A news item involving Eric Brown (pilot) was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 24 February 2016. |
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Amongst his portfolio is the Me-163, a rocket-powered aircraft. I understand that US servicepeople who travel into space are eligible for an astronaut's badge; is there some kind of international recognition for piloting a rocket (albeit in the atmosphere)? The act of flying on a rocket is still fairly exclusive, and it sounds like the kind of thing that would come to the attention of the international aviation community. I imagine that the RAF does not have a rocketeers' award, but I could be wrong. - Ashley Pomeroy ( talk) 16:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
What a poor choice of name. 8-( Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
The article doesn't say. Moriori ( talk) 22:04, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
==National Geographic reader. Was he really the first to land a jet aircraft on an aircraft carrier?=--lbeben 23:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
All for me available sources say Brown landed with a Mosquito on 25 March 1944 on HMS Indefatigable. -- Rakell ( talk) 17:42, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi Martinevans123, excuse my late answer. I am very seldom in the english Wikipedia. In the link given by 80.7.147.13 you find on page 207 of FLIGHT from FEBRUARY 28TH, I946 the following: "The trials were carried out on March 25th and 26th, 1944, from H.M.S. Indefatigable, and the Mosquito L.R. 359 was piloted by Lt. Cdr. E. M. Brown" and in the book A CENTURY OF CARRIER AVIATION from David Hobbs you find on page 186 as a description of a picture of the Mosquito landing: "The first carrier landing by a twin-engine aircraft. Lieutenant Commander Eric Brown lands a Mosquito FB.VI on HMS Indefatigable on 25 March 1944." I change now the article to this information. -- Rakell ( talk) 10:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Brown's altitude is queried [3]
AIUI, the DH.108 had behaved itself at high altitude (40,000 feet) and resultant high Mach (for the same airspeed) but had failed for de Havilland at a much lower altitude where he was chasing a higher absolute speed whilst avoiding the Mach issues. I haven't removed this query though, because I thought de Havilland was at something like 10,000 feet, not 4,000 and so it's not clear if this is Brown being even lower (maybe to try and reproduce the problem) or if it is indeed a simple digit placement typo from 40. Sources anyone? Andy Dingley ( talk) 19:22, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
The BBC http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30039300 gives his title/awards: "Captain Eric Melrose Brown CBE, DSC, AFC, KCVSA, PhD Hon FRAeS, RN is his full title." (added by User:DaPi).
Anybody have any idea when Brown was promoted to OBE, he received an MBE in 1944 and was an OBE by the time ge got his AFC in 1947 ? MilborneOne ( talk) 19:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
There are no post nominals for the King's Commendation for Valuable Services in the Air. The KCVSA is indeed made up by someone who clearly had no idea what they were talking about. For reference, the official guidance is here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.199.40.213 ( talk) 15:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
"He first flew when he was eight or ten when he was taken up in a Gloster Gauntlet by his father." If Brown was born in 1919, he would have been eight in 1927 and ten in 1929. According to our article, the Gauntlet entered service in 1935. Alansplodge ( talk) 17:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Eric Brown (pilot) which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Well done to everyone who's put so much into this article since Brown's death. The general trend of the edits has been one of great improvement. Now, I really can't be ****ed to go and fillet it out of the page history, but I especially wanted to thank whoever sorted out the mess about which most-decorated pilot, alive or dead, he was ... in the Navy or the FAA or both or whatever. That was a tricky little shambles until quite recently and was driving me nuts, and is now elegantly sorted. So thanks. With best wishes to all DBaK ( talk) 20:43, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
A nitpick, I know, but I can't get the gist of this:
The RFC merged with the RNAS to become the RAF in 1919, the Year Eric Brown was born. So which RFC pilot is being discussed?
~~Andy~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loates Jr ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
In the Wartime Services section, it is stated ...
″Next operational once again, in 1943, he then went back to the RAE, this time to perform experimental flying″
However, this is the first mention of the RAE. His time at the RAE is then expanded in subsequent paras.
