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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
Troy is the lead guitarist. He plays the solos and lead lines. I have never seen Terry do any evidence of him playing any lead guitar styles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.166.48 ( talk) 23:40, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
"Will Hunt returned as drummer while a second drummer and programmer, Will "Science" Hunt, was brought in to assist in writing but ultimately did not join the band.[45][46] "
...what ??
109.189.7.91 ( talk) 23:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I am sorry but I managed to get my information wrong. Evanescence went on a Japan tour with Dazzle Vision in February 2012, nor March. Could someone fix that for me? thanks KaseyVincent ( talk) 09:41, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Per this, the next single will actually be "The Other Side." This would not be the first time for Ev that a single would be announced and then changed. Therefore, I'm removing "Made of Stone" from the list and adding this instead. Calabe 1992 02:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I do not think that the other side is the next single as it would have been said by Evanescence/Amy Lee on social networking sites. The reference to the change, I would say is not notable, it says that it will go to radio stations, NOT that it is the new single for the album so I think that unless a notable reference for this change cab be found, I think it should be changed back to "Made of Stone". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.0.75 ( talk) 23:16, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The release date of Made of stone has not been released yet but it has been said by Amy Lee/ Evanescence that it is the third single but they have never said that about the other side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.0.75 ( talk) 22:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The main picture of the band is very old and two of those members are no longer in the band so I suggest that the picture could be changed to a more recent picture of the band that includes the newest members, Will Hunt and Troy McLawhorn.
-- Alexcatt97 ( talk) 23:20, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Where's the associated acts and the genres? Panic Reaper ( talk) 04:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Evanescence is lined up to appear on the Carnival of Madness tour kicking off July 31, 2012, with Halestorm, Cavo, New Medicine, and Chevelle. Does anyone have a draft about this in progress, or is it open for anyone to contribute? Dishandspoon2008 ( talk) 16:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I've tried using the references, from that section in order to verify Evanescence's position in the list of alt metal articles (and a baised user is giving me a hard time) but all those references are bogus, for alt metal, one reference leads to a site that does not look very reliable and doesnt even mention alt metal, just alt rock...that same site also says ev is pop rock which is not, so why use it? the electronica reference and alt rock references are also bogus. There needs to be relable sources. POINT IS: the sources in that section should be verified to make sure they are valid and reliable 24.227.9.114 ( talk) 18:01, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Should be mentioned that three members left and joined WAF. I know some will say that it isnt relevant to the article, but indeed, all someone needs to ask themselves is "what was that band?" and they will come to this article. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 10:34, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
The reference only states that they are on a break, not a hiatus or a temporary break up, in fact Amy Lee herself is still active, she has performed an acoustic set with Paula Cole for Wellspring House, bu nothing has been stated that they are in a hiatus, so why does it state that they are? - SilentDan297 talk 16:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
It's important to create pages for these promotional singles and mention them in the template box of the band:
"Imaginary" (2003) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Imaginary/release/2106706
"Missing" (2004) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Missing/master/478364
"
Weight of the World" (2007)
"Together Again" (2010) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Together-Again/release/2617320
"Made of Stone" (2012) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Made-Of-Stone/release/3832162
"The Other Side" (2012) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-The-Other-Side/release/3856562
187.60.66.59 ( talk) 21:44, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
What I see in this edit is fairly uncontroversial, they left WindUp, and are suing, that gives credence to the statement "her band would end their contract with Wind Up Records", the only part I can't confirm is the independent label part. Whats the big deal? the Website appears to be managed by windup so I don't expect to see such a statement posted there, which leaves their official Twitter and FB as references. The RS guide indicates that the same policy applies to FB and twitter as with other sources, it can be used. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 05:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Considering that most of the band's songs/albums are comprised of alternative metal, nu-metal and gothic rock, wouldn't it only make sense to add those to the genres...? Whatever318 ( talk) 19:44, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I highly disagree with this. I completely understand the fact that people add in their own genres, of which will cause edit wars, however I don't think that's a good enough excuse as nearly every musical artist article will go though that, you simply have to protect the page and revert on those incident, in fact people add genres anyway to the infobox so what's the point? You may as well revert to the genres using that logic instead of nothing as it does the same job as having nothing. If you think people argue over the genre of this band, think about Linkin Park, the list of genres associated with them is insane! A hell of a lot more than Evanescence does, yet despite this, they stick to three generalised genres, and when someone edits that without consensus, it is reverted, the exact same thing you do only the difference is they revert to the same three genres, they don't revert to nothing because they can't be bothered to do so, this in my eyes is just plane laziness, and I agree with Whatever318 by using the genres alternative metal, nu-metal and gothic rock as they are three generalised genres used to describe the band. SilentDan297 talk 15:02, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
According to Natalie.mu ( Link) and Ozzy Osbourne's facebook page ( Link) Evanescence will be performing at Ozzfest 2015 in Japan, marking this as the bands first performance since 2012. I'm not sure if Natalie.mu is considered reliable or not or if it is a good idea to add a primary source to back this info up but if Natalie.mu is reliable may I put this info onto the article? SilentDan ( talk) 15:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
It is not clear to me in the archives why this was delisted. I would like to know why. DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 18:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Any plans on changing the band picture? I don't know what the deal is with this page that has a picture that is so irrelevant as the main one. Either use one from when they were the most famous (with Ben Moody), use one that's recent or remove it completely and just use the logo. It's been almost a decade since that picture, it has no place there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.53.6.92 ( talk) 10:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
With no genre field whatsoever and the genre being left as "rock," it said come here to talk about it, and yes, you guessed it, I'm here to object to it being alone. Their music (minus the vocal style) used to be verrryy heavy metal, and we need to indicate it somehow. No specific type or anything necessary, but we need simply put a "metal" tag next to the rock tag at the beginning. There are many sources that call it some type of metal, whether it be alternative, gothic, nu, or sometimes just plain heavy metal, and this is why we don't have it in a field. So we need something, can't we just do that? DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 21:56, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | Critics vary in terming Evanescence a
rock or
metal band, but most identify them as some form of gothic band: publications such as
The New York Times,
Rough Guides,
Rolling Stone and
Blender have identified Evanescence as a
gothic metal act,
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4] while other sources such as
NME,
MusicMight,
IGN,
PopMatters and
Spin have termed them
gothic rock.
