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Don't use an acronym or abbreviation without telling us what it stands for. Write for a lay audience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.41.7.58 ( talk) 19:56, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure "gluten grains are wheat, barley and rye free" should read either "gluten free grains are wheat, barley and rye free" or "gluten grains are wheat, barley and rye" (free omitted). I'm not sure which one is appropriate, else I'd go ahead and change it. Iridium191 ( talk) 01:05, 18 August 2014 (UT
The following sentence is a confusing mix of grains, a broadleaf seed, and one root, and products made from them. "Grains: wheat-free grains/wheat-free flours (gluten-free grains are free of wheat, barley and rye): bagels, breads, hot/cold cereals (corn flakes, cream of rice, grits, oats, etc.), crackers, noodles, pastas, quinoa, pancakes, pretzels, rice, tapioca, tortillas, waffles" I suggest the following (I am an Agronomist, not a medical/FODMAP expert) :
"Grains: Corn/maize, rice, oats (non gluten-free oats may have an occasional wheat kernel in the lot)
Seeds: Quinoa
Root crops: Manioc/cassava/yuca (tapioca)" Rick DeLoughery ( talk) 16:26, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
ONE: I am confused. Is this meant to be an article on the short-chain FODMAP carbohydrates or the FODMAP diet? It seems to be a mash-up of both topics.
a. If it's about the carbohydrate classification, then the diet stuff needs to be expunged. More information should be inserted on the chemistry and digestion of such carbs in humans as well as in other creatures who eat them. It's light on the science of the carbs (but don't go overboard - we want laypersons to understand what they are reading).
b. If it's about the diet, then "diet" should be added to the title and there should be information about the purpose of it - as a short-term trial with an initial elimination phase of about 6-8 weeks. This is followed by a challenge phase when foods are reintroduced in order for an irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) sufferer to discover what food intolerances are specifically causing their symptoms. It was never meant to be a long-term diet. Also, there are some variations in the FODMAP-ianism of some of the foods listed. Chocolate, for example. Monash University finds that dark chocolate at 30 grams is low-FODMAP while milk and white chocolate are moderate FODMAP levels. Carob powder is high. http://www.med.monash.edu.au/cecs/gastro/fodmap/diet-updates/chocolate.html. Another example is the cabbage group. Smooth-leaved, common cabbage is allowed in the diet up to a cup-full per sitting while some other cabbages are restricted to 1/4 cup due to the amount of fructans they contain. There may be other foods where their assessment differs from your sources. With various research institutions studying IBS and FODMAPs, there are bound to be different findings between them. If the result of one researcher is listed while others vary, then it should be mentioned that FODMAP assessment varies between researchers.
- This article makes the same mistake that a lot of people do. It is not gluten that causes IBS problems: gluten is protein. People with celiac disease cannot tolerate gluten, even to the point of death if left uncontrolled. By itself, people with IBS have no problem with gluten. It is the FODMAPs in wheat, rye, and barley that cause the problems, specifically the fructans, I believe. It is coincidental that foods high in gluten are also high in fructans. http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/fodmap/faq.html - item #4 http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/education/2013-public-lecture.html
- NOTE: On the Monash University link you provide, they offer a gratis downloadable FODMAP diet smart phone application: http://med.monash.edu.au/cecs/gastro/fodmap/
TWO: Odd sentence - "These include short chain (oligo-) saccharide polymers of fructose (fructans) and galactose (galactans), disaccharides (lactose), monosaccharides (fructose). . ." Can the authors please explain what appears to be inconsistencies/redundancies?
