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This article lists "Hartbreak Hotel" as Elvis first single recorded in 1956. I believe that his first single was recorded in 1954 and was "Thats All Right" on A side and "Blue Moon of Kentucky" on the B side
70.24.5.7 ( talk) 16:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
To Whom It May Concern,
There is a correction to Elvis Presley's article page: Early Years > Childhood in Tupelo > Paragraph 2 > Line 5: "...was found guilty of altering a CHECK..." should be CHEQUE. I have not made a correction before. I hope this is how it is done. Thank you.
Sindy 41.55.153.224 ( talk) 19:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
This is news to me. Was Elvis known for his relationship with 14 year olds? Have any of Elvis' biographers mentioned this? This seems like a rather controversial point. We certainly should not rush to including it in the article. This section is intended to open a "slow" discussion on the point. Our task is to demonstrate that this issue has solid secondary sources. If it doesn't, then we need to find them before including such info in the article. DonaldRichardSands ( talk) 19:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Dear Binksternet, There have been more books written on Elvis Presley than any other entertainer,and for that reason you have to take extreme care on who you choose as a reliable source and sadly there's not that many. Mentioning Earl Greenwood as being a reliable source on Elvis Presley,is like saying Ian Halperin is a reliable source for Michael Jackson. To me these two authors are best describled as unscrupulous individuals with a vivid imagination. Please do yourself a favour and get yourself a copy of "Revelations Of The Memphis Mafia" by Alanna Nash,read it and then you will understand the topics you have brought forward in its proper contents,okay!-- Jaye9 ( talk) 11:13, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Columnist Liz Smith? Wrote as you pointed out,about Greenwood' theory about Parker had seized these supposed films and used them to Blackmail Elvis into giving Parker a huge percentage and Smith goes on to say "It makes some sense". Well that's the first time I've heard that one and she lost me right there. It reminds me of these conspiracy theorist and these wild things they come up with and they have nothing to back it up with. When you speak of Elvis and fourteen year old girls,it was pretty prevelant in certain parts of the South in those days. It has been said many times that Presley was drawn to 14,15 & 16 year old girls during the early days of his career. As these girls were virgins and made good potential wifes. Someone he could mould into the ideal women. Unlike the girls he met on the road. Quite simply he would not have married them. And it has also been said,during this period he proposed to quite a few of these young girls. I might add,back in 1948,Country singer Loretta Lyn married "Doo" Lyn in Kentucky three months shy of her 13th birthday and yes it was legal. What I am trying to explain is whether we agree with this pratice or not,it is not for us to judge,but more to understand that this is what people did in these parts of the south. It is there culture and Elvis was a part of that culture.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 04:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
There can be no doubt that Elvis's relationships with girls were kind of infantile. This comes as no surprize. Peter Guralnick writes, "Elvis grew up a loved and precious child. He was, everyone agreed, unusually close to his mother." Throughout her life, "the son would call her by pet names, they would communicate by baby talk." Gilbert B. Rodman calls Elvis "the dutiful mama's boy" and mentions, with reference to Guralnick, "the humble modesty of a Dixie-bred mama's boy: In many ways I am sure that the picture is accurate, and it undoubtedly conforms to the image that Elvis Presley had of himself."
Furthermore, Guralnick describes Elvis as a very shy person, as a "kid who had spent scarcely a night away from home in his nineteen years" and who was teased by his fellow classmates: "My older brother went to school with him," recalled singer Barbara Pittman, "and he and some of the other boys used to hide behind buildings and throw things at him - rotten fruit and stuff - because he was different, because he was quiet and he stuttered and he was a mama's boy." These early experiences had a deep influence on his clumsy advances to girls. According to Guralnick, he loved playing with the girls and teasing them, but "it didn't go too far. ... In between shows at the auditorium he would peek out from behind the curtain, then, when he spotted someone that he liked, swagger over to the concession stand, place his arm over her shoulder, and drape his other arm around someone else, acting almost like he was drunk, even though everyone knew he didn't drink." It is no wonder then that Elvis's early girlfriends June Juanico and Judy Spreckels say they had no sexual relationships with Presley.
Concerning the adult singer, Guralnick writes that when Elvis "got bored he just had to tell the guys to hunt up some girls in the lobby of the hotel. He would have them brought up to the suite, offered one observer, "and Elvis would go in the other room, he'd go in the bedroom or somewhere, and then when they came back with the girls, the girls would sit there for maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and finally one of the cousins would go in the bedroom and come out himself and another ten minutes would go by - and then in would come Elvis. And there would be like a silence, and then the cousins would say, 'Oh, Mary Jane, this is Elvis,' and the girls would be totally gone." For the most experienced girls it wasn't like with other Hollywood stars or even with other more sophisticated boys they knew. They offered to do things for him, but he wasn't really interested. What he liked to do was to lie in bed and watch television and eat and talk all night—the companionship seemed as important for him as the sex—and then in the early-morning hours they would make love [editorial note: How should the author know what was really going on in the bedroom? Many girls say they were only talking there]. "He had an innocence at that time", said one of them. "I'm sure it didn't last. But what he really wanted was to have a relationship, to have company."
In their Playboy article, "In Bed with Elvis" (November 2005), Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash have stated that "the so-called dangerous rock-and-roll idol was anything but a despotic ruler in the bedroom ... He was far more interested in heavy petting and panting and groaning" and "he would never put himself inside one of these girls ... within minutes he’d be asleep." According to Goldman, the reason for "never [having] normal sexual relations with these girls" was that "Elvis was a voyeur. What he sought as his erotic goal was a group of girls who would agree to strip down to their panties and wrestle with each other..."
According to Alan Fortas, who knew the singer well, "Elvis needed someone to baby more than he needed a sex partner. He craved the attention of someone who adored him without the threat of sexual pressure, much as a mother would." Furthermore, "Elvis befriended some of the young girls who used to cluster adoringly in his driveway, or outside the fence ... Some of the girls were as young as fourteen. Fortas said they were frequent houseguests who attended his concerts as part of 'Elvis's personal traveling show.' Out in the backyard, they romped with Elvis in the Doughboy pool and challenged him to watermelon-seed spitting contests. They also slipped into his bedroom ... for rambunctious pillow fights. Sometimes they would all sit cross-legged with him on the bed, flipping through his fan magazines or admiring his stuffed-animal collection. Often they would all lie down together and cuddle. But what went on was horseplay, not foreplay."
More importantly, Elvis indeed had relationships with very young women. Priscilla was only 14 years old when the singer began dating her. He was 24, and at that time, he even had a younger girl living in his house, says Elvis’s first guitarist and manager, Scotty Moore. Therefore, authors such as Goldman have gone so far as to call Presley a "pedophile". According to this author, "Elvis plays the strutting, overbearing macho in public, but in private he loves nothing better than to roughhouse with teenage girls with whom he exchanges beauty secrets. His basic erotic image is a crotch covered with white panties and showing a bit of pubic hair -- an image no different essentially from male to female." Alanna Nash also confirms that the singer had a predilection for young adolescent girls. Her book, 'Baby, Let's Play House': Elvis Presley and the Women Who Loved Him (2010), reveals a need in Presley to play Pygmalion and father to very young girls, whom he delighted in making over. A late-blooming "Mama's boy," she argues, young Elvis was a flop with girls and super-religious. Because of a fear of sexually transmitted diseases he wouldn't actually go "inside" women, never undressed, and was more into watching elaborate tableaux, often involving feet.
"What Elvis projected through his epoch-making act," Goldman adds, "was not just the enormous sexual excitement of puberty but its androgynous quality. Much of Elvis' power over young girls came not just from the act that he embodied their erotic fantasies but that he likewise projected frankly feminine traits with which they could identify. ... When you dig down to the sexual roots of an Elvis Presley, you sense a profound sexual ambivalence." Onefortyone ( talk) 20:46, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
←First, Happy birthday, Elvis (yesterday). Whether these stories are true or not, I think everyone—particularly those who have bad thoughts about Elvis—should read this article, especially the next to last paragraph, which quotes him. Thank you. -- Musdan77 ( talk) 03:51, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I propose adding this sentence. Do you support or oppose? Pass a Method talk 15:47, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
According to Albert Goldman, "Elvis never had normal sexual relations with these girls. The reason? Elvis was a voyeur. What he sought as his erotic goal was a group of girls who would agree to strip down to their panties and wrestle with each other while Elvis stared out his eyes with a rocklike hard-on pressing up against his underwear. He accounted for this obsession by recalling an incident from his childhood: a moment when he had seen two little girls tumbling together on the ground with their dresses rising to show their crotches. In fact, with the fine-focus characteristic of his kind, what Elvis described as his ultimate fulfillment was not the sight of the girls or even the crotch but the vision of black pubic hairs protruding around the edges of white panties. Out of all the sexual excitements in the world, this one teasing image represented the ultimate in arousal to Elvis." (Goldman, Elvis, p.338)
Interestingly, there are also several photos showing Elvis’s predilection for very young girls, for example
These girls were much younger than 18 when Elvis dated them. This certainly supports Goldman’s opinion that the girls Elvis liked were "as young as possible, certainly no older than eighteen" – or you might say: much younger than eighteen, or fourteen such as Priscilla, or even younger than fourteen as the girl Scotty Moore mentioned in his book. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:42, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Did you read what I have written above, DocKino and AndyTheGrump? In her book, The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley (2003), Elvis biographer Alanna Nash cites Memphis Mafia member Lamar Fike concerning Priscilla: "I said, 'God Almighty, Elvis, she's cute as she can be, but she's fourteen years old. We'll end up in prison for life.' I watched that from the very beginning with abject fear." Nash adds that, "though the Colonel took an unusual liking to Priscilla, he was furious at such a Lolita-like setup. Elvis was now twenty-eight years old, with twelve years' difference in their ages. Not so long before, in a redneck hormone storm, the piano-pounding Jerry Lee Lewis had ruined his career by marrying his underage cousin. This situation wasn't nearly as dangerous, but if discovered, it would still be a scandal, and Presley's movie contracts had morals clauses in them - a fact, along with paternity suits, that was never far from Parker's mind." (p.205-206) These quotes from a reliable source certainly support Silverseren's view. Onefortyone ( talk) 21:23, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Some further sources:
All reliable sources prove you wrong, DocKino. Onefortyone ( talk) 13:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
According to my sources, Priscilla secretly lived at Graceland from December 1960:
There can be no doubt that Parker had to hide that Elvis lived with a fifteen-year-old girl at Graceland, ElvisFan1981. Onefortyone ( talk) 14:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. But where are the direct quotes from these books? Your first source is Brown and Broeske. These authors say on p.321:
So this source supports the view that Priscilla was seen as Elvis's "live-in Lolita". According to another source, namely Susan M. Moyer and Jerry Osborne, Elvis: The King Remembered (2002), p.85, Priscilla "had lived at Graceland six years before marrying Elvis in 1967". Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius, Elvis: His Life from A to Z (1992) write, p.16:
And here is Karal Ann Marling, Graceland: Going Home with Elvis (Harvard University Press, 1996), p.77:
So he could avoid a scandal, one may add. Onefortyone ( talk) 03:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Why? The sources are not strong enough to warrant its inclusion, and they are contradicted by several stronger sources. I don't at all agree that any mention of her being 15 or 16 when she moved there should be added to the article, as I have absolute faith in the fact (and might I point out her own words) that she was 17 when she moved there. She was 2 months away from turning 18 and graduation High School, she was certainly no Lolita figure (Lolita was 12, for goodness sake). As I said above, the press already knew that Priscilla moved to live there a month after she did so, and they didn't care. Parker may have thought it negative publicity, but the cat was out of the bag and it still didn't raise any eyebrows within the media. What an 18 year old woman does with her time is her own business. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 03:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Why not just write what the reliable sources say:
This is a clear statement. Onefortyone ( talk) 01:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I suggest that the proposed contentious claim involving a living person neither has consensus, nor does it meet WP:BLP. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 03:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
It is a fact that several sources contradict each other. Guralnick cannot be right, as remarks by the Memphis Mafia members who were with Elvis at the time say otherwise. For instance, according to Alan Fortas, Elvis
See Alan Fortas, Elvis: from Memphis to Hollywood (1992), p.137. Robert Matthew-Walker also writes,
See Robert Matthew-Walker, Heartbreak Hotel: The Life and Music of Elvis Presley (1995), p.57. In her more recent Elvis biography, Kathleen Tracy says:
See Kathleen Tracy, Elvis Presley: A Biography (2006), p.115-116. It seems that Guralnick is just following the official version of the story invented by the Colonel and the Beaulieus for the press that only in 1962 Elvis phoned Priscilla's stepfather, Captain Paul Beaulieu, for his permission assuring the Beaulieus that the young girl would live at Vernon's house, attend a good school and always be chaperoned, and implied that he would marry her when she came of age. However, the Memphis Mafia members know better. It is no wonder, then, that Vanity Fair magazine would eventually call Priscilla "the original rock 'n' roll Lolita". These facts must be mentioned in the article. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
As for the behavior of DocKino, the participants in this discussion should also consult this page. Onefortyone ( talk)
I see Pass a Method has rejoined us. Would you care to move the discussion forward by making a new, policy-mindful, carefully worded proposal, or not? DocKino ( talk) 20:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Except that this is a terrible, ill-considered proposal that will be reverted on sight for violating our Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy: "Material about living persons added to any Wikipedia page must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoiding original research."