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9] They have been compared to a variety of bands from differing genres, such as
nu metal ensembles like
P.O.D. and
Linkin Park,
[10]
[11] gothic metal groups like
Lacuna Coil,
[12] and
symphonic metal acts like
Nightwish and
Within Temptation.
[13] David Browne of Blender offers an elaborate description of the band's music as "goth Christian nü-metal with a twist of melancholic
Enya."
[14] Adrien Begrand of Popmatters describes Evanescence as utilising "nu-metal riffage".
[9]
Adrian Jackson of
My Dying Bride stated that he feels Evanescence is doing something similar to his own gothic metal group, only in a more commercial direction.
[15] Other genres and influences used to describe the band's sound include
industrial,
[16]
[17]
alternative metal,
[18]
progressive metal,
[19]
alternative rock,
[8]
hard rock,
[20]
electronica,
[6]
post-grunge,
[18]
chamber pop,
[21] and
heavy metal.
[22] The band's official website classed their musical genre simply as "rock".
Evanescence was originally promoted in Christian stores. Later, the band made it clear they did not want to be considered part of the Christian rock genre, like fellow Wind-up Records artists Creed. [23] Terry Hemmings, CEO of Christian music distributor Provident, expressed puzzlement at the band's about-face, saying, "They clearly understood the album would be sold in these [Christian music] channels." [24] After many Christian stores began to remove the band's music from their shelves, Wind-up Records chairman Alan Meltzer then issued a press release in April 2003 requesting formally that they do this. [25] In 2006, Amy Lee told Billboard that she had opposed being identified as a "Christian band" from the beginning. [26] |
” |
- Evanescence style page, May 22, 2015.
Just look at this. True, there are five citations for gothic rock, but look at all those metal citations that outnumber simply "rock."
Nu metal: Technically, 4.
Gothic metal: 5.
Others: 4. (Symphonic metal, alternative metal, progressive metal, standard-formula
heavy metal.)
Industrial music could probably be seen from both sides (
rock/
metal), but for that reason, I won't count it.
Total: 13.
Gothic rock: 5.
Rock: 1
Others: 2 (Alternative rock, hard rock. I don't know if post-grunge should be counted because it's a subgenre of alt. rock. Either way, rock loses.)
Total: 8
Note: Even if they did move away from a metal style later, their earlier metal style is obviously more successful and therefore more notable. Compare the 7.8 million sales of Fallen to the 400,000 of their self-titled album. That might not be current, but it's close.
