing either case, I just would like to know where they were called "false balance," since it wasn't in the external link. I don't need a detailed citation, just a comment.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish the specific criticisms levelled at "media bias" from those against "false balance." It all comes down to reporting or not reporting things contrary to the reader's preference. In any case, I've added some relevant material at media bias#Efforts to correct bias. Gazpacho 02:58, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I take issue with this para, which conflates skeptic with denialist
"First, this article puts scientists against skeptics, as though both are on equal grounds of knowledge, when in reality the scientists (even in 1992) have far more reason to believe that humanity is causing temperatures to rise than skeptics have to disagree. Additionally, putting “global warming” in scare quotes implies that the phrase is lacking in legitimacy"
Bpdlr ( talk) 22:38, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I think the above article should be merged into this one. It seems to be another name for the same phenomenon: taking an 'objective' stance by presenting two points of view as of equal merit, when in reality they are not. 'False balance' seems to be a more common name for it than 'View from Nowhere'. That article is also less developed than this one. Robofish ( talk) 21:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
The History section describes the term "false balance" meaning an inaccurately calibrated scale. This is not closely related to the subject of the article, the two phrases just happen to be homonyms. Consequently I have deleted the section. 129.199.99.140 ( talk) 13:09, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Should this be included? I think not. It is cited here as being a common false balance. This isn't true. Theres not a single fact about the beginning of the earth, universe or life. Any theory is just as likely as another. And any evidence present for any side of this issue is highly presumptuous. The so called facts of evolution and origin of the universe are at best estimates based upon other estimates. Theres no conclusive evidence showing any origin as true or false.
Why not create a blanket statement like: "False balance is often found in political reports, company press releases and general information from organisations with special interest groups in promoting their agenda." or something similar?
It might prevent people trying to add their sneaky biases to the page! :) (you know who you are!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.83.223 ( talk) 11:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above in that removing intelligent design makes sense. Surprised its been so long and no one has changed it yet... Adrieth ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Incidentally, you can sign your comments with four tilde signs in a row - it helps keep track of who said what.
ManicParroT 17:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Intelligent design fits completely within the definition of false balance. By the way, I would add to the definition of "false balance" that it is accepted as axiomatic that there are two (or more) equally correct and equally weighted sides to every argument. There is no logical reason that this should be true ("by virtue of an argument's existence at all, and only for that reason, it therefore follows that the argument has two or more equally correct points of view"). The insistence that an argument has two points of view because it is an argument is begging the question.
The issue is that intelligent design is being peddled as science, which, as WilyD above said, it is not. Intelligent design has no testable hypothesis (beyond "the universe was created by an intelligent designer," which is not testable), no observations (beyond The Bible, which is not a source of anything beyond some historical data), no experiments, no reproducible results, no conclusion beyond "evolution is not true" (which was never proven through any methodology), and cannot be used to predict potential future discoveries. And yet, intelligent design proponents demand that their theory -- which does not adhere in any way to the scientific method -- be treated equally with evolution, which has stood up to rigorous scrutiny utilizing the scientific method.
In fact, the statement above that "[a]ny theory is just as likely as another" is, in itself, an example of false balance. It is not equally likely that the sun revolves around the earth as it is that the earth revolves around the sun, for example. We have data that prove one theory and disprove the other. Unless we want to take this to reductio ad absurdum and claim that, since there is an asymptote at "Truth," there is never 100% certainty of anything, meaning that all theories are potentially invalid, and therefore this miniscule degree of uncertainty must cause us to believe in nothing.
