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Hello. Does anybody own the DVDs and know what ADV's official titles for the episodes are? I made the english episode titles correspond with tv.com's listing ( here) but I see somebody has reverted to the old titles. I think it would be most accurate to list the titles as they appear on the dvd, rathing than from some website's that may just be fansubber's translations of the japanese or german. - Phorque 05:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
At the conclusion of Elfen Lied, there are a number of unanswered aspects about the story:
Hi, Phorque here. Firstly: not all of these are unanswered. Make sure you've read the manga AND watched the anime before labling these as loose ends in the plot. There's also the chance you may have misunderstood. I myself have watched the anime, but only read up to chapter 19 of the manga. I don't even know if loose ends in the plot have a place in the article, at least, not as an entire section unto themselves.
Here are some things I do know:
I, SwordKirby537, have not read the complete manga but I have heard that from people who have read it a few answers to those questions. The manga continues quite aways past where the anime ends, thus expanding on the story quite a bit. NOTE: Please forgive me if my answers are off, since I have never read it myself and don't have anyway of proving these statements, other than that I have heard them multiple times from those who have completed the manga. If any of these answers are off, then please, do correct them.
How is nobody mentioning the ending? The symbolism of the broken clock that they keep showing throughout, starting up again, and the music box stopping. Also, the shadow at the doorway (Lucy?) AshTM 07:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I can answer about diclonius one they are not a different species from humans they are humans just like us just slightly different two neither god nor aliens had nothing to do with them it was all nature. Kuramas little chosen by god quote is merely xenophobia acting not the facts. Lucy in the manga said to kakuzawa after she killed him that he was delusional and living in a self fabricated fantasy world that diclonius are not a different species they are humans only born with horns and a unique power like x mens mutants in a way most people due to xenophobia cannot accept them as human when they are human same with diclonius. That word diclonius was probably invented by kakuzawa in order to segregate them form there fellow man. The institutions and the cruel treatment was probably kakuzawas way of conditioning them as killing machines and so they have no hope of existing together with there fellow man.
We don't really need three images for this article. I think just a description is fine, so we should keep just one.
— Kieff | Talk 07:28, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
The lyric to the opening theme song seems to be not original. [1] ← seems to indicate that the lyrics come from a different source. Also, the first part: "Os iusti meditabitur sapientiam, Et lingua eius loquetur indicium" seems to be Psalm 37:30 in Latin after some Google searching. Would be nice if someone could help identify where the lyric comes from (or maybe it's mentioned on the OST CD album credits). In an earlier edit, a reference to "Beatus Vir" was erased, but I'm not sure why. -- 69.214.227.51 09:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is it even legal to post the entire lyrics here? These songs are copyrighted and so are their lyrics. -- 129.97.84.62 20:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I moved this from my talk page, where Sir Louis made a comment about my removal of his comments.
-- Tarranon 07:05, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I changed "Nyuu" to "Nyu", and added more context as discussed here, I hope it's a good, objective, compromise. --Louis
I added some information to the section dealing with the opening song, but for some reason that was removed. Why is that? My information is accurate. Lilium is not released in a full-version, only a short 1 minute 30 second version is officially available. DarkJedi2 on the Rizon IRC network proved how incomplete it is by making several extended versions using parts of the song he obtained in various ways. His mixes are flawless, and prove how much of the song is actually missing from the version we all know. His last version (his 8th release) is 5 minutes and 38 seconds long, and is titled "Lilium ~Extended DarkJedi Edition - Final Mix~", which he describes as a tweaked version of his 7th mix. I believe this is important information. If people want to hear what the near-complete version sounds like, this is the only person who's worth talking to about this. He is often available in #elfenlied on Rizon, he is an op there. Please add this information back in. Thanks. -- (posted by anonymous IP user)
It's worth noting that the Elfen Lied OST does indeed include an extended version of Lilium, entitled Lilium ~saint version~. This one is sung by the GRIFFIN Chorus, an all-male ensemble. I'm unable to find a listing for the OST itself, but from what I can piece together from the official Japanese website, it seems to have shipped as a part of the Limited Edition volume 1 in Japan. ADV makes no mention of it on their series page, but several enthusiast groups, most notably Nipponsei, have offered up a digital version of the CD over various P2P networks. -- Halbyrd 09:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking that perhaps, given that we've already established a spoiler warning, we should discuss this series' one unfortunately damning loop-hole. I'm not very good at modifying these articles, so it'd probably be better for someone else to take over it however. Of course, if someone could explain this to me, I'd be delighted as well.
It seems to me, that in the series, Diclonius are supposed to become homicidal around age 3. To indulge, seems like a genetic defect as a result of radical mutation, that they become predisposed to psychopathy. Anyways, here's the point. If they have a natural drive to kill humans, but they need to infect humans to reproduce, then which is it? It seems if they're driven to kill humans constantly, they eliminate their breeding stock, but if they merely spread the virus, I could understand xenophobia being a motivator into containing them, but it certainly wouldn't lead to the "demise of the human race" any more than simply evolving would. The way they speak of it, Diclonius would simply kill everyone they could, but then how do they reproduce? But if they simply reproduce, why would they need to kill so much and be such a threat? As they mature, do they become selective about who they kill and who they infect? Is it on a whim? This seems to be such a large contradiction in the storyline, I'm surprised a bigger issue hasn't been made of it.
They make a big deal in the series both that Diclonius are natural murderers, and that they need to use people to spread, and the points cancel each other out. Should this be made a point of? Or am I simply making a geeky rambling? I apologize if I'm merely cluttering the discussion page with my confusion.