A clarification on the correct sequence of Eric's employment with the RAE - when/why/how he was initially posted there etc. - would improve this article.
Once resolved, there will also need to be a correction to expand the first occurrence to Royal Aircraft Establishment in full.
MrEckLeckTick ( talk) 14:31, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
There's a fascinating 1979 interview on early transonic flight with Eric Brown here: [15]
In this edit, the soured claim that "He was also the most-decorated pilot in the history of the Royal Navy" was removed with the edit summary: "It is incorrect to say that Eric Brown was the "most decorated pilot in the history of the Royal Navy". Robert A. Little ( /info/en/?search=Robert_A._Little) is the most decorated Royal Navy pilot in history. His multiple awards easily outdo ." I'm really not sure who ranks higher in terms of awards. Both had multiple awards. But the source used to support the claim, Kevin Ralwnson in The Guardian, looks like a reliable one? I can see no exactly similar claim at Robert A. Little, but there is a claim that he was the "most successful Australian flying ace" and "As well as the eighth most successful Commonwealth ace of World War I, and the ranking RNAS ace, this score made him the most prolific Australian ace of all time, ahead of Stan Dallas with an official score of thirty-nine..." (is there a word missing before "ranking" there?) Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Who said anything about points? If you are holding the keys to edits at least try and get an understanding of what is being said and not resort to puerile responses. The order of precedence is there for a reason. My response above clearly outlines how the decorations of Robert Little are "worth more" than those of Eric Brown. Number one in the order of precedence is the Victoria Cross, followed by the George Cross and so on. If you were to use your simplistic view of this, the VC would be worth 100 points, the GC 99 points and so on until you reach the King's Commendation for valuable service in the air at 57 points. So using this ludicrous points system you have come up with, Eric Brown's points are DSC (82), AFC (79) King's Commendation...(57) so that is a total of 218. In contrast Robert Little would have DSO (90*2=180), DSC (82*2=164), MID (59) with a total of 403. The French Croix de guerre is a foreign award and holds no weighting in the British order of precedence. As I have repeatedly said, Eric Brown isn't even close to being the most decorated Royal Navy pilot. I suggest if you are going to deny edits you should understand what you are denying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.199.40.213 ( talk) 04:13, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
I have just changed a reference from a now-defunct web page, to page-98 of Wings on my Sleeve. I suspect the other reference was cribbed from Wings on my Sleeve. Brown was shocked by the conditions at Belsen. Given his relationship with Germans, particularly some Nazis, it clearly disturbed him. Brown interviewed Kramer and Griese (Brown's spelling) at the request of medical Brigadier Glyn Hughes. He does not describe the contents of the interview. He may have asked "Where is the food and medical supplies?" for all we know. His assessment of them as "loathsome creatures" may be based on the interviews, or it may be based on the conditions of the camp they ran. JHowardGibson ( talk) 15:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
The recently released 1921 Scottish Census lists Eric Brown, born London, age 2 years 6 months, adopted son of Robert J and Euphemia Brown, living at 269 Leith Walk, South Leith, Edinburgh. Census image is available from the Scotland's People website. Complete source citation exists at Capt Brown's WikiTree profile, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brown-9509. Due to statutory privacy restrictions, this information was not available previously. Conflicting information in previous existing sources far removed in time from the actual event (biographies, obituaries, etc) is incorrect and was not verifiable before publication of the 1921 Census. Also, please note that the Birth Registration database at Scotland's People has no entry for Eric, son of Robert and Euphemia Brown, which it naturally would not have for a child born outside Scotland. Therefore, the 1921 Census is the earliest documentation of Capt Brown's birth and should supersede subsequent unverified sources. Another editor updated the article with this information, but it has since been reverted. I hope the interested Projects will look into this issue and correct the article as appropriate. MundoMango ( talk) 20:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
The top of this page says that Brown made the first landing, but there are sources on the page for the Potez 56 that state that aircraft made the first landing, many years before. Needs clarifying? TheHamSack ( talk) 17:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
