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Reviewer: Scope creep ( talk · contribs) 20:42, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
I have read the article 8 times now, the spelling is good, layout is good and coverage of content, having read up on it, seems fairly comprehensive at the moment. There is couple of things I have noticed that are not linked, from my own knowledge of the subject, but that can be done covered in appropriate section.
nineteenth centuryin the opening sentence should be linked.
Electrical telegraphy is telegraphy over conducting wires- Duplicate link to telegraphy, an explanation of what is it would be more accurate and satisfying.
thebefore radiotelegraphy.
Francis RonaldsI notice on some names that you introduce them, e.g. the English scientist Francis Ronalds and some others aren't. I would suggest a small introduction for each person.
Francis Ronalds first demonstrated a working telegraph over a substantial distance in 1816, but was unable to put it into useIs there no information on how long a distance? I would take out but was unable to put it into use unless you can provide an explanation.
William Fothergill Cooke, starting in 1836, developed the first commercial telegraph put into operation with the scientific assistance of Charles Wheatstone, the battery invented by John Frederic Daniell, and the relay invented by Edward DavyNo linking txt together, seems to be dropped on the page, its a 3 or 4 clause sentence, I can see why but there no explanation of why a battery is needed.
In 1846 the Electric Telegraph Company (the Electric), the world's first telegraph company, was formed by Cooke and financier John Lewis Ricardo.
Electric Telegraph CompanyShould that not be quotes as its a name?
Many competing companies arose; chief amongst them was the Magnetic Telegraph Company (the Magnetic) formed in 1850I would remove chief its domain is people, not orgs. Change to something the most prominent or the largest
The Electric and Magnetic companies soon formed a cartel to control the marketWhen? Within a year, two years, two months, two weeks?
Submarine telegraph cablesYou have started a new paragraph unrelated to the previous clause. It needs an introduction e.g. To enable transatlantic communications submarine telegraph cables were laid or To enable intercontinental signals/communication submarine telegraph cables were laid
Scottish military surgeon William MontgomerieThis is the intro bit I was talking about above. You have introduced the person here.
synthetic plasticslink this, And
Gutta-percha, And
was idealWas ideal for what?
...was ideal for making underwater cables.... Spinning Spark 14:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Pender. PenderI would perhaps link these two sentences.
entrepreneurI would suggest a change to businessman. I don't know if that would be in use.
inland??
wereThe second one, not needed.
eatreduce is better.
The telegraph was never profitable under nationalisation because of government policies. Prices were held low to make it affordable to as many people as possible and the telegraph was extended to every post office issuing money orders, whether or not that office generated enough telegraph business to be profitable
resourceThat is modern statement. important for military communications.. I don't know.
Post Office Telecommunications was separated from the Post Office as British Telecom in 1981 to enable it to be privatised (which occurred in 1984)Reorder.
This text on these sections have a much better flow.
His sourceThe source of power.
static electricityLink it. Its two clicks to get to it.
batteries of electrochemical cellsbatteries, perhaps arrays or shelves
surgeon Edward DavyI don't think he is a surgeon.
electromagnetNot linked, although linked below
Davy began experimenting in telegraphy in 1835, demonstrated his telegraph system in Regent's Park in 1837 over a mile of copper wire,[7] and held an exhibition in London, but after his marriage broke down he abandoned telegraphy and emigrated to Australia
The driving force inThe person who was the driving force
Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnetsWhy? What is detent? Ive never heard of it.
The person who was the driving force in establishing the telegraph as a business in the United Kingdom was William Fothergill Cooke. He was initially inspired to build a telegraph after seeing a demonstration of a needle telegraph by Georg Wilhelm Muncke in March 1836. He built a prototype shortly afterwards, but did not pursue this design.[9] Instead, he looked for mechanical solutions because he believed that the needle telegraph would require multiple wires, each driving a separate needle.[10] Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnetsthen it is The first mechanical apparatus was built in 1836 If it was cooke that built the first mechanical apparatus, then the previous sentence should something like: Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnets but was unsuccessful. It essentially comes to a halt and then moves onto another subject, which is the first mechanical apparatus.
He made a clockwork mechanical system, unsuccessfully pitched it to the railways, then abandoned it in favour of needles after scientific advice. The basic facts are quite clear, you don't need to look in the sources. No doubt my description needs some work, but it is all in sources. I am still struggling a bit to understand the problem. The bit that follows the initial mechanical system is the needle telegraph system. Spinning Spark 09:09, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
References
Cooke had initially been inspired to build a telegraph after seeing a demonstration of a needle telegraphInspired. Ok sentence but why is mentioned now when it is already stated built a device and spoke to people.
five needlesWas that not because the Baudot was 5 characters groups?
Both applications were for signalling with rope-hauled trains and both railways rejected electrical telegraph signalling in favour of steam-driven whistlesShould it not be but
The first success came in 1838 when a five-needle telegraph was installed by the Great Western Railway from Paddington station to West Draytonand used on the stations between Paddington and West Drayton
The cables were originally laid in underground conduitin an
The profession of telegraph operator had been created for the first timePossibly The new profession of telegraph operator known as a Telegraphist was created for the first time.
