This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Wait a minute: Joan, daughter of John Lackland, married Alexander II, King of Scots. How could Ellen/Helen be her legitimate daughter by Llewelyn? --
Michael K. Smith15:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Michael... I believe the Joan referred to is in fact John's illegitimate daughter. She is chronicled as having married Llewelyn The Great. I don't know if it would be of interest to you, but there are 2 very compelling works of fiction on these two characters worth reading, "Here by Dragons" by Sharon Kay Penman, which tells of Joan and Llewelyn, and "Child of the Phoenix" by Barbara Erskine, which portrays an extremely startling version of Ellen (Eleyne) which proposes that the English record her as having died in 1253 but actually she went on to live into her eighties! Rgds Dee
The supposed other Elen ferch Llywelyn
The article was moved a couple of years ago, without consultation, based on the idea that Elen had a younger sister of the same name who married the Earl of Fife. Whilst it's certainly possible that Llywelyn had two daughters of the same name, I can find no reputable source for this claim. Even if there was another Elen, there is no article for her, thus no need for disambiguation, so I've moved the article back to its original title.
Deb (
talk)
17:56, 9 May 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Wait a minute: Joan, daughter of John Lackland, married Alexander II, King of Scots. How could Ellen/Helen be her legitimate daughter by Llewelyn? --
Michael K. Smith15:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Michael... I believe the Joan referred to is in fact John's illegitimate daughter. She is chronicled as having married Llewelyn The Great. I don't know if it would be of interest to you, but there are 2 very compelling works of fiction on these two characters worth reading, "Here by Dragons" by Sharon Kay Penman, which tells of Joan and Llewelyn, and "Child of the Phoenix" by Barbara Erskine, which portrays an extremely startling version of Ellen (Eleyne) which proposes that the English record her as having died in 1253 but actually she went on to live into her eighties! Rgds Dee
The supposed other Elen ferch Llywelyn
The article was moved a couple of years ago, without consultation, based on the idea that Elen had a younger sister of the same name who married the Earl of Fife. Whilst it's certainly possible that Llywelyn had two daughters of the same name, I can find no reputable source for this claim. Even if there was another Elen, there is no article for her, thus no need for disambiguation, so I've moved the article back to its original title.
Deb (
talk)
17:56, 9 May 2022 (UTC)reply