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Can we have some documentation on this, the cult being forbidden by ALexander III? The Catholic still celebrates Eric's feast on May 18, and he is listed in the Roman Martyrology. He is venerated as a holy king and a martyr.
Name?
How come the article is named Eric IX of Sweden? Im no expert, but was he really called "IX" during his lifetime? Theres no way that there could have been eight kings named Eric before him, så why the number nine?
According to the namin policy, the name that the person is most known as should be used. In sweden that is "Erik den Helige", but what is it in the rest of the world? I dont know, usually I read swedish history in swedish...
The numbering scheme is due to
Johannes Magnus, who counted Jordanes'
Berig as Eric I. He invented a bunch of kings in his history of Sweden. According the the article
Eric in Nordisk Familjebok, he assigned the number IX to Eric the Saint, as is done here too. This scheme was adopted by
Eric XIV of Sweden and is still used by
Carl XVI Gustav of Sweden. However, for the earlier Erics, enwp is out of step with Johannes Magnus. /
Pieter Kuiper (
talk)
21:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)reply
Removed Saint links
Eric does not fall into category of saints as defined in the respective
Saint article in Wikipedia. So I removed the Saint categories from him. --
Drieakko14:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)reply
He is however regarded as a saint, and the inclusion of that category is the way that the Saints project can keep track of the article. The project has recently expanded its scope to include all those who are commemorated in liturgical calendars, and the article makes it clear that this individual is so commemorated. I have on that basis restored a saints category. The article in question is however being worked on, and I may try to change the category to another later.
John Carter19:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Drieakko: You're dead wrong. Saint Eric of Sweden has an entry in the Roman Martyrology of the Catholic Church, and has an entry in several authoritative collections of Catholic saints' lives, for instance Butler's Lives of the Saints, which is quasi-official.
DominvsVobiscvm (
talk)
08:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Requested move 22 June 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The name variant with "k" would be more consistent with the article title for his son
Knut Eriksson (recently moved).
However,
Google Trends shows that in searches the name "Saint Eric" dominates.
The choice between "Saint Eric" and "Saint Erik" seems to depend on how we weight the searches vs. sources. My suggestion is to follow the sources, but I find the other alternative also acceptable.
—
Jähmefyysikko (
talk)
21:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The guideline for saints,
MOS:SAINTS, allows prefixing the name with "Saint" if the bare name is ambiguous, although it does warn about NPOV. If he was only called Saint or "Holy" in Catholic contexts, I would fully agree that the suggested title is unacceptable. But secular sources also call him Saint Erik or in Swedish Erik den helige. For example,
Cambridge History of Scandinavia,
Swedish National Biography,
Swedish Royal Court.
The sainthood here is of a peculiar sort, so comparison to a more churchly saints must be done with caution. He only reigned very briefly, and not much of him is known as a historical person. Yet he is one of the better known early Swedish kings because of the sainthood which was used to legitimize the monarchy. The Bjälbo kings in particular portrayed him as their holy ancestor. Most of the sources that we have of him, e.g. the hagiographical Erikslegenden, list of kings in Västgöta Law, and Sverris saga, discuss him as a saint.
Let me also note that the current title is non-neutral in another way: the ordinal IX is based on 16th century pseudohistory that portrayed Sweden as more ancient than it actually is, and such posthumously applied numerals are often avoided in modern scholarship. The most neutral title would be
Erik Jedvardsson, but that's unfortunately not a
WP:COMMONNAME.
Jähmefyysikko (
talk)
07:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)reply
1. The Cambridge Medieval History calls him St Erik exclusivelly when mentioning his religious relevance. 2. Eric IX has become a common name even if it is not correct.
Borsoka (
talk)
08:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)reply
1. I did not find the exact book you refer to, but I can believe that. Typically, history-oriented works introduce him neutrally as either Erik Jedvarsson or plain Erik. But there's very little to be said about the historical person, and the bulk of the discussion necessarily focuses on the Saint/Cult/National symbol, which is the more notable topic.
2. It is relatively common, but Saint Erik is more common since 1950s (
Ngram). Curiously, many of the
GBooks hits for Eric IX come from saintly literature, whereas
"Saint Erik" is used in more scholarly discussions (but is also found in Tourist guides etc).
An additional point: All the Scandinavian encyclopedias and biographical dictionaries use some variant of the name Erik the Holy, so calling him "saint" or "holy" not seem to be considered very controversial locally.
[1][2][3][4][5][6]
Support per nom and to get rid of pseudohistoric numeral. I note that "Eric the holy" has some releavnt useage as well
[7], but less than "Saint Erik".
Andejons (
talk)
10:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. A fuller ngrams search with all the variants
[8] confirms that Saint Erik with a K is more common than with a C and than Eric IX/Erik IX.