This extension was done at Cooke's own expense, the railway company was unwilling to finance a system it still considered experimentalThis extension was done at Cooke's own expense as the railway company was unwilling to finance a system it still considered experimental
A flat rate of one shilling was charged regardless of message length, unlike later pricing schemes, but many people paid this just to see the strange equipmentI would unlike later pricing schemes It is very early days and they wouldn't have known their pricing or what the real price should be for profitability, so no real comparison could be made with future price plans.
that isIt is seemingly working as i.e. and it shouldn't as its not asking for another explanation. To make it work as that is and connect it to he proceeding clause take out the comma.
Between 1846 and 1868Does it need a comma?
Electric Telegraph Company (ETC)In the lede you were calling it the the Electric. Should there be a common nomenclature?
It was formed without Wheatstone. Cooke and Wheatstone had had a serious falling out over who should take credit for the inventionLink them together, something like It was formed without Wheatstone as he and Cooke had had a serious falling out over who should take credit for the invention.
was reached with them both taking some creditwas reached with both of them taking some credit It a much of a muchness. Eithers good.
The ETC bought out Wheatstone's patent interest in exchange for royalties.[32] They also acquired Davy's relay patent.[33]This is logically one sentence.
The wayleaves gave the ETC exclusive useIt is muddled. Wayleaves is not an entity, it is a byelaw. I don't think it can be spoken about in the first person. I can't make sense of it.
Supply of news to newspapers and stock exchange information to the financial sector were profitabletoo as its a quantity?
A major user from the beginning was the insurer Lloyd's of London, and they had telegraph instruments installed directly in their London offices in 1852as Don't know.
because prices were highdue to high prices
scope_creep Talk 17:36, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The ETC remained by far the largest telegraph company until nationalisationIs that in Britain or Europe?
This company was merged back with the ETC in 1854merged back into the ETC in 1854
Other subsidiaries created whichSubsidiary is not mentioned in previous sentenced. Something Other subsidiary companies that were created laid
initiallyto initially possibly.
The first attempt at this failed, as didComma is not needed. It is a conjunction describing several failures, not a failure and something else.
The Magnetic finally succeeded in 1853, allowing Ireland telegraphic connection for the first time to Britain and to mainland EuropeSlightly muddled. Possibly In 1853 the Magnetic finally succeeded in connecting Ireland to Britain and mainland Europe with a telegraphic connection.
The Magnetic was the largest competitor to the ETC, the two of them forming a virtual duopolyThe Magnetic was the largest competitor to the ETC with the two of them forming a virtual duopoly
That was the British Electric Telegraph Company (BETC, later to change its name to the British Telegraph Company to avoid confusion with the ETC[51]) founded in 1849I would split this as the, founded in 1849 is hanging off the end of the sentence. It is confusing on several reads. Something like That was the British Electric Telegraph Company (BETC) that was founded in 1849. It had to later change its name to the British Telegraph Company to avoid confusion with the ETC[51]..
They wrongly believed that Parliament would force the railway companies to allow them to have linesDoesn't make sense at the end. access to lines The wayleave context is complex as its a right to access.
The area of the District was to be within four miles ofWhy was? The area of the District only encompassed an area less than four miles from Charing Cross, with a plan to later expand it to twenty miles.
Rooftop telegraphsIs that not roof top cabling?
The cheap prices of the District stimulated a much more casual use of the telegraph. In 1862 the company transmitted a quarter of a million messages.These should be joined.
UKTCYou have created the acronym without telling the reader.
The UKTC, founded by Thomas AllanThe UKTC that was founded
Act in 1862Is it not possible to find the act. They are all online now or to give it a name?
Thats ok scope_creep Talk 15:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The District, with low prices and a troublesome rooftop system to maintain showed a loss every year of its existence except 1865Should be The District, with low prices and a troublesome rooftop system to maintain suffered a loss every year of its existence except 1865
The UKTC had come late to the partyMay be better as as a late competitor
agreeing a common price structure, thus destroying their original business modelagreeing a common price structure that eventually destroyed their original business model
In 1851 ETC chargedIn 1851 the ETC
1sYou refer to
one shilling rateabove. Should that not convert all the writing as opposed to numerics, e.g. as 1 shilling instead of 1s.
1/6dMight be worth changing it to one and a half shillings.
1/6dIs there a conversion for this. It is one and a half shillings.
In places where the office was in line of sightRemove in
To connect the telegraph to anywhere outside of Britain submarine telegraph cables were neededTo connect the telegraph to anywhere outside of Britain, submarine telegraph cables were needed
The solution came with gutta-percha, a natural latex from certain trees in the Far EastThe ideal material came with the discovery of a natural latex from the gutta-percha (Palaquium) tree in the Far East
Gutta-percha sets harder than rubber when exposed to the air, but will become plastic, and hence mouldable, in hot water. On cooling, gutta-percha hardens againGutta-percha sets harder than rubber when exposed to the air but when soaked in hot water it become plastic and mouldable. On cooling it hardens again.
The material was brought to attention after William Montgomerie, the head of the medical department in Singapore, sent samples to the Royal Society in 1843Reverse it as The material was bought to the attention of the Royal Society in 1843, when William Montgomerie, the head of the medical department in Singapore sent samples of Gutta-percha to them.
In the damp conditions of the tropics rubber deteriorated raidlyIs this needed? Seemed to have went to the tropics?
In 1844–5 he tested, probably short lengths, of cable in Swansea BayIn 1844-1845 Wheatstone tested short lengths of cable in Swansea Bay. Was it short lengths? link Swansea Bay.
