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WikiProject Biography Assessment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 13:07, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A nice way to smear a man is to report rumors about him. Who was in the car observing Murnau before he died? The homosexual interest group had to include their little piece of gossip in order to have it appear that their preferred behavior is widespread and acceptable. Lestrade 12:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
So would the events leading up to the death be relevant (and non victim blamey) if it had been a woman giving head to a man? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.222.123.30 ( talk) 08:23, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Why is that stupid gossip still in the page? The book where you can find that "information" is full of stupid rumors and legends. Murnau is one of the most important film director of all times, who don't deserves this treatment. The sexuality of this person is not important, we can write a lot about murnau's filmography but someone thinks that his sexual life is more important. This page offends not only murnau, but wikipedia.
There isn't a logical and plausible way to demonstrate that Murnau was doing a fellatio on the car driver, this rumor probably born from the ancient (stupid and racist) mentality that all gay people are pedophilians. So i remove it.
Bobbore
The New York Times article (mar 12, 1931) clearly states that only Murnau was killed in this accident. His valet, Garcia Stevenson, identified in the article as E. Garcia, did NOT die.
Sdave —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.147.236.194 ( talk) 12:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
He was incredibly tall, which helps to explain why he died in the accident, having fracturated his skull. 85.243.17.173 ( talk) 15:56, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
"In films prior to The Last Laugh the camera was used solely as a stationary device, this feature was the first to incorporate techniques that involved camera movement, such as tracking shots, pans, tilts, and zooms." -- Anyone who has seen more than a few silent films knows that this is nonsense. All of these techniques were used well before TLL, tracking being particularly common. What makes TLL unique is the very advanced use of the techniques throughout the film, often to marked psychological effect.
The third paragraph of the 'German Films' section sounds like it was copied from the back of the DVD box. I think that it is too positive, words like carefully composed and innovative and memorable performance are not objective, but too biased. Anyone agree it needs fixing? Benbenthehen ( talk) 13:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Wow! Where to begin? For one, the link provided DOES NOT say he was gay. It says there were suspicions by someone that he might be. Everyone suspected me of being gay too, until I finally got married and had a half a dozen kids!
Secondly...who cares? Why is it there is no "straight film directors" tag? That is discrimination.
Why is it wikipedia is also going and saying all famous dead Germans are gay now? This is clearly racism! It's as bad as using the racist term "vandalism" on their page! 73.220.34.167 ( talk) 19:15, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
I tried to delete the random statement that he was a homosexual since it was totally random even if it's true anyway. But of course it was undone by someone because "it was not constructive." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.47.158 ( talk) 12:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
1. Was the man's stolen skull ever located and returned to his tomb?
2. What became of the death mask that Garbo owned?
Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 04:42, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Pjefts insists on claiming 6 ft 11 because a book written in the 70s says it so it must be true. It's an obvious inaccuracy, a myth, does he look near 7 ft tall here [1] ? If he was those kids would be the size of grown adults. A 1928 edition of Theatre Magazine described him as " six feet, four inches in height", that looks nearer the truth. We should try to make this site as accurate as possible. If you reworded it to "xxx claimed that Murnau was 6 ft 11 that would at least be a compromise, has no place in the infobox and treated as fact when it's common sense it's not true. 81.104.175.138 ( talk) 12:42, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
As this disturbance was not an isolated incident, the cemetery managers are considering sealing the grave.
So the "cemetery managers" are still "considering" after five years? 2A02:AA1:1617:D3BC:C5ED:BA69:A791:44EF ( talk) 23:29, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
I've searched far and wide looking for a primary source on Murnau's supposed homosexuality, but I've come up with nothing. I've went though the sources in this page, and they all lead to a trail that eventually ended at Hollywood Babylon as a the first source mentioning this, a book that has had numerous claims debunked over the decades. Unless anyone can provide a more reliable primary source that proves he was a homosexual, then it's safe to assume there is no evidence Murnau was gay and this article should be updated to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Torch5011 ( talk • contribs) 04:36, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
These claims are also mentioned in the December 1957 issue of Cahiers du Cinéma. The issue features an article by Anger titled "Hollywood, ou le comportement des mortels", which seems to basically be a section taken straight out of Babylon, though published two-years prior. Obviously still not even close to a primary source, but at least dates it back a *little* further. -- Double - U ( talk) 14:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Also of note, David Rollings claimed in interviews that Murnau asked to see and photograph him naked. [1] Not to mention the publication of Murnau's private photographs include nude photos of Rollings. [2] Doesn't prove anything, but then I'm not sure what would in this case, you're hardly going to get a handwritten note from Murnau saying "Yes, I'm gay". Indeed, speculating on a person's sexuality is a bit iffy to begin with, but at the very least you could see how, if he weren't gay, this might start gossip. I'm generally inclined to believe he likely was gay, however. The lack of primary sources in a case like this shouldn't be much of a surprise, the closet was deep and dark in those days. As you rightly say, Hollywood Babylon itself is far from a reliable source, though it does of course have truths sprinkled in there. But then, Babylon being unreliable is common knowledge to any film historian worth their salt, so the fact that they'll pick the book apart and call out every baseless story but still hang on to this detail about Murnau leads me to believe it has at least some credence. Certainly, "most likely false" is going a bit far in my opinion. Double - U ( talk) 17:59, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
References
How come the Garcia Stevenson date of birth given here shows a man in his thirties in 1931, while he's mostly described (for instance in German WP) as a 14 year old, or as a "young man" (in Lotte Eisner's book)? 2A02:AA1:101C:C6F8:9DE2:AECB:2AA6:80C8 ( talk) 20:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
References
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
WikiProject Biography Assessment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 13:07, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A nice way to smear a man is to report rumors about him. Who was in the car observing Murnau before he died? The homosexual interest group had to include their little piece of gossip in order to have it appear that their preferred behavior is widespread and acceptable. Lestrade 12:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
So would the events leading up to the death be relevant (and non victim blamey) if it had been a woman giving head to a man? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.222.123.30 ( talk) 08:23, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Why is that stupid gossip still in the page? The book where you can find that "information" is full of stupid rumors and legends. Murnau is one of the most important film director of all times, who don't deserves this treatment. The sexuality of this person is not important, we can write a lot about murnau's filmography but someone thinks that his sexual life is more important. This page offends not only murnau, but wikipedia.
