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Material on environmentalists/conservationists such as Teddy Roosevelt belongs in entries on environmentalism and conservation, not in entry on environmental history. Pillsbury material not directly relevant to environmental history, so moved to a separate entry. Esbenson 17:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
this article is so embarrasing, somebody please save it.
I am responding to the appeal above. Any kind of re-write is likely to offend editors that have worked on the article as it stands no matter what it might seem like to passing readers and for that I apologise and hope that we can find a way through. I have tried to reorganise content for this article and to incorporate whatever I can from the existing material. I would appreciate any assistance from interested editors although would prefer comments and suggestions to be made here. I will allow a fortnight for comment (unless this is considered too short by other editors) before uploading the new version. There is still a lot of work to be done but you can see the drift of what is being prepared here. Please comment. At the moment I propose working on the new article for about another fortnight nd then putting it up in real time - about 24th Feb. Let me know if this is not OK. Granitethighs 09:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I have put up the new version. I hope editors think it is more informative, encyclopaedic, entertaining and well cited. I will continue to edit it as there is some repetition and tweaking still to be done. Granitethighs 10:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
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I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: fixed on dab, could not resolve John McNeill as no article exists on an environmental historian of that name. Currently directs to disambiguation page listing two politicians and a diplomat. Changed to John McNeill (environmental historian). [1] Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:11, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Linkrot: Found and tagged one dead link. [2] Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I have been asked by User:Granitethighs for further clarification on three things I noted in the review:
This article has a lot of good information, but some problems are evident. The definition/introduction is too long, and sounds way too much like an undergraduate or graduate paper. For example,
As all human experience is grounded in the natural world almost anything might be considered suitable material for research, a situation that acts as an incentive to ground the subject in particular time-scales, geographic regions, or key themes
is verbose, includes specifically academic jargon not in popular usage ("to ground"), and is closer in function to developing a thesis than presenting information. Also, many of the lists are excessive and impede clear understanding for a first-time reader:
Thirdly, how we think about nature – the way our attitudes, beliefs and values influence our interaction with nature, that is, the influence of myths, legends, ideology, aesthetics, religion and science.
The structure is redundant, using first a dash and then "that is" before defining the question "how we think about nature". Too many elements are included. For instance, the distinction between myth and legend could be important in the body of the article, but it is superfluous here.
Other problem sentences include:
Environmental history is history written with the acknowledgment that we shape our environment and it shapes us. use of the first person
Certainly as a strongly multidisciplinary subject it draws widely on both the humanities and natural science and, like all history, it presents us with a considered view of the past from which we have the opportunity to learn. rhetorical use of "certainly", "like all history...to learn" is pompous and adds nothing
Certainly in simple terms it is a history that tries to explain why our environment is like it is and how humanity has influenced its current configuration, as well as elucidating the problems and opportunities of tomorrow. again "certainly", "in simple terms" is neither encyclopedic nor accurate in this context
I could go on, but I hope the issues are clear. Given the uniform style and high quality of information it seems best if the original author, or at least someone well-versed in the field, were to fix the writing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.170.15 ( talk) 23:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
I have been working a bit on article related to malthusianism and wonder if there is somewhere for this type of discussion in this article? As the article is apparently quite complete and structured already I would ask for advice on where information on such a debate could go. I am not formally familiar with environmental history, so am not sure. It seems to be an appropriate topic to at least mention on this page, ie debates between malthusians/neo-malthusians and conucopians, etc.... We could also include a discussion of peak oil and other related debates. Peregrine981 ( talk) 13:51, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I like the article a lot. One point of feedback comes to mind. In the opening sentence the reference to historiography put me off a bit. Is environmental history necessarily historiography rather than just history? Does this really need to be mentioned in the opening sentence? I find it confusing. Chogg ( talk) 19:48, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Text under the fifth image right. Is that a joke? After all, every schoolboy knows Catholic Cristòforo = Cristóbal COLOMBO from Genova who "discovered" America Oct. 12th, 1492, has nothing to do with the Puritan Pilgrim Fathers who founded Boston in 1620.