In sum, this "proposal" is potentially libelous, clearly biased, and poorly sourced contentious material that violates our policy on biographies of living persons. Not only will any attempt to bring it into the article be reverted on sight, but per our policy, such reversions are not subject to the 3-revert rule and any efforts to include the proposed statement in anything like its present form will be brought swiftly to the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. DocKino ( talk) 05:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been running an Elvis Fan Club for about 25 years now and in that time I have accepted the good and not so good traites with this entertainers career etc, because I respect him. But when one has to be negative,as I agree about most of his movies and drug abuse so forth,we need to show empathy,of which you and serveral other editors have skillfully done. This is why I believe in part it is now a FA Article. Sadly some people are incapable of feeling any sort of empathy,but show a great skill in being critical.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 01:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
To try to nip a rather silly edit war in the bud, I've asked for outside help:
AndyTheGrump ( talk) 00:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Was there not a story about him wanting to inform on his fellow entertainers to the FBI. Even if the story is untrue, deserves a mention? Jokem ( talk) 15:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I have no doubt that he did die on August 16th 1977 - for one thing he wouldn't have wanted his public to know about the high level of drug use even though they were legal. But there was a period for 5 years or so when the idea that he'd "faked" his death to escape the pressures of fame and was still alive and would somehow "come back" probably as a "spiritual leader". There were even claims he'd faked his death due to the fight against organised crime! Whilst these claims now seem to have died their own death, they were quite significant at the time. Should some mention be made of them? At the very least it indicates that there were quite a lot of people who wouldn't just let him die, and desperately wanted to believe he was still around, or the pressure of fame giving some level of credibility to the idea that he might have been tempted to fake his death to escape it. I realise many people would find the whole thing offensive, but the claims were certainly out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.177.218.51 ( talk) 03:55, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey, yeah, it's just like old times here, only with some new names. Meanwhile, I'd like to suggest that BB King's Elvis on Beale Street be moved. "Clearly, it was Dewey who introduced Presley to Beale Street's juke joints and night spots, and he did so only after making hi instantly famous on Jluy 10, 1954... Dewey and Elvis: the life and times of a rock 'n' roll deejay. By Louis Cantor page 148. currently available (along with evidence to support this) through Google Books.) Oh, and Bill Haley was doing rockabilly in 1951, (Listen to Rocket 88 for example. [5] three years before Elvis was one of the "originators". Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC) Yeah Steve,this sort of information you've put forward,I myself find so very interesting,rather than all that other irrelevant dribble. I also read someone that they say that the song "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and the piano playing was Ike Turner,back in the 40's was considered by many to be the first R&B song.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 00:33, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
By March 1954 Bill Haley and Saddlemen/ Comets had 14 releases that Terry Gordon of the Rockin’ Country Style web site rate as “pertinent” in a discussion of what is most commonly known as “Rockabilly”. [6] Note that Sun hadn't recorded anything that would be released by Elvis. The problem is that many if not most authors either don't know about, or chose to ignore everything that came before Elvis. It would be more correct to state that "to the public at large", or "on the national stage", Elvis was appeaered to be an originator of the style. Steve Pastor ( talk) 02:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
"But would you agree with me that rock 'n' roll started with Sam Phillips' Sun label? He was recording-" "No, not really, no," Gene interrupted. "Can't say that Sorry. I know Sam real well and Sam picked up on something that was already happening." Gene Vincent being interviewed in "Race with the Devil" pgae 219. Steve Pastor ( talk)
Well, I only mentioned this in passing, but when another editor picked up on it, I decided to begin sharing what I've learned over the past year or two (or three?), since I decided my time on this article was no longer justified and decided to pursue other interests that turned out to lead back here. Anyhow, it's my opinion that a more nuanced statement would better represent the facts, rather than simply going with what most authors have written. If no other editors agree, and I have completed the presentation of those facts, or it turns out that no one is interested, I will rest my case.
Although we did not agree in certain points in the past, Steve, in this case I would like to support your view. Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins write:
and therefore Escott and Hawkins's book "uses a study of Sun — its distinctive sound, its artists, and its market — as a starting point for a wider study of rockabilly music." See Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins, Sun Records: The Brief History of the Legendary Recording Label (1980), p.i. The authors add on p.64:
Did Elvis's band members use fiddles? Earlier rockabilly artists obviously did. This means that Elvis was not the originator of rockabilly. Here is another source that discusses the "Rockabilly ideal", i.e. "rebellion against societal controls, excess, hedonism, and a sense of a community among outsiders":
See The Southern Quarterly, vol. 22, 1983, p.79. Calling Elvis one of the originators of rockabilly (as in the Wikipedia article) seems wrong to me, in view of the sources cited above. Other musicians were the originators. Onefortyone ( talk) 23:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Here is a reliable source explicitly stating that Elvis was not the originator of Rockabilly. It cites Carl Perkins who
See Wayne Jancik, The Billboard Book of One-Hit Wonders (1998), p.16. This means that neither Elvis nor Perkins were the originators of Rockabilly. Onefortyone ( talk) 01:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Let's note that when Haley covered Rocket 88 in 1951 - that's 3 years before Elvis - Sam Phillips did the production in Jackie Brenston's version. Those are a fact, unlike the opinions written by many writers whom DocKeno continues to cite. Perhaps Phillips never heard what Haley did with the song, an arrangment that had the esential elements of "rockabliiy", again, as evaluated by someone who spent thousands of hours creating a database on the subject.
I did some further research. In his Complete Idiot's Guide to Elvis (1997), p.85, Frank Coffey writes that " 'Crazy Man Crazy' was the first rockabilly record to make the Billboard pop chart in 1953." According to Michael Campbell’s Popular Music in America (3rd edition, 2009), p.161, Carl Perkins was of the opinion that "rockabilly music was a country man’s song with a black man’s rhythm" continuing a long line of country takes on black music. The author adds that "the sound of rockabilly was not confined to Memphis or even the South. The idea of countrifying rhythm and blues had spread throughout North America." This author further writes that "Bill Haley recorded the first big rockabilly hit." According to Craig Morrison’s Go Cat Go! Rockabilly Music and its Makers (1996), p.35, Bill Haley’s Rock the Joint of 1952 is "bona fide rockabilly, perhaps even the birth of the style." In his Supremely American: Popular Song in the 20th Century (2005), p.134, Nicholas E. Tawa writes that the first white offerings of rock 'n' roll were given the designation "rockabilly" and that "Rock 'n' roll emerged more clearly as a white genre with the 1953 record 'Crazy Man Crazy,' sung by Bill Haley." According to Brock Helander’s The Rockin' '50s: The People who made the Music (1998), p.13, "Rockabilly developed in the early to mid '50s. It usually featured frantic, uninhibited lead vocals, a wild stinging lead guitar, and thumping stand-up bass. Rockabilly found its first widespread expression thanks to Sun Records... Bill Haley and the Comets were perhaps the earliest purveyors of rockabilly... They scored major pop hits from 1953 to 1956 with songs such as 'Crazy, Man, Crazy,' 'Dim, Dim the Lights,' the classic 'Rock Around the Clock' (...), 'Burn That Candle,' and 'See You Later, Alligator.' " All of these sources clearly support Steve Pastor's view that there were rockabilly songs before Elvis appeared on the scene. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Rockabilly crystallized into a recognizable style in 1954 with Elvis Presley's first release, on the Sun label of Memphis. Presley announced the arrival of rockabilly through his dynamic stage act, and the style spread into Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Louisiana, and neighboring states. Musicians inspired by Presley joined the movement, bringing their own backgrounds. (p. x)
Rockabilly ripened in Memphis, where Sam Phillips' Sun Records, a small regional outfit nurtured it.... Among the most seminal musicians were Elvis Presley, Carl Perkins, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Roy Orbison.... Over the next two years [beginning in 1956], a string of number-one recorded hits [by Presley] dominated the charts and went a long way toward defining the rockabilly style.... (pp. 134–35)
Bill Haley (The Saddlemen) Rock the Joint Essex 303— "Jumpy opus is an odd mixture of c.&w. and r.&b." from Billboard Apr 26, 1952. More than two years B.E. Steve Pastor ( talk) 20:52, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Now that you are familiarizing yourself with the RCS site, you might want to go to the Advance Search page and do a search for "perintent" songs in the year 1952, then 1953. You will see numerous songs by numerous artists. You will also see that there are many more in 1953 than in 1952. Thank you for your continuing comments as I continue to present the information I have come across since leaving this article years(?) ago. Upon completion of that presentation, and perhaps a more concise statement of the points presented, we will see if other editors agree with my suggestion that the current statement should be modified. Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:38, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Just another opinion on Elvis for today. “Elvis Presley is an after-the-fact personality in regard to the origin of rock ‘n’ roll, but his sudden and enormous popularity played a key role…” Rock! It’s Still Rhythm and Blues. Lawrence N. Redd. The Black Perspective in Music, Vol 13 No 1 Spring 1985 p 39. More to come over the next few days. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
There's a book I've been looking into purchasing today, mainly because it includes information about Elvis, but it's primarily about the history of Rockabilly. It's from last year, so I'm assuming fairly up to date with its research, and is written by Greil Marcus with input from Michael Dregni, Peter Guralnick, Luc Sante, Robert Gordon, Sonny Burgess. Each of these names are very well known within the Elvis community, and all of them are considered very knowledgeable when it comes to his life and career. Several of them, if not all, are considered highly credible music historians in their own right outside of Elvis. Here's some of what the book had to say regarding Elvis and Rockabilly.
I don't know all that much about the history of rockabilly, but when I read parts of the book I thought it might be relevant to this conversation. The book is called Rockabilly: The Twang Heard 'round the World - The Complete Illustrated History, and it's available to buy now. Here is a link to the google pages that I have quoted above. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 14:26, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Johnny and Dorsey Burnette, assisted by their friend guitarist Paul Burlison, jumped ahead of history in 1953 by rocking up the traditional country songs of the day and performing forbidden up-tempo, segregated black songs in the joints around Memphis, Tennessee. In fact, they were the first musical pioneers who helped to found Rockabilly music-a year before Elvis Presley's Big Bang "accident" of 1954. from "The Rockabilly Legends" by Jerry Naylor and Steve Haliday. 2007. More to come from this source. Steve Pastor ( talk) 21:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Right. We'll get to where you can hear Elvis says that what he Scotty and Bill just recorded "sounds like Carl Perkins", and how he knew what Perkins was already doing (and the Dorsey's et al). To me that means he knew he hadn't exactly created something new. So, don't anyone get me wrong. Elvis was HUGH in his impact, and he did bring something new - mostly his voice - to the mix. I like "trendsetter". But even a footnote might capture it. Don't know yet. But thankfully, I've got just a few more items to post over the next few days. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
When Elvis walked into the Sam Phillips Recording Service, he was asked by Phillips's assistant Keisker, "What kind of singer are you?" Elvis said, "I sing all kinds." ... "Hillbilly?" "Yeah, I sing hillbilly." He just summarized what was already there - various blends of blues, R&B, country etc. Only his voice was unique. There can be no doubt that the earliest rockabilly songs were sung by others. As Michael Campbell, in his Popular Music in America, says: "Bill Haley recorded the first big rockabilly hit." (3rd edition, 2009), p.161.) Onefortyone ( talk) 01:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Just for a new start, why has this well-sourced and useful edit been removed from the Elvis article? Onefortyone ( talk) 21:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Steve Pastor, who is one of the rockabilly experts here, seems to agree with my opinion. Interestingly, there seems to be no consensus about the definition of "rockabilly". Here is an interesting passage from Craig Morrison's Go Cat Go! Rockabilly Music and its Makers (1996), p.9-10:
In view of this statement by a rockabilly expert, does it make sense to call Elvis one of the originators of rockabilly? I don't think so. Why not just say, "Presley was one of the greatest performers and popularizers of rockabilly" ? Onefortyone ( talk) 23:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts on the latest source provided by 141;
In 141's own words, this source is from a "rockabilly expert", and therefore it can be considered fair to use in the argument that Presley was the originator, not just "one of the originators", of rockabilly. I've said before that the word "originator" might be what some editors here have a problem with, yet even some sources provided by those editors has claimed Presley as the "originator" of rockabilly. If I was writing this article from scratch, taking into account the sources I've read regarding rockabilly, at this point I would have no problem with using the term "one of the originators" again. At this point, after much discussion and reading of many sources, I don't think there's enough reason to change the current article's wording regarding this matter. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 06:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Tom and ElvisFan have made arguments for retaining the existing language that are quite different and both very convincing. I'm convinced by them, and by all the sources I've looked at it. Let's leave it as it is. It is clear that there will be no consensus in favor of a change for the foreseeable future, if ever, so further exhausting our time and energy on this is clearly pointless. We can move on. DocKino ( talk) 05:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Rocky, while Dorsey named his newborn son Billy - both boys named after professional'boxers. The proud fathers dedicated a week of their performances, and then a whole month, to their new babies. "This is a Rocky 'n' Billy song," they'd say,and they'd romp into "Tear It Up" or something else. Eventually they wrote a song called "Rocky 'n'Boogie." Inevitably, someone in the crowd would forget the name of the song and call out, "Play that Rockabilly song." To all of us who were there at the beginning, that's where Rockabilly really got its name. The Burnettes didn't record their song until after Elvis smashed his way into the history books, but they birthed the name for this new and vibrant world-changing music. Rockabill Legends page 264 ~ (not many page #s!). According to wikipedia Billy was born May 8, 1953. "Two consecutive months" would be April/May or May/June. This isn't an exact date, but it looks like locals in Memphis knew the word "Rockabilly" a full year before July 1954. Steve Pastor ( talk) 00:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
"Terry Gordan of RCS isn' the only one who thinks Haley did rocabilly before Elvis. Writing of Haley, "during the early 1950s, through a seuccession of experiments, to produce what he call cowboy-jive, whcih became hillbilly boogie and later rockabilly." p 193 "Let the Good Times Roll -the Story of Louis Jordan and his music. John Chilton. Steve Pastor ( talk) 21:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
After an early rendition of "Blue Moon of Kentucky", Sun Records owner Sam Phillips exclaimed, "BOY, that's fine, that's fine. That's a POP song now!." [1] Presley responded, "That sounds like Carl Perkins!" [2] I posted this information on this talk page previously, before leaving the article. I asked that people check the reference. I'm not aware of anyone responding. But, Perkins was in Jackson, not Memphis. And although Jackson is in Tennessee, how did Elvis know what Perkins sounded like since at that time when Carl had never had any records released? Looks like Jackson would be too far for even his radio performances to reach Memphis. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Remember "Crazy, Man Crazy" and how it was the first rockabilly song to be in the top 20 a year before Elvis first recorded with Bill and Scotty? Bill Haley stated the following regarding Elvis speaking to him back stage in Oklahoma City in 1954/1955. "He was only a nineteen year old kid then and had a lot of spunk. His eargerness to learn reminded me of myself back when I was his age. He told me his favorite song was "Crazy, Man Crazy", and after he heard it he knew he wanted to be a singer too." from "Sound and Glory" page 103. So, We don't have to speculate about if Elvis heard the song. Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh DocKino, historical evidence suggests that certain claims that Elvis originated rockabilly at Sun seem to be wrong. According to this Billboard article, Charlie Feathers may have invented rockabilly in 1949. According to Glen Jeansonne, David Luhrssen and Dan Sokolovic’s well-researched new study, Elvis Presley, Reluctant Rebel: His Life and Our Times (2011), Charlie Feathers
Steve Pastor has already shown that Elvis was well aware of the fact that he didn't invent the new sound. Therefore, Elvis should not be called an originator of rockabilly in the Wikipedia article. Onefortyone ( talk) 22:37, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Awww, 141, you just said an untruth (surprise!) when you said that "Steve Pastor has already shown that Elvis was well aware of the fact that he didn't invent the new sound". Neither Steve nor anyone else in this thread has established anything about what "Elvis was well aware of."