Thank you for considering my discussion. DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 20:54, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
References
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help page).nytimes080208
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help page).rstone061005
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help page).blender030807
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).spin100305
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).NME
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Musicmight
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Thompson, Ed
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopFallen
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).rstone030325
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).allmusicNuMetal
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopLacuna
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopNightwish
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).blender2006
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).decibelmag
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).ewe
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).billboarddd
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).allmusicAltMet
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).independentuk
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).hardrockmaestros
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).aolmusic
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).philstar20120217
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).YM
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).RollingStone1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).BillboardPull
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Leeunlocksdoor
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).All of their albums have links to them except Origin. I want to put a link to it in the first paragraph where it says, "three EPs, a two-track tape, and a demo album called Origin". How do I do that? 67.234.150.114 ( talk) 19:08, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much for explaining that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.234.150.114 ( talk) 16:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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I think this page should be semi-protected just like the article Korn. User:Zhyar Merlin ( talk) 18:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
And by the way, the symphonic metal should be removed from Evanescence's main genre, because they are NOT even close to a symphonic metal band and I believe that adding this type of genre to replace the Rock will confuse the fans. Amy Lee said countless times that they are a rock band, and in some other interviews that "there is no specific genre for Evanescence, it has it's own music style." And they also refer to their genre just as "Rock" on their websites. I believe that Amy knows better about the band's genre than me and you would ever know, and replacing Rock with Symphonic Metal is a huge mistake! ( talk) 15:55, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Symphonic metal is fringe theory, they are symphonic metal, rarely. Very rarely. I have removed it. Someone by the name of Secret Door seems to be very opposed to Evanescence's involvement in gothic metal, but it's not their place to say. Alternative metal, nu metal, and gothic metal are the most important ones. As nobody's fighting as bad as I've seen for many other articles, I'm willing to be vigilant as really these are the only genres that have been described in detail by a majority of sources. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 15:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Someone added them and I see it wasn't immediately taken down. Well, I propose we leave them up there for one week and see just how many people war over them. If we get too many, we'll go back to the old way. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 16:43, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
"These are not minor sources!" Fine, I'll add both in there and see if that solves the problem. "By the way, the infobox instructions tell us to avoid putting something in the infobox that links to an article section." I'd kindly like to ask you to prove that. It was a tried-and-true solution. WP:OR says we shouldn't automatically label all their albums/songs alt metal, but we do anyway because of some huge consensus spanning several archives. A special case. Nothing certainly attracts more attention than what was there before, so it seems to be a special case here too. Genre warriors do not tend to pay any attention to the index, just the infobox. What'll it be? dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 02:31, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
No good has ever come from including genres in this article. It is the source for near constant conflict when they are included. — Huntster ( t @ c) 00:27, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Just a note to voice my opinion against inserting the note "See musical style" to replace a list of genres. Either we list a few genres or we keep the parameter empty. This is in accordance with WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE which says "Do not include links to sections within the article; the table of contents provides that function.". Thanks. Binksternet ( talk) 16:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
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Do you guys think we should perhaps mention Ben Moody's letter which he wrote about his departure? it's on Evboard. Zhyar Merlin talk 18:07, 12 July 2016
Can someone please add an IPA near the name? I think it's good if it's there, there is one here too. Zhyar Merlin ( talk) 09:41, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
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Isn't Amy also a songwriter? If so, should the article mention that as well since it is a part of her profession? Alanna.davis ( talk) 16:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I need a history lesson before I make any other proposals about the genre. Has this "edit-warring" been mostly IPs and newly created users who claim to know everything and know actually nothing? Or are there often experienced users calling sources into question and taking real initiative in their arguments?
I am aware that a lot of the involved editors have concerns about its stability if we add anything. But if this is a GA (which I hope I can get now that I fixed spots missing cites), I believe it would be awkward to leave it simply blank and expect them to read a whole section. We can just make it so messing with that is impossible (this is, of course, only if the warring gets out of hand after we implement this in the first place). Outside of that, vigilance will be key, but hopefully we won't need it much. This will preserve stability. If anyone provided me counter-examples, I'd be inclined to argue the same case on said example.
None of their faces are shown clearly in the current picture. I suggest to use the older one and wait until someone takes an appropriate picture of the band.— Lost Whispers talk 13:32, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
I am thinking about retracting the GA nomination because the page is somewhat likely to be a bit unstable when the review comes. What do you guys think? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 22:12, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
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Genre warring has been a problem here, so until now they've been removed - but I am here to promote a push for resistance because I personally believe the current consensus is a poor decision. What genres fit the page best based on reliable sources that are either here already or are available for inclusion? To understand completely, I recommend you read all this. 16:51, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I'll begin. This article used to have incessant genre wars that were incredibly disruptive to the project. To a degree, the page still sees a fair amount of it. However, genre warriors are no reason to capitulate having the genres there. There is rarely any activity that calls for expansion on the article to be disrupted, and it's now a quality article. I made sure to get this done first so I could avoid stability issues. So no matter how otherwise disruptive they may be, I have seen much worse come to reasonable resolution; System of a Down is whitelocked with "pending changes" (which a standard semi should be the worst it'll get); Mudvayne's nu metal dispute has settled down, and HIM (GA) has become so saturated with sources for goth that fans seem to believe it and their "Love Metal" argument is completely dead.
In Evanescence's case, I believe the vandalism will continue at the same rate whether we have them or not. We have them consistently ignoring the notice as if they don't know how to read and adding/changing genres to their own personal preference. It definitely is not as bad as some others as I've seen. I believe that withholding this from the infobox is withholding valuable information that you should be able to get quickly. If things get out of hand, we have protections available to intervene and we can answer requests here or just use pending changes. A genre war between anons and the main contributors is not a stability concern. We must not give in to the vandals. The other people who contribute to Evanescence's WikiProject remain resistant to that statement.