I've heard this series borrows heavily from Chobits. If someone familiar with both could add a section talking about this, i think it'd be interesting. -- Brian Kendig 21:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I was reading the article just now, and I noticed that Kouta (the guy who finds Nyu, right?) is described thusly:
Now, I didn't watch the series too carefully, but wasn't he being allowed to live there at the sufferance of Yuki's family as long as he took care of the place? -- Maru (talk) Contribs 16:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Is "diclonius" a proper noun or an adjective or what? Should it be capitalized or not? -- Maru (talk) Contribs 18:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
If they know that they can't control what they create, Why were they created in the first place? I mean they do have the to kill those scintist because the were abuse by them and treated like dogs. That's the one i don't like about this anime. Because of the lack of love and understand they kill. --Anon
I'm moving the spoiler section down. There are no spoilers in the introduction. (Nor should there ever be, in any article. ^_^) If someone thinks there's a spoiler in the intro, that information should be relocated. -- Starwed 07:02, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I only have one right now, but there might be others:
-The link to "Mayhem" in the characters section (talking about Nana being dismembered)leads to a disambiguation page (in which I couldn't find a link pertaining to elfen lied)
States that 'Close-Friend' was mixed up with 'Cousin', but during a flash back in the last DVD, Yuka clearly calls Kouta's Dad 'Uncle'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erufen ( talk • contribs)
I've uploaded a new picture for Professor Kazukawa I screencapped from episode 10 of the anime, shown here. Because it's a screencap instead of a scan, the quality is slightly less than what's already there, but I think the camera angle and overall mood of the image is closer to that used in the front-view dossier-like pictures for all the other characters. Anybody have feelings on this either way, would prefer to see this or what's already there?
In several parts of the opening credits, Lucy is shown with one of her hands forming a specific sign/symbol (whatever you want to call it). Does anyone know if there is accually any symbolism behind this? Or am i just seeing things? They do it a lot though so i assumed that it must mean something. The closest thing i can think of would be a gang hand-sign that symbolized the "West Side" in the united states, but its not quite the same i think, and im sure thats not what it represents in this case...Anyway just wondered if anyone had any ideas. -- Aaronsjet 19:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC) (this was me too, forgot to sign lol)
Your right. I knew I had seen that before. I look into it when I can. -- Psi edit 11:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i have noticed this as well, also in the last episode, where Kouta and Lucy hug, she also has the same symbol on her back, and im pretty sure i've seen it other various times throughout the anime! Erufen 13:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Humm, really? I've been looking into it some more lately since i made this post, and I was starting to think it was just something they invented for this series. It wouldnt make sense to make something like that up though with out explaining it...so it has to have roots somewhere. Perhaps it's related to something in old latin history, like during roman times or something. -- Aaronsjet 19:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
The hand symbol is also imitated by Tupac Shakur in his album "All Eyez on Me". It could be a reference to something... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Eyez_on_Me -- Puzk 14:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah yes, see thats a perfect example of the "west side" hand symbol. If you look close you can see that his thumb is tucked back inside the palm of his hand to form a "W" look. Lucy keeps her thumb outstretched with her other fingers, and her middle and ring fingers are not crossed over, so im guessing that they are most likely not related. I wont deny the are similar though heh. -- Aaronsjet 21:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
At first I thought the ending was a total mindfuck, but now I have figured it out, and who it was that was at the door... Lucy's horns were both shot off, they most likely had this happen so you wouldn't be able to immediatley guess that it was her at the door, and it's also probably symbolic. The last thing Lucy said to Bandoh was something like "This is the last time you'll ever see me." and she walks away from him (presumably after beating his ass again.) So we all know that Lucy/Nyuu has split personalities, I think it must be Nyuu at the door. Lucy dies, Nyuu lives, and she returns home. So she doesn't "die" per se but one of her persoanilites does, if you follow. The music box stops playing lilium to signify the death of Lucy, as she loved that song so much, and the old broken clock starts because Nyuu was always playing with it and interested in it. AshTM 21:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
If you're brave and don't mind spoilers, read the babelfish translation of the japanese article It'd probably be easier if you can just read japanese. ^^
Please note that i cannot read or understand Japanese. The following is a mixture of what i read at the Elfen Lied fan sites, several viweings of the last volumes of the manga, and my own wishful thinking :D. But i do belive it should be useful to fans of Lucy, like myself, should they wish to know how the series/manga ends. Serveral details have been ommited :D
Achtung spoilers:
{{spoilers}}
well going by the manga story line AshTM is correct. Lucy fights and defeats mariko, loses both her horns, but survives the fight. Also, when she gets back to maple inn, she reverts to her 'Nyuu' personaliy and stays that way for a while. Unfortunately, the institute sends fresh and even more sadistic ppl after Lucy. when maple inn is attacked, nyuu reverts to Lucy, with much bigger horns that appear suddenly, also she gets much longer and more powerful vectors than before <<long enough to take down a helicopter in the sky>>, but still gets one of her horns shot off and faints, ending up being captured. The President of the institute warns lucy that over using her vectors is harmful to her body and could end up destroying her. Still, Lucy manages to escape, meets up with kouta and promises him that she will never kill again, and as she leaves, she is attacked by kurama, but kouta throws himself between them and takes the bullet for Lucy. After seeing kouta get hurt, poor Lucy goes beserk and develops super long vectors <<several Kilometers long>> and smashes several buildings in the city, and still kurama gets rescued by nana. on the other han, Lucy contiues destroy the city whilst cradling kouta. unexpectedly, her left hand *falls off* as if her wrist suddenly rotted away. Lucy savs kouta by healing his bullet wound with her tisue, and meanwhile her body continues to rot/liquefy til shes reduced to a limbless torso. At this point they are attacked again by the people from the lab and they explain that Lucys condition is due to her over use of vectors which "destabilise" her body tissues. they try to take back Lucy, but she chooses freedom and kills off the lab people. By this time most of her body has rotted away and all thats left of Lucy is her head <<with half her face roted off>> and just a skeleton and a mass off purtified flesh below her neck. The other girls from the inn show up at this point and Lucy reverts briefly to Nyuu to bid them farewell. For some reason she chooses to attack them again, but suddely the images of Lucy and Nyuu appear before the gang, shielding them from Lucy. <<speculation: as if the personas of Lucy and Nyuu gained seperate conciousness and have come to terms weith their short and tragic life. More importantly, they forgive the brutal cruelty inflicted on them and wish to end it all>>. Lucy then picks up a gun and hands it to kouta and asks him to end her misery. The manga ends with a tearful kouta crying that "he had killed NYUU".