THREE: References 2 & 3 are the exact same source, please combine:
- 2-Gibson, PR; Peter R Gibson and Susan J Shepherd (2010). "Evidence-based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach". Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology 25 (2): 252–258. doi:10.1111/j.1440-1746.2009.06149.x. PMID 20136989
- 3-Gibson PR, Shepherd SJ (2010). "Evidence-based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach". Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology 25 (10): 252–258. doi:10.1111/j.1440-1746.2009.06149.x. PMID 20136989
FOUR: Reference 6. links to a medical practice that offers information, but also enthusiastically sells books. The "Shopping Cart" is there in the right-hand column of the homepage. This article from US News & World Report seems like a reliable replacement: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/eat-run/2012/08/28/ibs-could-be-the-fodmaps , as does this page from the University of North Carolina's Center for Functional GI & Motility Disorders: http://www.med.unc.edu/ibs/news/fats-fodmaps
Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 06:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
What is meant by "half and half"? 81.170.15.209 ( talk) 09:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
The notes in sub-headings as to which FODMAPS are mandatory and which discretionary is far from a mere "diet suggestion" but a significant elaboration of matters covered in the "absorption" section above. No-one need restrict fructose or lactose if a hospital test has not indicated intolerance. To do so is not beneficial and arguably detrimental because of the added difficulties of unnecessary further dietary restriction. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 13:36, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
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Simple introduction to the topic from diet angle from New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com/article/2152877-gluten-sensitive-it-may-actually-be-a-carb-making-you-ill/ I'd add this myself but I'm not using a device I can edit on properly. Please go ahead and add it if you think it suitable. 87.114.67.61 ( talk) 13:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)Istobe 87.114.67.61 ( talk) 13:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
What does "Depending on the choice of other foods consumed in the daily diet, cereals may be only relatively minor sources of FODMAPs" mean? If it means "if you don't eat much of x (in comparison to other things), it will be a minor source of something contained therein" surely that could equally be applied to any of the FODMAP-containing foods and is thus superfluous at best? Cereals' contribution is surely only dependent on the absolute amount of FODMAP-containing cereals one eats and the contribution of those in other foods is a separate matter. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 12:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Regarding underrepresented lactobacilli and bifidobacteria in affected individuals and a related dysbiosis. Low FODMAP diet may support regrow of bifidobacteria. But on the long term its requiered to re-include relevant FODMAP to the diet and just cancel grain parts such as wheat - opposite to oats without gluten resp. with beta glucanes and oatmeal gruel pro intestinal mucosa. As well sourdough barley. To support regrowing of a capable biodiversity in gut resp. to build up a immune sytem modulating eubiosis in general.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP#cite_note-6
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28416515/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6062106/#pone.0201410.ref016
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6062106/#sec005title
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5390324/#B23
https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.31.1_supplement.968.9
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5848117/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5848117/#B21-foods-07-00013
--
Dankedaniel (
talk)
13:39, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
It would appear that the FODMAP content of edible fungi varies substantially. Mushrooms, as a general group, are mentioned in sources as being high. Not sure if and how one would note an app as a source but, the "Food Guide" listing in the Monash University FODMAP Diet app for "Mushroom, oyster/hiratake, raw" is noted as "low in FODMAPs" for servings below "1kg/2.2 lbs". Above this large amount, there are "moderate amounts of the Polyol - Sorbitol and Mannitol". The "Fungus, white back black, dried" entry states that "only trace amounts of FODMAPs were detected in this food. Eat freely...". Possibly not suitable for use in the article but it would indicate that it can't be assumed fungus, in general, are high. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 17:30, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Don't use an acronym or abbreviation without telling us what it stands for. Write for a lay audience. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.41.7.58 ( talk) 19:56, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure "gluten grains are wheat, barley and rye free" should read either "gluten free grains are wheat, barley and rye free" or "gluten grains are wheat, barley and rye" (free omitted). I'm not sure which one is appropriate, else I'd go ahead and change it. Iridium191 ( talk) 01:05, 18 August 2014 (UT
The following sentence is a confusing mix of grains, a broadleaf seed, and one root, and products made from them. "Grains: wheat-free grains/wheat-free flours (gluten-free grains are free of wheat, barley and rye): bagels, breads, hot/cold cereals (corn flakes, cream of rice, grits, oats, etc.), crackers, noodles, pastas, quinoa, pancakes, pretzels, rice, tapioca, tortillas, waffles" I suggest the following (I am an Agronomist, not a medical/FODMAP expert) :
"Grains: Corn/maize, rice, oats (non gluten-free oats may have an occasional wheat kernel in the lot)
Seeds: Quinoa
Root crops: Manioc/cassava/yuca (tapioca)" Rick DeLoughery ( talk) 16:26, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
ONE: I am confused. Is this meant to be an article on the short-chain FODMAP carbohydrates or the FODMAP diet? It seems to be a mash-up of both topics.
a. If it's about the carbohydrate classification, then the diet stuff needs to be expunged. More information should be inserted on the chemistry and digestion of such carbs in humans as well as in other creatures who eat them. It's light on the science of the carbs (but don't go overboard - we want laypersons to understand what they are reading).
b. If it's about the diet, then "diet" should be added to the title and there should be information about the purpose of it - as a short-term trial with an initial elimination phase of about 6-8 weeks. This is followed by a challenge phase when foods are reintroduced in order for an irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) sufferer to discover what food intolerances are specifically causing their symptoms. It was never meant to be a long-term diet. Also, there are some variations in the FODMAP-ianism of some of the foods listed. Chocolate, for example. Monash University finds that dark chocolate at 30 grams is low-FODMAP while milk and white chocolate are moderate FODMAP levels. Carob powder is high. http://www.med.monash.edu.au/cecs/gastro/fodmap/diet-updates/chocolate.html. Another example is the cabbage group. Smooth-leaved, common cabbage is allowed in the diet up to a cup-full per sitting while some other cabbages are restricted to 1/4 cup due to the amount of fructans they contain. There may be other foods where their assessment differs from your sources. With various research institutions studying IBS and FODMAPs, there are bound to be different findings between them. If the result of one researcher is listed while others vary, then it should be mentioned that FODMAP assessment varies between researchers.