But, HEY!! THANKS 141, for giving us yet another source that supports the already very, very, very well supported description of Presley as one of the originators of rockabilly: "Perhaps Elvis, in addition to his many other musical interests, was already a junior player in the developing rockabilly sound with other Memphis musicians well before that fateful July night in the Sun Studio." Well done, 141, well DONE. DocKino ( talk) 11:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
So, Elvis said, during his earliest sessions with Scotty and Bill, "That sounds like Carl Perkins". But, how did he know what Carl sounded like? It didn't quite fit. Somehow I found out about an article in "The Atlantic" about Carl Perkins from December 1970, and got a reprint. Carl is quoted. "Elvis, he came from the same environment as me, though not as poor, and he told me later that he had come up to Jackson and seen us one night at El Rancho. His manager then, Bob Neal, a big DJ at WMPS in Memphis, had seen us too." It must have been before that first recording session (otherwise how would he have known what Carl sounded like?). Elvis, Carl, and eventually Phillips knew that their music was similar. But Carl had already been doing it for years, just as Bill Haley had. And probably a bunch of other folks, but they never got recorded or got into the books.
Monday,July 5 1954 The three of them went to the Sun Studio because Sam Phillips wanted to hear them on tape. Recently developed,magnetic recording tape made it possible for them to do one take of a song,listen to it,then make adjustment for the next take. Nothing special happened at that session until Presley began fooling around and playing an obsure 1946 blues song,'That's All Right',during a break. Elvis started singing Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup's blues song,'That's All Right',with a fast rhythm and in a more casual style than most blues songs,and Moore and Black jumped in. Phillips voice boomed out from the control booth,'What are you doing?" None of them really knew. How could they? How could they know that they had stumbled onto a new sound for a new generation? Sam recognized it right away. He was amazed that the boy even knew Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup - nothing in any of the songs he had tried so far gave any indication that he was drawt to this kind of music at all. But this was the sort of music that Sam had long ago who heartedly embraced...And the way the boy performed it,it came across with a freshness and exuberance,it came across with the kind of clear eyed,unabashed originality that Sam sought in all the music that he recorded,it was 'different',it was itself. Phillips was excited about the trio's sound and recognized its potential. He asked them to refine their unique interpretation of 'That's All Right',and then he re recorded it. At the time he cut his first record for Sam,there was no word that could adequately describe his style of music. When the press attempted to explain his sound,they usually made a mess of it,often confusing their readers with inappropriate or comical comparisions to other types of music. Elvis was referred to at various times as a 'hillbilly singer','a young rural rhythm talent',a 'white man...singing Negro rhythms with a boppish approach to hillbilly music'. Not long after Elvis' success,other rockabilly and country-western singers showed up on the doorstep of Sun Studios,hoping that Phillips could work the same magic with them as he had with Elvis,Phillips eventually recorded Johnny Cash,Jerry Lee Lewis,Carl Perkins,Roy Orbison,Charlie Feathers,Billy Lee Riley,Dickie Lee and other artists. July 1954 not long after the 17th Sam Phillips asks WMPS Memphis disc jockey Bob Neal to book Elvis on his Country Music Jamboree at the Overton Shell that featured Slin Whitman and Billy Walker as the headliners. It would be their first professional public performance as a band. Source: Elvis Presley News:Elvis Aaron Presley 1953-1955 The Hillibilly Cat/EPE What I don't quite undertand Steve in the above about Bob Neal,is that Elvis had already done his first recording,before he had even meet Bob Neal,let alone become his Manager.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 01:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Steve,I thank you for your explanation. But to say people like Carl and others already sounded like Elvis did before Elvis was recorded and his record was played on the radio,I'd think I'd have to agree to disagree with you on that one. But I will acknowlege a couple of things with you though. I remember reading in Scotty Moore's book he mentions admiring the guitarist out of Bill Haley's band the Coments,who happened to be a Jazz player I believe, and also stating that he thought the Rolling Stones were the best Rock'n'Roll band in the 60's. But in saying all that, many bands and musicians including Elvis and the Blue Moon Boys and Bill Haley and The Comets,Carl Perkins and many others put their cards on the table. As Elvis had said in an interview "I happened to come along when there was no trend,I was very lucky.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 07:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Everything you've added recently is very interesting, 141, but what has any of it got to do with rockabilly? ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 01:49, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, if it is in fact rockabilly he's talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that the music did not have the name "rockabilly" before Elvis came along. There are still far more sources that state he is ONE OF the originators, and many that state he IS THE originator, of rockabilly, and therefore I see no strong enough reason to change it. The article doesn't claim he invented it, it claims he was one of the originators, backed up by many sources. We'll have to agree to disagree until further evidence can be discovered. And for the record, the article doesn't claim that Elvis created the sound. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 03:12, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Earlier this was quoted from “Rockabilly: The Twang Heard 'Round the World: The Illustrated History” "Elvis invented rockabilly. He also invented Rockabilly Style.” This statement was written by Sigrid Arnott. Other publications by Arnott are: “Medieval fasting women : dynamics of gender and power”, and “KnitKnacks: Much Ado About Knitting.” We can perhaps discount this one as the opinion of a respected music historian, I’d say. BTW, if you haven't been looking at the talk pages ElvisFan identified the seeming mention of Carl Perkins as coming from another, later recording session. But I see that 141 pointed out the Scotty Moore acknowledged that Perkins and others were doing rockabilly style before he, Bill Black, and Elvis recorded. Steve Pastor ( talk) 19:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
"There's a book I've been looking into purchasing today, mainly because it includes information about Elvis, but it's primarily about the history of Rockabilly. It's from last year, so I'm assuming fairly up to date with its research, and is written by Greil Marcus with input from Michael Dregni, Peter Guralnick, Luc Sante, Robert Gordon, Sonny Burgess. Each of these names are very well known within the Elvis community, and all of them are considered very knowledgeable when it comes to his life and career. Several of them, if not all, are considered highly credible music historians in their own right outside of Elvis. Here's some of what the book had to say regarding Elvis and Rockabilly." Greil Marcus appears to have no credentials as musician. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
There is clearly ample historical evidence and critical opinion (some of which is cited above) in support of rockabilly's existence prior to 1954 to require that any statement that Elvis Presley was an "originator" of rockabilly be balanced with a counter statement. Either that, or the claim should be excised altogether and replaced with something less controversial.
It must be remembered that while everyone has an equal right to an opinion, that does not mean that all opinions are equal. To wit: Katherine Charlton's claim that Presley was "rockabilly's originator" is an opinion unsupported (if not flatly contradicted) by fact. Charlton is a retired community college music history professor with an academic background in classical music. However much postgraduate study she's done since she earned her MA in music history from CSU Fullerton (which did not and does not have a rock/pop music program), it is ludicrous to claim that she is a more reliable authority on rockabilly than Carl Perkins or Scotty Moore. If Perkins and Moore state that they, Presley, and Sam Phillips did not invent rockabilly, then that carries substantially more weight than anything Charlton writes to the contrary—even if McGraw-Hill publishes it in a textbook. If Charlton can substantiate her claim, that's one thing. However, to simply accept the word of an academic over those of the subjects of her studies is to have the tail wag the dog, and it makes a mockery of Wikipedia's intent when it comes to the all-important doctrine of verifiability. (Likewise, Sigrid Arnott's casual assertion that "Elvis invented rockabilly" should not be taken out of context: it was merely a setup for her slightly less dubious assertion that "he also invented Rockabilly style"—meaning style of dress rather than music, to which her credentials as a "textile artist, historian, and author" apply.)
Presley, Perkins, et al. developed, mastered, and greatly popularized a music that they did not originate. It is hardly a slight against any of them to say so. Presley may be the single most important entertainer in the history of American (and perhaps even global) popular music in terms of his impact on other musicians and the general public alike. His legacy is not improved by claiming for him things that he did not do. Pstoller ( talk) 22:37, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Some further sources:
Elvis himself said:
I think it's time now to change the passage in the article which falsely claims that Elvis was one of the originators of rockabilly. Onefortyone ( talk) 23:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the proposal to replace "one of the originators" with "the most important popularizer." Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey I got a question, if Elvis himself said that he never started rockabilly then why do some folks insist he be giving credit to something even he knew he never created? I like this new edit as a "important popularizer" because that's what he really was and popularizing a genre that already exist (rock and roll & rockabilly) is still respecting his legacy in music history. BrothaTimothy ( talk · contribs) 04:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
In order to avoid disagreements similar to the ones above, i would like to see Dockino (and others) to make a proposal. I have collected some references so we can collaborate for consensus. Whats the best to word (a) Elvis relationships with youngeer girls and/or (b) attempts to cover this up, using the following sources? (feel free to add more sources);
Pass a Method talk 10:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi DocKino
On 12 January 2012 ( 05:19) you wrote : "Because nothing you've just quoted in any way supports the claim that "Colonel Tom Parker made sure that Priscilla's age did not get out to the media during that time period."
Apparently you are right. Look at this article on Feb 28, 1960
-- Roujan ( talk) 10:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi DocKino
Look this page. The second link titled : <Elvis Presley Due To Fly Back>. Just below there are other links which proves that Colonel Tom Parker has never hidden the age of Priscilla. On the link <Meriden Journal March 1, 1960> we can also read :<Presley told a news conference he had been dating Priscilla for three or four months> http://www.google.com/search?q=elvis+presley+sold+million&hl=en&gl=fr&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=g9RZT5fGFMig8QO0rbnXDg&ved=0CBQQpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=601#hl=en&gs_nf=1&ds=n&pq=elvis+presley+sold+million&cp=24&gs_id=22&xhr=t&q=elvis+presley++priscilla&pf=p&gl=fr&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&oq=elvis+presley++priscilla&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=91c5be38b58163d7&biw=1024&bih=601
-- Roujan ( talk) 10:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Can you prove, without any doubt, that she lived at Graceland before the age of consent? She was literally weeks away from her 18th birthday when she moved to Memphis, and Nash uses the term "several weeks" to describe how long she lived with Vernon and Dee before moving in with Elvis. Does any of that prove she lived at Graceland before her 18th birthday? ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 02:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
After wading my way through this lengthy and repetitive debate, I have to ask: Is this material—true or not, verifiable or not—really pertinent to a Wikipedia bio of Elvis Presley? There are many things that Presley may or may not have done in his private life, but unless it can be demonstrated that these things had a significant effect on his public career, I don't see how they have any pressing relevance. Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Presley began having sexual relations with Pricilla Beaulieu in Germany when she was 14, and then similarly assume that she moved in with Presley when she was 16, the fact remains that there was no scandal; Presley's career was not derailed; and he and those around him seem to have made no significant creative or business decisions in response to this alleged tinderbox (beyond allegedly taking some care as to not expose it). It has virtually nothing to do with why Presley is a public figure, nor how he is generally perceived. (Contrast this with Presley's drug use, which is extremely relevant to his image and career.) The only real argument I see in favor of including this information is the allegation that Colonel Parker used "secret sex films" (not featuring Beaulieu) to blackmail Presley into signing a bad contract. However, only Earl Greenwood has put this story forward—repeated, but never substantiated, by Penthouse, Kathleen Tracy, and Liz Smith. So, the question isn't, "Is it true?" or, "Can you prove it?" but, "So what?" Besides, there's an entire separate article on Presley's personal relationships here. I question whether that article needs to exist, but as it does, putting the same material in the main article would be redundant. So, how about giving this poor, dead horse a respite? Pstoller ( talk) 04:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
"and there can be no doubt that Elvis secretly kept Priscilla in his bedroom before she was of the age of consent." You've lost this proposal on more than one occasion. There is an extreme doubt, seeing that there's absolutely no proof to what you're saying. Keep your blatant slander to yourself. Also, any such claims of Presley having an "affair" with Nick Adams is entirely an allegation, there's no proof to back any of it up, hence why it won't be added to this article. Priscilla herself has stated that your proposed statements are indeed false, along with many other trustworthy sources, no one here that has a good head on their shoulders is going to agree with you on either note, and frankly, I'm sick and tired of reading your ridiculous slander. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.0.168.187 ( talk) 04:56, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
One would hope that we would grow up sooner or later and move on!-- Jaye9 ( talk) 09:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
For me when researching anything on Elvis Pstoller,it's not about what is being said is all that important,it's more to do with who's saying that is.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 00:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
...were prominent enough figures in his life to be mentioned in the lead.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
05:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
::Why shouldn't it be added to the lead is a better question. Several pages for popular entertainers have some aspect of their personal life mentioned in the lead.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
23:23, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
:::How long before someone replies or throws their opinion in?
Tradepath8 (
talk)
21:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::What argument do you want? It just should be. That's like asking a person why do they wear clothes, or why do they eat. Because they should. Really, why do you want it to not be mentioned?