Now, we just need to agree on a position in which the most important, most-cited information from critics is represented. Nu metal and gothic rock and/or gothic metal have consistently been attributed to the band in recordings and as a whole. There was allegedly consensus for a long time to list all recordings except a select few as at least alternative metal (recently unofficially transitioned to if nu metal, its subgenre, is cited it's listed instead). While alt metal is attributed to the group itself, only one recording has been listed as such (See Fallen, 2003). But that never happened on the main page - they say because it's inaccurate. Sure, it's not completely just alt metal, but it's a general overview of the rest of the ways they've been described; I'd even be okay with that. I personally think a combined solution of their albums and overall style, with more weight on their individual style, would be best to implement. Looking forward to feedback. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 16:51, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for advice, stick to the Simple English page for genres, everyone! 👍🏽 MarilynMansonFan96 ( talk) 06:45, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I think it is wrong for the genre field to be left blank. I think it is best to keep it simple. Such as having Heavy metal, Hard rock, Alternative rock, and Gothic rock being the genres in the info box. Just a thought. Dekai Averett ( talk) 00:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Huntster: then why not delete the genre parameter in the first place?--◂ épine talk♬ 15:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I think their should be infobox genres present but try to aim for generality. Something like this:
Dekai Averett ( talk) 02:20, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
On IMDB site, under personal quotes from Amy Lee. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341624/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
"We're definitely a rock band, but the twist is that the band's music is epic, dramatic, dark rock." - on Evanescence.
If the lead singer of the band can't be a trusted source as to what genre they are, then who else could be? 32.212.102.239 ( talk) 01:06, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
I am starting a discussion on the infobox image because this edit war needs to stop, and I would like input from other editors. The addition of the new image keeps getting reverted by @ 151.43.14.167: and @ 195.32.87.171: without explanation and I would like to know why. Instead of edit warring without explaining, tell me why we should have the old photo instead of the new one. They are on par with each other quality wise so we might as well use the new one. What is wrong with the new image. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
John LeCompt was the lead guitarist for evanescence but he also was the rhythm guitarist for evanescence when Ben moody was the lead guitarist for evanescence when Ben moody left the band in 2003 John LeCompt switch from rhythm guitar to lead guitar and Terry balsamo took the rhythm guitar spot 31.94.20.60 ( talk) 14:04, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
I think it's time that we reach a consensus on the genres. This is a Good Article and I feel the genres should have been settled before it reached that status. Here are some suggestions for inclusion in the infobox: gothic metal, alternative metal, nu metal, hard rock, alternative rock, gothic rock, post-grunge, and symphonic metal.
Obviously, not all of these genres will be included. We can narrow it down to four or five from here. These are all the genres that are sourced in the article. Bowling is life ( talk) 03:32, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There is no consensus. Genres are based on characteristics. There are books for Metal. There are books for Goth. And this is NOT Goth and never was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.70.206.102 ( talk) 19:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
@ 217.70.206.102: There is a consensus, look at the discussion in the section. Genres are based on sources, not editor opinion. Do not remove sourced genres just because you disagree with them being listed. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
The most highly-referenced genres for the band and their discography - not just one album or a few songs - are the four currently present: Alternative metal, gothic rock, gothic metal, hard rock. Industrial rock would likely be the next most cited by RS's for the discography. I support the inclusion of Industrial rock in the infobox as, per reliable sources, industrial and electronic music are significant components in the band's overall sound, with every album incorporating industrial/electronic elements. Per RS's, classical/symphonic music is also integral to the band's overall sound; apart from an album (Synthesis) being fully symphonic, RS's have noted orchestral/symphonic components in every album, however I don't believe this can be present in the infobox. Lapadite ( talk) 12:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
As for nu metal, which is largely attributed to the debut by majority of RS's (a number of which have written that the band evolved from that genre thereafter and "survived" debuting in that nu metal era), I'd only support its inclusion in the infobox if it's qualified with "(early)" beside it, as per majority of RS's. Lapadite ( talk) 14:08, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Bowling is life, you've removed the "(early)" note next to nu metal several times ( [4], [5], [6], [7]), merely repeating the same edit summary, and ignoring that cited sources in the Musical style section refer to this genre as being largely exclusive to the first album and describe the rest of the discography under different genres. Therefore, the inclusion of this genre in the infobox should reflect that, otherwise it can imply that it's significantly present across the band's discography. Repeatedly removing this without an explanation to support your removal is considered disruptive. Surely you know this kind of genre note is used in many articles on WP, specifically for artists who, per sources, have not significantly incorporated an early album genre into the rest of the discography. Lapadite ( talk) 06:14, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
Noting that this was resolved in the above Genre consensus discussion. Lapadite ( talk) 04:51, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
the time line needs to change to:
the changes conform to how timelines are made in other pages. Also as Lee is the lead singer and also keyboardist and is credited as so on album liner notes, vocals should be before keyboards, I can see why there is protest to this as lead vocals and harp are the same colour. if editors have issues with this proposal then can it be addressed. 80s Sam ( talk) 11:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
Troy is the lead guitarist. He plays the solos and lead lines. I have never seen Terry do any evidence of him playing any lead guitar styles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.166.48 ( talk) 23:40, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
"Will Hunt returned as drummer while a second drummer and programmer, Will "Science" Hunt, was brought in to assist in writing but ultimately did not join the band.[45][46] "
...what ??