The rival India Rubber, Gutta Percha and Telegraph Works Company was founded in 1864 as an offshoot of S. W. Silver and Co. of [Silvertown]]There seems to be new context. Their main competitor was the India Rubber, Gutta Percha and Telegraph Works Company that was founded in Silvertown, London in 1864 as an offshoot of the clothiers and outfitters S. W. Silver and Co..
These were not very successful, they were easily damaged and some attempts to lay cables failed because they would not sinkShould be something in context like, Using only the insulation was not successful as they were easily damaged and some attempts to lay cables failed due to them not sinking
The construction found to work well was to twist the cable cores together, bind with tarred hemp, wind tarred cord around the whole group of cores, and then protect the assembled cores with iron wires twisted around themThe method of construction that was found to work well...
Exports were a large part of the business, well over £2 million in 1873, 1% of total British manufactured exportsCould be Exports were a large part of the business totalling well over £2 million in 1873 and 1% of total British manufactured exports.
The first ocean cable anywhere in the worldRemove the anywhere. Anywhere is the world
After several failed attempts, the Brett's company, the Submarine Telegraph Company (STC), succeeded in connecting to France in 1851After several failed attempts, the Brett's company known as the Submarine Telegraph Company (STC) finally succeeded in connecting to France in 1851
From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all their submarine cables were to be used only with the landlines of the Magneticwere only to be connected.
Newall was prone to fall out with his customers and was often involved in litigation. The company slowly moved away from the telegraph cable businessShould be joined.
UKTC laid a cable...extended it on to Russia.
...monetary guaranteesproviding
the Red Sea to India cable in 1859 laid by the Red Sea & India CompanyIt is worth mentioning why it was failure. Is that the Indian Mutiny?
was achieved} was finally achieved?
scope_creep Talk 21:47, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Indian governmentlink? Minor
shorter distance in oceanmuddled.
achieved in 1866achieved by 1866 indicating work was done in the interim.
India that went most of the distancethat covered most of the distance
the political and other risks of an overland routethe political and other risks associated with an overland route.
Falmouth was originally intended as the landing site in England, but in the event, the tiny village of Porthcurno became the largest submarine cable station in the world after numerous other cables were landed theremuddled.
Eastern and Associated Cable CompanyPossible link or mention of Cable & Wireless plc that it eventually became
best compete worldwideRemove best.
carried multiple telephone channels by frequency division multiplexingby using the technique of frequency division multiplexing
This solution is not open to submarine cables and the very long distances maximise the problemSeem to be unlinked concept. Muddled possibly. Seems to be first person.
..with heat flow after the fiasco with first the transatlantic cablefiasco is introduced. with first??? Can't make sense of it.
transmission lines which showedwhich described.
but he was a maverick outsideras he was a
added loading coils to a telephone line for the first time in 1900Possibly more explanation? Is that inductors that is spoken about.
early onNo date or decade perhaps
when it started upbegan operating
New recruits were unpaid until they completed training (typically six weeks) at the end of which they were expected to achieve a minimum transmission speed (10 wpm at the Magnetic[136] and 8 wpm at the ETC)I think this is too long. recruits were unpaid until they completed training that typically lasted six weeks. At the end of the training the recruits were expected to achieve a minimum transmission speed, defined as 10 wpm at the Magnetic[136] and 8 wpm at the ETC.
3d a dayNobody know what it is and doesn't compare on the same scale. On the first scale your a week. On this sentence per day. And you have also changed from shillings to d's meaning pennies. Working seven days a week, it would 1.75 shillings per week.
Holding down pay and the fact that women were not organised into unions were the primary reasons the companies preferred to employ themPossibly The fact that women were not organised into unions combined with their smaller pay [requirements] were the primary reasons the companies preferred to employ them
The ability of the telegraph was first brought to the attention of a wider public on 6 August 1844 when the birth of Alfred Ernest Albert to Queen Victoria was reported in The Times only 40 minutes after it was announced.The ability of the telegraph to deliver news to a wide audience was first brought to the attention of the public on 6 August 1844 when the birth of Alfred Ernest Albert to Queen Victoria was reported in The Times only 40 minutes after it was announced
This was an unprecedented ability in international communicationsThis ability was unprecedented...
Also in 1851In the same year. Minor
competition undercompetition by the..
later price control under nationalisationlater price controls after nationalisation' nationalisation should be linked about somewhere. Multiple price controls.
intensive usage of lines and the economic case for building new linesand provide the economic
This could only come about, according to AllanAccording to Allan this could only happen if
This could only come about, according to Allan, if the Post Office ran the network as a unified whole, comparing his proposal to the effect of the introduction of the Penny Post.Big sentence
A more surprising, and more influential, advocate was John Ricardo, free trade campaigning Member of Parliament, railway entrepreneur, banker, and cofounder of the ETCBit of a comma overkill. A surprising and influential advocate was the Member of Parliament John Ricardo who co-founded the ETC. Ricardo was a free trade campaigner as well as a railway entrepreneur and banker. I know you should avoid two links together, but some articles need to link to it.
government tooltool? utility maybe.