DAS ENDE
Epilogue: all the other charecters seem to survive. Mayu gets adopted by bandou, nana gets adopted by the bastard kurama, whom she still loves tho he performed brutal experiments on her, and yuka and kouta get married and have a daughter. every year during the summer fetival, Kouta visits the place where he first met Lucy, ie at the grave of Lucys dog. he continues to visit this sopt year after year, as if waiting for someone. Fifteen years after the ending of Elfen Lied, <<not sure here, counting the frames its like 11 years. but judging by the age of his daughter, more than 15 years>> kouta visits the same sopt with his daughter <<who looks just like Yuka>> and explins to her about his "very special" friend. His daughter surprisingly, knows about it and locates a bottle half buried in he grave << this is the same bottle that little Lucy buried about 20 years ago, with a mesage and the jade that kouta gave her as a kid>>
Kouta rushes to the bottle and reads the leter from the distant past... the child hood Lucy's message from twenty years ago reads "If you are reading this, you have fulfilled your promise to me". Kouta breaks into tears at this message of forgivenes from his childhood friend decades ago <<perhaps finally realising his true love for Lucy>>
Suddenly two girls appear<< their hair is in ribbons, just as nyuus hair was, as if to conceal horns>>, and koutas daughter introduces them as her friends. on seeing them, Kota inexplicably becomes joyous and the story ends with a smile :D
<<wild speculation: these two are the Reincarnations of Lucy and Nyuu. their age makes it probable that they wer born around the time of Lucys death. Also the fact that kouta is inexplicably happy at seeing them means he some how recognised Lucy and Nyuu in these two girls. At least I personally hope so my self, because after all she has been through, Lucy deserved a chance at happiness. Nyuu also got reicarnated <<something to do with Lucy/nyuus images which appeard just before Lucys death 15 year ago??>>, It appears they are twins who have had loving parents <<more wild speculation :D , Lragely cos lucy was abandoned at birth and this time she gets loving parents to compensate>>. Probably they have the good memories of their past life, the love they got from kouta, without the bitter memories of horrible child hood :end wild speculation>>
In the article I've read that Elfen Lied would be slightly misspelled German for Elf Song. However, if you would consider it might be Dutch instead of German, then there is no problem with the spelling, and the meaning is not altered.
Are we certain there were translation errors?
I removed that small notice. From looking at the Lied article. There doesnt seem to a translation error. -- Psi edit 21:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Just added a quick note to the anime section of the mainpage saying that EL will start on British TV on June 3rd on the Propeller Sky channel (specifically, 9:30pm) Sephjnr 19:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I have mentioned in the article a possible relation between the ending song text and Yuka's jealousy. However, this is just an idea of mine, so I wanted to mention it here so that I can be corrected (in case this is needed). I do not know Japanese but I have an edition with full Italian subtitles, so I've seen in the lyrics sentences like "say I'm the only girl for you". -- Blaisorblade 14:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The vast majority of anime review pages out there spell it "Nyuu" as far as I can see so I'm thinking of changing that. æt ərnal ðrAعon → 08:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Could we get something straight here? Some people are making claims that the show is "satire", ecchi, harem, or, as one put it, comedy. Face it, Okamoto has gone to some liberties with bodily exposure over the series, however there are virtually no sexual references. For those who think it's comedy, sure, there are small bits which are laughable, but I don't think slaughtering, themes of isolation and anger and the show questioning the value of humanity itself is that much of a comedy. Well, maybe, emo comedy. æt ərnal ðrAعon → 09:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
The manga did have alot of sexual references as well as a large amount of nudity, sex scenes and not just of Lucy/Nyuu, not the anime trough but the manga version is cleary ecchi harem/semi mature.. WillTheWitch —Preceding unsigned comment added by WillTheWitch ( talk • contribs) 21:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The article says Diclonii are the result of experimentation. Didn't they say in the anime that it was an evolutionary event, and that they are completely natural. 81.69.78.99 ( talk) 14:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks like Eternal Dragon posted something here about extending the plot section. While its not against the rules to post spoilers and such, it really doesn't add to the article to post the entire plot of the show. You shouldn't be able to use the article as a replacement for watching the show, but you should have a pretty good idea of what it's about. I think the article already does a good job of that. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 22:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The two articles on the opening and ending songs have little contents left once copyvio is removed, and don't really have any credible notability of their own. I suggest the relevant content be merged into the relevant section of this article (or into "Elfen Lied (anime)", should the split occur), so that the song articles can be safely disposed of as copyright violations. Bikasuishin ( talk) 23:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I propose that the information regarding the TV series be made into a new article. While the lead declares that Elfen Lied is a "manga series created by author Lynn Okamoto", the bulk of the information stems from the anime adaptation. There's no info on the manga's development but there's a long section on the anime's production. The bulk of the images are anime screencaps. The plot section summarizes what happens on the TV series and the "Style and themes" and "Reception" relate only to the anime.
I think splitting the article is the way to go. It's a heck of a lot easier that straightening the article to focus on the manga.-- Nohansen ( talk) 03:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Also a lot more information is in the anime then the manga. You could always put more information about the manga yourself. You could also change some pictures to their comic book style. There is a lot of stuff you can do without splitting the article. I see no sense in splitting the article. And I agree with the first person who opposed. You should see the "Русский" article. I know you may not be able to read it, but that is a pretty good Elfen Lied article I have to say. Maybe you could learn off of something like that. Cardinal Raven ( talk) 19:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven
It says diclonius are a different species yet the article on diclonius and many bits in the manga say otherwise infact the description of the manga says mutated homo sapien not something else can someone please fix that-- Vipa Human ( talk) 21:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Problem with that is issues with genetic compatibility and diclonius have been stated to compatible with normal humans and give birth to fertile offspring no infertile hybrids which is what supposed to happen with species of the same genus(kakuzawas line was a glitch in the evolution whos genes diluted mating with normal people, Lucy bloodline fixes this as stated in the manga.) With xmens mutants those issues also pertain too many things are againts them being a different species especially that fact. This is the same issue with diclonius-- Vipa Human ( talk) 22:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I've tagged the article for multiple issues. It needs some serious clean up to comply with the Anime and Manga MoS, the plot cut down, almost all the non-free images removed, and the manga table moved off to its own List of Elfen Lied chapters. There are also some wholly unreferenced sections, numerous unreferenced statements, and some non-neutral language and blatant OR/personal opinion. This is not acceptable in a GA level article. If the article is not brought back up the required GA criteria within two weeks, it will be delisted. Normally, it would qualify for an immediate delisting, but I see some project folks have worked on this, so I'm going to hope that's a sign that clean up is already underway? -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 17:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
One huge additional issue is the lack of balance. I realize information on the manga is more difficult to come by, however the article is horribly unbalanced towards the anime. The plot and character sections need to be sure it is for the manga, not the anime. The style/themes needs paring down on the anime side, and expanded, if possible, on the anime side. It might also be worth considering to move that to the anime list, along with the anime production section, and make the episode page into something closer to what we see with a season page versus the usual list only anime episode lists. -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 05:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
The current Wikimedia foundation licensing policy still allows for the non-free exemptions on the English wikipedia under the fair-use rational.
Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) A project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed (if any), that recognizes the limitations of copyright law (including case law) as applicable to the project, and permits the upload of copyrighted materials that can be legally used in the context of the project, regardless of their licensing status. Examples include: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content and http://pl.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Dozwolony_u%C5%BCytek.
I see the phrase "project specific" and you mentioned that this project does things differently, but i haven't come across any specific image policy specific to manga and anime, so I'm going to have to defer to the WP criteria. Fair use is acceptable under the following conditions:
Placing an image of Lucy breaking out of the base in the plot section conveys the idea of the first 15 mins of the anime (and I assume the manga) in a way that cannot be conveyed merely through words. It also meets all of the above criteria. No one is ignoring WP:NONFREE, we're all very familiar with it. Let's avoid this edit war and DISCUSS this. I think æt should have some say since he's been working on page for quite a while. Also keep in mind that this was once a featured article and hasn't really changed that much since then. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 19:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I've been working for three months to get this article to FA status, and believe that this recent wave of edits is anything but beneficial to achieving such. According to WP:MOS-AM:
#Articles should be self-contained, only referring to subpages for additional information or details if the main article or a section becomes too long. Follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Summary style when creating subarticles.
In regards to this:
As far as I'm concerned, Collectonian is cutting the quality of this article in her own best interest. Several of the sections need to remain in order for it to be upgraded to FA or even stay a GA, and removal of information is contrary to this objective. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 03:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
(Unindent) (Thinks to self: How is it that I became the middle man?) Okay, this is what I suggest should be done. Condense the plot, make it manga-centric, give an overview of the beginning and major plot points and an ending if one is available, as in one of us (or some other editor) can provide one (I'm looking at you, Collectonian, on this issue). Expand differences between media. Characters looks okay, but the image at List of Elfen Lied characters can be included. The two images in "Style and themes" I believe are necessary, since they help illustrate the point about the nudity and violence in the series (pic one), and the direct relation to "The Kiss" (pic two). Collectonian herself has argued about the inclusion of such images that help to illustrate prose at List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters, and I do not believe any of the current images used in the article are mere decoration, so shouldn't be removed. The individual character pics don't belong there (as I said, single image is better) and of the two anime images formally used in the article, I think this image might be able to be salvaged, if it can be used to illustrate Lucy's dark side. The image of Kouta and Lucy as kids I think is superfluous, and what with the plot eventually reduced, one image for this section will be enough. Everything else looks to be in-line, at least for a GA. For FA concerns, copyedit the prose, cite everything, expand production, and perhaps condense the Characters section into a smaller single paragraph (I myself had to do this on the recently GA-promoted Air (visual novel)). The infobox image can be the last thing debated, if need be (as it's the least of the article's problems). And cite anything you can for it to be a GA standard as well.-- 十 八 08:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
In short, the images that Collectonian removed are excessive and in violation of WP:NFCC, but per Juhachi, some of them may be utilized to reflect part of the plot. The Diclonius section is really excessive and needs to go, as it violates WP:WAF and simply needs to be summarized better. That and the article should be merged or deleted. And why the hell is there edit warring over the infobox? Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 09:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
To be brief, if anyone reverts someone again I'm going to lock the page until you guys can solve this. That means; I don't care if you disagree with someone's edit, bring it up here, don't go reverting. Please don't make me lock it; we're all mature here, surely we can handle some civilized discussion? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 05:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
How about we get the article in line with MoS and the relevant WikiPolcies and worry about the images after the content is in place. I'm tired of debating it. I still disagree about with their removal, but it will be easier make deicisions about images after the article is in better shape. For now, I gonna go get a scanlsation of the manga. I think we can all agree that the plot section needs to shrink and that there needs to be less of a focus on the anime. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 08:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that many articles on video games, FAs included, actually quote from cutscenes and dialogue in the game and use them as inline citations. Is this passable to make GA/FA standard in this article? It did for several video game FAs. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 11:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why the Russian Wikipedia tagged this page? From what I can understand of the article, this article looks to be more developed than that one. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 05:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
As per my original message [4], Elfen Lied has now been delisted as a GA. The image issue was taken care of, some MoS fixes were done, and I myself fixed the issue with the manga chapter table. However, the majority of the other issues have been left unaddressed. The article has a vast amount of unreferenced statements, failing GA criteria 2. Specifically:
Additionally, of the references given, some are not refs at all. Refs 4 & 5 are unreferenced statements that needs references of their own. Ref 19 is a dead link. Ref 21 is a personal blog and fails WP:RS. The plot section is too long, while the manga section is too short. This fails criteria 3. The prose needs work and the article needs a copyediting (from a non-involved editor), failing criteria 1. After these issues are fully and properly addressed, I highly recommend a peer review and then renominating for GA. -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 17:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I already know that most of this article has to go, as it is unsourced. But I thought I'd set up a merge proposal so we could salvage what we can and get rid of the unnecessary article. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 10:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I would support the merge of Diclonius only if the Diclonius section was restored in the article. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 04:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I've done what I can. Per the deletion of Diclonius, I've restored the section into the plot.
Now all I need for keeping it GA and possibly nominating it for FA is to make the article more manga-centred. Since I haven't read the manga, I'll need help here. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 06:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Looked like the agreement was to merge the diclonius, which I think already happened. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 21:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
What do we need to do now? I know all these pages could use more references. I'm currently focusing on characters. If someone could do some more with the reception and trimming the plot, that would be good. We also need to balance the content of this page with the manga. I think we're making progress! Good job everyone! -- Kraftlos ( talk) 21:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Hello. Does anybody own the DVDs and know what ADV's official titles for the episodes are? I made the english episode titles correspond with tv.com's listing ( here) but I see somebody has reverted to the old titles. I think it would be most accurate to list the titles as they appear on the dvd, rathing than from some website's that may just be fansubber's translations of the japanese or german. - Phorque 05:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
At the conclusion of Elfen Lied, there are a number of unanswered aspects about the story:
Hi, Phorque here. Firstly: not all of these are unanswered. Make sure you've read the manga AND watched the anime before labling these as loose ends in the plot. There's also the chance you may have misunderstood. I myself have watched the anime, but only read up to chapter 19 of the manga. I don't even know if loose ends in the plot have a place in the article, at least, not as an entire section unto themselves.