Rosbif73 (
talk)
07:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saints, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Saints and other individuals commemorated in
Christianliturgical calendars on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SaintsWikipedia:WikiProject SaintsTemplate:WikiProject SaintsSaints articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sweden, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sweden-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SwedenWikipedia:WikiProject SwedenTemplate:WikiProject SwedenSweden articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Norse history and culture, a
WikiProject related to all activities of the
NorthGermanic peoples, both in
Scandinavia and abroad, prior to the formation of the
Kalmar Union in 1397. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Norse history and cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Norse history and cultureTemplate:WikiProject Norse history and cultureNorse history and culture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Can we have some documentation on this, the cult being forbidden by ALexander III? The Catholic still celebrates Eric's feast on May 18, and he is listed in the Roman Martyrology. He is venerated as a holy king and a martyr.
Name?
How come the article is named Eric IX of Sweden? Im no expert, but was he really called "IX" during his lifetime? Theres no way that there could have been eight kings named Eric before him, så why the number nine?
According to the namin policy, the name that the person is most known as should be used. In sweden that is "Erik den Helige", but what is it in the rest of the world? I dont know, usually I read swedish history in swedish...
The numbering scheme is due to
Johannes Magnus, who counted Jordanes'
Berig as Eric I. He invented a bunch of kings in his history of Sweden. According the the article
Eric in Nordisk Familjebok, he assigned the number IX to Eric the Saint, as is done here too. This scheme was adopted by
Eric XIV of Sweden and is still used by
Carl XVI Gustav of Sweden. However, for the earlier Erics, enwp is out of step with Johannes Magnus. /
Pieter Kuiper (
talk)
21:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)reply
Removed Saint links
Eric does not fall into category of saints as defined in the respective
Saint article in Wikipedia. So I removed the Saint categories from him. --
Drieakko14:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)reply
He is however regarded as a saint, and the inclusion of that category is the way that the Saints project can keep track of the article. The project has recently expanded its scope to include all those who are commemorated in liturgical calendars, and the article makes it clear that this individual is so commemorated. I have on that basis restored a saints category. The article in question is however being worked on, and I may try to change the category to another later.
John Carter19:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)reply
Drieakko: You're dead wrong. Saint Eric of Sweden has an entry in the Roman Martyrology of the Catholic Church, and has an entry in several authoritative collections of Catholic saints' lives, for instance Butler's Lives of the Saints, which is quasi-official.
DominvsVobiscvm (
talk)
08:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)reply
Requested move 22 June 2024
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The name variant with "k" would be more consistent with the article title for his son
Knut Eriksson (recently moved).
However,
Google Trends shows that in searches the name "Saint Eric" dominates.
The choice between "Saint Eric" and "Saint Erik" seems to depend on how we weight the searches vs. sources. My suggestion is to follow the sources, but I find the other alternative also acceptable.
—
Jähmefyysikko (
talk)
21:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The guideline for saints,
MOS:SAINTS, allows prefixing the name with "Saint" if the bare name is ambiguous, although it does warn about NPOV. If he was only called Saint or "Holy" in Catholic contexts, I would fully agree that the suggested title is unacceptable. But secular sources also call him Saint Erik or in Swedish Erik den helige. For example,
Cambridge History of Scandinavia,
Swedish National Biography,
Swedish Royal Court.
The sainthood here is of a peculiar sort, so comparison to a more churchly saints must be done with caution. He only reigned very briefly, and not much of him is known as a historical person. Yet he is one of the better known early Swedish kings because of the sainthood which was used to legitimize the monarchy. The Bjälbo kings in particular portrayed him as their holy ancestor. Most of the sources that we have of him, e.g. the hagiographical Erikslegenden, list of kings in Västgöta Law, and Sverris saga, discuss him as a saint.
Let me also note that the current title is non-neutral in another way: the ordinal IX is based on 16th century pseudohistory that portrayed Sweden as more ancient than it actually is, and such posthumously applied numerals are often avoided in modern scholarship. The most neutral title would be
Erik Jedvardsson, but that's unfortunately not a
WP:COMMONNAME.
Jähmefyysikko (
talk)
07:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)reply
1. The Cambridge Medieval History calls him St Erik exclusivelly when mentioning his religious relevance. 2. Eric IX has become a common name even if it is not correct.
Borsoka (
talk)
08:06, 23 June 2024 (UTC)reply
1. I did not find the exact book you refer to, but I can believe that. Typically, history-oriented works introduce him neutrally as either Erik Jedvarsson or plain Erik. But there's very little to be said about the historical person, and the bulk of the discussion necessarily focuses on the Saint/Cult/National symbol, which is the more notable topic.
2. It is relatively common, but Saint Erik is more common since 1950s (
Ngram). Curiously, many of the
GBooks hits for Eric IX come from saintly literature, whereas
"Saint Erik" is used in more scholarly discussions (but is also found in Tourist guides etc).
An additional point: All the Scandinavian encyclopedias and biographical dictionaries use some variant of the name Erik the Holy, so calling him "saint" or "holy" not seem to be considered very controversial locally.
[1][2][3][4][5][6]
Support per nom and to get rid of pseudohistoric numeral. I note that "Eric the holy" has some releavnt useage as well
[7], but less than "Saint Erik".
Andejons (
talk)
10:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. A fuller ngrams search with all the variants
[8] confirms that Saint Erik with a K is more common than with a C and than Eric IX/Erik IX.
Rosbif73 (
talk)
07:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.