A news item involving Eric Brown (pilot) was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 24 February 2016. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Amongst his portfolio is the Me-163, a rocket-powered aircraft. I understand that US servicepeople who travel into space are eligible for an astronaut's badge; is there some kind of international recognition for piloting a rocket (albeit in the atmosphere)? The act of flying on a rocket is still fairly exclusive, and it sounds like the kind of thing that would come to the attention of the international aviation community. I imagine that the RAF does not have a rocketeers' award, but I could be wrong. - Ashley Pomeroy ( talk) 16:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
What a poor choice of name. 8-( Andy Dingley ( talk) 15:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
The article doesn't say. Moriori ( talk) 22:04, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
==National Geographic reader. Was he really the first to land a jet aircraft on an aircraft carrier?=--lbeben 23:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
All for me available sources say Brown landed with a Mosquito on 25 March 1944 on HMS Indefatigable. -- Rakell ( talk) 17:42, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Hi Martinevans123, excuse my late answer. I am very seldom in the english Wikipedia. In the link given by 80.7.147.13 you find on page 207 of FLIGHT from FEBRUARY 28TH, I946 the following: "The trials were carried out on March 25th and 26th, 1944, from H.M.S. Indefatigable, and the Mosquito L.R. 359 was piloted by Lt. Cdr. E. M. Brown" and in the book A CENTURY OF CARRIER AVIATION from David Hobbs you find on page 186 as a description of a picture of the Mosquito landing: "The first carrier landing by a twin-engine aircraft. Lieutenant Commander Eric Brown lands a Mosquito FB.VI on HMS Indefatigable on 25 March 1944." I change now the article to this information. -- Rakell ( talk) 10:12, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Brown's altitude is queried [3]
AIUI, the DH.108 had behaved itself at high altitude (40,000 feet) and resultant high Mach (for the same airspeed) but had failed for de Havilland at a much lower altitude where he was chasing a higher absolute speed whilst avoiding the Mach issues. I haven't removed this query though, because I thought de Havilland was at something like 10,000 feet, not 4,000 and so it's not clear if this is Brown being even lower (maybe to try and reproduce the problem) or if it is indeed a simple digit placement typo from 40. Sources anyone? Andy Dingley ( talk) 19:22, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
The BBC http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30039300 gives his title/awards: "Captain Eric Melrose Brown CBE, DSC, AFC, KCVSA, PhD Hon FRAeS, RN is his full title." (added by User:DaPi).
Anybody have any idea when Brown was promoted to OBE, he received an MBE in 1944 and was an OBE by the time ge got his AFC in 1947 ? MilborneOne ( talk) 19:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
There are no post nominals for the King's Commendation for Valuable Services in the Air. The KCVSA is indeed made up by someone who clearly had no idea what they were talking about. For reference, the official guidance is here - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibility — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.199.40.213 ( talk) 15:54, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
"He first flew when he was eight or ten when he was taken up in a Gloster Gauntlet by his father." If Brown was born in 1919, he would have been eight in 1927 and ten in 1929. According to our article, the Gauntlet entered service in 1935. Alansplodge ( talk) 17:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Eric Brown (pilot) which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\byoutu\.be\b.*
on the global blacklist\byoutu\.be\b.*
on the global blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:21, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Well done to everyone who's put so much into this article since Brown's death. The general trend of the edits has been one of great improvement. Now, I really can't be ****ed to go and fillet it out of the page history, but I especially wanted to thank whoever sorted out the mess about which most-decorated pilot, alive or dead, he was ... in the Navy or the FAA or both or whatever. That was a tricky little shambles until quite recently and was driving me nuts, and is now elegantly sorted. So thanks. With best wishes to all DBaK ( talk) 20:43, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
A nitpick, I know, but I can't get the gist of this:
The RFC merged with the RNAS to become the RAF in 1919, the Year Eric Brown was born. So which RFC pilot is being discussed?
~~Andy~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loates Jr ( talk • contribs) 13:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
In the Wartime Services section, it is stated ...
″Next operational once again, in 1943, he then went back to the RAE, this time to perform experimental flying″
However, this is the first mention of the RAE. His time at the RAE is then expanded in subsequent paras.