109.189.7.91 ( talk) 23:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
I am sorry but I managed to get my information wrong. Evanescence went on a Japan tour with Dazzle Vision in February 2012, nor March. Could someone fix that for me? thanks KaseyVincent ( talk) 09:41, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Per this, the next single will actually be "The Other Side." This would not be the first time for Ev that a single would be announced and then changed. Therefore, I'm removing "Made of Stone" from the list and adding this instead. Calabe 1992 02:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I do not think that the other side is the next single as it would have been said by Evanescence/Amy Lee on social networking sites. The reference to the change, I would say is not notable, it says that it will go to radio stations, NOT that it is the new single for the album so I think that unless a notable reference for this change cab be found, I think it should be changed back to "Made of Stone". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.0.75 ( talk) 23:16, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The release date of Made of stone has not been released yet but it has been said by Amy Lee/ Evanescence that it is the third single but they have never said that about the other side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.0.75 ( talk) 22:09, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The main picture of the band is very old and two of those members are no longer in the band so I suggest that the picture could be changed to a more recent picture of the band that includes the newest members, Will Hunt and Troy McLawhorn.
-- Alexcatt97 ( talk) 23:20, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
Where's the associated acts and the genres? Panic Reaper ( talk) 04:01, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Evanescence is lined up to appear on the Carnival of Madness tour kicking off July 31, 2012, with Halestorm, Cavo, New Medicine, and Chevelle. Does anyone have a draft about this in progress, or is it open for anyone to contribute? Dishandspoon2008 ( talk) 16:42, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I've tried using the references, from that section in order to verify Evanescence's position in the list of alt metal articles (and a baised user is giving me a hard time) but all those references are bogus, for alt metal, one reference leads to a site that does not look very reliable and doesnt even mention alt metal, just alt rock...that same site also says ev is pop rock which is not, so why use it? the electronica reference and alt rock references are also bogus. There needs to be relable sources. POINT IS: the sources in that section should be verified to make sure they are valid and reliable 24.227.9.114 ( talk) 18:01, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Should be mentioned that three members left and joined WAF. I know some will say that it isnt relevant to the article, but indeed, all someone needs to ask themselves is "what was that band?" and they will come to this article. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 10:34, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
The reference only states that they are on a break, not a hiatus or a temporary break up, in fact Amy Lee herself is still active, she has performed an acoustic set with Paula Cole for Wellspring House, bu nothing has been stated that they are in a hiatus, so why does it state that they are? - SilentDan297 talk 16:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
It's important to create pages for these promotional singles and mention them in the template box of the band:
"Imaginary" (2003) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Imaginary/release/2106706
"Missing" (2004) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Missing/master/478364
"
Weight of the World" (2007)
"Together Again" (2010) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Together-Again/release/2617320
"Made of Stone" (2012) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-Made-Of-Stone/release/3832162
"The Other Side" (2012) - Font:
http://www.discogs.com/Evanescence-The-Other-Side/release/3856562
187.60.66.59 ( talk) 21:44, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
What I see in this edit is fairly uncontroversial, they left WindUp, and are suing, that gives credence to the statement "her band would end their contract with Wind Up Records", the only part I can't confirm is the independent label part. Whats the big deal? the Website appears to be managed by windup so I don't expect to see such a statement posted there, which leaves their official Twitter and FB as references. The RS guide indicates that the same policy applies to FB and twitter as with other sources, it can be used. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 05:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Considering that most of the band's songs/albums are comprised of alternative metal, nu-metal and gothic rock, wouldn't it only make sense to add those to the genres...? Whatever318 ( talk) 19:44, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I highly disagree with this. I completely understand the fact that people add in their own genres, of which will cause edit wars, however I don't think that's a good enough excuse as nearly every musical artist article will go though that, you simply have to protect the page and revert on those incident, in fact people add genres anyway to the infobox so what's the point? You may as well revert to the genres using that logic instead of nothing as it does the same job as having nothing. If you think people argue over the genre of this band, think about Linkin Park, the list of genres associated with them is insane! A hell of a lot more than Evanescence does, yet despite this, they stick to three generalised genres, and when someone edits that without consensus, it is reverted, the exact same thing you do only the difference is they revert to the same three genres, they don't revert to nothing because they can't be bothered to do so, this in my eyes is just plane laziness, and I agree with Whatever318 by using the genres alternative metal, nu-metal and gothic rock as they are three generalised genres used to describe the band. SilentDan297 talk 15:02, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
According to Natalie.mu ( Link) and Ozzy Osbourne's facebook page ( Link) Evanescence will be performing at Ozzfest 2015 in Japan, marking this as the bands first performance since 2012. I'm not sure if Natalie.mu is considered reliable or not or if it is a good idea to add a primary source to back this info up but if Natalie.mu is reliable may I put this info onto the article? SilentDan ( talk) 15:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
It is not clear to me in the archives why this was delisted. I would like to know why. DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 18:52, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Any plans on changing the band picture? I don't know what the deal is with this page that has a picture that is so irrelevant as the main one. Either use one from when they were the most famous (with Ben Moody), use one that's recent or remove it completely and just use the logo. It's been almost a decade since that picture, it has no place there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.53.6.92 ( talk) 10:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
With no genre field whatsoever and the genre being left as "rock," it said come here to talk about it, and yes, you guessed it, I'm here to object to it being alone. Their music (minus the vocal style) used to be verrryy heavy metal, and we need to indicate it somehow. No specific type or anything necessary, but we need simply put a "metal" tag next to the rock tag at the beginning. There are many sources that call it some type of metal, whether it be alternative, gothic, nu, or sometimes just plain heavy metal, and this is why we don't have it in a field. So we need something, can't we just do that? DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 21:56, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
“ | Critics vary in terming Evanescence a
rock or
metal band, but most identify them as some form of gothic band: publications such as
The New York Times,
Rough Guides,
Rolling Stone and
Blender have identified Evanescence as a
gothic metal act,
[1]
[2]
[3]
[4] while other sources such as
NME,
MusicMight,
IGN,
PopMatters and
Spin have termed them
gothic rock.