Tradepath8 (
talk)
03:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
The "years active" should read as follows:
1953-1977
Yet someone keeps persisting on having it look like this:
1953-77
The second version looks like an unprofessional, abbreviated mess. I haven't seen the "years active" be abbreviated like this on any other wikipedia page.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
00:58, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
<In the 1970s Elvis was offered $5m to stage a concert in front of the Pyramids in Egypt. When the Colonel declined the offer, Saudi billionaires raised the offer to $10m> http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_real_failure.html ( right column)
Is it true?...If yes, i think it's pertinent -- Roujan ( talk) 15:19, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
There are already references to Parker/Presley being offered work abroad (Palladium, London; Australia). There was a story about Presley being offered a gig at Wembley Stadium too. I can't see what benefit there is in just adding to this list of claims/rumours. The main point is Parker was given inducements to send Elvis abroad and Parker said 'No'. Rikstar 409 13:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
This is more than a rumor. It should be in the article. Why not? Because there aren't reliable sources for this. I see. Is that why this article has three "references" that lead to dead links, and five books that are out of print (and when published were of very small presses). And that's just for one "bonafide" section. Hmm. Jimsteele9999 ( talk) 01:27, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
There are no reliable global TV audience estimates for anything, even the Olympics. Wikipedia:Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. The three books cited for the 1.5-billion figure may be very reliable for most Elvis-related facts, but there is no reason to believe the authors have any special expertise in the area of TV audience estimates. Therefore the blogpost debunking the 1.5-billion figure has precedence, even though blogposts are, other things being equal, less reliable than published books. jnestorius( talk) 16:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
You are right. The original source for all the claims that "Aloha from Hawaii" was broadcast to 1-1.5 billion viewers is a vague estimate given by Billboard, 16 December 1972, p.18, stating that
These viewing figures must be called an Elvis myth promoted by Colonel Parker, especially at a time when Elvis did no longer have as many number-one hits on the charts as he had in his younger years (his last Top Ten hit on the US charts was "Burning Love" in October/November 1972). Onefortyone ( talk) 18:46, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
The name "Presley" derives from the german name "Pressler" from southern Palatine in Germany
http://www.videoregister.de/elvis-presley/2009-01-08/
"Der Name Presley stammt wie die Vorfahren von Elvis Presley aus Deutschland von einem um 1700 ausgewanderten deutschen südpfälzischem Winzer, mit dem Namen Pressler. Das fanden Ahnenforscher im Jahr 1990 heraus."-- 178.254.125.33 ( talk) 18:36, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/deutschstammige-musiker-t297631/
"Hochstadt-aus den Dörfern Niederhochstadt und Oberhochstadt entstanden
Die beiden weitläufig mit Elvis verwandten Ahnenforscher fanden bei Recherchen in Archiven, Steuerlisten und Kirchenbüchern heraus, dass der «Vinedresser» Pressler 1710 in New York mit einem Londoner Auswandererschiff ankam. Pressler-Familien aus dem heutigen Hochstadt gründeten in Pennsylvania einen Ort gleichen Namens. Die Presslers sind heute über die ganzen Vereinigten Staaten verstreut.
«Der Name Pressler bezieht sich in allen bisher bekannten Abstammungsfällen auf Ober -und Niederhochstadt», sagt Gerd Pressler. Mit «höchster Wahrscheinlichkeit» seien trotz lückenhafter Dokumente Valentin Pressler und Elvis Presley in zehnter Generation miteinander verwandt. Indizien seien der Leitname Valentin, der in den Hochstadter Pressler-Familien bis ins 20. Jahrhundert vergeben wurde sowie der Beruf des Auswanderers: Weinbau ist in Hochstadt seit 770 nachweisbar.
Valentin Pressler, der im Zuge der pfälzischen Auswandererbewegung in die USA kam, lebte mit seiner Frau und seinen fünf Kindern zunächst in New York. Später zog die Familie in den Süden, aus dem auch Elvis stammt. Der Name Pressler - auch Preslar, Preßler und Bressler - passte sich im Laufe der Zeit der englischen Sprache an und wurde zu Presley, erzählt Gerd Pressler. Die Herkunft des Familiennamens sei unklar, möglicherweise beziehe er sich auf die bei Pfälzern sehr beliebte Brezel.
«Allein im 18. Jahrhundert wanderten rund 50.000 Pfälzer nach Amerika aus», schätzt der Historiker Roland Paul vom Institut für pfälzische Geschichte und Volkskunde in Kaiserslautern. Städte und Dörfer waren durch jahrzehntelange Kriege verwüstet, die Bevölkerung lebte in großer Armut. In den USA bürgerte sich schnell der Name «Palatines» (Pfälzer) für alle deutschsprachigen Auswanderer ein." -- 178.254.125.33 ( talk) 18:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/The Beatles on the issue of capitalizing the definite article when mentioning the band's name in running prose. This long-standing dispute is the subject of an open mediation case and we are requesting your help with determining the current community consensus. For the mediators. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 00:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELV1S Has it that the aforesaid song was a number 1 single, as would RCA and EPE, who manufactured and oversaw the album's release. Therefore such should be added to his #1 singles chart below the article. If someone would, that'd be great. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.228.179.68 ( talk) 12:17, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hello, this is regarding the opening paragraph. It states: He is commonly known by his first name, 'Elvis'. It used to say: He is commonly known by his first name, 'Elvis', 'The King of Rock n Roll', or simply 'The King'. Please change it back.
67.14.243.3 ( talk) 20:02, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Elvis Aron Presley is his name his birth certificate and is NOT spelt with two 'a's in Aron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.126.167 ( talk) 14:20, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
In multiple places in this his middle name is spelled "Aaron". Elvis's middle name was in fact "Aron". This is easily verifiable and needs to be changed so people who use Wikipedia for information will have the correct information, because the way it is now is wrong.
WhovianMama ( talk) 04:33, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Sheila Barnard
It seems this article is missing an important element, Elvis Presley's personal life, namely his spiritual quest. This fact of his life was left out maybe for political reason, but it is important to include it in this page or at least create a dedicated page for Elvis Presley's Spiritual Quest. It is important to include it because it explains a lot of things of Elvis Persona, psychology, mind frame, philosophy and the reason why he chose to mix styles and pronounce certain words in his songs. I understand that this is subjective, but the reality is that it is part of Life. I have tried to create a paragraph in this page, on the Spiritual Quest, but somebody deleted it because the references that I have included were somehow Judged invalid. Watch this : Youtube Elvis Presley Spirituality (2/4) -- Fady Lahoud ( talk) 04:39, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it is, but it seems too insignificant and it deserves at least a section of it's own, (in my opinion vs another ones opinions). I propose to create a section of Elvis Presley Spiritual Quest and develop the theme. I have tried, but somebody deleted it because he or she belied the references to be bogus... Well I propose that he or she search and gives tones of "Good" references, because I believe there is tones out there. And here is another reference: http://www.devorss.com/elvisenter.htm -- Fady Lahoud ( talk) 02:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
http://m.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=6849
In honor of the king's groundbreaking performances in 1973, the governor of Hawaii Neil Abercrombie declared January 14, 2013, as "Elvis, Aloha from Hawai'i via Satellite Day." The governor made the announcement at the Neal S. Blaisdell Center last night during the 40th anniversary celebration. "Aloha from Hawaii" returned to the same place for a one-night only enhanced screening celebrating the concert seen by over a billion people worldwide
71.234.119.3 ( talk) 13:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
http://m.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=6849
In honor of the king's groundbreaking performances in 1973, the governor of Hawaii Neil Abercrombie declared January 14, 2013, as "Elvis, Aloha from Hawai'i via Satellite Day." The governor made the announcement at the Neal S. Blaisdell Center last night during the 40th anniversary celebration. "Aloha from Hawaii" returned to the same place for a one-night only enhanced screening celebrating the concert seen by over a billion people worldwide
71.234.119.3 (talk) 13:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Elvis hated being called "The King" and said so repeatedly Santamoly (talk) 09:04, 7 February 2013 (UTC) Elvis hating his title is not Germaine to adding this update . I clearly posted the link that shows the governor of Hawaii proclaiming 40 years later aloha elvis day . Please include it 71.234.119.3 (talk) 03:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC) So you think that this opportunistic promotional blather takes precedence over what Elvis repeatedly said about being called "The King"? Santamoly (talk) 02:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
it is not opportunistic. the proclamation shows the amazing popularity of elvis and his music. its a fitting eneding to aloha elvis. please. the very least show the proclamation in the article.
68.199.5.208 ( talk) 19:46, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
In recognition of Elvis' charitable contributions Memphis Mayor William Ingram, along with the Governor of Tennessee Buford Ellington, officially declared October 29, 1967, "Elvis Presley Day" in the city of Memphis and in the State of Tennessee..( the king donated yearly to over 50 charities )Memphis tribune
Some of the more publicized charities Elvis gave to were;
On March 24, 1961 Elvis performed in Hawaii for a benefit concert, held at the Bloch Arena, to raise money for a memorial for the USS Arizona which had sank during the bombing of Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 historically known as “a day that will live in infamy”. Elvis raised $ 65,000.00 and a plaque was prominently placed, at the memorial site, acknowledging Elvis’ efforts in raising the money. Sadly, the plaque was removed due to the acts of a few powerful “non-Elvis fans” and the return of this plaque remains an emphasis of mine and should be to Elvis Presley Fans Worldwide. In in 1964 Elvis bought the FDR Presidential Yacht named the Potomac and donated it to the St. Judes Children s Research Hospital, who ultimately sold it for an amount of $55,000.00, spearheaded at the time by entertainer Danny Thomas (Father of Marlo Thomas aka: “That Girl” TV Star and wife of Phil Donahue the talk show host). One bit of humor involving this event was that Colonel Parker, upon inspecting the yacht the morning that Elvis would personally present the yacht to Danny Thomas with many members of the press being present, saw that the yacht was in dire need of maintenance including paint. As only the Colonel would he authorized ONLY the side of the yacht that would be photographed to be freshly painted leaving the rest of the yacht discolored with peeling paint evident. In 1968 Elvis allowed one of his Rolls Royce to be auctioned off for a charity that assisted mentally retarded children. In 1973 Elvis performed the first “live concert/broadcast via Worldwide satellite”, which was seen by a record audience of over ONE BILLION people, known as “Aloha from Hawaii”. This concert was actually a benefit concert for the Kuiokalani Lee Cancer Fund. The goal was to raise $ 25,000.00 but this amount was greatly exceeded and actually raised $ 75,000.00. In 1975 Elvis gave a concert in Jackson Mississippi that raised in excess of $ 100,000.00 for victims of a tornado. This concert was deeply personal to Elvis because when Elvis was a child a tornado tore through his hometown in Tupelo, Mississippi and killed many people.
I think elvis earned it
71.234.119.3 ( talk) 16:25, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Signs_Of_The_Zodiac
redirects to elvis page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.237.57 ( talk) 23:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I would have thought Elvis would not have been the most controversial person in the world. Apart the fact the whole article reads like the president of his official "fan club" wrote it, there seems little reason for it to be locked
I realise the reason it could be. I was just asking about why "this" article is locked. ie. What particular reason for "this" article -- CTtheKiwi ( talk) 00:06, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
According to people magazine and time magazine elvis was declared the biggest teen idol on history .please put that in the beginning
Elvis is considered the greatest teen idol of all time per people magazine and time magazine .
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1853419_1853382_1853376,00.html
Thank you 76.222.86.76 ( talk) 13:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
According to people magazine and time magazine elvis was declared the biggest teen idol on history .please put that in the beginning
Elvis is considered the greatest teen idol of all time per people magazine and time magazine .
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1853419_1853382_1853376,00.html
http://www.people.com/people/archive/issue/0,,7566920727,00.html
The time rates the biggest teen idols backwards . Elvis was ranked number one solo and the beatles number one group at ten ( the higher the number , the bigger the rank )
Thank you
76.222.86.76 ( talk) 15:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Please don't start a new section every time you post. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 18:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Please put that elvis is commonly known as King of Las Vegas " he is the only performer in hx to raise Vegas revunue 10 percent across the board http://www.vegas.com/elvis/
Thank you
71.234.118.65 ( talk) 21:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Although this article has been a "featured article", it seems to inevitably drift back into a crude and disgusting gossip sheet, often quoting trash sources and nasty-spirited rumor mongers. The article's disrespectful and trashy tone is in sharp contrast to publications by his friends and co-workers who saw him as a true friend and respected arranger and performer. Unfortunately, there seems to be an endless supply of ignorant, mean-mouthed creeps turning up here to tear the man down using low-quality scandal sheets as "sources" - and that's a pity. Santamoly ( talk) 03:16, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
I've got to agree with Pstoller and Rikstar on this one. The article should be neutral, and fair, to both positive and negative aspects of Presley's life and career. I think it's quite obvious that his friends and co-workers would, for the most part, reflect on him in a more positive manner. However, I've also read/seen/heard many examples from his closest friends who spoke quite negatively on much of Presley's life and career. Presley was human, he wasn't perfect, and there is no way that he could possibly have lived up to the God-like image that some people wanted to project upon him and his memory. I don't agree that any article should be overly negative, but I also don't agree that any article should be overly positive. Balance is important, although it's not always easy to meet everyone's expectations of what is a fair balance and what is not. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 17:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
The last sentence from the lead: "He has been inducted into multiple music halls of fame."
He has been inducted into multiple music halls of fame.
He is one of only two artists (the other being Johnny Cash) to have been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Country Music Hall of Fame, the Gospel Hall of Fame, and the Rockabilly Hall of Fame.
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This article lists "Hartbreak Hotel" as Elvis first single recorded in 1956. I believe that his first single was recorded in 1954 and was "Thats All Right" on A side and "Blue Moon of Kentucky" on the B side
70.24.5.7 ( talk) 16:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
To Whom It May Concern,
There is a correction to Elvis Presley's article page: Early Years > Childhood in Tupelo > Paragraph 2 > Line 5: "...was found guilty of altering a CHECK..." should be CHEQUE. I have not made a correction before. I hope this is how it is done. Thank you.