Here are some things I do know:
I, SwordKirby537, have not read the complete manga but I have heard that from people who have read it a few answers to those questions. The manga continues quite aways past where the anime ends, thus expanding on the story quite a bit. NOTE: Please forgive me if my answers are off, since I have never read it myself and don't have anyway of proving these statements, other than that I have heard them multiple times from those who have completed the manga. If any of these answers are off, then please, do correct them.
How is nobody mentioning the ending? The symbolism of the broken clock that they keep showing throughout, starting up again, and the music box stopping. Also, the shadow at the doorway (Lucy?) AshTM 07:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
I can answer about diclonius one they are not a different species from humans they are humans just like us just slightly different two neither god nor aliens had nothing to do with them it was all nature. Kuramas little chosen by god quote is merely xenophobia acting not the facts. Lucy in the manga said to kakuzawa after she killed him that he was delusional and living in a self fabricated fantasy world that diclonius are not a different species they are humans only born with horns and a unique power like x mens mutants in a way most people due to xenophobia cannot accept them as human when they are human same with diclonius. That word diclonius was probably invented by kakuzawa in order to segregate them form there fellow man. The institutions and the cruel treatment was probably kakuzawas way of conditioning them as killing machines and so they have no hope of existing together with there fellow man.
We don't really need three images for this article. I think just a description is fine, so we should keep just one.
— Kieff | Talk 07:28, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)
The lyric to the opening theme song seems to be not original. [1] ← seems to indicate that the lyrics come from a different source. Also, the first part: "Os iusti meditabitur sapientiam, Et lingua eius loquetur indicium" seems to be Psalm 37:30 in Latin after some Google searching. Would be nice if someone could help identify where the lyric comes from (or maybe it's mentioned on the OST CD album credits). In an earlier edit, a reference to "Beatus Vir" was erased, but I'm not sure why. -- 69.214.227.51 09:36, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is it even legal to post the entire lyrics here? These songs are copyrighted and so are their lyrics. -- 129.97.84.62 20:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I moved this from my talk page, where Sir Louis made a comment about my removal of his comments.
-- Tarranon 07:05, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I changed "Nyuu" to "Nyu", and added more context as discussed here, I hope it's a good, objective, compromise. --Louis
I added some information to the section dealing with the opening song, but for some reason that was removed. Why is that? My information is accurate. Lilium is not released in a full-version, only a short 1 minute 30 second version is officially available. DarkJedi2 on the Rizon IRC network proved how incomplete it is by making several extended versions using parts of the song he obtained in various ways. His mixes are flawless, and prove how much of the song is actually missing from the version we all know. His last version (his 8th release) is 5 minutes and 38 seconds long, and is titled "Lilium ~Extended DarkJedi Edition - Final Mix~", which he describes as a tweaked version of his 7th mix. I believe this is important information. If people want to hear what the near-complete version sounds like, this is the only person who's worth talking to about this. He is often available in #elfenlied on Rizon, he is an op there. Please add this information back in. Thanks. -- (posted by anonymous IP user)
It's worth noting that the Elfen Lied OST does indeed include an extended version of Lilium, entitled Lilium ~saint version~. This one is sung by the GRIFFIN Chorus, an all-male ensemble. I'm unable to find a listing for the OST itself, but from what I can piece together from the official Japanese website, it seems to have shipped as a part of the Limited Edition volume 1 in Japan. ADV makes no mention of it on their series page, but several enthusiast groups, most notably Nipponsei, have offered up a digital version of the CD over various P2P networks. -- Halbyrd 09:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking that perhaps, given that we've already established a spoiler warning, we should discuss this series' one unfortunately damning loop-hole. I'm not very good at modifying these articles, so it'd probably be better for someone else to take over it however. Of course, if someone could explain this to me, I'd be delighted as well.
It seems to me, that in the series, Diclonius are supposed to become homicidal around age 3. To indulge, seems like a genetic defect as a result of radical mutation, that they become predisposed to psychopathy. Anyways, here's the point. If they have a natural drive to kill humans, but they need to infect humans to reproduce, then which is it? It seems if they're driven to kill humans constantly, they eliminate their breeding stock, but if they merely spread the virus, I could understand xenophobia being a motivator into containing them, but it certainly wouldn't lead to the "demise of the human race" any more than simply evolving would. The way they speak of it, Diclonius would simply kill everyone they could, but then how do they reproduce? But if they simply reproduce, why would they need to kill so much and be such a threat? As they mature, do they become selective about who they kill and who they infect? Is it on a whim? This seems to be such a large contradiction in the storyline, I'm surprised a bigger issue hasn't been made of it.
They make a big deal in the series both that Diclonius are natural murderers, and that they need to use people to spread, and the points cancel each other out. Should this be made a point of? Or am I simply making a geeky rambling? I apologize if I'm merely cluttering the discussion page with my confusion.
I've heard this series borrows heavily from Chobits. If someone familiar with both could add a section talking about this, i think it'd be interesting. -- Brian Kendig 21:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I was reading the article just now, and I noticed that Kouta (the guy who finds Nyu, right?) is described thusly:
Now, I didn't watch the series too carefully, but wasn't he being allowed to live there at the sufferance of Yuki's family as long as he took care of the place? -- Maru (talk) Contribs 16:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Is "diclonius" a proper noun or an adjective or what? Should it be capitalized or not? -- Maru (talk) Contribs 18:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
If they know that they can't control what they create, Why were they created in the first place? I mean they do have the to kill those scintist because the were abuse by them and treated like dogs. That's the one i don't like about this anime. Because of the lack of love and understand they kill. --Anon
I'm moving the spoiler section down. There are no spoilers in the introduction. (Nor should there ever be, in any article. ^_^) If someone thinks there's a spoiler in the intro, that information should be relocated. -- Starwed 07:02, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I only have one right now, but there might be others:
-The link to "Mayhem" in the characters section (talking about Nana being dismembered)leads to a disambiguation page (in which I couldn't find a link pertaining to elfen lied)
States that 'Close-Friend' was mixed up with 'Cousin', but during a flash back in the last DVD, Yuka clearly calls Kouta's Dad 'Uncle'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erufen ( talk • contribs)
I've uploaded a new picture for Professor Kazukawa I screencapped from episode 10 of the anime, shown here. Because it's a screencap instead of a scan, the quality is slightly less than what's already there, but I think the camera angle and overall mood of the image is closer to that used in the front-view dossier-like pictures for all the other characters. Anybody have feelings on this either way, would prefer to see this or what's already there?