19:05, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Frank Ives Scudamorethe post office reformer Frank Ives Scudamore
much parliamentary timesignificant parliamentary time
had the wayleave.had access to the wayleaves tense changes mid sentence
Spinning Spark 11:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
The resulting opposition from the telegraph companies had been expectedThe resulting opposition from the telegraph companies had been expected by the government
In June, the companies started to negotiateIn June, the companies started to negotiate with the government
The solution arrived at, in a great hurry and afterwards admitted to be not ideal, was to purchase Reuter's cables and lease them back to the STC, together with other continental cables acquired by the Post Office.A bit muddled. In a great hurry the government arrived at a what they considered an imperfect solution and that was purchase Reuter's cables and lease them back to the STC, together with other continental cables acquired by the Post Office
Coolio. scope_creep Talk 13:47, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
ETC buildingExpand the ETC here. Minor. I think getting rid of one would benefit the article.
On the other hand, the Post Office overall remained profitable throughoutMuddled. However, the Post Fffice remained profitable throughout this period
6d rateNeed rationalised.
at Manchesterin Manchester
Their pay was still less than the pay in cable and maintenance companies; moreTheir pay was still less than the pay in cable and maintenance companies resulting in more
In 1868 Charles Monk gotIn 1868 Charles Monk introduced ... that became law. In the next sentence I see. In 1868 Charles Monk introduced a private member's bill in parliament that would extend the vote to Post Office workers and other civil servants. Link to voting.
Is this not in the wrong location?
very minor playervery minor competitor
William Preece, Post Office Chief Electrician (chief engineer)Does it need it or it provided by the references?
There then followed the founding of a string of private telephone companies; the Telephone Company had the rights to Alexander Graham Bell's patent and the Edison Telephone Company had the rival patents of Thomas Edison, the two later merging as the United Telephone Company (UTC)Split this giant sentence. You could start with There then followed the founding of a string of private telephone companies.
serious damage could be done to the telegraph businessserious damage to the telegraph business would have occurred Taken out present tense and reordered.
monopoly of telephoneson?
the blind Henry FawcettI would take out blind, particularly when he a polymath.
Lancashire & CheshireNo mentioned of the Lancashire & Cheshire anywhere.
Prior to World War I, the telegraph rates charged to news services was much discussedBy who?
60/80could this be 60 to 80
3d
Some of the London pressSome London newspaper proprietors
Harold Harmsworth (Lord Rothermere)After you become a peer, you start using the name and your old name is no longer used. He was created a baronet in 1910 and from that point on he was referred to Lord Rothermere and it is reflected in his own article.
1/3d
3dthreepence which can be linked to Threepence (British coin)
Fine. scope_creep Talk 23:47, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
got telegraph connectionswere connected to the telegraph
call-points??
Because traffic was declining in the 1920s, it was not worthwhile to automate many less busy linesinto Traffic was declining in the 1920's because it was not worthwhile to automate many less busy lines. That puts the conjunction where it should be.
Hi @ Spinningspark: There are three entries left and it is completed for prose. scope_creep Talk 15:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all their submarine cables were to be used only with the landlines of the MagneticIs it possible to put something like : From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all messages sent on all their submarine cables had to be retransmitted onto the landlines of the Magnetic It makes it much longer and gives the reader an idea of what happening without a three sentence explanation. scope_creep Talk 18:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
That seems to be section finished. I couldn't identify any particular caveats. Hi @ Spinningspark: have I made any mistakes in this section. I think it passes. scope_creep Talk 19:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
I have done a frequency analysis on the references, I will post it in the next couple of days. They are not standard. scope_creep Talk 23:25, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Very good sources. All publishers checked. Close this. scope_creep Talk 16:50, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
I think in term broadness of sources, it is successful. I think you have very wide coverage and its fine. scope_creep Talk 22:00, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Spinningspark: I have reviewed the images. scope_creep Talk 13:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Spinningspark:. Now that images are done, I notice there is no chart or diagram in the article, e.g. detailing growth rate of each company, or details the growth in miles of cable put in. I several charts that may have been useful, but they've lost. I found this, e.g; [3] scope_creep Talk 15:19, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I notice that a lot of your comments are requesting additional information to be inserted in the lead. The lead is already quite lengthy, definitely at the upper limit of what a lead should be. In nearly every case the details requested are fully explained in the body of the article. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the article. It is not necessary to include many of these details. Largely, these comments are not issues that are GA requirements. Now, in this case, I don't have a problem with you addressing issues that are not strictly GA requirements since I intend to take this article on to FA. But because of the length issue, I want to resist making too many additions to the lead unless they are either matters of clarity (criterion 1a) or important content is missing (criterion 1b). I'll wait for a response from you before addressing those points individually. Spinning Spark 13:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Can we have a general discussion of what to do about this issue here? I think it would be best to establish a general principle first and then apply it to the individual items. Spinning Spark 14:42, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
References
x
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Electric Telegraph Company
Electric and International Telegraph Company |
ETC → the Electric |
English and Irish Magnetic Telegraph Company
British and Irish Magnetic Telegraph Company |
the Magnetic |
British Electric Telegraph Company
British Telegraph Company |
BETC → ? |
London District Telegraph Company | the District |
United Kingdom Telegraph Company | UKTC → ? |
Universal Private Telegraph Company | UPTC → the Universal |
Submarine Telegraph Company | STC → ? |
There are still a few unresolved question marks. Spinning Spark 15:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Ian Rose has come in and gave a couple of suggestions, so I have reopened this. I think it is worth a thought Spinningspark. scope_creep Talk 15:05, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Scope creep ( talk · contribs) 20:42, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
I have read the article 8 times now, the spelling is good, layout is good and coverage of content, having read up on it, seems fairly comprehensive at the moment. There is couple of things I have noticed that are not linked, from my own knowledge of the subject, but that can be done covered in appropriate section.
nineteenth centuryin the opening sentence should be linked.