Sindy 41.55.153.224 ( talk) 19:08, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
This is news to me. Was Elvis known for his relationship with 14 year olds? Have any of Elvis' biographers mentioned this? This seems like a rather controversial point. We certainly should not rush to including it in the article. This section is intended to open a "slow" discussion on the point. Our task is to demonstrate that this issue has solid secondary sources. If it doesn't, then we need to find them before including such info in the article. DonaldRichardSands ( talk) 19:59, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Dear Binksternet, There have been more books written on Elvis Presley than any other entertainer,and for that reason you have to take extreme care on who you choose as a reliable source and sadly there's not that many. Mentioning Earl Greenwood as being a reliable source on Elvis Presley,is like saying Ian Halperin is a reliable source for Michael Jackson. To me these two authors are best describled as unscrupulous individuals with a vivid imagination. Please do yourself a favour and get yourself a copy of "Revelations Of The Memphis Mafia" by Alanna Nash,read it and then you will understand the topics you have brought forward in its proper contents,okay!-- Jaye9 ( talk) 11:13, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Columnist Liz Smith? Wrote as you pointed out,about Greenwood' theory about Parker had seized these supposed films and used them to Blackmail Elvis into giving Parker a huge percentage and Smith goes on to say "It makes some sense". Well that's the first time I've heard that one and she lost me right there. It reminds me of these conspiracy theorist and these wild things they come up with and they have nothing to back it up with. When you speak of Elvis and fourteen year old girls,it was pretty prevelant in certain parts of the South in those days. It has been said many times that Presley was drawn to 14,15 & 16 year old girls during the early days of his career. As these girls were virgins and made good potential wifes. Someone he could mould into the ideal women. Unlike the girls he met on the road. Quite simply he would not have married them. And it has also been said,during this period he proposed to quite a few of these young girls. I might add,back in 1948,Country singer Loretta Lyn married "Doo" Lyn in Kentucky three months shy of her 13th birthday and yes it was legal. What I am trying to explain is whether we agree with this pratice or not,it is not for us to judge,but more to understand that this is what people did in these parts of the south. It is there culture and Elvis was a part of that culture.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 04:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
There can be no doubt that Elvis's relationships with girls were kind of infantile. This comes as no surprize. Peter Guralnick writes, "Elvis grew up a loved and precious child. He was, everyone agreed, unusually close to his mother." Throughout her life, "the son would call her by pet names, they would communicate by baby talk." Gilbert B. Rodman calls Elvis "the dutiful mama's boy" and mentions, with reference to Guralnick, "the humble modesty of a Dixie-bred mama's boy: In many ways I am sure that the picture is accurate, and it undoubtedly conforms to the image that Elvis Presley had of himself."
Furthermore, Guralnick describes Elvis as a very shy person, as a "kid who had spent scarcely a night away from home in his nineteen years" and who was teased by his fellow classmates: "My older brother went to school with him," recalled singer Barbara Pittman, "and he and some of the other boys used to hide behind buildings and throw things at him - rotten fruit and stuff - because he was different, because he was quiet and he stuttered and he was a mama's boy." These early experiences had a deep influence on his clumsy advances to girls. According to Guralnick, he loved playing with the girls and teasing them, but "it didn't go too far. ... In between shows at the auditorium he would peek out from behind the curtain, then, when he spotted someone that he liked, swagger over to the concession stand, place his arm over her shoulder, and drape his other arm around someone else, acting almost like he was drunk, even though everyone knew he didn't drink." It is no wonder then that Elvis's early girlfriends June Juanico and Judy Spreckels say they had no sexual relationships with Presley.
Concerning the adult singer, Guralnick writes that when Elvis "got bored he just had to tell the guys to hunt up some girls in the lobby of the hotel. He would have them brought up to the suite, offered one observer, "and Elvis would go in the other room, he'd go in the bedroom or somewhere, and then when they came back with the girls, the girls would sit there for maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and finally one of the cousins would go in the bedroom and come out himself and another ten minutes would go by - and then in would come Elvis. And there would be like a silence, and then the cousins would say, 'Oh, Mary Jane, this is Elvis,' and the girls would be totally gone." For the most experienced girls it wasn't like with other Hollywood stars or even with other more sophisticated boys they knew. They offered to do things for him, but he wasn't really interested. What he liked to do was to lie in bed and watch television and eat and talk all night—the companionship seemed as important for him as the sex—and then in the early-morning hours they would make love [editorial note: How should the author know what was really going on in the bedroom? Many girls say they were only talking there]. "He had an innocence at that time", said one of them. "I'm sure it didn't last. But what he really wanted was to have a relationship, to have company."
In their Playboy article, "In Bed with Elvis" (November 2005), Byron Raphael and Alanna Nash have stated that "the so-called dangerous rock-and-roll idol was anything but a despotic ruler in the bedroom ... He was far more interested in heavy petting and panting and groaning" and "he would never put himself inside one of these girls ... within minutes he’d be asleep." According to Goldman, the reason for "never [having] normal sexual relations with these girls" was that "Elvis was a voyeur. What he sought as his erotic goal was a group of girls who would agree to strip down to their panties and wrestle with each other..."
According to Alan Fortas, who knew the singer well, "Elvis needed someone to baby more than he needed a sex partner. He craved the attention of someone who adored him without the threat of sexual pressure, much as a mother would." Furthermore, "Elvis befriended some of the young girls who used to cluster adoringly in his driveway, or outside the fence ... Some of the girls were as young as fourteen. Fortas said they were frequent houseguests who attended his concerts as part of 'Elvis's personal traveling show.' Out in the backyard, they romped with Elvis in the Doughboy pool and challenged him to watermelon-seed spitting contests. They also slipped into his bedroom ... for rambunctious pillow fights. Sometimes they would all sit cross-legged with him on the bed, flipping through his fan magazines or admiring his stuffed-animal collection. Often they would all lie down together and cuddle. But what went on was horseplay, not foreplay."
More importantly, Elvis indeed had relationships with very young women. Priscilla was only 14 years old when the singer began dating her. He was 24, and at that time, he even had a younger girl living in his house, says Elvis’s first guitarist and manager, Scotty Moore. Therefore, authors such as Goldman have gone so far as to call Presley a "pedophile". According to this author, "Elvis plays the strutting, overbearing macho in public, but in private he loves nothing better than to roughhouse with teenage girls with whom he exchanges beauty secrets. His basic erotic image is a crotch covered with white panties and showing a bit of pubic hair -- an image no different essentially from male to female." Alanna Nash also confirms that the singer had a predilection for young adolescent girls. Her book, 'Baby, Let's Play House': Elvis Presley and the Women Who Loved Him (2010), reveals a need in Presley to play Pygmalion and father to very young girls, whom he delighted in making over. A late-blooming "Mama's boy," she argues, young Elvis was a flop with girls and super-religious. Because of a fear of sexually transmitted diseases he wouldn't actually go "inside" women, never undressed, and was more into watching elaborate tableaux, often involving feet.
"What Elvis projected through his epoch-making act," Goldman adds, "was not just the enormous sexual excitement of puberty but its androgynous quality. Much of Elvis' power over young girls came not just from the act that he embodied their erotic fantasies but that he likewise projected frankly feminine traits with which they could identify. ... When you dig down to the sexual roots of an Elvis Presley, you sense a profound sexual ambivalence." Onefortyone ( talk) 20:46, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
←First, Happy birthday, Elvis (yesterday). Whether these stories are true or not, I think everyone—particularly those who have bad thoughts about Elvis—should read this article, especially the next to last paragraph, which quotes him. Thank you. -- Musdan77 ( talk) 03:51, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I propose adding this sentence. Do you support or oppose? Pass a Method talk 15:47, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
According to Albert Goldman, "Elvis never had normal sexual relations with these girls. The reason? Elvis was a voyeur. What he sought as his erotic goal was a group of girls who would agree to strip down to their panties and wrestle with each other while Elvis stared out his eyes with a rocklike hard-on pressing up against his underwear. He accounted for this obsession by recalling an incident from his childhood: a moment when he had seen two little girls tumbling together on the ground with their dresses rising to show their crotches. In fact, with the fine-focus characteristic of his kind, what Elvis described as his ultimate fulfillment was not the sight of the girls or even the crotch but the vision of black pubic hairs protruding around the edges of white panties. Out of all the sexual excitements in the world, this one teasing image represented the ultimate in arousal to Elvis." (Goldman, Elvis, p.338)
Interestingly, there are also several photos showing Elvis’s predilection for very young girls, for example
These girls were much younger than 18 when Elvis dated them. This certainly supports Goldman’s opinion that the girls Elvis liked were "as young as possible, certainly no older than eighteen" – or you might say: much younger than eighteen, or fourteen such as Priscilla, or even younger than fourteen as the girl Scotty Moore mentioned in his book. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:42, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
Did you read what I have written above, DocKino and AndyTheGrump? In her book, The Colonel: The Extraordinary Story of Colonel Tom Parker and Elvis Presley (2003), Elvis biographer Alanna Nash cites Memphis Mafia member Lamar Fike concerning Priscilla: "I said, 'God Almighty, Elvis, she's cute as she can be, but she's fourteen years old. We'll end up in prison for life.' I watched that from the very beginning with abject fear." Nash adds that, "though the Colonel took an unusual liking to Priscilla, he was furious at such a Lolita-like setup. Elvis was now twenty-eight years old, with twelve years' difference in their ages. Not so long before, in a redneck hormone storm, the piano-pounding Jerry Lee Lewis had ruined his career by marrying his underage cousin. This situation wasn't nearly as dangerous, but if discovered, it would still be a scandal, and Presley's movie contracts had morals clauses in them - a fact, along with paternity suits, that was never far from Parker's mind." (p.205-206) These quotes from a reliable source certainly support Silverseren's view. Onefortyone ( talk) 21:23, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Some further sources:
All reliable sources prove you wrong, DocKino. Onefortyone ( talk) 13:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
According to my sources, Priscilla secretly lived at Graceland from December 1960:
There can be no doubt that Parker had to hide that Elvis lived with a fifteen-year-old girl at Graceland, ElvisFan1981. Onefortyone ( talk) 14:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. But where are the direct quotes from these books? Your first source is Brown and Broeske. These authors say on p.321:
So this source supports the view that Priscilla was seen as Elvis's "live-in Lolita". According to another source, namely Susan M. Moyer and Jerry Osborne, Elvis: The King Remembered (2002), p.85, Priscilla "had lived at Graceland six years before marrying Elvis in 1967". Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius, Elvis: His Life from A to Z (1992) write, p.16:
And here is Karal Ann Marling, Graceland: Going Home with Elvis (Harvard University Press, 1996), p.77:
So he could avoid a scandal, one may add. Onefortyone ( talk) 03:01, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Why? The sources are not strong enough to warrant its inclusion, and they are contradicted by several stronger sources. I don't at all agree that any mention of her being 15 or 16 when she moved there should be added to the article, as I have absolute faith in the fact (and might I point out her own words) that she was 17 when she moved there. She was 2 months away from turning 18 and graduation High School, she was certainly no Lolita figure (Lolita was 12, for goodness sake). As I said above, the press already knew that Priscilla moved to live there a month after she did so, and they didn't care. Parker may have thought it negative publicity, but the cat was out of the bag and it still didn't raise any eyebrows within the media. What an 18 year old woman does with her time is her own business. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 03:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Why not just write what the reliable sources say:
This is a clear statement. Onefortyone ( talk) 01:51, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
I suggest that the proposed contentious claim involving a living person neither has consensus, nor does it meet WP:BLP. Cheers. Collect ( talk) 03:46, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
It is a fact that several sources contradict each other. Guralnick cannot be right, as remarks by the Memphis Mafia members who were with Elvis at the time say otherwise. For instance, according to Alan Fortas, Elvis
See Alan Fortas, Elvis: from Memphis to Hollywood (1992), p.137. Robert Matthew-Walker also writes,
See Robert Matthew-Walker, Heartbreak Hotel: The Life and Music of Elvis Presley (1995), p.57. In her more recent Elvis biography, Kathleen Tracy says:
See Kathleen Tracy, Elvis Presley: A Biography (2006), p.115-116. It seems that Guralnick is just following the official version of the story invented by the Colonel and the Beaulieus for the press that only in 1962 Elvis phoned Priscilla's stepfather, Captain Paul Beaulieu, for his permission assuring the Beaulieus that the young girl would live at Vernon's house, attend a good school and always be chaperoned, and implied that he would marry her when she came of age. However, the Memphis Mafia members know better. It is no wonder, then, that Vanity Fair magazine would eventually call Priscilla "the original rock 'n' roll Lolita". These facts must be mentioned in the article. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:09, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
As for the behavior of DocKino, the participants in this discussion should also consult this page. Onefortyone ( talk)
I see Pass a Method has rejoined us. Would you care to move the discussion forward by making a new, policy-mindful, carefully worded proposal, or not? DocKino ( talk) 20:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Except that this is a terrible, ill-considered proposal that will be reverted on sight for violating our Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy: "Material about living persons added to any Wikipedia page must be written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality, and avoiding original research."
