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redirect that targets the page: • Deprogramming Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:Deprogramming |
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This article seems to have a potential pro-cult, or at least anti-anti-cult slant. Samrolken 05:20, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Sincerely, I don't see where's the slan...-- euyyn 10:00, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Ed, I think it is unfair and inaccurate to write that exit counseling is voluntary depropgramming. Depropgramming is by definition involuntary.
Andries 08:42, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There is no danger in confusing something defined as "voluntary deprogramming" as involuntary, so I don't see why this article is non-neutral.-- Tengen 02:04, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The main article on exit counseling starts unfairly with a pro-cult biased slant. It ignores the very real phenomenon of mind control. It fails to acknowledge the incalculable pain and suffering inflicted by mind-controlling groups such as Boston Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness, as well as many smaller groups. Unfortunately, the mainstream counseling community has failed to recognize the role of mind control in abusive-group situations. A key aim of exit counseling is to reveal the techniques of mind control. The group member can then decide whether he or she has experienced such techniques in their own group.
Sure, there is disagreement about what constitutes "mind control" -- just as there used to be disagreement about what constitutes "alcoholism." Today we look for genes that confer susceptibility to alcoholism; tomorrow, we'll look for mind control susceptibility. But until the mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists take up their responsibility, exit counseling will be the main hope for victims of a wide-ranging form of social pathology. (L)
I propose to have one article with both subjects covered in which the distictions between the two can be explored. A possible title "
Deprogramming and exit counseling", with previous titles redirecting to the new article. --
Zappaz 01:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Exit counseling is not two wrongs make a right. I think thinking something like that is hasty generalization or possably guilt by association. I might have the wrong fallacy, but I know it's a logical fallicy to think that because brainwashing people to think certain things is wrong, brainwashing is wrong. It's like thinking that because dragging an unconcious man into a fire is wrong, dragging him out is wrong.
I'd also like to point out that aulthough technically "exit counseling is voluntary deprogramming" doesn't make sense, it is commonly used, like in "a bull is a male cow". Perhaps it should be changed to "exit counseling is the same as deprogramming, exept voluntary." Daniel 7 July 2005 02:33 (UTC)
Makes deprogramming seem natural. Skirts over renaming issue.
Depicts deprogrammer Rick Ross as following a code of ethics? He's the guy who talked the FBI and ATF into double-crossing the Branch Davidians and attacking Waco with a tank and incendiary grenades.!
Using the word "information" in this context implies that its true information" - same with "analysis".
And "nature of mind control" means the unsupported theory that cults use mind control - repudiated by the APA as "not scientific".
We should not be slam-dunking the deprogrammers (renamed innocuousoly exit counselors) perhaps, but we certainly should not be white-washing them either. Uncle Ed 04:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I have done quite a bit of research on cult interventions, and had the privledge to be accepted to present a research paper at a CESNUR conference last year ( http://www.cesnur.org/2005/pa_brown.htm). Deprogramming is divided into voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary Deprogramming was renamed Exit Counseling. During some research I can across a paper that referred to an unpublished AFF letter where the suggestion was made to change the name from Voluntary Deprogramming to Exit Counseling. I will try to find that paper again and pass it on to everyone it on to everyone
Hi,
I would disagree with this MERGING for the following reasons:
IF anything most post cult/New Religious Movement/Sects have complaints that they couldn't access Exit Counselling and form forums, groups to assist each other in a peer Exit counselling fashion.
Please keep them separate. PEACE TalkAbout 21:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I think they should be kept separate. (XOR)
I agree, the two articles describe different topics and should be kept seperate. Exit counselling is clearly different than deprogramming.-- Fahrenheit451 06:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
==Merge==
Exit counseling is already discussed in
Deprogramming. It is a fairly minor topic and perhaps the two articles should be merged.
Kitfoxxe (
talk) 13:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC) Blocked sock.
::But deprogramming is certainly notable and well-known, even if now only of historical interest. Probably 99% of people who know what it is have [not] heard of exit counseling.
Borock (
talk) 17:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
::::That sounds like a good idea. Incidentally (and not directly related), the last time I checked
Communism it was mainly about Marx's ideal society not the history of what we call "communism."