Electrical telegraphy is telegraphy over conducting wires- Duplicate link to telegraphy, an explanation of what is it would be more accurate and satisfying.
thebefore radiotelegraphy.
Francis RonaldsI notice on some names that you introduce them, e.g. the English scientist Francis Ronalds and some others aren't. I would suggest a small introduction for each person.
Francis Ronalds first demonstrated a working telegraph over a substantial distance in 1816, but was unable to put it into useIs there no information on how long a distance? I would take out but was unable to put it into use unless you can provide an explanation.
William Fothergill Cooke, starting in 1836, developed the first commercial telegraph put into operation with the scientific assistance of Charles Wheatstone, the battery invented by John Frederic Daniell, and the relay invented by Edward DavyNo linking txt together, seems to be dropped on the page, its a 3 or 4 clause sentence, I can see why but there no explanation of why a battery is needed.
In 1846 the Electric Telegraph Company (the Electric), the world's first telegraph company, was formed by Cooke and financier John Lewis Ricardo.
Electric Telegraph CompanyShould that not be quotes as its a name?
Many competing companies arose; chief amongst them was the Magnetic Telegraph Company (the Magnetic) formed in 1850I would remove chief its domain is people, not orgs. Change to something the most prominent or the largest
The Electric and Magnetic companies soon formed a cartel to control the marketWhen? Within a year, two years, two months, two weeks?
Submarine telegraph cablesYou have started a new paragraph unrelated to the previous clause. It needs an introduction e.g. To enable transatlantic communications submarine telegraph cables were laid or To enable intercontinental signals/communication submarine telegraph cables were laid
Scottish military surgeon William MontgomerieThis is the intro bit I was talking about above. You have introduced the person here.
synthetic plasticslink this, And
Gutta-percha, And
was idealWas ideal for what?
...was ideal for making underwater cables.... Spinning Spark 14:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Pender. PenderI would perhaps link these two sentences.
entrepreneurI would suggest a change to businessman. I don't know if that would be in use.
inland??
wereThe second one, not needed.
eatreduce is better.
The telegraph was never profitable under nationalisation because of government policies. Prices were held low to make it affordable to as many people as possible and the telegraph was extended to every post office issuing money orders, whether or not that office generated enough telegraph business to be profitable
resourceThat is modern statement. important for military communications.. I don't know.
Post Office Telecommunications was separated from the Post Office as British Telecom in 1981 to enable it to be privatised (which occurred in 1984)Reorder.
This text on these sections have a much better flow.
His sourceThe source of power.
static electricityLink it. Its two clicks to get to it.
batteries of electrochemical cellsbatteries, perhaps arrays or shelves
surgeon Edward DavyI don't think he is a surgeon.
electromagnetNot linked, although linked below
Davy began experimenting in telegraphy in 1835, demonstrated his telegraph system in Regent's Park in 1837 over a mile of copper wire,[7] and held an exhibition in London, but after his marriage broke down he abandoned telegraphy and emigrated to Australia
The driving force inThe person who was the driving force
Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnetsWhy? What is detent? Ive never heard of it.
The person who was the driving force in establishing the telegraph as a business in the United Kingdom was William Fothergill Cooke. He was initially inspired to build a telegraph after seeing a demonstration of a needle telegraph by Georg Wilhelm Muncke in March 1836. He built a prototype shortly afterwards, but did not pursue this design.[9] Instead, he looked for mechanical solutions because he believed that the needle telegraph would require multiple wires, each driving a separate needle.[10] Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnetsthen it is The first mechanical apparatus was built in 1836 If it was cooke that built the first mechanical apparatus, then the previous sentence should something like: Cooke initially made a telegraph with a clockwork detent mechanism operating electromagnets but was unsuccessful. It essentially comes to a halt and then moves onto another subject, which is the first mechanical apparatus.
He made a clockwork mechanical system, unsuccessfully pitched it to the railways, then abandoned it in favour of needles after scientific advice. The basic facts are quite clear, you don't need to look in the sources. No doubt my description needs some work, but it is all in sources. I am still struggling a bit to understand the problem. The bit that follows the initial mechanical system is the needle telegraph system. Spinning Spark 09:09, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
References
Cooke had initially been inspired to build a telegraph after seeing a demonstration of a needle telegraphInspired. Ok sentence but why is mentioned now when it is already stated built a device and spoke to people.
five needlesWas that not because the Baudot was 5 characters groups?
Both applications were for signalling with rope-hauled trains and both railways rejected electrical telegraph signalling in favour of steam-driven whistlesShould it not be but
The first success came in 1838 when a five-needle telegraph was installed by the Great Western Railway from Paddington station to West Draytonand used on the stations between Paddington and West Drayton
The cables were originally laid in underground conduitin an
The profession of telegraph operator had been created for the first timePossibly The new profession of telegraph operator known as a Telegraphist was created for the first time.