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]
[9] They have been compared to a variety of bands from differing genres, such as
nu metal ensembles like
P.O.D. and
Linkin Park,
[10]
[11] gothic metal groups like
Lacuna Coil,
[12] and
symphonic metal acts like
Nightwish and
Within Temptation.
[13] David Browne of Blender offers an elaborate description of the band's music as "goth Christian nü-metal with a twist of melancholic
Enya."
[14] Adrien Begrand of Popmatters describes Evanescence as utilising "nu-metal riffage".
[9]
Adrian Jackson of
My Dying Bride stated that he feels Evanescence is doing something similar to his own gothic metal group, only in a more commercial direction.
[15] Other genres and influences used to describe the band's sound include
industrial,
[16]
[17]
alternative metal,
[18]
progressive metal,
[19]
alternative rock,
[8]
hard rock,
[20]
electronica,
[6]
post-grunge,
[18]
chamber pop,
[21] and
heavy metal.
[22] The band's official website classed their musical genre simply as "rock".
Evanescence was originally promoted in Christian stores. Later, the band made it clear they did not want to be considered part of the Christian rock genre, like fellow Wind-up Records artists Creed. [23] Terry Hemmings, CEO of Christian music distributor Provident, expressed puzzlement at the band's about-face, saying, "They clearly understood the album would be sold in these [Christian music] channels." [24] After many Christian stores began to remove the band's music from their shelves, Wind-up Records chairman Alan Meltzer then issued a press release in April 2003 requesting formally that they do this. [25] In 2006, Amy Lee told Billboard that she had opposed being identified as a "Christian band" from the beginning. [26] |
” |
- Evanescence style page, May 22, 2015.
Just look at this. True, there are five citations for gothic rock, but look at all those metal citations that outnumber simply "rock."
Nu metal: Technically, 4.
Gothic metal: 5.
Others: 4. (Symphonic metal, alternative metal, progressive metal, standard-formula
heavy metal.)
Industrial music could probably be seen from both sides (
rock/
metal), but for that reason, I won't count it.
Total: 13.
Gothic rock: 5.
Rock: 1
Others: 2 (Alternative rock, hard rock. I don't know if post-grunge should be counted because it's a subgenre of alt. rock. Either way, rock loses.)
Total: 8
Note: Even if they did move away from a metal style later, their earlier metal style is obviously more successful and therefore more notable. Compare the 7.8 million sales of Fallen to the 400,000 of their self-titled album. That might not be current, but it's close.