In several parts of the opening credits, Lucy is shown with one of her hands forming a specific sign/symbol (whatever you want to call it). Does anyone know if there is accually any symbolism behind this? Or am i just seeing things? They do it a lot though so i assumed that it must mean something. The closest thing i can think of would be a gang hand-sign that symbolized the "West Side" in the united states, but its not quite the same i think, and im sure thats not what it represents in this case...Anyway just wondered if anyone had any ideas. -- Aaronsjet 19:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC) (this was me too, forgot to sign lol)
Your right. I knew I had seen that before. I look into it when I can. -- Psi edit 11:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i have noticed this as well, also in the last episode, where Kouta and Lucy hug, she also has the same symbol on her back, and im pretty sure i've seen it other various times throughout the anime! Erufen 13:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Humm, really? I've been looking into it some more lately since i made this post, and I was starting to think it was just something they invented for this series. It wouldnt make sense to make something like that up though with out explaining it...so it has to have roots somewhere. Perhaps it's related to something in old latin history, like during roman times or something. -- Aaronsjet 19:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
The hand symbol is also imitated by Tupac Shakur in his album "All Eyez on Me". It could be a reference to something... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Eyez_on_Me -- Puzk 14:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah yes, see thats a perfect example of the "west side" hand symbol. If you look close you can see that his thumb is tucked back inside the palm of his hand to form a "W" look. Lucy keeps her thumb outstretched with her other fingers, and her middle and ring fingers are not crossed over, so im guessing that they are most likely not related. I wont deny the are similar though heh. -- Aaronsjet 21:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
At first I thought the ending was a total mindfuck, but now I have figured it out, and who it was that was at the door... Lucy's horns were both shot off, they most likely had this happen so you wouldn't be able to immediatley guess that it was her at the door, and it's also probably symbolic. The last thing Lucy said to Bandoh was something like "This is the last time you'll ever see me." and she walks away from him (presumably after beating his ass again.) So we all know that Lucy/Nyuu has split personalities, I think it must be Nyuu at the door. Lucy dies, Nyuu lives, and she returns home. So she doesn't "die" per se but one of her persoanilites does, if you follow. The music box stops playing lilium to signify the death of Lucy, as she loved that song so much, and the old broken clock starts because Nyuu was always playing with it and interested in it. AshTM 21:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
If you're brave and don't mind spoilers, read the babelfish translation of the japanese article It'd probably be easier if you can just read japanese. ^^
Please note that i cannot read or understand Japanese. The following is a mixture of what i read at the Elfen Lied fan sites, several viweings of the last volumes of the manga, and my own wishful thinking :D. But i do belive it should be useful to fans of Lucy, like myself, should they wish to know how the series/manga ends. Serveral details have been ommited :D
Achtung spoilers:
{{spoilers}}
well going by the manga story line AshTM is correct. Lucy fights and defeats mariko, loses both her horns, but survives the fight. Also, when she gets back to maple inn, she reverts to her 'Nyuu' personaliy and stays that way for a while. Unfortunately, the institute sends fresh and even more sadistic ppl after Lucy. when maple inn is attacked, nyuu reverts to Lucy, with much bigger horns that appear suddenly, also she gets much longer and more powerful vectors than before <<long enough to take down a helicopter in the sky>>, but still gets one of her horns shot off and faints, ending up being captured. The President of the institute warns lucy that over using her vectors is harmful to her body and could end up destroying her. Still, Lucy manages to escape, meets up with kouta and promises him that she will never kill again, and as she leaves, she is attacked by kurama, but kouta throws himself between them and takes the bullet for Lucy. After seeing kouta get hurt, poor Lucy goes beserk and develops super long vectors <<several Kilometers long>> and smashes several buildings in the city, and still kurama gets rescued by nana. on the other han, Lucy contiues destroy the city whilst cradling kouta. unexpectedly, her left hand *falls off* as if her wrist suddenly rotted away. Lucy savs kouta by healing his bullet wound with her tisue, and meanwhile her body continues to rot/liquefy til shes reduced to a limbless torso. At this point they are attacked again by the people from the lab and they explain that Lucys condition is due to her over use of vectors which "destabilise" her body tissues. they try to take back Lucy, but she chooses freedom and kills off the lab people. By this time most of her body has rotted away and all thats left of Lucy is her head <<with half her face roted off>> and just a skeleton and a mass off purtified flesh below her neck. The other girls from the inn show up at this point and Lucy reverts briefly to Nyuu to bid them farewell. For some reason she chooses to attack them again, but suddely the images of Lucy and Nyuu appear before the gang, shielding them from Lucy. <<speculation: as if the personas of Lucy and Nyuu gained seperate conciousness and have come to terms weith their short and tragic life. More importantly, they forgive the brutal cruelty inflicted on them and wish to end it all>>. Lucy then picks up a gun and hands it to kouta and asks him to end her misery. The manga ends with a tearful kouta crying that "he had killed NYUU".