This extension was done at Cooke's own expense, the railway company was unwilling to finance a system it still considered experimentalThis extension was done at Cooke's own expense as the railway company was unwilling to finance a system it still considered experimental
A flat rate of one shilling was charged regardless of message length, unlike later pricing schemes, but many people paid this just to see the strange equipmentI would unlike later pricing schemes It is very early days and they wouldn't have known their pricing or what the real price should be for profitability, so no real comparison could be made with future price plans.
that isIt is seemingly working as i.e. and it shouldn't as its not asking for another explanation. To make it work as that is and connect it to he proceeding clause take out the comma.
Between 1846 and 1868Does it need a comma?
Electric Telegraph Company (ETC)In the lede you were calling it the the Electric. Should there be a common nomenclature?
It was formed without Wheatstone. Cooke and Wheatstone had had a serious falling out over who should take credit for the inventionLink them together, something like It was formed without Wheatstone as he and Cooke had had a serious falling out over who should take credit for the invention.
was reached with them both taking some creditwas reached with both of them taking some credit It a much of a muchness. Eithers good.
The ETC bought out Wheatstone's patent interest in exchange for royalties.[32] They also acquired Davy's relay patent.[33]This is logically one sentence.
The wayleaves gave the ETC exclusive useIt is muddled. Wayleaves is not an entity, it is a byelaw. I don't think it can be spoken about in the first person. I can't make sense of it.
Supply of news to newspapers and stock exchange information to the financial sector were profitabletoo as its a quantity?
A major user from the beginning was the insurer Lloyd's of London, and they had telegraph instruments installed directly in their London offices in 1852as Don't know.
because prices were highdue to high prices
scope_creep Talk 17:36, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The ETC remained by far the largest telegraph company until nationalisationIs that in Britain or Europe?
This company was merged back with the ETC in 1854merged back into the ETC in 1854
Other subsidiaries created whichSubsidiary is not mentioned in previous sentenced. Something Other subsidiary companies that were created laid
initiallyto initially possibly.
The first attempt at this failed, as didComma is not needed. It is a conjunction describing several failures, not a failure and something else.
The Magnetic finally succeeded in 1853, allowing Ireland telegraphic connection for the first time to Britain and to mainland EuropeSlightly muddled. Possibly In 1853 the Magnetic finally succeeded in connecting Ireland to Britain and mainland Europe with a telegraphic connection.
The Magnetic was the largest competitor to the ETC, the two of them forming a virtual duopolyThe Magnetic was the largest competitor to the ETC with the two of them forming a virtual duopoly
That was the British Electric Telegraph Company (BETC, later to change its name to the British Telegraph Company to avoid confusion with the ETC[51]) founded in 1849I would split this as the, founded in 1849 is hanging off the end of the sentence. It is confusing on several reads. Something like That was the British Electric Telegraph Company (BETC) that was founded in 1849. It had to later change its name to the British Telegraph Company to avoid confusion with the ETC[51]..
They wrongly believed that Parliament would force the railway companies to allow them to have linesDoesn't make sense at the end. access to lines The wayleave context is complex as its a right to access.
The area of the District was to be within four miles ofWhy was? The area of the District only encompassed an area less than four miles from Charing Cross, with a plan to later expand it to twenty miles.
Rooftop telegraphsIs that not roof top cabling?
The cheap prices of the District stimulated a much more casual use of the telegraph. In 1862 the company transmitted a quarter of a million messages.These should be joined.
UKTCYou have created the acronym without telling the reader.
The UKTC, founded by Thomas AllanThe UKTC that was founded
Act in 1862Is it not possible to find the act. They are all online now or to give it a name?
Thats ok scope_creep Talk 15:27, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
The District, with low prices and a troublesome rooftop system to maintain showed a loss every year of its existence except 1865Should be The District, with low prices and a troublesome rooftop system to maintain suffered a loss every year of its existence except 1865
The UKTC had come late to the partyMay be better as as a late competitor
agreeing a common price structure, thus destroying their original business modelagreeing a common price structure that eventually destroyed their original business model
In 1851 ETC chargedIn 1851 the ETC
1sYou refer to
one shilling rateabove. Should that not convert all the writing as opposed to numerics, e.g. as 1 shilling instead of 1s.
1/6dMight be worth changing it to one and a half shillings.
1/6dIs there a conversion for this. It is one and a half shillings.
In places where the office was in line of sightRemove in
To connect the telegraph to anywhere outside of Britain submarine telegraph cables were neededTo connect the telegraph to anywhere outside of Britain, submarine telegraph cables were needed
The solution came with gutta-percha, a natural latex from certain trees in the Far EastThe ideal material came with the discovery of a natural latex from the gutta-percha (Palaquium) tree in the Far East
Gutta-percha sets harder than rubber when exposed to the air, but will become plastic, and hence mouldable, in hot water. On cooling, gutta-percha hardens againGutta-percha sets harder than rubber when exposed to the air but when soaked in hot water it become plastic and mouldable. On cooling it hardens again.
The material was brought to attention after William Montgomerie, the head of the medical department in Singapore, sent samples to the Royal Society in 1843Reverse it as The material was bought to the attention of the Royal Society in 1843, when William Montgomerie, the head of the medical department in Singapore sent samples of Gutta-percha to them.
In the damp conditions of the tropics rubber deteriorated raidlyIs this needed? Seemed to have went to the tropics?
In 1844–5 he tested, probably short lengths, of cable in Swansea BayIn 1844-1845 Wheatstone tested short lengths of cable in Swansea Bay. Was it short lengths? link Swansea Bay.