Kitfoxxe (
talk) 22:45, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
This is the
talk page of a
redirect that targets the page: • Deprogramming Because this page is not frequently watched, present and future discussions, edit requests and requested moves should take place at: • Talk:Deprogramming |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
This article seems to have a potential pro-cult, or at least anti-anti-cult slant. Samrolken 05:20, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Sincerely, I don't see where's the slan...-- euyyn 10:00, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Ed, I think it is unfair and inaccurate to write that exit counseling is voluntary depropgramming. Depropgramming is by definition involuntary.
Andries 08:42, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There is no danger in confusing something defined as "voluntary deprogramming" as involuntary, so I don't see why this article is non-neutral.-- Tengen 02:04, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The main article on exit counseling starts unfairly with a pro-cult biased slant. It ignores the very real phenomenon of mind control. It fails to acknowledge the incalculable pain and suffering inflicted by mind-controlling groups such as Boston Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness, as well as many smaller groups. Unfortunately, the mainstream counseling community has failed to recognize the role of mind control in abusive-group situations. A key aim of exit counseling is to reveal the techniques of mind control. The group member can then decide whether he or she has experienced such techniques in their own group.
Sure, there is disagreement about what constitutes "mind control" -- just as there used to be disagreement about what constitutes "alcoholism." Today we look for genes that confer susceptibility to alcoholism; tomorrow, we'll look for mind control susceptibility. But until the mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists take up their responsibility, exit counseling will be the main hope for victims of a wide-ranging form of social pathology. (L)
I propose to have one article with both subjects covered in which the distictions between the two can be explored. A possible title "
Deprogramming and exit counseling", with previous titles redirecting to the new article. --
Zappaz 01:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Exit counseling is not two wrongs make a right. I think thinking something like that is hasty generalization or possably guilt by association. I might have the wrong fallacy, but I know it's a logical fallicy to think that because brainwashing people to think certain things is wrong, brainwashing is wrong. It's like thinking that because dragging an unconcious man into a fire is wrong, dragging him out is wrong.
I'd also like to point out that aulthough technically "exit counseling is voluntary deprogramming" doesn't make sense, it is commonly used, like in "a bull is a male cow". Perhaps it should be changed to "exit counseling is the same as deprogramming, exept voluntary." Daniel 7 July 2005 02:33 (UTC)
Makes deprogramming seem natural. Skirts over renaming issue.
Depicts deprogrammer Rick Ross as following a code of ethics? He's the guy who talked the FBI and ATF into double-crossing the Branch Davidians and attacking Waco with a tank and incendiary grenades.!
Using the word "information" in this context implies that its true information" - same with "analysis".
And "nature of mind control" means the unsupported theory that cults use mind control - repudiated by the APA as "not scientific".
We should not be slam-dunking the deprogrammers (renamed innocuousoly exit counselors) perhaps, but we certainly should not be white-washing them either. Uncle Ed 04:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I have done quite a bit of research on cult interventions, and had the privledge to be accepted to present a research paper at a CESNUR conference last year ( http://www.cesnur.org/2005/pa_brown.htm). Deprogramming is divided into voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary Deprogramming was renamed Exit Counseling. During some research I can across a paper that referred to an unpublished AFF letter where the suggestion was made to change the name from Voluntary Deprogramming to Exit Counseling. I will try to find that paper again and pass it on to everyone it on to everyone
Hi,
I would disagree with this MERGING for the following reasons:
IF anything most post cult/New Religious Movement/Sects have complaints that they couldn't access Exit Counselling and form forums, groups to assist each other in a peer Exit counselling fashion.
Please keep them separate. PEACE TalkAbout 21:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I think they should be kept separate. (XOR)
I agree, the two articles describe different topics and should be kept seperate. Exit counselling is clearly different than deprogramming.-- Fahrenheit451 06:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
==Merge==
Exit counseling is already discussed in
Deprogramming. It is a fairly minor topic and perhaps the two articles should be merged.
Kitfoxxe (
talk) 13:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC) Blocked sock.
::But deprogramming is certainly notable and well-known, even if now only of historical interest. Probably 99% of people who know what it is have [not] heard of exit counseling.
Borock (
talk) 17:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
::::That sounds like a good idea. Incidentally (and not directly related), the last time I checked
Communism it was mainly about Marx's ideal society not the history of what we call "communism."
Kitfoxxe (
talk) 22:45, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.