DAS ENDE
Epilogue: all the other charecters seem to survive. Mayu gets adopted by bandou, nana gets adopted by the bastard kurama, whom she still loves tho he performed brutal experiments on her, and yuka and kouta get married and have a daughter. every year during the summer fetival, Kouta visits the place where he first met Lucy, ie at the grave of Lucys dog. he continues to visit this sopt year after year, as if waiting for someone. Fifteen years after the ending of Elfen Lied, <<not sure here, counting the frames its like 11 years. but judging by the age of his daughter, more than 15 years>> kouta visits the same sopt with his daughter <<who looks just like Yuka>> and explins to her about his "very special" friend. His daughter surprisingly, knows about it and locates a bottle half buried in he grave << this is the same bottle that little Lucy buried about 20 years ago, with a mesage and the jade that kouta gave her as a kid>>
Kouta rushes to the bottle and reads the leter from the distant past... the child hood Lucy's message from twenty years ago reads "If you are reading this, you have fulfilled your promise to me". Kouta breaks into tears at this message of forgivenes from his childhood friend decades ago <<perhaps finally realising his true love for Lucy>>
Suddenly two girls appear<< their hair is in ribbons, just as nyuus hair was, as if to conceal horns>>, and koutas daughter introduces them as her friends. on seeing them, Kota inexplicably becomes joyous and the story ends with a smile :D
<<wild speculation: these two are the Reincarnations of Lucy and Nyuu. their age makes it probable that they wer born around the time of Lucys death. Also the fact that kouta is inexplicably happy at seeing them means he some how recognised Lucy and Nyuu in these two girls. At least I personally hope so my self, because after all she has been through, Lucy deserved a chance at happiness. Nyuu also got reicarnated <<something to do with Lucy/nyuus images which appeard just before Lucys death 15 year ago??>>, It appears they are twins who have had loving parents <<more wild speculation :D , Lragely cos lucy was abandoned at birth and this time she gets loving parents to compensate>>. Probably they have the good memories of their past life, the love they got from kouta, without the bitter memories of horrible child hood :end wild speculation>>
In the article I've read that Elfen Lied would be slightly misspelled German for Elf Song. However, if you would consider it might be Dutch instead of German, then there is no problem with the spelling, and the meaning is not altered.
Are we certain there were translation errors?
I removed that small notice. From looking at the Lied article. There doesnt seem to a translation error. -- Psi edit 21:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Just added a quick note to the anime section of the mainpage saying that EL will start on British TV on June 3rd on the Propeller Sky channel (specifically, 9:30pm) Sephjnr 19:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I have mentioned in the article a possible relation between the ending song text and Yuka's jealousy. However, this is just an idea of mine, so I wanted to mention it here so that I can be corrected (in case this is needed). I do not know Japanese but I have an edition with full Italian subtitles, so I've seen in the lyrics sentences like "say I'm the only girl for you". -- Blaisorblade 14:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The vast majority of anime review pages out there spell it "Nyuu" as far as I can see so I'm thinking of changing that. æt ərnal ðrAعon → 08:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Could we get something straight here? Some people are making claims that the show is "satire", ecchi, harem, or, as one put it, comedy. Face it, Okamoto has gone to some liberties with bodily exposure over the series, however there are virtually no sexual references. For those who think it's comedy, sure, there are small bits which are laughable, but I don't think slaughtering, themes of isolation and anger and the show questioning the value of humanity itself is that much of a comedy. Well, maybe, emo comedy. æt ərnal ðrAعon → 09:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
The manga did have alot of sexual references as well as a large amount of nudity, sex scenes and not just of Lucy/Nyuu, not the anime trough but the manga version is cleary ecchi harem/semi mature.. WillTheWitch —Preceding unsigned comment added by WillTheWitch ( talk • contribs) 21:12, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The article says Diclonii are the result of experimentation. Didn't they say in the anime that it was an evolutionary event, and that they are completely natural. 81.69.78.99 ( talk) 14:43, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks like Eternal Dragon posted something here about extending the plot section. While its not against the rules to post spoilers and such, it really doesn't add to the article to post the entire plot of the show. You shouldn't be able to use the article as a replacement for watching the show, but you should have a pretty good idea of what it's about. I think the article already does a good job of that. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 22:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The two articles on the opening and ending songs have little contents left once copyvio is removed, and don't really have any credible notability of their own. I suggest the relevant content be merged into the relevant section of this article (or into "Elfen Lied (anime)", should the split occur), so that the song articles can be safely disposed of as copyright violations. Bikasuishin ( talk) 23:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I propose that the information regarding the TV series be made into a new article. While the lead declares that Elfen Lied is a "manga series created by author Lynn Okamoto", the bulk of the information stems from the anime adaptation. There's no info on the manga's development but there's a long section on the anime's production. The bulk of the images are anime screencaps. The plot section summarizes what happens on the TV series and the "Style and themes" and "Reception" relate only to the anime.
I think splitting the article is the way to go. It's a heck of a lot easier that straightening the article to focus on the manga.-- Nohansen ( talk) 03:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Also a lot more information is in the anime then the manga. You could always put more information about the manga yourself. You could also change some pictures to their comic book style. There is a lot of stuff you can do without splitting the article. I see no sense in splitting the article. And I agree with the first person who opposed. You should see the "Русский" article. I know you may not be able to read it, but that is a pretty good Elfen Lied article I have to say. Maybe you could learn off of something like that. Cardinal Raven ( talk) 19:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven
It says diclonius are a different species yet the article on diclonius and many bits in the manga say otherwise infact the description of the manga says mutated homo sapien not something else can someone please fix that-- Vipa Human ( talk) 21:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Problem with that is issues with genetic compatibility and diclonius have been stated to compatible with normal humans and give birth to fertile offspring no infertile hybrids which is what supposed to happen with species of the same genus(kakuzawas line was a glitch in the evolution whos genes diluted mating with normal people, Lucy bloodline fixes this as stated in the manga.) With xmens mutants those issues also pertain too many things are againts them being a different species especially that fact. This is the same issue with diclonius-- Vipa Human ( talk) 22:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I've tagged the article for multiple issues. It needs some serious clean up to comply with the Anime and Manga MoS, the plot cut down, almost all the non-free images removed, and the manga table moved off to its own List of Elfen Lied chapters. There are also some wholly unreferenced sections, numerous unreferenced statements, and some non-neutral language and blatant OR/personal opinion. This is not acceptable in a GA level article. If the article is not brought back up the required GA criteria within two weeks, it will be delisted. Normally, it would qualify for an immediate delisting, but I see some project folks have worked on this, so I'm going to hope that's a sign that clean up is already underway? -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 17:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
One huge additional issue is the lack of balance. I realize information on the manga is more difficult to come by, however the article is horribly unbalanced towards the anime. The plot and character sections need to be sure it is for the manga, not the anime. The style/themes needs paring down on the anime side, and expanded, if possible, on the anime side. It might also be worth considering to move that to the anime list, along with the anime production section, and make the episode page into something closer to what we see with a season page versus the usual list only anime episode lists. -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 05:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
The current Wikimedia foundation licensing policy still allows for the non-free exemptions on the English wikipedia under the fair-use rational.
Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) A project-specific policy, in accordance with United States law and the law of countries where the project content is predominantly accessed (if any), that recognizes the limitations of copyright law (including case law) as applicable to the project, and permits the upload of copyrighted materials that can be legally used in the context of the project, regardless of their licensing status. Examples include: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content and http://pl.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Dozwolony_u%C5%BCytek.
I see the phrase "project specific" and you mentioned that this project does things differently, but i haven't come across any specific image policy specific to manga and anime, so I'm going to have to defer to the WP criteria. Fair use is acceptable under the following conditions:
Placing an image of Lucy breaking out of the base in the plot section conveys the idea of the first 15 mins of the anime (and I assume the manga) in a way that cannot be conveyed merely through words. It also meets all of the above criteria. No one is ignoring WP:NONFREE, we're all very familiar with it. Let's avoid this edit war and DISCUSS this. I think æt should have some say since he's been working on page for quite a while. Also keep in mind that this was once a featured article and hasn't really changed that much since then. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 19:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I've been working for three months to get this article to FA status, and believe that this recent wave of edits is anything but beneficial to achieving such. According to WP:MOS-AM:
#Articles should be self-contained, only referring to subpages for additional information or details if the main article or a section becomes too long. Follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Summary style when creating subarticles.
In regards to this:
As far as I'm concerned, Collectonian is cutting the quality of this article in her own best interest. Several of the sections need to remain in order for it to be upgraded to FA or even stay a GA, and removal of information is contrary to this objective. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 03:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
(Unindent) (Thinks to self: How is it that I became the middle man?) Okay, this is what I suggest should be done. Condense the plot, make it manga-centric, give an overview of the beginning and major plot points and an ending if one is available, as in one of us (or some other editor) can provide one (I'm looking at you, Collectonian, on this issue). Expand differences between media. Characters looks okay, but the image at List of Elfen Lied characters can be included. The two images in "Style and themes" I believe are necessary, since they help illustrate the point about the nudity and violence in the series (pic one), and the direct relation to "The Kiss" (pic two). Collectonian herself has argued about the inclusion of such images that help to illustrate prose at List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters, and I do not believe any of the current images used in the article are mere decoration, so shouldn't be removed. The individual character pics don't belong there (as I said, single image is better) and of the two anime images formally used in the article, I think this image might be able to be salvaged, if it can be used to illustrate Lucy's dark side. The image of Kouta and Lucy as kids I think is superfluous, and what with the plot eventually reduced, one image for this section will be enough. Everything else looks to be in-line, at least for a GA. For FA concerns, copyedit the prose, cite everything, expand production, and perhaps condense the Characters section into a smaller single paragraph (I myself had to do this on the recently GA-promoted Air (visual novel)). The infobox image can be the last thing debated, if need be (as it's the least of the article's problems). And cite anything you can for it to be a GA standard as well.-- 十 八 08:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
In short, the images that Collectonian removed are excessive and in violation of WP:NFCC, but per Juhachi, some of them may be utilized to reflect part of the plot. The Diclonius section is really excessive and needs to go, as it violates WP:WAF and simply needs to be summarized better. That and the article should be merged or deleted. And why the hell is there edit warring over the infobox? Sephiroth BCR ( Converse) 09:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
To be brief, if anyone reverts someone again I'm going to lock the page until you guys can solve this. That means; I don't care if you disagree with someone's edit, bring it up here, don't go reverting. Please don't make me lock it; we're all mature here, surely we can handle some civilized discussion? Master of Puppets Call me MoP! :) 05:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
How about we get the article in line with MoS and the relevant WikiPolcies and worry about the images after the content is in place. I'm tired of debating it. I still disagree about with their removal, but it will be easier make deicisions about images after the article is in better shape. For now, I gonna go get a scanlsation of the manga. I think we can all agree that the plot section needs to shrink and that there needs to be less of a focus on the anime. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 08:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed that many articles on video games, FAs included, actually quote from cutscenes and dialogue in the game and use them as inline citations. Is this passable to make GA/FA standard in this article? It did for several video game FAs. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 11:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why the Russian Wikipedia tagged this page? From what I can understand of the article, this article looks to be more developed than that one. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 05:41, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
As per my original message [4], Elfen Lied has now been delisted as a GA. The image issue was taken care of, some MoS fixes were done, and I myself fixed the issue with the manga chapter table. However, the majority of the other issues have been left unaddressed. The article has a vast amount of unreferenced statements, failing GA criteria 2. Specifically:
Additionally, of the references given, some are not refs at all. Refs 4 & 5 are unreferenced statements that needs references of their own. Ref 19 is a dead link. Ref 21 is a personal blog and fails WP:RS. The plot section is too long, while the manga section is too short. This fails criteria 3. The prose needs work and the article needs a copyediting (from a non-involved editor), failing criteria 1. After these issues are fully and properly addressed, I highly recommend a peer review and then renominating for GA. -- AnmaFinotera ( talk · contribs) 17:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I already know that most of this article has to go, as it is unsourced. But I thought I'd set up a merge proposal so we could salvage what we can and get rid of the unnecessary article. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 10:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I would support the merge of Diclonius only if the Diclonius section was restored in the article. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 04:56, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I've done what I can. Per the deletion of Diclonius, I've restored the section into the plot.
Now all I need for keeping it GA and possibly nominating it for FA is to make the article more manga-centred. Since I haven't read the manga, I'll need help here. æt ə rnal ðrAعon 06:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Looked like the agreement was to merge the diclonius, which I think already happened. -- Kraftlos ( talk) 21:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
What do we need to do now? I know all these pages could use more references. I'm currently focusing on characters. If someone could do some more with the reception and trimming the plot, that would be good. We also need to balance the content of this page with the manga. I think we're making progress! Good job everyone! -- Kraftlos ( talk) 21:54, 29 June 2008 (UTC)