There isn't a logical and plausible way to demonstrate that Murnau was doing a fellatio on the car driver, this rumor probably born from the ancient (stupid and racist) mentality that all gay people are pedophilians. So i remove it.
Bobbore
The New York Times article (mar 12, 1931) clearly states that only Murnau was killed in this accident. His valet, Garcia Stevenson, identified in the article as E. Garcia, did NOT die.
Sdave —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.147.236.194 ( talk) 12:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
He was incredibly tall, which helps to explain why he died in the accident, having fracturated his skull. 85.243.17.173 ( talk) 15:56, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
"In films prior to The Last Laugh the camera was used solely as a stationary device, this feature was the first to incorporate techniques that involved camera movement, such as tracking shots, pans, tilts, and zooms." -- Anyone who has seen more than a few silent films knows that this is nonsense. All of these techniques were used well before TLL, tracking being particularly common. What makes TLL unique is the very advanced use of the techniques throughout the film, often to marked psychological effect.
The third paragraph of the 'German Films' section sounds like it was copied from the back of the DVD box. I think that it is too positive, words like carefully composed and innovative and memorable performance are not objective, but too biased. Anyone agree it needs fixing? Benbenthehen ( talk) 13:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
F. W. Murnau. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:22, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Wow! Where to begin? For one, the link provided DOES NOT say he was gay. It says there were suspicions by someone that he might be. Everyone suspected me of being gay too, until I finally got married and had a half a dozen kids!
Secondly...who cares? Why is it there is no "straight film directors" tag? That is discrimination.
Why is it wikipedia is also going and saying all famous dead Germans are gay now? This is clearly racism! It's as bad as using the racist term "vandalism" on their page! 73.220.34.167 ( talk) 19:15, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
I tried to delete the random statement that he was a homosexual since it was totally random even if it's true anyway. But of course it was undone by someone because "it was not constructive." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.47.158 ( talk) 12:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
1. Was the man's stolen skull ever located and returned to his tomb?
2. What became of the death mask that Garbo owned?
Thank you, Wordreader ( talk) 04:42, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Pjefts insists on claiming 6 ft 11 because a book written in the 70s says it so it must be true. It's an obvious inaccuracy, a myth, does he look near 7 ft tall here [1] ? If he was those kids would be the size of grown adults. A 1928 edition of Theatre Magazine described him as " six feet, four inches in height", that looks nearer the truth. We should try to make this site as accurate as possible. If you reworded it to "xxx claimed that Murnau was 6 ft 11 that would at least be a compromise, has no place in the infobox and treated as fact when it's common sense it's not true. 81.104.175.138 ( talk) 12:42, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
As this disturbance was not an isolated incident, the cemetery managers are considering sealing the grave.
So the "cemetery managers" are still "considering" after five years? 2A02:AA1:1617:D3BC:C5ED:BA69:A791:44EF ( talk) 23:29, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
I've searched far and wide looking for a primary source on Murnau's supposed homosexuality, but I've come up with nothing. I've went though the sources in this page, and they all lead to a trail that eventually ended at Hollywood Babylon as a the first source mentioning this, a book that has had numerous claims debunked over the decades. Unless anyone can provide a more reliable primary source that proves he was a homosexual, then it's safe to assume there is no evidence Murnau was gay and this article should be updated to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Torch5011 ( talk • contribs) 04:36, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
These claims are also mentioned in the December 1957 issue of Cahiers du Cinéma. The issue features an article by Anger titled "Hollywood, ou le comportement des mortels", which seems to basically be a section taken straight out of Babylon, though published two-years prior. Obviously still not even close to a primary source, but at least dates it back a *little* further. -- Double - U ( talk) 14:32, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Also of note, David Rollings claimed in interviews that Murnau asked to see and photograph him naked. [1] Not to mention the publication of Murnau's private photographs include nude photos of Rollings. [2] Doesn't prove anything, but then I'm not sure what would in this case, you're hardly going to get a handwritten note from Murnau saying "Yes, I'm gay". Indeed, speculating on a person's sexuality is a bit iffy to begin with, but at the very least you could see how, if he weren't gay, this might start gossip. I'm generally inclined to believe he likely was gay, however. The lack of primary sources in a case like this shouldn't be much of a surprise, the closet was deep and dark in those days. As you rightly say, Hollywood Babylon itself is far from a reliable source, though it does of course have truths sprinkled in there. But then, Babylon being unreliable is common knowledge to any film historian worth their salt, so the fact that they'll pick the book apart and call out every baseless story but still hang on to this detail about Murnau leads me to believe it has at least some credence. Certainly, "most likely false" is going a bit far in my opinion. Double - U ( talk) 17:59, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
References
How come the Garcia Stevenson date of birth given here shows a man in his thirties in 1931, while he's mostly described (for instance in German WP) as a 14 year old, or as a "young man" (in Lotte Eisner's book)? 2A02:AA1:101C:C6F8:9DE2:AECB:2AA6:80C8 ( talk) 20:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
References