This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Expulsion of Jews from Spain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was created or improved during Translating Ibero-America, 2017. |
![]() | This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Expulsión de los judíos de España from the Spanish Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. (This notice applies to version 786733544 and subsequent versions of this page.) |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() |
|
occured with the "Shepherds' Crusade". This is wrong, of course. Waves of violence against Jews occurred already in Cordoba in 1013 and Granada in 1066 under Muslim rule. Each had several thousand victims. The Cordoba massacre was the first of its kind on European soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1205:5059:9020:7171:85E9:4E70:2DAF ( talk) 16:19, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
The article Alhambra decree should be merged into Expulsion of Jews from Spain as they are nearly identical topics. Such content of Alhambra decree that isn't already part of Expulsion of the Jews should be included in a new body section entitled "Alhambra decree" (which doesn't currently exist).
I do see one possible argument in favor of keeping them separate, but it would require a major change in scope for Alhambra decree, and would still require some merging of content, probably in both directions. This approach would place the two articles into a summary style relationship with each other, with Expulsion of Jews from Spain being the parent article, and Alhambra decree the child article, the latter dealing strictly with the document itself. This would severely limit the scope of Alhambra decree to the "decree metadata", i.e., the drafting of it, who wrote it, who transcribed it, what room it is was written in, what language it was in, what happened to the document, where it is now, and so on. Everything else would be out of scope for the child, and belong to the parent. I'm not in favor of this approach, as I think they would start converging over time and duplicating the parent again, but I thought I'd mention it. If there were a way to strictly maintain the limited scope of the child, I might be persuaded. Please discuss below. Mathglot ( talk) 00:33, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
"When in 1474 she acceded to the throne, married to the heir of the Crown of Aragon, the future Ferdinand II of Aragon, crypto-Judaism was not punished, "not, of course, by tolerance Or indifference, but because they lacked appropriate legal instruments to characterize this type of crime. "Thus, when they decide to confront the "converso problem", especially after the prior of the Dominicans of Seville, Fray Alonso de Ojeda, in 1475 sent them an alarming report on the number of converts who in that city judaízan, even in an open way, [1] are addressed to Pope Sixtus IV to authorize them to appoint inquisitors in their kingdoms, which the pontiff grants them by the Bull "Exigit sincerae devotionis" of November 1, 1478. "With the creation of the tribunal of the Inquisition, the authorities will have the instrument and the means of in "According to Joseph Perez, Ferdinand and Isabella" were convinced that the Inquisition would compel the converts to integrate definitively: the day when all new Christians renounced Judaism nothing would distinguish them from the other members of the social body." [2]
− as I said, it needs a good going-over by an editor with stature in the area. I think that should be done before any merger. Johnbod ( talk) 01:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
This probably shouldn't affect the merge discussion, but just throwing it out there, just in case: a confusing redirect exists, in Expulsion of the Jews from Spain (note the the), which redirects to Alhambra decree, not to Expulsion of Jews from Spain. Mathglot ( talk) 03:59, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
This article appears to be in large part an unacknowledged translation of
es:Expulsión de los judíos de España. The "Ibero-America 2017" banner is a clue, but the governing principle is
WP:CWW and Wikipedia
licensing requirements. I've added an
RIA statement to the article's page history, so that's taken care of. This talk page needs a {{
translated page}} attribution at the bottom of the Talk header. Pinging @
Suvray:. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk)
01:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the following is flat-out wrong as it stands:
The primary purpose was to have a Jew-free Spain. Preventing backsliding was secondary. deisenbe ( talk) 17:53, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
Just thought I would mention that at leaSt some of the conquistadors were Jewish and left Spain because of the Inquisition. I don't have a source but I know they exist, since I own a book about this, although I don't have it here. If anyone wants to follow up on this, it was definitely published by the University of New Mexico. I don't remember the title. Elinruby ( talk) 08:15, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
"He states that communities of Christians, Jews and Muslims had never lived in the Christian kingdoms. [1]"
I suspect this should say "together". As written, obviously untrue. From about the third paragraph down in the medieval section Elinruby ( talk)
References
user:Mathglot I did this based on Wikipedia:Categorization#Categorizing_pages i.e. 'In addition, each categorized page should be placed in all of the most specific categories to which it logically belongs. This means that if a page belongs to a subcategory of C (or a subcategory of a subcategory of C, and so on) then it is not normally placed directly into C.'. The page is in the category Expulsion of Jews, which is a subcategory of Persecution of Jews, which is a subcategory of Antisemitism. Jontel ( talk) 07:36, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Why is my edit linking the Spanish golden age being removed ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:E144:6F01:1469:CED3:D0B8:95 ( talk) 05:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Expulsion of Jews from Spain article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was created or improved during Translating Ibero-America, 2017. |
![]() | This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Expulsión de los judíos de España from the Spanish Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. (This notice applies to version 786733544 and subsequent versions of this page.) |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() |
|
occured with the "Shepherds' Crusade". This is wrong, of course. Waves of violence against Jews occurred already in Cordoba in 1013 and Granada in 1066 under Muslim rule. Each had several thousand victims. The Cordoba massacre was the first of its kind on European soil. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1205:5059:9020:7171:85E9:4E70:2DAF ( talk) 16:19, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
The article Alhambra decree should be merged into Expulsion of Jews from Spain as they are nearly identical topics. Such content of Alhambra decree that isn't already part of Expulsion of the Jews should be included in a new body section entitled "Alhambra decree" (which doesn't currently exist).
