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![]() | On 27 December 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Harden–Eulenburg affair to Eulenburg affair. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I ran across this interesting article. When I noticed many minor errors of spelling and word order, I started to do some minor copyediting. I realized the text raised questions in my mind that ought to be answered for the text to make sense to the average reader. I started to try to guess the answers and put them into the text (see first 2 paragraphs) and beginning of third, but got bogged down in the third. Perhaps the author would be kind enough to provide the following answers within the text:
Anyway, the story is good enough to deserve a clearer article for those of us for which this is unfamiliar territory. If you can answer the questions, I'll be happy to copyedit and buff. alteripse 00:22, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, the article is clearly in a great many details now. I may go to the library and attempt to find the answers I do not have, but it may take a while. Hyacinth 23:49, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for taking my questions in spirit intended. Again, interesting article. I'll await the details. alteripse 03:02, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Who is Scheefer? And what is Brand's full name? -- 64.231.225.245 04:52, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Also, what year did the Initial incident occur? Hyacinth 08:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the lack of dates in the first part is confusing. The death of Hulsen-Haeseler happened
14 November 1908, while the first libel trials had taken place in 1907. I suggest the first paragraph
be rearranged later in the article with a precis of Wilhelms reaction and action.. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Cmax205 (
talk •
contribs)
20:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I have had some familiarity with this case as part of the history of Wilhelminian Germany. But this page is impossible. I am a stickler when it comes to grammar, and this page is a perfect reason why. A good ten percent of the sentences are unclear because of poor grammar. I don't know who wrote the initial article, but could you please mention the sources?? That way anyone who is interested can access facts that seem unclear here. I could add to the excellent list of initial questions on this Talk Page (which illustrates why proper grammar is an essential aid to clear communication), at least twenty more things I could not understand, because the writing is unclear. And at least half of the time, the answer or revised text has not solved the initial question at all. "District attorney, "Imperialism," etc. etc. Sentences that are misleading. Sentences that cannot be understood at all as written. (And don't criticize me for sentence fragments :) ) Please. Sources at the bottom. A decent bibliography (one or two books or essays). Thank you. 66.108.4.183 08:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
"Harden later told Hirschfeld that the Affair was the greatest political mistake of his life, like many later observers, attributing the Affair as the root cause of World War I and the fall of the Second Reich, inevitable without Eulenburg's moderating influence."
Do you really think that, if William II would have been more pampered by Eulenburg, WWI would have been avoidable?? Perhaps I should take more attention for my sexlife...(rs)
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
80.136.176.132 (
talk) 06:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I imagine he means that Eulenberg was one of the few people who might have talked some sense into Wilhelm, who was generally notorious for getting rid of anyone who disagreed with him. According to Massie's book, Bulow (state secretary then chancellor) never ever said anything Wilhelm would disagree with, and if he discovered that he had he would immediately retract it 30 seconds later. Which is how he hung on to his job for 12 years. I was reading some quotes which Bulow wrote about meeting Wilhelm. I thought they were a bit extraordinary, but given the content of this article I would assume he fell in love with William.