- This article makes the same mistake that a lot of people do. It is not gluten that causes IBS problems: gluten is protein. People with celiac disease cannot tolerate gluten, even to the point of death if left uncontrolled. By itself, people with IBS have no problem with gluten. It is the FODMAPs in wheat, rye, and barley that cause the problems, specifically the fructans, I believe. It is coincidental that foods high in gluten are also high in fructans. http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/fodmap/faq.html - item #4 http://www.med.monash.edu/cecs/gastro/education/2013-public-lecture.html
- NOTE: On the Monash University link you provide, they offer a gratis downloadable FODMAP diet smart phone application: http://med.monash.edu.au/cecs/gastro/fodmap/
TWO: Odd sentence - "These include short chain (oligo-) saccharide polymers of fructose (fructans) and galactose (galactans), disaccharides (lactose), monosaccharides (fructose). . ." Can the authors please explain what appears to be inconsistencies/redundancies?
THREE: References 2 & 3 are the exact same source, please combine:
- 2-Gibson, PR; Peter R Gibson and Susan J Shepherd (2010). "Evidence-based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach". Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology 25 (2): 252–258. doi:10.1111/j.1440-1746.2009.06149.x. PMID 20136989
- 3-Gibson PR, Shepherd SJ (2010). "Evidence-based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach". Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology 25 (10): 252–258. doi:10.1111/j.1440-1746.2009.06149.x. PMID 20136989
FOUR: Reference 6. links to a medical practice that offers information, but also enthusiastically sells books. The "Shopping Cart" is there in the right-hand column of the homepage. This article from US News & World Report seems like a reliable replacement: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/eat-run/2012/08/28/ibs-could-be-the-fodmaps , as does this page from the University of North Carolina's Center for Functional GI & Motility Disorders: http://www.med.unc.edu/ibs/news/fats-fodmaps
Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 06:30, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
What is meant by "half and half"? 81.170.15.209 ( talk) 09:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
The notes in sub-headings as to which FODMAPS are mandatory and which discretionary is far from a mere "diet suggestion" but a significant elaboration of matters covered in the "absorption" section above. No-one need restrict fructose or lactose if a hospital test has not indicated intolerance. To do so is not beneficial and arguably detrimental because of the added difficulties of unnecessary further dietary restriction. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 13:36, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on FODMAP. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:03, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Simple introduction to the topic from diet angle from New Scientist https://www.newscientist.com/article/2152877-gluten-sensitive-it-may-actually-be-a-carb-making-you-ill/ I'd add this myself but I'm not using a device I can edit on properly. Please go ahead and add it if you think it suitable. 87.114.67.61 ( talk) 13:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)Istobe 87.114.67.61 ( talk) 13:10, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
What does "Depending on the choice of other foods consumed in the daily diet, cereals may be only relatively minor sources of FODMAPs" mean? If it means "if you don't eat much of x (in comparison to other things), it will be a minor source of something contained therein" surely that could equally be applied to any of the FODMAP-containing foods and is thus superfluous at best? Cereals' contribution is surely only dependent on the absolute amount of FODMAP-containing cereals one eats and the contribution of those in other foods is a separate matter. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 12:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Regarding underrepresented lactobacilli and bifidobacteria in affected individuals and a related dysbiosis. Low FODMAP diet may support regrow of bifidobacteria. But on the long term its requiered to re-include relevant FODMAP to the diet and just cancel grain parts such as wheat - opposite to oats without gluten resp. with beta glucanes and oatmeal gruel pro intestinal mucosa. As well sourdough barley. To support regrowing of a capable biodiversity in gut resp. to build up a immune sytem modulating eubiosis in general.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP#cite_note-6
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28416515/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6062106/#pone.0201410.ref016
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6062106/#sec005title
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5390324/#B23
https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1096/fasebj.31.1_supplement.968.9
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5848117/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5848117/#B21-foods-07-00013
--
Dankedaniel (
talk)
13:39, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
It would appear that the FODMAP content of edible fungi varies substantially. Mushrooms, as a general group, are mentioned in sources as being high. Not sure if and how one would note an app as a source but, the "Food Guide" listing in the Monash University FODMAP Diet app for "Mushroom, oyster/hiratake, raw" is noted as "low in FODMAPs" for servings below "1kg/2.2 lbs". Above this large amount, there are "moderate amounts of the Polyol - Sorbitol and Mannitol". The "Fungus, white back black, dried" entry states that "only trace amounts of FODMAPs were detected in this food. Eat freely...". Possibly not suitable for use in the article but it would indicate that it can't be assumed fungus, in general, are high. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 17:30, 11 July 2023 (UTC)