Nuremberg/Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 15:14, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Text under the fifth image right. Is that a joke? After all, every schoolboy knows Catholic Cristòforo = Cristóbal COLOMBO from Genova who "discovered" America Oct. 12th, 1492, has nothing to do with the Puritan Pilgrim Fathers who founded Boston in 1620.
Nuremberg/ Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 15:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
So much of this article in its current form is in the form of lists of bibliographical references that I think it may be timely and useful to spin off a new, Bibliography of environmental history article, allowing this one to focus more squarely on the synthetic substance of the field. Thoughts? Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld ( talk) 12:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The article lacks some of the German (and French) specific contributions, some of them as Joachim Radkau have been translated (as Nature and Power) and gained some fame as groundbreaking studies in the field ( Bentley Book Prize 2009). Middle Europe and the alpine region have as well a quite diversified tradition on land use and commons, which is not being mirrored in english sources only and they are base of the earliest and politically strongest green movement and ecology studies - including some brown spots in the third reich. Serten ( talk) 08:05, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
There are 2 overlapping lists that need to be merged-any doers? DadaNeem ( talk) 05:01, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
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The article talks pretty much about environmental history from the US perspective, making claims such as "Environmental history emerged in the United States out of the environmental movement of the 1960s and 1970s, and much of its impetus still stems from present-day global environmental concerns.", which is not true (several historians in Latin America have talked about the issue back in the '70s to, so saying that the field emerged in the US is a bold claim). The sources being cited for "Environmental history in different parts of the world" (Africa, Asia, etc.), are mainly US/English speaking scholars, which is like saying that there's no-one in these regions that has produced scholarship on the subject (again, not true). The article does not reflect world perspectives on the subject. Scann ( talk) 16:31, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Environmental history article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Environmental history was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Material on environmentalists/conservationists such as Teddy Roosevelt belongs in entries on environmentalism and conservation, not in entry on environmental history. Pillsbury material not directly relevant to environmental history, so moved to a separate entry. Esbenson 17:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
this article is so embarrasing, somebody please save it.
I am responding to the appeal above. Any kind of re-write is likely to offend editors that have worked on the article as it stands no matter what it might seem like to passing readers and for that I apologise and hope that we can find a way through. I have tried to reorganise content for this article and to incorporate whatever I can from the existing material. I would appreciate any assistance from interested editors although would prefer comments and suggestions to be made here. I will allow a fortnight for comment (unless this is considered too short by other editors) before uploading the new version. There is still a lot of work to be done but you can see the drift of what is being prepared here. Please comment. At the moment I propose working on the new article for about another fortnight nd then putting it up in real time - about 24th Feb. Let me know if this is not OK. Granitethighs 09:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I have put up the new version. I hope editors think it is more informative, encyclopaedic, entertaining and well cited. I will continue to edit it as there is some repetition and tweaking still to be done. Granitethighs 10:47, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:00, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Toolbox |
---|
I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: fixed on dab, could not resolve John McNeill as no article exists on an environmental historian of that name. Currently directs to disambiguation page listing two politicians and a diplomat. Changed to John McNeill (environmental historian). [1] Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:11, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Linkrot: Found and tagged one dead link. [2] Jezhotwells ( talk) 14:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
I have been asked by User:Granitethighs for further clarification on three things I noted in the review:
This article has a lot of good information, but some problems are evident. The definition/introduction is too long, and sounds way too much like an undergraduate or graduate paper. For example,
As all human experience is grounded in the natural world almost anything might be considered suitable material for research, a situation that acts as an incentive to ground the subject in particular time-scales, geographic regions, or key themes
is verbose, includes specifically academic jargon not in popular usage ("to ground"), and is closer in function to developing a thesis than presenting information. Also, many of the lists are excessive and impede clear understanding for a first-time reader:
Thirdly, how we think about nature – the way our attitudes, beliefs and values influence our interaction with nature, that is, the influence of myths, legends, ideology, aesthetics, religion and science.