In sum, this "proposal" is potentially libelous, clearly biased, and poorly sourced contentious material that violates our policy on biographies of living persons. Not only will any attempt to bring it into the article be reverted on sight, but per our policy, such reversions are not subject to the 3-revert rule and any efforts to include the proposed statement in anything like its present form will be brought swiftly to the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. DocKino ( talk) 05:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been running an Elvis Fan Club for about 25 years now and in that time I have accepted the good and not so good traites with this entertainers career etc, because I respect him. But when one has to be negative,as I agree about most of his movies and drug abuse so forth,we need to show empathy,of which you and serveral other editors have skillfully done. This is why I believe in part it is now a FA Article. Sadly some people are incapable of feeling any sort of empathy,but show a great skill in being critical.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 01:09, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
To try to nip a rather silly edit war in the bud, I've asked for outside help:
AndyTheGrump ( talk) 00:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
Was there not a story about him wanting to inform on his fellow entertainers to the FBI. Even if the story is untrue, deserves a mention? Jokem ( talk) 15:34, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I have no doubt that he did die on August 16th 1977 - for one thing he wouldn't have wanted his public to know about the high level of drug use even though they were legal. But there was a period for 5 years or so when the idea that he'd "faked" his death to escape the pressures of fame and was still alive and would somehow "come back" probably as a "spiritual leader". There were even claims he'd faked his death due to the fight against organised crime! Whilst these claims now seem to have died their own death, they were quite significant at the time. Should some mention be made of them? At the very least it indicates that there were quite a lot of people who wouldn't just let him die, and desperately wanted to believe he was still around, or the pressure of fame giving some level of credibility to the idea that he might have been tempted to fake his death to escape it. I realise many people would find the whole thing offensive, but the claims were certainly out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.177.218.51 ( talk) 03:55, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey, yeah, it's just like old times here, only with some new names. Meanwhile, I'd like to suggest that BB King's Elvis on Beale Street be moved. "Clearly, it was Dewey who introduced Presley to Beale Street's juke joints and night spots, and he did so only after making hi instantly famous on Jluy 10, 1954... Dewey and Elvis: the life and times of a rock 'n' roll deejay. By Louis Cantor page 148. currently available (along with evidence to support this) through Google Books.) Oh, and Bill Haley was doing rockabilly in 1951, (Listen to Rocket 88 for example. [5] three years before Elvis was one of the "originators". Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC) Yeah Steve,this sort of information you've put forward,I myself find so very interesting,rather than all that other irrelevant dribble. I also read someone that they say that the song "Rocket 88" by Jackie Brenston and the piano playing was Ike Turner,back in the 40's was considered by many to be the first R&B song.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 00:33, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
By March 1954 Bill Haley and Saddlemen/ Comets had 14 releases that Terry Gordon of the Rockin’ Country Style web site rate as “pertinent” in a discussion of what is most commonly known as “Rockabilly”. [6] Note that Sun hadn't recorded anything that would be released by Elvis. The problem is that many if not most authors either don't know about, or chose to ignore everything that came before Elvis. It would be more correct to state that "to the public at large", or "on the national stage", Elvis was appeaered to be an originator of the style. Steve Pastor ( talk) 02:46, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
"But would you agree with me that rock 'n' roll started with Sam Phillips' Sun label? He was recording-" "No, not really, no," Gene interrupted. "Can't say that Sorry. I know Sam real well and Sam picked up on something that was already happening." Gene Vincent being interviewed in "Race with the Devil" pgae 219. Steve Pastor ( talk)
Well, I only mentioned this in passing, but when another editor picked up on it, I decided to begin sharing what I've learned over the past year or two (or three?), since I decided my time on this article was no longer justified and decided to pursue other interests that turned out to lead back here. Anyhow, it's my opinion that a more nuanced statement would better represent the facts, rather than simply going with what most authors have written. If no other editors agree, and I have completed the presentation of those facts, or it turns out that no one is interested, I will rest my case.
Although we did not agree in certain points in the past, Steve, in this case I would like to support your view. Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins write:
and therefore Escott and Hawkins's book "uses a study of Sun — its distinctive sound, its artists, and its market — as a starting point for a wider study of rockabilly music." See Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins, Sun Records: The Brief History of the Legendary Recording Label (1980), p.i. The authors add on p.64:
Did Elvis's band members use fiddles? Earlier rockabilly artists obviously did. This means that Elvis was not the originator of rockabilly. Here is another source that discusses the "Rockabilly ideal", i.e. "rebellion against societal controls, excess, hedonism, and a sense of a community among outsiders":
See The Southern Quarterly, vol. 22, 1983, p.79. Calling Elvis one of the originators of rockabilly (as in the Wikipedia article) seems wrong to me, in view of the sources cited above. Other musicians were the originators. Onefortyone ( talk) 23:34, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
Here is a reliable source explicitly stating that Elvis was not the originator of Rockabilly. It cites Carl Perkins who
See Wayne Jancik, The Billboard Book of One-Hit Wonders (1998), p.16. This means that neither Elvis nor Perkins were the originators of Rockabilly. Onefortyone ( talk) 01:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
Let's note that when Haley covered Rocket 88 in 1951 - that's 3 years before Elvis - Sam Phillips did the production in Jackie Brenston's version. Those are a fact, unlike the opinions written by many writers whom DocKeno continues to cite. Perhaps Phillips never heard what Haley did with the song, an arrangment that had the esential elements of "rockabliiy", again, as evaluated by someone who spent thousands of hours creating a database on the subject.
I did some further research. In his Complete Idiot's Guide to Elvis (1997), p.85, Frank Coffey writes that " 'Crazy Man Crazy' was the first rockabilly record to make the Billboard pop chart in 1953." According to Michael Campbell’s Popular Music in America (3rd edition, 2009), p.161, Carl Perkins was of the opinion that "rockabilly music was a country man’s song with a black man’s rhythm" continuing a long line of country takes on black music. The author adds that "the sound of rockabilly was not confined to Memphis or even the South. The idea of countrifying rhythm and blues had spread throughout North America." This author further writes that "Bill Haley recorded the first big rockabilly hit." According to Craig Morrison’s Go Cat Go! Rockabilly Music and its Makers (1996), p.35, Bill Haley’s Rock the Joint of 1952 is "bona fide rockabilly, perhaps even the birth of the style." In his Supremely American: Popular Song in the 20th Century (2005), p.134, Nicholas E. Tawa writes that the first white offerings of rock 'n' roll were given the designation "rockabilly" and that "Rock 'n' roll emerged more clearly as a white genre with the 1953 record 'Crazy Man Crazy,' sung by Bill Haley." According to Brock Helander’s The Rockin' '50s: The People who made the Music (1998), p.13, "Rockabilly developed in the early to mid '50s. It usually featured frantic, uninhibited lead vocals, a wild stinging lead guitar, and thumping stand-up bass. Rockabilly found its first widespread expression thanks to Sun Records... Bill Haley and the Comets were perhaps the earliest purveyors of rockabilly... They scored major pop hits from 1953 to 1956 with songs such as 'Crazy, Man, Crazy,' 'Dim, Dim the Lights,' the classic 'Rock Around the Clock' (...), 'Burn That Candle,' and 'See You Later, Alligator.' " All of these sources clearly support Steve Pastor's view that there were rockabilly songs before Elvis appeared on the scene. Onefortyone ( talk) 00:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Rockabilly crystallized into a recognizable style in 1954 with Elvis Presley's first release, on the Sun label of Memphis. Presley announced the arrival of rockabilly through his dynamic stage act, and the style spread into Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, Louisiana, and neighboring states. Musicians inspired by Presley joined the movement, bringing their own backgrounds. (p. x)
Rockabilly ripened in Memphis, where Sam Phillips' Sun Records, a small regional outfit nurtured it.... Among the most seminal musicians were Elvis Presley, Carl Perkins, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Roy Orbison.... Over the next two years [beginning in 1956], a string of number-one recorded hits [by Presley] dominated the charts and went a long way toward defining the rockabilly style.... (pp. 134–35)
Bill Haley (The Saddlemen) Rock the Joint Essex 303— "Jumpy opus is an odd mixture of c.&w. and r.&b." from Billboard Apr 26, 1952. More than two years B.E. Steve Pastor ( talk) 20:52, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
Now that you are familiarizing yourself with the RCS site, you might want to go to the Advance Search page and do a search for "perintent" songs in the year 1952, then 1953. You will see numerous songs by numerous artists. You will also see that there are many more in 1953 than in 1952. Thank you for your continuing comments as I continue to present the information I have come across since leaving this article years(?) ago. Upon completion of that presentation, and perhaps a more concise statement of the points presented, we will see if other editors agree with my suggestion that the current statement should be modified. Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:38, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Just another opinion on Elvis for today. “Elvis Presley is an after-the-fact personality in regard to the origin of rock ‘n’ roll, but his sudden and enormous popularity played a key role…” Rock! It’s Still Rhythm and Blues. Lawrence N. Redd. The Black Perspective in Music, Vol 13 No 1 Spring 1985 p 39. More to come over the next few days. Steve Pastor ( talk) 23:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
There's a book I've been looking into purchasing today, mainly because it includes information about Elvis, but it's primarily about the history of Rockabilly. It's from last year, so I'm assuming fairly up to date with its research, and is written by Greil Marcus with input from Michael Dregni, Peter Guralnick, Luc Sante, Robert Gordon, Sonny Burgess. Each of these names are very well known within the Elvis community, and all of them are considered very knowledgeable when it comes to his life and career. Several of them, if not all, are considered highly credible music historians in their own right outside of Elvis. Here's some of what the book had to say regarding Elvis and Rockabilly.
I don't know all that much about the history of rockabilly, but when I read parts of the book I thought it might be relevant to this conversation. The book is called Rockabilly: The Twang Heard 'round the World - The Complete Illustrated History, and it's available to buy now. Here is a link to the google pages that I have quoted above. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 14:26, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Johnny and Dorsey Burnette, assisted by their friend guitarist Paul Burlison, jumped ahead of history in 1953 by rocking up the traditional country songs of the day and performing forbidden up-tempo, segregated black songs in the joints around Memphis, Tennessee. In fact, they were the first musical pioneers who helped to found Rockabilly music-a year before Elvis Presley's Big Bang "accident" of 1954. from "The Rockabilly Legends" by Jerry Naylor and Steve Haliday. 2007. More to come from this source. Steve Pastor ( talk) 21:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Right. We'll get to where you can hear Elvis says that what he Scotty and Bill just recorded "sounds like Carl Perkins", and how he knew what Perkins was already doing (and the Dorsey's et al). To me that means he knew he hadn't exactly created something new. So, don't anyone get me wrong. Elvis was HUGH in his impact, and he did bring something new - mostly his voice - to the mix. I like "trendsetter". But even a footnote might capture it. Don't know yet. But thankfully, I've got just a few more items to post over the next few days. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
When Elvis walked into the Sam Phillips Recording Service, he was asked by Phillips's assistant Keisker, "What kind of singer are you?" Elvis said, "I sing all kinds." ... "Hillbilly?" "Yeah, I sing hillbilly." He just summarized what was already there - various blends of blues, R&B, country etc. Only his voice was unique. There can be no doubt that the earliest rockabilly songs were sung by others. As Michael Campbell, in his Popular Music in America, says: "Bill Haley recorded the first big rockabilly hit." (3rd edition, 2009), p.161.) Onefortyone ( talk) 01:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Just for a new start, why has this well-sourced and useful edit been removed from the Elvis article? Onefortyone ( talk) 21:08, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Steve Pastor, who is one of the rockabilly experts here, seems to agree with my opinion. Interestingly, there seems to be no consensus about the definition of "rockabilly". Here is an interesting passage from Craig Morrison's Go Cat Go! Rockabilly Music and its Makers (1996), p.9-10:
In view of this statement by a rockabilly expert, does it make sense to call Elvis one of the originators of rockabilly? I don't think so. Why not just say, "Presley was one of the greatest performers and popularizers of rockabilly" ? Onefortyone ( talk) 23:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
Here are my thoughts on the latest source provided by 141;
In 141's own words, this source is from a "rockabilly expert", and therefore it can be considered fair to use in the argument that Presley was the originator, not just "one of the originators", of rockabilly. I've said before that the word "originator" might be what some editors here have a problem with, yet even some sources provided by those editors has claimed Presley as the "originator" of rockabilly. If I was writing this article from scratch, taking into account the sources I've read regarding rockabilly, at this point I would have no problem with using the term "one of the originators" again. At this point, after much discussion and reading of many sources, I don't think there's enough reason to change the current article's wording regarding this matter. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 06:53, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Tom and ElvisFan have made arguments for retaining the existing language that are quite different and both very convincing. I'm convinced by them, and by all the sources I've looked at it. Let's leave it as it is. It is clear that there will be no consensus in favor of a change for the foreseeable future, if ever, so further exhausting our time and energy on this is clearly pointless. We can move on. DocKino ( talk) 05:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Rocky, while Dorsey named his newborn son Billy - both boys named after professional'boxers. The proud fathers dedicated a week of their performances, and then a whole month, to their new babies. "This is a Rocky 'n' Billy song," they'd say,and they'd romp into "Tear It Up" or something else. Eventually they wrote a song called "Rocky 'n'Boogie." Inevitably, someone in the crowd would forget the name of the song and call out, "Play that Rockabilly song." To all of us who were there at the beginning, that's where Rockabilly really got its name. The Burnettes didn't record their song until after Elvis smashed his way into the history books, but they birthed the name for this new and vibrant world-changing music. Rockabill Legends page 264 ~ (not many page #s!). According to wikipedia Billy was born May 8, 1953. "Two consecutive months" would be April/May or May/June. This isn't an exact date, but it looks like locals in Memphis knew the word "Rockabilly" a full year before July 1954. Steve Pastor ( talk) 00:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
"Terry Gordan of RCS isn' the only one who thinks Haley did rocabilly before Elvis. Writing of Haley, "during the early 1950s, through a seuccession of experiments, to produce what he call cowboy-jive, whcih became hillbilly boogie and later rockabilly." p 193 "Let the Good Times Roll -the Story of Louis Jordan and his music. John Chilton. Steve Pastor ( talk) 21:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
After an early rendition of "Blue Moon of Kentucky", Sun Records owner Sam Phillips exclaimed, "BOY, that's fine, that's fine. That's a POP song now!." [1] Presley responded, "That sounds like Carl Perkins!" [2] I posted this information on this talk page previously, before leaving the article. I asked that people check the reference. I'm not aware of anyone responding. But, Perkins was in Jackson, not Memphis. And although Jackson is in Tennessee, how did Elvis know what Perkins sounded like since at that time when Carl had never had any records released? Looks like Jackson would be too far for even his radio performances to reach Memphis. Steve Pastor ( talk) 22:36, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Remember "Crazy, Man Crazy" and how it was the first rockabilly song to be in the top 20 a year before Elvis first recorded with Bill and Scotty? Bill Haley stated the following regarding Elvis speaking to him back stage in Oklahoma City in 1954/1955. "He was only a nineteen year old kid then and had a lot of spunk. His eargerness to learn reminded me of myself back when I was his age. He told me his favorite song was "Crazy, Man Crazy", and after he heard it he knew he wanted to be a singer too." from "Sound and Glory" page 103. So, We don't have to speculate about if Elvis heard the song. Steve Pastor ( talk) 01:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh DocKino, historical evidence suggests that certain claims that Elvis originated rockabilly at Sun seem to be wrong. According to this Billboard article, Charlie Feathers may have invented rockabilly in 1949. According to Glen Jeansonne, David Luhrssen and Dan Sokolovic’s well-researched new study, Elvis Presley, Reluctant Rebel: His Life and Our Times (2011), Charlie Feathers
Steve Pastor has already shown that Elvis was well aware of the fact that he didn't invent the new sound. Therefore, Elvis should not be called an originator of rockabilly in the Wikipedia article. Onefortyone ( talk) 22:37, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
Awww, 141, you just said an untruth (surprise!) when you said that "Steve Pastor has already shown that Elvis was well aware of the fact that he didn't invent the new sound". Neither Steve nor anyone else in this thread has established anything about what "Elvis was well aware of."