I do see one possible argument in favor of keeping them separate, but it would require a major change in scope for Alhambra decree, and would still require some merging of content, probably in both directions. This approach would place the two articles into a summary style relationship with each other, with Expulsion of Jews from Spain being the parent article, and Alhambra decree the child article, the latter dealing strictly with the document itself. This would severely limit the scope of Alhambra decree to the "decree metadata", i.e., the drafting of it, who wrote it, who transcribed it, what room it is was written in, what language it was in, what happened to the document, where it is now, and so on. Everything else would be out of scope for the child, and belong to the parent. I'm not in favor of this approach, as I think they would start converging over time and duplicating the parent again, but I thought I'd mention it. If there were a way to strictly maintain the limited scope of the child, I might be persuaded. Please discuss below. Mathglot ( talk) 00:33, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
"When in 1474 she acceded to the throne, married to the heir of the Crown of Aragon, the future Ferdinand II of Aragon, crypto-Judaism was not punished, "not, of course, by tolerance Or indifference, but because they lacked appropriate legal instruments to characterize this type of crime. "Thus, when they decide to confront the "converso problem", especially after the prior of the Dominicans of Seville, Fray Alonso de Ojeda, in 1475 sent them an alarming report on the number of converts who in that city judaízan, even in an open way, [1] are addressed to Pope Sixtus IV to authorize them to appoint inquisitors in their kingdoms, which the pontiff grants them by the Bull "Exigit sincerae devotionis" of November 1, 1478. "With the creation of the tribunal of the Inquisition, the authorities will have the instrument and the means of in "According to Joseph Perez, Ferdinand and Isabella" were convinced that the Inquisition would compel the converts to integrate definitively: the day when all new Christians renounced Judaism nothing would distinguish them from the other members of the social body." [2]
− as I said, it needs a good going-over by an editor with stature in the area. I think that should be done before any merger. Johnbod ( talk) 01:38, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
This probably shouldn't affect the merge discussion, but just throwing it out there, just in case: a confusing redirect exists, in Expulsion of the Jews from Spain (note the the), which redirects to Alhambra decree, not to Expulsion of Jews from Spain. Mathglot ( talk) 03:59, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
This article appears to be in large part an unacknowledged translation of
es:Expulsión de los judíos de España. The "Ibero-America 2017" banner is a clue, but the governing principle is
WP:CWW and Wikipedia
licensing requirements. I've added an
RIA statement to the article's page history, so that's taken care of. This talk page needs a {{
translated page}} attribution at the bottom of the Talk header. Pinging @
Suvray:. Thanks,
Mathglot (
talk)
01:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
I think the following is flat-out wrong as it stands:
The primary purpose was to have a Jew-free Spain. Preventing backsliding was secondary. deisenbe ( talk) 17:53, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
Just thought I would mention that at leaSt some of the conquistadors were Jewish and left Spain because of the Inquisition. I don't have a source but I know they exist, since I own a book about this, although I don't have it here. If anyone wants to follow up on this, it was definitely published by the University of New Mexico. I don't remember the title. Elinruby ( talk) 08:15, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
"He states that communities of Christians, Jews and Muslims had never lived in the Christian kingdoms. [1]"
I suspect this should say "together". As written, obviously untrue. From about the third paragraph down in the medieval section Elinruby ( talk)
References
user:Mathglot I did this based on Wikipedia:Categorization#Categorizing_pages i.e. 'In addition, each categorized page should be placed in all of the most specific categories to which it logically belongs. This means that if a page belongs to a subcategory of C (or a subcategory of a subcategory of C, and so on) then it is not normally placed directly into C.'. The page is in the category Expulsion of Jews, which is a subcategory of Persecution of Jews, which is a subcategory of Antisemitism. Jontel ( talk) 07:36, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
Why is my edit linking the Spanish golden age being removed ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:E144:6F01:1469:CED3:D0B8:95 ( talk) 05:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)