A clarification on the correct sequence of Eric's employment with the RAE - when/why/how he was initially posted there etc. - would improve this article.
Once resolved, there will also need to be a correction to expand the first occurrence to Royal Aircraft Establishment in full.
MrEckLeckTick ( talk) 14:31, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
There's a fascinating 1979 interview on early transonic flight with Eric Brown here: [15]
In this edit, the soured claim that "He was also the most-decorated pilot in the history of the Royal Navy" was removed with the edit summary: "It is incorrect to say that Eric Brown was the "most decorated pilot in the history of the Royal Navy". Robert A. Little ( /info/en/?search=Robert_A._Little) is the most decorated Royal Navy pilot in history. His multiple awards easily outdo ." I'm really not sure who ranks higher in terms of awards. Both had multiple awards. But the source used to support the claim, Kevin Ralwnson in The Guardian, looks like a reliable one? I can see no exactly similar claim at Robert A. Little, but there is a claim that he was the "most successful Australian flying ace" and "As well as the eighth most successful Commonwealth ace of World War I, and the ranking RNAS ace, this score made him the most prolific Australian ace of all time, ahead of Stan Dallas with an official score of thirty-nine..." (is there a word missing before "ranking" there?) Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Who said anything about points? If you are holding the keys to edits at least try and get an understanding of what is being said and not resort to puerile responses. The order of precedence is there for a reason. My response above clearly outlines how the decorations of Robert Little are "worth more" than those of Eric Brown. Number one in the order of precedence is the Victoria Cross, followed by the George Cross and so on. If you were to use your simplistic view of this, the VC would be worth 100 points, the GC 99 points and so on until you reach the King's Commendation for valuable service in the air at 57 points. So using this ludicrous points system you have come up with, Eric Brown's points are DSC (82), AFC (79) King's Commendation...(57) so that is a total of 218. In contrast Robert Little would have DSO (90*2=180), DSC (82*2=164), MID (59) with a total of 403. The French Croix de guerre is a foreign award and holds no weighting in the British order of precedence. As I have repeatedly said, Eric Brown isn't even close to being the most decorated Royal Navy pilot. I suggest if you are going to deny edits you should understand what you are denying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.199.40.213 ( talk) 04:13, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
I have just changed a reference from a now-defunct web page, to page-98 of Wings on my Sleeve. I suspect the other reference was cribbed from Wings on my Sleeve. Brown was shocked by the conditions at Belsen. Given his relationship with Germans, particularly some Nazis, it clearly disturbed him. Brown interviewed Kramer and Griese (Brown's spelling) at the request of medical Brigadier Glyn Hughes. He does not describe the contents of the interview. He may have asked "Where is the food and medical supplies?" for all we know. His assessment of them as "loathsome creatures" may be based on the interviews, or it may be based on the conditions of the camp they ran. JHowardGibson ( talk) 15:41, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
The recently released 1921 Scottish Census lists Eric Brown, born London, age 2 years 6 months, adopted son of Robert J and Euphemia Brown, living at 269 Leith Walk, South Leith, Edinburgh. Census image is available from the Scotland's People website. Complete source citation exists at Capt Brown's WikiTree profile, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brown-9509. Due to statutory privacy restrictions, this information was not available previously. Conflicting information in previous existing sources far removed in time from the actual event (biographies, obituaries, etc) is incorrect and was not verifiable before publication of the 1921 Census. Also, please note that the Birth Registration database at Scotland's People has no entry for Eric, son of Robert and Euphemia Brown, which it naturally would not have for a child born outside Scotland. Therefore, the 1921 Census is the earliest documentation of Capt Brown's birth and should supersede subsequent unverified sources. Another editor updated the article with this information, but it has since been reverted. I hope the interested Projects will look into this issue and correct the article as appropriate. MundoMango ( talk) 20:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
The top of this page says that Brown made the first landing, but there are sources on the page for the Potez 56 that state that aircraft made the first landing, many years before. Needs clarifying? TheHamSack ( talk) 17:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)