But, HEY!! THANKS 141, for giving us yet another source that supports the already very, very, very well supported description of Presley as one of the originators of rockabilly: "Perhaps Elvis, in addition to his many other musical interests, was already a junior player in the developing rockabilly sound with other Memphis musicians well before that fateful July night in the Sun Studio." Well done, 141, well DONE. DocKino ( talk) 11:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
So, Elvis said, during his earliest sessions with Scotty and Bill, "That sounds like Carl Perkins". But, how did he know what Carl sounded like? It didn't quite fit. Somehow I found out about an article in "The Atlantic" about Carl Perkins from December 1970, and got a reprint. Carl is quoted. "Elvis, he came from the same environment as me, though not as poor, and he told me later that he had come up to Jackson and seen us one night at El Rancho. His manager then, Bob Neal, a big DJ at WMPS in Memphis, had seen us too." It must have been before that first recording session (otherwise how would he have known what Carl sounded like?). Elvis, Carl, and eventually Phillips knew that their music was similar. But Carl had already been doing it for years, just as Bill Haley had. And probably a bunch of other folks, but they never got recorded or got into the books.
Monday,July 5 1954 The three of them went to the Sun Studio because Sam Phillips wanted to hear them on tape. Recently developed,magnetic recording tape made it possible for them to do one take of a song,listen to it,then make adjustment for the next take. Nothing special happened at that session until Presley began fooling around and playing an obsure 1946 blues song,'That's All Right',during a break. Elvis started singing Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup's blues song,'That's All Right',with a fast rhythm and in a more casual style than most blues songs,and Moore and Black jumped in. Phillips voice boomed out from the control booth,'What are you doing?" None of them really knew. How could they? How could they know that they had stumbled onto a new sound for a new generation? Sam recognized it right away. He was amazed that the boy even knew Arthur 'Big Boy' Crudup - nothing in any of the songs he had tried so far gave any indication that he was drawt to this kind of music at all. But this was the sort of music that Sam had long ago who heartedly embraced...And the way the boy performed it,it came across with a freshness and exuberance,it came across with the kind of clear eyed,unabashed originality that Sam sought in all the music that he recorded,it was 'different',it was itself. Phillips was excited about the trio's sound and recognized its potential. He asked them to refine their unique interpretation of 'That's All Right',and then he re recorded it. At the time he cut his first record for Sam,there was no word that could adequately describe his style of music. When the press attempted to explain his sound,they usually made a mess of it,often confusing their readers with inappropriate or comical comparisions to other types of music. Elvis was referred to at various times as a 'hillbilly singer','a young rural rhythm talent',a 'white man...singing Negro rhythms with a boppish approach to hillbilly music'. Not long after Elvis' success,other rockabilly and country-western singers showed up on the doorstep of Sun Studios,hoping that Phillips could work the same magic with them as he had with Elvis,Phillips eventually recorded Johnny Cash,Jerry Lee Lewis,Carl Perkins,Roy Orbison,Charlie Feathers,Billy Lee Riley,Dickie Lee and other artists. July 1954 not long after the 17th Sam Phillips asks WMPS Memphis disc jockey Bob Neal to book Elvis on his Country Music Jamboree at the Overton Shell that featured Slin Whitman and Billy Walker as the headliners. It would be their first professional public performance as a band. Source: Elvis Presley News:Elvis Aaron Presley 1953-1955 The Hillibilly Cat/EPE What I don't quite undertand Steve in the above about Bob Neal,is that Elvis had already done his first recording,before he had even meet Bob Neal,let alone become his Manager.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 01:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Steve,I thank you for your explanation. But to say people like Carl and others already sounded like Elvis did before Elvis was recorded and his record was played on the radio,I'd think I'd have to agree to disagree with you on that one. But I will acknowlege a couple of things with you though. I remember reading in Scotty Moore's book he mentions admiring the guitarist out of Bill Haley's band the Coments,who happened to be a Jazz player I believe, and also stating that he thought the Rolling Stones were the best Rock'n'Roll band in the 60's. But in saying all that, many bands and musicians including Elvis and the Blue Moon Boys and Bill Haley and The Comets,Carl Perkins and many others put their cards on the table. As Elvis had said in an interview "I happened to come along when there was no trend,I was very lucky.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 07:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Everything you've added recently is very interesting, 141, but what has any of it got to do with rockabilly? ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 01:49, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, if it is in fact rockabilly he's talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that the music did not have the name "rockabilly" before Elvis came along. There are still far more sources that state he is ONE OF the originators, and many that state he IS THE originator, of rockabilly, and therefore I see no strong enough reason to change it. The article doesn't claim he invented it, it claims he was one of the originators, backed up by many sources. We'll have to agree to disagree until further evidence can be discovered. And for the record, the article doesn't claim that Elvis created the sound. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 03:12, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Earlier this was quoted from “Rockabilly: The Twang Heard 'Round the World: The Illustrated History” "Elvis invented rockabilly. He also invented Rockabilly Style.” This statement was written by Sigrid Arnott. Other publications by Arnott are: “Medieval fasting women : dynamics of gender and power”, and “KnitKnacks: Much Ado About Knitting.” We can perhaps discount this one as the opinion of a respected music historian, I’d say. BTW, if you haven't been looking at the talk pages ElvisFan identified the seeming mention of Carl Perkins as coming from another, later recording session. But I see that 141 pointed out the Scotty Moore acknowledged that Perkins and others were doing rockabilly style before he, Bill Black, and Elvis recorded. Steve Pastor ( talk) 19:09, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
"There's a book I've been looking into purchasing today, mainly because it includes information about Elvis, but it's primarily about the history of Rockabilly. It's from last year, so I'm assuming fairly up to date with its research, and is written by Greil Marcus with input from Michael Dregni, Peter Guralnick, Luc Sante, Robert Gordon, Sonny Burgess. Each of these names are very well known within the Elvis community, and all of them are considered very knowledgeable when it comes to his life and career. Several of them, if not all, are considered highly credible music historians in their own right outside of Elvis. Here's some of what the book had to say regarding Elvis and Rockabilly." Greil Marcus appears to have no credentials as musician. Does anyone have any information to the contrary? Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
There is clearly ample historical evidence and critical opinion (some of which is cited above) in support of rockabilly's existence prior to 1954 to require that any statement that Elvis Presley was an "originator" of rockabilly be balanced with a counter statement. Either that, or the claim should be excised altogether and replaced with something less controversial.
It must be remembered that while everyone has an equal right to an opinion, that does not mean that all opinions are equal. To wit: Katherine Charlton's claim that Presley was "rockabilly's originator" is an opinion unsupported (if not flatly contradicted) by fact. Charlton is a retired community college music history professor with an academic background in classical music. However much postgraduate study she's done since she earned her MA in music history from CSU Fullerton (which did not and does not have a rock/pop music program), it is ludicrous to claim that she is a more reliable authority on rockabilly than Carl Perkins or Scotty Moore. If Perkins and Moore state that they, Presley, and Sam Phillips did not invent rockabilly, then that carries substantially more weight than anything Charlton writes to the contrary—even if McGraw-Hill publishes it in a textbook. If Charlton can substantiate her claim, that's one thing. However, to simply accept the word of an academic over those of the subjects of her studies is to have the tail wag the dog, and it makes a mockery of Wikipedia's intent when it comes to the all-important doctrine of verifiability. (Likewise, Sigrid Arnott's casual assertion that "Elvis invented rockabilly" should not be taken out of context: it was merely a setup for her slightly less dubious assertion that "he also invented Rockabilly style"—meaning style of dress rather than music, to which her credentials as a "textile artist, historian, and author" apply.)
Presley, Perkins, et al. developed, mastered, and greatly popularized a music that they did not originate. It is hardly a slight against any of them to say so. Presley may be the single most important entertainer in the history of American (and perhaps even global) popular music in terms of his impact on other musicians and the general public alike. His legacy is not improved by claiming for him things that he did not do. Pstoller ( talk) 22:37, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Some further sources:
Elvis himself said:
I think it's time now to change the passage in the article which falsely claims that Elvis was one of the originators of rockabilly. Onefortyone ( talk) 23:30, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the proposal to replace "one of the originators" with "the most important popularizer." Steve Pastor ( talk) 17:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Hey I got a question, if Elvis himself said that he never started rockabilly then why do some folks insist he be giving credit to something even he knew he never created? I like this new edit as a "important popularizer" because that's what he really was and popularizing a genre that already exist (rock and roll & rockabilly) is still respecting his legacy in music history. BrothaTimothy ( talk · contribs) 04:25, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
In order to avoid disagreements similar to the ones above, i would like to see Dockino (and others) to make a proposal. I have collected some references so we can collaborate for consensus. Whats the best to word (a) Elvis relationships with youngeer girls and/or (b) attempts to cover this up, using the following sources? (feel free to add more sources);
Pass a Method talk 10:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi DocKino
On 12 January 2012 ( 05:19) you wrote : "Because nothing you've just quoted in any way supports the claim that "Colonel Tom Parker made sure that Priscilla's age did not get out to the media during that time period."
Apparently you are right. Look at this article on Feb 28, 1960
-- Roujan ( talk) 10:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi DocKino
Look this page. The second link titled : <Elvis Presley Due To Fly Back>. Just below there are other links which proves that Colonel Tom Parker has never hidden the age of Priscilla. On the link <Meriden Journal March 1, 1960> we can also read :<Presley told a news conference he had been dating Priscilla for three or four months> http://www.google.com/search?q=elvis+presley+sold+million&hl=en&gl=fr&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=g9RZT5fGFMig8QO0rbnXDg&ved=0CBQQpwUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=601#hl=en&gs_nf=1&ds=n&pq=elvis+presley+sold+million&cp=24&gs_id=22&xhr=t&q=elvis+presley++priscilla&pf=p&gl=fr&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&oq=elvis+presley++priscilla&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=91c5be38b58163d7&biw=1024&bih=601
-- Roujan ( talk) 10:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Can you prove, without any doubt, that she lived at Graceland before the age of consent? She was literally weeks away from her 18th birthday when she moved to Memphis, and Nash uses the term "several weeks" to describe how long she lived with Vernon and Dee before moving in with Elvis. Does any of that prove she lived at Graceland before her 18th birthday? ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 02:08, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
After wading my way through this lengthy and repetitive debate, I have to ask: Is this material—true or not, verifiable or not—really pertinent to a Wikipedia bio of Elvis Presley? There are many things that Presley may or may not have done in his private life, but unless it can be demonstrated that these things had a significant effect on his public career, I don't see how they have any pressing relevance. Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Presley began having sexual relations with Pricilla Beaulieu in Germany when she was 14, and then similarly assume that she moved in with Presley when she was 16, the fact remains that there was no scandal; Presley's career was not derailed; and he and those around him seem to have made no significant creative or business decisions in response to this alleged tinderbox (beyond allegedly taking some care as to not expose it). It has virtually nothing to do with why Presley is a public figure, nor how he is generally perceived. (Contrast this with Presley's drug use, which is extremely relevant to his image and career.) The only real argument I see in favor of including this information is the allegation that Colonel Parker used "secret sex films" (not featuring Beaulieu) to blackmail Presley into signing a bad contract. However, only Earl Greenwood has put this story forward—repeated, but never substantiated, by Penthouse, Kathleen Tracy, and Liz Smith. So, the question isn't, "Is it true?" or, "Can you prove it?" but, "So what?" Besides, there's an entire separate article on Presley's personal relationships here. I question whether that article needs to exist, but as it does, putting the same material in the main article would be redundant. So, how about giving this poor, dead horse a respite? Pstoller ( talk) 04:23, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
"and there can be no doubt that Elvis secretly kept Priscilla in his bedroom before she was of the age of consent." You've lost this proposal on more than one occasion. There is an extreme doubt, seeing that there's absolutely no proof to what you're saying. Keep your blatant slander to yourself. Also, any such claims of Presley having an "affair" with Nick Adams is entirely an allegation, there's no proof to back any of it up, hence why it won't be added to this article. Priscilla herself has stated that your proposed statements are indeed false, along with many other trustworthy sources, no one here that has a good head on their shoulders is going to agree with you on either note, and frankly, I'm sick and tired of reading your ridiculous slander. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.0.168.187 ( talk) 04:56, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
One would hope that we would grow up sooner or later and move on!-- Jaye9 ( talk) 09:33, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
For me when researching anything on Elvis Pstoller,it's not about what is being said is all that important,it's more to do with who's saying that is.-- Jaye9 ( talk) 00:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
...were prominent enough figures in his life to be mentioned in the lead.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
05:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
::Why shouldn't it be added to the lead is a better question. Several pages for popular entertainers have some aspect of their personal life mentioned in the lead.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
23:23, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
:::How long before someone replies or throws their opinion in?