The structure is redundant, using first a dash and then "that is" before defining the question "how we think about nature". Too many elements are included. For instance, the distinction between myth and legend could be important in the body of the article, but it is superfluous here.
Other problem sentences include:
Environmental history is history written with the acknowledgment that we shape our environment and it shapes us. use of the first person
Certainly as a strongly multidisciplinary subject it draws widely on both the humanities and natural science and, like all history, it presents us with a considered view of the past from which we have the opportunity to learn. rhetorical use of "certainly", "like all history...to learn" is pompous and adds nothing
Certainly in simple terms it is a history that tries to explain why our environment is like it is and how humanity has influenced its current configuration, as well as elucidating the problems and opportunities of tomorrow. again "certainly", "in simple terms" is neither encyclopedic nor accurate in this context
I could go on, but I hope the issues are clear. Given the uniform style and high quality of information it seems best if the original author, or at least someone well-versed in the field, were to fix the writing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.170.15 ( talk) 23:25, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
I have been working a bit on article related to malthusianism and wonder if there is somewhere for this type of discussion in this article? As the article is apparently quite complete and structured already I would ask for advice on where information on such a debate could go. I am not formally familiar with environmental history, so am not sure. It seems to be an appropriate topic to at least mention on this page, ie debates between malthusians/neo-malthusians and conucopians, etc.... We could also include a discussion of peak oil and other related debates. Peregrine981 ( talk) 13:51, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
I like the article a lot. One point of feedback comes to mind. In the opening sentence the reference to historiography put me off a bit. Is environmental history necessarily historiography rather than just history? Does this really need to be mentioned in the opening sentence? I find it confusing. Chogg ( talk) 19:48, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Text under the fifth image right. Is that a joke? After all, every schoolboy knows Catholic Cristòforo = Cristóbal COLOMBO from Genova who "discovered" America Oct. 12th, 1492, has nothing to do with the Puritan Pilgrim Fathers who founded Boston in 1620.
Nuremberg/Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 15:14, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Text under the fifth image right. Is that a joke? After all, every schoolboy knows Catholic Cristòforo = Cristóbal COLOMBO from Genova who "discovered" America Oct. 12th, 1492, has nothing to do with the Puritan Pilgrim Fathers who founded Boston in 1620.
Nuremberg/ Bavaria - Ángel.García2001 ~ ~ ~ ~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.188.3.21 ( talk) 15:16, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
So much of this article in its current form is in the form of lists of bibliographical references that I think it may be timely and useful to spin off a new, Bibliography of environmental history article, allowing this one to focus more squarely on the synthetic substance of the field. Thoughts? Kind regards, DA Sonnenfeld ( talk) 12:39, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The article lacks some of the German (and French) specific contributions, some of them as Joachim Radkau have been translated (as Nature and Power) and gained some fame as groundbreaking studies in the field ( Bentley Book Prize 2009). Middle Europe and the alpine region have as well a quite diversified tradition on land use and commons, which is not being mirrored in english sources only and they are base of the earliest and politically strongest green movement and ecology studies - including some brown spots in the third reich. Serten ( talk) 08:05, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
There are 2 overlapping lists that need to be merged-any doers? DadaNeem ( talk) 05:01, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:11, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:34, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
The article talks pretty much about environmental history from the US perspective, making claims such as "Environmental history emerged in the United States out of the environmental movement of the 1960s and 1970s, and much of its impetus still stems from present-day global environmental concerns.", which is not true (several historians in Latin America have talked about the issue back in the '70s to, so saying that the field emerged in the US is a bold claim). The sources being cited for "Environmental history in different parts of the world" (Africa, Asia, etc.), are mainly US/English speaking scholars, which is like saying that there's no-one in these regions that has produced scholarship on the subject (again, not true). The article does not reflect world perspectives on the subject. Scann ( talk) 16:31, 24 December 2020 (UTC)