Fitzador ( talk) 20:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
This article should be expanded beyond the Global Warming subsection. There are many other possible examples.-- Solomonfromfinland ( talk) 22:28, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Here's an excellent source for the Global warming section:
Here is the actual report from the BBC Trust:
Use of The Daily Telegraph, a secondary source, backed by the BBC Trust primary source, should be good enough as references. -- Brangifer ( talk) 18:05, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
As the first sentence of the article makes clear, this is not a synonym for media bias, it is a description of one particular media bias. The charge that it is a neologism is also quite false. As the merge proposal seems to be based on so many false assumptions, I intend to remove it in two days time, if there is no discussion of it before then. -- Antaeus Feldspar 04:42, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know where the examples of the inventor and Holocaust denial as "false balance" come from. I'm not disputing either case, I just would like to know where they were called "false balance," since it wasn't in the external link. I don't need a detailed citation, just a comment.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish the specific criticisms levelled at "media bias" from those against "false balance." It all comes down to reporting or not reporting things contrary to the reader's preference. In any case, I've added some relevant material at media bias#Efforts to correct bias. Gazpacho 02:58, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I take issue with this para, which conflates skeptic with denialist
"First, this article puts scientists against skeptics, as though both are on equal grounds of knowledge, when in reality the scientists (even in 1992) have far more reason to believe that humanity is causing temperatures to rise than skeptics have to disagree. Additionally, putting “global warming” in scare quotes implies that the phrase is lacking in legitimacy"
Bpdlr ( talk) 22:38, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I think the above article should be merged into this one. It seems to be another name for the same phenomenon: taking an 'objective' stance by presenting two points of view as of equal merit, when in reality they are not. 'False balance' seems to be a more common name for it than 'View from Nowhere'. That article is also less developed than this one. Robofish ( talk) 21:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
The History section describes the term "false balance" meaning an inaccurately calibrated scale. This is not closely related to the subject of the article, the two phrases just happen to be homonyms. Consequently I have deleted the section. 129.199.99.140 ( talk) 13:09, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Should this be included? I think not. It is cited here as being a common false balance. This isn't true. Theres not a single fact about the beginning of the earth, universe or life. Any theory is just as likely as another. And any evidence present for any side of this issue is highly presumptuous. The so called facts of evolution and origin of the universe are at best estimates based upon other estimates. Theres no conclusive evidence showing any origin as true or false.
Why not create a blanket statement like: "False balance is often found in political reports, company press releases and general information from organisations with special interest groups in promoting their agenda." or something similar?
It might prevent people trying to add their sneaky biases to the page! :) (you know who you are!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.83.223 ( talk) 11:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above in that removing intelligent design makes sense. Surprised its been so long and no one has changed it yet... Adrieth ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Incidentally, you can sign your comments with four tilde signs in a row - it helps keep track of who said what.
ManicParroT 17:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Intelligent design fits completely within the definition of false balance. By the way, I would add to the definition of "false balance" that it is accepted as axiomatic that there are two (or more) equally correct and equally weighted sides to every argument. There is no logical reason that this should be true ("by virtue of an argument's existence at all, and only for that reason, it therefore follows that the argument has two or more equally correct points of view"). The insistence that an argument has two points of view because it is an argument is begging the question.
The issue is that intelligent design is being peddled as science, which, as WilyD above said, it is not. Intelligent design has no testable hypothesis (beyond "the universe was created by an intelligent designer," which is not testable), no observations (beyond The Bible, which is not a source of anything beyond some historical data), no experiments, no reproducible results, no conclusion beyond "evolution is not true" (which was never proven through any methodology), and cannot be used to predict potential future discoveries. And yet, intelligent design proponents demand that their theory -- which does not adhere in any way to the scientific method -- be treated equally with evolution, which has stood up to rigorous scrutiny utilizing the scientific method.
In fact, the statement above that "[a]ny theory is just as likely as another" is, in itself, an example of false balance. It is not equally likely that the sun revolves around the earth as it is that the earth revolves around the sun, for example. We have data that prove one theory and disprove the other. Unless we want to take this to reductio ad absurdum and claim that, since there is an asymptote at "Truth," there is never 100% certainty of anything, meaning that all theories are potentially invalid, and therefore this miniscule degree of uncertainty must cause us to believe in nothing.
Fitzador ( talk) 20:17, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
This article should be expanded beyond the Global Warming subsection. There are many other possible examples.-- Solomonfromfinland ( talk) 22:28, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Here's an excellent source for the Global warming section:
Here is the actual report from the BBC Trust:
Use of The Daily Telegraph, a secondary source, backed by the BBC Trust primary source, should be good enough as references. -- Brangifer ( talk) 18:05, 6 July 2014 (UTC)