Thank you for considering my discussion. DannyMusicEditor ( talk) 20:54, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
References
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help page).spin100305
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help page).NME
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Musicmight
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Thompson, Ed
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopFallen
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).rstone030325
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).allmusicNuMetal
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopLacuna
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).PopNightwish
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).blender2006
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).decibelmag
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).ewe
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).billboarddd
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).allmusicAltMet
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).independentuk
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).hardrockmaestros
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).aolmusic
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).philstar20120217
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).YM
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).RollingStone1
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).BillboardPull
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Leeunlocksdoor
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).All of their albums have links to them except Origin. I want to put a link to it in the first paragraph where it says, "three EPs, a two-track tape, and a demo album called Origin". How do I do that? 67.234.150.114 ( talk) 19:08, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
Thank you very much for explaining that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.234.150.114 ( talk) 16:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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I think this page should be semi-protected just like the article Korn. User:Zhyar Merlin ( talk) 18:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
And by the way, the symphonic metal should be removed from Evanescence's main genre, because they are NOT even close to a symphonic metal band and I believe that adding this type of genre to replace the Rock will confuse the fans. Amy Lee said countless times that they are a rock band, and in some other interviews that "there is no specific genre for Evanescence, it has it's own music style." And they also refer to their genre just as "Rock" on their websites. I believe that Amy knows better about the band's genre than me and you would ever know, and replacing Rock with Symphonic Metal is a huge mistake! ( talk) 15:55, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Symphonic metal is fringe theory, they are symphonic metal, rarely. Very rarely. I have removed it. Someone by the name of Secret Door seems to be very opposed to Evanescence's involvement in gothic metal, but it's not their place to say. Alternative metal, nu metal, and gothic metal are the most important ones. As nobody's fighting as bad as I've seen for many other articles, I'm willing to be vigilant as really these are the only genres that have been described in detail by a majority of sources. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 15:15, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Someone added them and I see it wasn't immediately taken down. Well, I propose we leave them up there for one week and see just how many people war over them. If we get too many, we'll go back to the old way. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 16:43, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
"These are not minor sources!" Fine, I'll add both in there and see if that solves the problem. "By the way, the infobox instructions tell us to avoid putting something in the infobox that links to an article section." I'd kindly like to ask you to prove that. It was a tried-and-true solution. WP:OR says we shouldn't automatically label all their albums/songs alt metal, but we do anyway because of some huge consensus spanning several archives. A special case. Nothing certainly attracts more attention than what was there before, so it seems to be a special case here too. Genre warriors do not tend to pay any attention to the index, just the infobox. What'll it be? dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 02:31, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
No good has ever come from including genres in this article. It is the source for near constant conflict when they are included. — Huntster ( t @ c) 00:27, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Just a note to voice my opinion against inserting the note "See musical style" to replace a list of genres. Either we list a few genres or we keep the parameter empty. This is in accordance with WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE which says "Do not include links to sections within the article; the table of contents provides that function.". Thanks. Binksternet ( talk) 16:44, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
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Do you guys think we should perhaps mention Ben Moody's letter which he wrote about his departure? it's on Evboard. Zhyar Merlin talk 18:07, 12 July 2016
Can someone please add an IPA near the name? I think it's good if it's there, there is one here too. Zhyar Merlin ( talk) 09:41, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
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Isn't Amy also a songwriter? If so, should the article mention that as well since it is a part of her profession? Alanna.davis ( talk) 16:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I need a history lesson before I make any other proposals about the genre. Has this "edit-warring" been mostly IPs and newly created users who claim to know everything and know actually nothing? Or are there often experienced users calling sources into question and taking real initiative in their arguments?
I am aware that a lot of the involved editors have concerns about its stability if we add anything. But if this is a GA (which I hope I can get now that I fixed spots missing cites), I believe it would be awkward to leave it simply blank and expect them to read a whole section. We can just make it so messing with that is impossible (this is, of course, only if the warring gets out of hand after we implement this in the first place). Outside of that, vigilance will be key, but hopefully we won't need it much. This will preserve stability. If anyone provided me counter-examples, I'd be inclined to argue the same case on said example.
None of their faces are shown clearly in the current picture. I suggest to use the older one and wait until someone takes an appropriate picture of the band.— Lost Whispers talk 13:32, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
I am thinking about retracting the GA nomination because the page is somewhat likely to be a bit unstable when the review comes. What do you guys think? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 22:12, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
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Genre warring has been a problem here, so until now they've been removed - but I am here to promote a push for resistance because I personally believe the current consensus is a poor decision. What genres fit the page best based on reliable sources that are either here already or are available for inclusion? To understand completely, I recommend you read all this. 16:51, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
I'll begin. This article used to have incessant genre wars that were incredibly disruptive to the project. To a degree, the page still sees a fair amount of it. However, genre warriors are no reason to capitulate having the genres there. There is rarely any activity that calls for expansion on the article to be disrupted, and it's now a quality article. I made sure to get this done first so I could avoid stability issues. So no matter how otherwise disruptive they may be, I have seen much worse come to reasonable resolution; System of a Down is whitelocked with "pending changes" (which a standard semi should be the worst it'll get); Mudvayne's nu metal dispute has settled down, and HIM (GA) has become so saturated with sources for goth that fans seem to believe it and their "Love Metal" argument is completely dead.
In Evanescence's case, I believe the vandalism will continue at the same rate whether we have them or not. We have them consistently ignoring the notice as if they don't know how to read and adding/changing genres to their own personal preference. It definitely is not as bad as some others as I've seen. I believe that withholding this from the infobox is withholding valuable information that you should be able to get quickly. If things get out of hand, we have protections available to intervene and we can answer requests here or just use pending changes. A genre war between anons and the main contributors is not a stability concern. We must not give in to the vandals. The other people who contribute to Evanescence's WikiProject remain resistant to that statement.