Tradepath8 (
talk)
21:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
:::::What argument do you want? It just should be. That's like asking a person why do they wear clothes, or why do they eat. Because they should. Really, why do you want it to not be mentioned?
Tradepath8 (
talk)
03:31, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
The "years active" should read as follows:
1953-1977
Yet someone keeps persisting on having it look like this:
1953-77
The second version looks like an unprofessional, abbreviated mess. I haven't seen the "years active" be abbreviated like this on any other wikipedia page.
Tradepath8 (
talk)
00:58, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
<In the 1970s Elvis was offered $5m to stage a concert in front of the Pyramids in Egypt. When the Colonel declined the offer, Saudi billionaires raised the offer to $10m> http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_real_failure.html ( right column)
Is it true?...If yes, i think it's pertinent -- Roujan ( talk) 15:19, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
There are already references to Parker/Presley being offered work abroad (Palladium, London; Australia). There was a story about Presley being offered a gig at Wembley Stadium too. I can't see what benefit there is in just adding to this list of claims/rumours. The main point is Parker was given inducements to send Elvis abroad and Parker said 'No'. Rikstar 409 13:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
This is more than a rumor. It should be in the article. Why not? Because there aren't reliable sources for this. I see. Is that why this article has three "references" that lead to dead links, and five books that are out of print (and when published were of very small presses). And that's just for one "bonafide" section. Hmm. Jimsteele9999 ( talk) 01:27, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
There are no reliable global TV audience estimates for anything, even the Olympics. Wikipedia:Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. The three books cited for the 1.5-billion figure may be very reliable for most Elvis-related facts, but there is no reason to believe the authors have any special expertise in the area of TV audience estimates. Therefore the blogpost debunking the 1.5-billion figure has precedence, even though blogposts are, other things being equal, less reliable than published books. jnestorius( talk) 16:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
You are right. The original source for all the claims that "Aloha from Hawaii" was broadcast to 1-1.5 billion viewers is a vague estimate given by Billboard, 16 December 1972, p.18, stating that
These viewing figures must be called an Elvis myth promoted by Colonel Parker, especially at a time when Elvis did no longer have as many number-one hits on the charts as he had in his younger years (his last Top Ten hit on the US charts was "Burning Love" in October/November 1972). Onefortyone ( talk) 18:46, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
The name "Presley" derives from the german name "Pressler" from southern Palatine in Germany
http://www.videoregister.de/elvis-presley/2009-01-08/
"Der Name Presley stammt wie die Vorfahren von Elvis Presley aus Deutschland von einem um 1700 ausgewanderten deutschen südpfälzischem Winzer, mit dem Namen Pressler. Das fanden Ahnenforscher im Jahr 1990 heraus."-- 178.254.125.33 ( talk) 18:36, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/deutschstammige-musiker-t297631/
"Hochstadt-aus den Dörfern Niederhochstadt und Oberhochstadt entstanden
Die beiden weitläufig mit Elvis verwandten Ahnenforscher fanden bei Recherchen in Archiven, Steuerlisten und Kirchenbüchern heraus, dass der «Vinedresser» Pressler 1710 in New York mit einem Londoner Auswandererschiff ankam. Pressler-Familien aus dem heutigen Hochstadt gründeten in Pennsylvania einen Ort gleichen Namens. Die Presslers sind heute über die ganzen Vereinigten Staaten verstreut.
«Der Name Pressler bezieht sich in allen bisher bekannten Abstammungsfällen auf Ober -und Niederhochstadt», sagt Gerd Pressler. Mit «höchster Wahrscheinlichkeit» seien trotz lückenhafter Dokumente Valentin Pressler und Elvis Presley in zehnter Generation miteinander verwandt. Indizien seien der Leitname Valentin, der in den Hochstadter Pressler-Familien bis ins 20. Jahrhundert vergeben wurde sowie der Beruf des Auswanderers: Weinbau ist in Hochstadt seit 770 nachweisbar.
Valentin Pressler, der im Zuge der pfälzischen Auswandererbewegung in die USA kam, lebte mit seiner Frau und seinen fünf Kindern zunächst in New York. Später zog die Familie in den Süden, aus dem auch Elvis stammt. Der Name Pressler - auch Preslar, Preßler und Bressler - passte sich im Laufe der Zeit der englischen Sprache an und wurde zu Presley, erzählt Gerd Pressler. Die Herkunft des Familiennamens sei unklar, möglicherweise beziehe er sich auf die bei Pfälzern sehr beliebte Brezel.
«Allein im 18. Jahrhundert wanderten rund 50.000 Pfälzer nach Amerika aus», schätzt der Historiker Roland Paul vom Institut für pfälzische Geschichte und Volkskunde in Kaiserslautern. Städte und Dörfer waren durch jahrzehntelange Kriege verwüstet, die Bevölkerung lebte in großer Armut. In den USA bürgerte sich schnell der Name «Palatines» (Pfälzer) für alle deutschsprachigen Auswanderer ein." -- 178.254.125.33 ( talk) 18:59, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/The Beatles on the issue of capitalizing the definite article when mentioning the band's name in running prose. This long-standing dispute is the subject of an open mediation case and we are requesting your help with determining the current community consensus. For the mediators. ~ GabeMc ( talk| contribs) 00:17, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELV1S Has it that the aforesaid song was a number 1 single, as would RCA and EPE, who manufactured and oversaw the album's release. Therefore such should be added to his #1 singles chart below the article. If someone would, that'd be great. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.228.179.68 ( talk) 12:17, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
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Hello, this is regarding the opening paragraph. It states: He is commonly known by his first name, 'Elvis'. It used to say: He is commonly known by his first name, 'Elvis', 'The King of Rock n Roll', or simply 'The King'. Please change it back.
67.14.243.3 ( talk) 20:02, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Elvis Aron Presley is his name his birth certificate and is NOT spelt with two 'a's in Aron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.126.167 ( talk) 14:20, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
In multiple places in this his middle name is spelled "Aaron". Elvis's middle name was in fact "Aron". This is easily verifiable and needs to be changed so people who use Wikipedia for information will have the correct information, because the way it is now is wrong.
WhovianMama ( talk) 04:33, 28 November 2012 (UTC)Sheila Barnard
It seems this article is missing an important element, Elvis Presley's personal life, namely his spiritual quest. This fact of his life was left out maybe for political reason, but it is important to include it in this page or at least create a dedicated page for Elvis Presley's Spiritual Quest. It is important to include it because it explains a lot of things of Elvis Persona, psychology, mind frame, philosophy and the reason why he chose to mix styles and pronounce certain words in his songs. I understand that this is subjective, but the reality is that it is part of Life. I have tried to create a paragraph in this page, on the Spiritual Quest, but somebody deleted it because the references that I have included were somehow Judged invalid. Watch this : Youtube Elvis Presley Spirituality (2/4) -- Fady Lahoud ( talk) 04:39, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it is, but it seems too insignificant and it deserves at least a section of it's own, (in my opinion vs another ones opinions). I propose to create a section of Elvis Presley Spiritual Quest and develop the theme. I have tried, but somebody deleted it because he or she belied the references to be bogus... Well I propose that he or she search and gives tones of "Good" references, because I believe there is tones out there. And here is another reference: http://www.devorss.com/elvisenter.htm -- Fady Lahoud ( talk) 02:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
http://m.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=6849
In honor of the king's groundbreaking performances in 1973, the governor of Hawaii Neil Abercrombie declared January 14, 2013, as "Elvis, Aloha from Hawai'i via Satellite Day." The governor made the announcement at the Neal S. Blaisdell Center last night during the 40th anniversary celebration. "Aloha from Hawaii" returned to the same place for a one-night only enhanced screening celebrating the concert seen by over a billion people worldwide
71.234.119.3 ( talk) 13:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
http://m.elvis.com/news/detail.aspx?id=6849
In honor of the king's groundbreaking performances in 1973, the governor of Hawaii Neil Abercrombie declared January 14, 2013, as "Elvis, Aloha from Hawai'i via Satellite Day." The governor made the announcement at the Neal S. Blaisdell Center last night during the 40th anniversary celebration. "Aloha from Hawaii" returned to the same place for a one-night only enhanced screening celebrating the concert seen by over a billion people worldwide
71.234.119.3 (talk) 13:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Elvis hated being called "The King" and said so repeatedly Santamoly (talk) 09:04, 7 February 2013 (UTC) Elvis hating his title is not Germaine to adding this update . I clearly posted the link that shows the governor of Hawaii proclaiming 40 years later aloha elvis day . Please include it 71.234.119.3 (talk) 03:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC) So you think that this opportunistic promotional blather takes precedence over what Elvis repeatedly said about being called "The King"? Santamoly (talk) 02:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
it is not opportunistic. the proclamation shows the amazing popularity of elvis and his music. its a fitting eneding to aloha elvis. please. the very least show the proclamation in the article.
68.199.5.208 ( talk) 19:46, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
In recognition of Elvis' charitable contributions Memphis Mayor William Ingram, along with the Governor of Tennessee Buford Ellington, officially declared October 29, 1967, "Elvis Presley Day" in the city of Memphis and in the State of Tennessee..( the king donated yearly to over 50 charities )Memphis tribune
Some of the more publicized charities Elvis gave to were;
On March 24, 1961 Elvis performed in Hawaii for a benefit concert, held at the Bloch Arena, to raise money for a memorial for the USS Arizona which had sank during the bombing of Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 historically known as “a day that will live in infamy”. Elvis raised $ 65,000.00 and a plaque was prominently placed, at the memorial site, acknowledging Elvis’ efforts in raising the money. Sadly, the plaque was removed due to the acts of a few powerful “non-Elvis fans” and the return of this plaque remains an emphasis of mine and should be to Elvis Presley Fans Worldwide. In in 1964 Elvis bought the FDR Presidential Yacht named the Potomac and donated it to the St. Judes Children s Research Hospital, who ultimately sold it for an amount of $55,000.00, spearheaded at the time by entertainer Danny Thomas (Father of Marlo Thomas aka: “That Girl” TV Star and wife of Phil Donahue the talk show host). One bit of humor involving this event was that Colonel Parker, upon inspecting the yacht the morning that Elvis would personally present the yacht to Danny Thomas with many members of the press being present, saw that the yacht was in dire need of maintenance including paint. As only the Colonel would he authorized ONLY the side of the yacht that would be photographed to be freshly painted leaving the rest of the yacht discolored with peeling paint evident. In 1968 Elvis allowed one of his Rolls Royce to be auctioned off for a charity that assisted mentally retarded children. In 1973 Elvis performed the first “live concert/broadcast via Worldwide satellite”, which was seen by a record audience of over ONE BILLION people, known as “Aloha from Hawaii”. This concert was actually a benefit concert for the Kuiokalani Lee Cancer Fund. The goal was to raise $ 25,000.00 but this amount was greatly exceeded and actually raised $ 75,000.00. In 1975 Elvis gave a concert in Jackson Mississippi that raised in excess of $ 100,000.00 for victims of a tornado. This concert was deeply personal to Elvis because when Elvis was a child a tornado tore through his hometown in Tupelo, Mississippi and killed many people.
I think elvis earned it
71.234.119.3 ( talk) 16:25, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Signs_Of_The_Zodiac
redirects to elvis page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.237.57 ( talk) 23:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I would have thought Elvis would not have been the most controversial person in the world. Apart the fact the whole article reads like the president of his official "fan club" wrote it, there seems little reason for it to be locked
I realise the reason it could be. I was just asking about why "this" article is locked. ie. What particular reason for "this" article -- CTtheKiwi ( talk) 00:06, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
According to people magazine and time magazine elvis was declared the biggest teen idol on history .please put that in the beginning
Elvis is considered the greatest teen idol of all time per people magazine and time magazine .
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1853419_1853382_1853376,00.html
Thank you 76.222.86.76 ( talk) 13:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
According to people magazine and time magazine elvis was declared the biggest teen idol on history .please put that in the beginning
Elvis is considered the greatest teen idol of all time per people magazine and time magazine .
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1853419_1853382_1853376,00.html
http://www.people.com/people/archive/issue/0,,7566920727,00.html
The time rates the biggest teen idols backwards . Elvis was ranked number one solo and the beatles number one group at ten ( the higher the number , the bigger the rank )
Thank you
76.222.86.76 ( talk) 15:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
P.S. Please don't start a new section every time you post. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 18:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
Please put that elvis is commonly known as King of Las Vegas " he is the only performer in hx to raise Vegas revunue 10 percent across the board http://www.vegas.com/elvis/
Thank you
71.234.118.65 ( talk) 21:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
Although this article has been a "featured article", it seems to inevitably drift back into a crude and disgusting gossip sheet, often quoting trash sources and nasty-spirited rumor mongers. The article's disrespectful and trashy tone is in sharp contrast to publications by his friends and co-workers who saw him as a true friend and respected arranger and performer. Unfortunately, there seems to be an endless supply of ignorant, mean-mouthed creeps turning up here to tear the man down using low-quality scandal sheets as "sources" - and that's a pity. Santamoly ( talk) 03:16, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
I've got to agree with Pstoller and Rikstar on this one. The article should be neutral, and fair, to both positive and negative aspects of Presley's life and career. I think it's quite obvious that his friends and co-workers would, for the most part, reflect on him in a more positive manner. However, I've also read/seen/heard many examples from his closest friends who spoke quite negatively on much of Presley's life and career. Presley was human, he wasn't perfect, and there is no way that he could possibly have lived up to the God-like image that some people wanted to project upon him and his memory. I don't agree that any article should be overly negative, but I also don't agree that any article should be overly positive. Balance is important, although it's not always easy to meet everyone's expectations of what is a fair balance and what is not. ElvisFan1981 ( talk) 17:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
The last sentence from the lead: "He has been inducted into multiple music halls of fame."
He has been inducted into multiple music halls of fame.
He is one of only two artists (the other being Johnny Cash) to have been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Country Music Hall of Fame, the Gospel Hall of Fame, and the Rockabilly Hall of Fame.