The rival India Rubber, Gutta Percha and Telegraph Works Company was founded in 1864 as an offshoot of S. W. Silver and Co. of [Silvertown]]There seems to be new context. Their main competitor was the India Rubber, Gutta Percha and Telegraph Works Company that was founded in Silvertown, London in 1864 as an offshoot of the clothiers and outfitters S. W. Silver and Co..
These were not very successful, they were easily damaged and some attempts to lay cables failed because they would not sinkShould be something in context like, Using only the insulation was not successful as they were easily damaged and some attempts to lay cables failed due to them not sinking
The construction found to work well was to twist the cable cores together, bind with tarred hemp, wind tarred cord around the whole group of cores, and then protect the assembled cores with iron wires twisted around themThe method of construction that was found to work well...
Exports were a large part of the business, well over £2 million in 1873, 1% of total British manufactured exportsCould be Exports were a large part of the business totalling well over £2 million in 1873 and 1% of total British manufactured exports.
The first ocean cable anywhere in the worldRemove the anywhere. Anywhere is the world
After several failed attempts, the Brett's company, the Submarine Telegraph Company (STC), succeeded in connecting to France in 1851After several failed attempts, the Brett's company known as the Submarine Telegraph Company (STC) finally succeeded in connecting to France in 1851
From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all their submarine cables were to be used only with the landlines of the Magneticwere only to be connected.
Newall was prone to fall out with his customers and was often involved in litigation. The company slowly moved away from the telegraph cable businessShould be joined.
UKTC laid a cable...extended it on to Russia.
...monetary guaranteesproviding
the Red Sea to India cable in 1859 laid by the Red Sea & India CompanyIt is worth mentioning why it was failure. Is that the Indian Mutiny?
was achieved} was finally achieved?
scope_creep Talk 21:47, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Indian governmentlink? Minor
shorter distance in oceanmuddled.
achieved in 1866achieved by 1866 indicating work was done in the interim.
India that went most of the distancethat covered most of the distance
the political and other risks of an overland routethe political and other risks associated with an overland route.
Falmouth was originally intended as the landing site in England, but in the event, the tiny village of Porthcurno became the largest submarine cable station in the world after numerous other cables were landed theremuddled.
Eastern and Associated Cable CompanyPossible link or mention of Cable & Wireless plc that it eventually became
best compete worldwideRemove best.
carried multiple telephone channels by frequency division multiplexingby using the technique of frequency division multiplexing
This solution is not open to submarine cables and the very long distances maximise the problemSeem to be unlinked concept. Muddled possibly. Seems to be first person.
..with heat flow after the fiasco with first the transatlantic cablefiasco is introduced. with first??? Can't make sense of it.
transmission lines which showedwhich described.
but he was a maverick outsideras he was a
added loading coils to a telephone line for the first time in 1900Possibly more explanation? Is that inductors that is spoken about.
early onNo date or decade perhaps
when it started upbegan operating
New recruits were unpaid until they completed training (typically six weeks) at the end of which they were expected to achieve a minimum transmission speed (10 wpm at the Magnetic[136] and 8 wpm at the ETC)I think this is too long. recruits were unpaid until they completed training that typically lasted six weeks. At the end of the training the recruits were expected to achieve a minimum transmission speed, defined as 10 wpm at the Magnetic[136] and 8 wpm at the ETC.
3d a dayNobody know what it is and doesn't compare on the same scale. On the first scale your a week. On this sentence per day. And you have also changed from shillings to d's meaning pennies. Working seven days a week, it would 1.75 shillings per week.
Holding down pay and the fact that women were not organised into unions were the primary reasons the companies preferred to employ themPossibly The fact that women were not organised into unions combined with their smaller pay [requirements] were the primary reasons the companies preferred to employ them
The ability of the telegraph was first brought to the attention of a wider public on 6 August 1844 when the birth of Alfred Ernest Albert to Queen Victoria was reported in The Times only 40 minutes after it was announced.The ability of the telegraph to deliver news to a wide audience was first brought to the attention of the public on 6 August 1844 when the birth of Alfred Ernest Albert to Queen Victoria was reported in The Times only 40 minutes after it was announced
This was an unprecedented ability in international communicationsThis ability was unprecedented...
Also in 1851In the same year. Minor
competition undercompetition by the..
later price control under nationalisationlater price controls after nationalisation' nationalisation should be linked about somewhere. Multiple price controls.
intensive usage of lines and the economic case for building new linesand provide the economic
This could only come about, according to AllanAccording to Allan this could only happen if
This could only come about, according to Allan, if the Post Office ran the network as a unified whole, comparing his proposal to the effect of the introduction of the Penny Post.Big sentence
A more surprising, and more influential, advocate was John Ricardo, free trade campaigning Member of Parliament, railway entrepreneur, banker, and cofounder of the ETCBit of a comma overkill. A surprising and influential advocate was the Member of Parliament John Ricardo who co-founded the ETC. Ricardo was a free trade campaigner as well as a railway entrepreneur and banker. I know you should avoid two links together, but some articles need to link to it.
government tooltool? utility maybe.