Sandpiper (
talk)
16:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to know more about this. Are there any good English-language books which cover the affair in detail? Drutt ( talk) 03:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth ( talk) 01:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 16:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Harden–Eulenburg Affair → Harden–Eulenburg affair – Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization, per MOS:CAPS. Most sources don't capitalize affair for this (see books), so caps are obviously not necessary. Dicklyon ( talk) 04:02, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Is there any connection with one of the other supposed causes of WW1 - a group of highly-placed gay leather-and-uniform fetishists in the Foreign Department? These were close friends with the Crown Prince, and are said to have helped to whip-up the military hysteria in Berlin 1913-14. Valetude ( talk) 15:01, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested move request. ( non-admin closure) Colonestarrice ( talk) 11:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Harden–Eulenburg affair → Eulenburg affair – Clear WP:COMMONNAME. For example, there are 46 results for the current title on Google Scholar compared to 349 results for the proposed title. The title of the main book in English about this event is The Eulenburg Affair: A Cultural History of Politics in the German Empire (2015) ( t · c) buidhe 22:29, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2023 and 22 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Svenukm (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Nyxtingale ( talk) 16:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 27 December 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Harden–Eulenburg affair to Eulenburg affair. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I ran across this interesting article. When I noticed many minor errors of spelling and word order, I started to do some minor copyediting. I realized the text raised questions in my mind that ought to be answered for the text to make sense to the average reader. I started to try to guess the answers and put them into the text (see first 2 paragraphs) and beginning of third, but got bogged down in the third. Perhaps the author would be kind enough to provide the following answers within the text:
Anyway, the story is good enough to deserve a clearer article for those of us for which this is unfamiliar territory. If you can answer the questions, I'll be happy to copyedit and buff. alteripse 00:22, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Thanks, the article is clearly in a great many details now. I may go to the library and attempt to find the answers I do not have, but it may take a while. Hyacinth 23:49, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for taking my questions in spirit intended. Again, interesting article. I'll await the details. alteripse 03:02, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Who is Scheefer? And what is Brand's full name? -- 64.231.225.245 04:52, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Also, what year did the Initial incident occur? Hyacinth 08:00, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the lack of dates in the first part is confusing. The death of Hulsen-Haeseler happened
14 November 1908, while the first libel trials had taken place in 1907. I suggest the first paragraph
be rearranged later in the article with a precis of Wilhelms reaction and action.. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Cmax205 (
talk •
contribs)
20:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I have had some familiarity with this case as part of the history of Wilhelminian Germany. But this page is impossible. I am a stickler when it comes to grammar, and this page is a perfect reason why. A good ten percent of the sentences are unclear because of poor grammar. I don't know who wrote the initial article, but could you please mention the sources?? That way anyone who is interested can access facts that seem unclear here. I could add to the excellent list of initial questions on this Talk Page (which illustrates why proper grammar is an essential aid to clear communication), at least twenty more things I could not understand, because the writing is unclear. And at least half of the time, the answer or revised text has not solved the initial question at all. "District attorney, "Imperialism," etc. etc. Sentences that are misleading. Sentences that cannot be understood at all as written. (And don't criticize me for sentence fragments :) ) Please. Sources at the bottom. A decent bibliography (one or two books or essays). Thank you. 66.108.4.183 08:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
"Harden later told Hirschfeld that the Affair was the greatest political mistake of his life, like many later observers, attributing the Affair as the root cause of World War I and the fall of the Second Reich, inevitable without Eulenburg's moderating influence."
Do you really think that, if William II would have been more pampered by Eulenburg, WWI would have been avoidable?? Perhaps I should take more attention for my sexlife...(rs)
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
80.136.176.132 (
talk) 06:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I imagine he means that Eulenberg was one of the few people who might have talked some sense into Wilhelm, who was generally notorious for getting rid of anyone who disagreed with him. According to Massie's book, Bulow (state secretary then chancellor) never ever said anything Wilhelm would disagree with, and if he discovered that he had he would immediately retract it 30 seconds later. Which is how he hung on to his job for 12 years. I was reading some quotes which Bulow wrote about meeting Wilhelm. I thought they were a bit extraordinary, but given the content of this article I would assume he fell in love with William.
Sandpiper (
talk)
16:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to know more about this. Are there any good English-language books which cover the affair in detail? Drutt ( talk) 03:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Why, what, where, and how does this article need additional citations for verification? Hyacinth ( talk) 01:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 16:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Harden–Eulenburg Affair → Harden–Eulenburg affair – Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization, per MOS:CAPS. Most sources don't capitalize affair for this (see books), so caps are obviously not necessary. Dicklyon ( talk) 04:02, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Is there any connection with one of the other supposed causes of WW1 - a group of highly-placed gay leather-and-uniform fetishists in the Foreign Department? These were close friends with the Crown Prince, and are said to have helped to whip-up the military hysteria in Berlin 1913-14. Valetude ( talk) 15:01, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Harden–Eulenburg affair. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:19, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Uncontested move request. ( non-admin closure) Colonestarrice ( talk) 11:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
Harden–Eulenburg affair → Eulenburg affair – Clear WP:COMMONNAME. For example, there are 46 results for the current title on Google Scholar compared to 349 results for the proposed title. The title of the main book in English about this event is The Eulenburg Affair: A Cultural History of Politics in the German Empire (2015) ( t · c) buidhe 22:29, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2023 and 22 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Svenukm (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Nyxtingale ( talk) 16:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)