Now, we just need to agree on a position in which the most important, most-cited information from critics is represented. Nu metal and gothic rock and/or gothic metal have consistently been attributed to the band in recordings and as a whole. There was allegedly consensus for a long time to list all recordings except a select few as at least alternative metal (recently unofficially transitioned to if nu metal, its subgenre, is cited it's listed instead). While alt metal is attributed to the group itself, only one recording has been listed as such (See Fallen, 2003). But that never happened on the main page - they say because it's inaccurate. Sure, it's not completely just alt metal, but it's a general overview of the rest of the ways they've been described; I'd even be okay with that. I personally think a combined solution of their albums and overall style, with more weight on their individual style, would be best to implement. Looking forward to feedback. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 16:51, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for advice, stick to the Simple English page for genres, everyone! 👍🏽 MarilynMansonFan96 ( talk) 06:45, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
I think it is wrong for the genre field to be left blank. I think it is best to keep it simple. Such as having Heavy metal, Hard rock, Alternative rock, and Gothic rock being the genres in the info box. Just a thought. Dekai Averett ( talk) 00:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
@ Huntster: then why not delete the genre parameter in the first place?--◂ épine talk♬ 15:09, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I think their should be infobox genres present but try to aim for generality. Something like this:
Dekai Averett ( talk) 02:20, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
On IMDB site, under personal quotes from Amy Lee. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1341624/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
"We're definitely a rock band, but the twist is that the band's music is epic, dramatic, dark rock." - on Evanescence.
If the lead singer of the band can't be a trusted source as to what genre they are, then who else could be? 32.212.102.239 ( talk) 01:06, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
I am starting a discussion on the infobox image because this edit war needs to stop, and I would like input from other editors. The addition of the new image keeps getting reverted by @ 151.43.14.167: and @ 195.32.87.171: without explanation and I would like to know why. Instead of edit warring without explaining, tell me why we should have the old photo instead of the new one. They are on par with each other quality wise so we might as well use the new one. What is wrong with the new image. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:26, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
John LeCompt was the lead guitarist for evanescence but he also was the rhythm guitarist for evanescence when Ben moody was the lead guitarist for evanescence when Ben moody left the band in 2003 John LeCompt switch from rhythm guitar to lead guitar and Terry balsamo took the rhythm guitar spot 31.94.20.60 ( talk) 14:04, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
I think it's time that we reach a consensus on the genres. This is a Good Article and I feel the genres should have been settled before it reached that status. Here are some suggestions for inclusion in the infobox: gothic metal, alternative metal, nu metal, hard rock, alternative rock, gothic rock, post-grunge, and symphonic metal.
Obviously, not all of these genres will be included. We can narrow it down to four or five from here. These are all the genres that are sourced in the article. Bowling is life ( talk) 03:32, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
There is no consensus. Genres are based on characteristics. There are books for Metal. There are books for Goth. And this is NOT Goth and never was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.70.206.102 ( talk) 19:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
@ 217.70.206.102: There is a consensus, look at the discussion in the section. Genres are based on sources, not editor opinion. Do not remove sourced genres just because you disagree with them being listed. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:50, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
The most highly-referenced genres for the band and their discography - not just one album or a few songs - are the four currently present: Alternative metal, gothic rock, gothic metal, hard rock. Industrial rock would likely be the next most cited by RS's for the discography. I support the inclusion of Industrial rock in the infobox as, per reliable sources, industrial and electronic music are significant components in the band's overall sound, with every album incorporating industrial/electronic elements. Per RS's, classical/symphonic music is also integral to the band's overall sound; apart from an album (Synthesis) being fully symphonic, RS's have noted orchestral/symphonic components in every album, however I don't believe this can be present in the infobox. Lapadite ( talk) 12:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
As for nu metal, which is largely attributed to the debut by majority of RS's (a number of which have written that the band evolved from that genre thereafter and "survived" debuting in that nu metal era), I'd only support its inclusion in the infobox if it's qualified with "(early)" beside it, as per majority of RS's. Lapadite ( talk) 14:08, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Bowling is life, you've removed the "(early)" note next to nu metal several times ( [4], [5], [6], [7]), merely repeating the same edit summary, and ignoring that cited sources in the Musical style section refer to this genre as being largely exclusive to the first album and describe the rest of the discography under different genres. Therefore, the inclusion of this genre in the infobox should reflect that, otherwise it can imply that it's significantly present across the band's discography. Repeatedly removing this without an explanation to support your removal is considered disruptive. Surely you know this kind of genre note is used in many articles on WP, specifically for artists who, per sources, have not significantly incorporated an early album genre into the rest of the discography. Lapadite ( talk) 06:14, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
Noting that this was resolved in the above Genre consensus discussion. Lapadite ( talk) 04:51, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
the time line needs to change to:
the changes conform to how timelines are made in other pages. Also as Lee is the lead singer and also keyboardist and is credited as so on album liner notes, vocals should be before keyboards, I can see why there is protest to this as lead vocals and harp are the same colour. if editors have issues with this proposal then can it be addressed. 80s Sam ( talk) 11:07, 18 April 2023 (UTC)