19:05, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Frank Ives Scudamorethe post office reformer Frank Ives Scudamore
much parliamentary timesignificant parliamentary time
had the wayleave.had access to the wayleaves tense changes mid sentence
Spinning Spark 11:05, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
The resulting opposition from the telegraph companies had been expectedThe resulting opposition from the telegraph companies had been expected by the government
In June, the companies started to negotiateIn June, the companies started to negotiate with the government
The solution arrived at, in a great hurry and afterwards admitted to be not ideal, was to purchase Reuter's cables and lease them back to the STC, together with other continental cables acquired by the Post Office.A bit muddled. In a great hurry the government arrived at a what they considered an imperfect solution and that was purchase Reuter's cables and lease them back to the STC, together with other continental cables acquired by the Post Office
Coolio. scope_creep Talk 13:47, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
ETC buildingExpand the ETC here. Minor. I think getting rid of one would benefit the article.
On the other hand, the Post Office overall remained profitable throughoutMuddled. However, the Post Fffice remained profitable throughout this period
6d rateNeed rationalised.
at Manchesterin Manchester
Their pay was still less than the pay in cable and maintenance companies; moreTheir pay was still less than the pay in cable and maintenance companies resulting in more
In 1868 Charles Monk gotIn 1868 Charles Monk introduced ... that became law. In the next sentence I see. In 1868 Charles Monk introduced a private member's bill in parliament that would extend the vote to Post Office workers and other civil servants. Link to voting.
Is this not in the wrong location?
very minor playervery minor competitor
William Preece, Post Office Chief Electrician (chief engineer)Does it need it or it provided by the references?
There then followed the founding of a string of private telephone companies; the Telephone Company had the rights to Alexander Graham Bell's patent and the Edison Telephone Company had the rival patents of Thomas Edison, the two later merging as the United Telephone Company (UTC)Split this giant sentence. You could start with There then followed the founding of a string of private telephone companies.
serious damage could be done to the telegraph businessserious damage to the telegraph business would have occurred Taken out present tense and reordered.
monopoly of telephoneson?
the blind Henry FawcettI would take out blind, particularly when he a polymath.
Lancashire & CheshireNo mentioned of the Lancashire & Cheshire anywhere.
Prior to World War I, the telegraph rates charged to news services was much discussedBy who?
60/80could this be 60 to 80
3d
Some of the London pressSome London newspaper proprietors
Harold Harmsworth (Lord Rothermere)After you become a peer, you start using the name and your old name is no longer used. He was created a baronet in 1910 and from that point on he was referred to Lord Rothermere and it is reflected in his own article.
1/3d
3dthreepence which can be linked to Threepence (British coin)
Fine. scope_creep Talk 23:47, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
got telegraph connectionswere connected to the telegraph
call-points??
Because traffic was declining in the 1920s, it was not worthwhile to automate many less busy linesinto Traffic was declining in the 1920's because it was not worthwhile to automate many less busy lines. That puts the conjunction where it should be.
Hi @ Spinningspark: There are three entries left and it is completed for prose. scope_creep Talk 15:03, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all their submarine cables were to be used only with the landlines of the MagneticIs it possible to put something like : From about 1857 the Magnetic had an agreement with them that all messages sent on all their submarine cables had to be retransmitted onto the landlines of the Magnetic It makes it much longer and gives the reader an idea of what happening without a three sentence explanation. scope_creep Talk 18:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
That seems to be section finished. I couldn't identify any particular caveats. Hi @ Spinningspark: have I made any mistakes in this section. I think it passes. scope_creep Talk 19:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
I have done a frequency analysis on the references, I will post it in the next couple of days. They are not standard. scope_creep Talk 23:25, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
Very good sources. All publishers checked. Close this. scope_creep Talk 16:50, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
I think in term broadness of sources, it is successful. I think you have very wide coverage and its fine. scope_creep Talk 22:00, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Spinningspark: I have reviewed the images. scope_creep Talk 13:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Spinningspark:. Now that images are done, I notice there is no chart or diagram in the article, e.g. detailing growth rate of each company, or details the growth in miles of cable put in. I several charts that may have been useful, but they've lost. I found this, e.g; [3] scope_creep Talk 15:19, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I notice that a lot of your comments are requesting additional information to be inserted in the lead. The lead is already quite lengthy, definitely at the upper limit of what a lead should be. In nearly every case the details requested are fully explained in the body of the article. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the article. It is not necessary to include many of these details. Largely, these comments are not issues that are GA requirements. Now, in this case, I don't have a problem with you addressing issues that are not strictly GA requirements since I intend to take this article on to FA. But because of the length issue, I want to resist making too many additions to the lead unless they are either matters of clarity (criterion 1a) or important content is missing (criterion 1b). I'll wait for a response from you before addressing those points individually. Spinning Spark 13:31, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Can we have a general discussion of what to do about this issue here? I think it would be best to establish a general principle first and then apply it to the individual items. Spinning Spark 14:42, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
References
x
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Electric Telegraph Company
Electric and International Telegraph Company |
ETC → the Electric |
English and Irish Magnetic Telegraph Company
British and Irish Magnetic Telegraph Company |
the Magnetic |
British Electric Telegraph Company
British Telegraph Company |
BETC → ? |
London District Telegraph Company | the District |
United Kingdom Telegraph Company | UKTC → ? |
Universal Private Telegraph Company | UPTC → the Universal |
Submarine Telegraph Company | STC → ? |
There are still a few unresolved question marks. Spinning Spark 15:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Ian Rose has come in and gave a couple of suggestions, so I have reopened this. I think it is worth a thought Spinningspark. scope_creep Talk 15:05, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
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