I deleted a sentence that claimed that as a congressman, Montt is immune from prosecution. Although the press (such as Prensa Libre) frequently reports that this is the case under the Guatemalan Judicial system, the law actually states that immunity cannot be applied retroactively, and current elected officials are still vulnerable to prosecution for previous offenses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.147.176.66 ( talk) 01:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The article should specify when exactly he was president of the Congress. It just says he was elected in 1994, but I don't think he held that post all the time through 2004. NoPuzzleStranger 20:56, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
A pox on all your houses. Seriously. -- Dhartung | Talk 19:53, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
the article clearly overstates Montt's own personal ties to the U.S. it says "over five decades" despite the fact that Dhartung here already demonstrated that Montt did not play a role in the actual coup. U.S. ties can be shown without exaggeration J. Parker Stone 21:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Roberto D'Aubuisson was trained at the SOA too, and last I checked he and his fellow counterrevolutionaries were peeved at us for helping Duarte win the '84 election. And wasn't Peru's Socialist president (at one time) trained there as well? Point being, this whole attempt to chain him to the U.S. in a myriad of ways (Robertson, SOA, successive administrations (which weren't too preoccupied with Guatemala...)) is overblown and POV. J. Parker Stone 21:36, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
i'm dying to hear a response. a master historian should be able to provide ample documentation of such lucrative 50-year ties to the U.S. (and by documentation, i don't mean lefty sites like Cooperative Research) J. Parker Stone 23:30, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Cooperative Research was the site linked to to explain the UFC-Arbenz thing... Anyway, i don't have time to read these books, but i do know that these ties are just not as extensive as you claim, and you have provided no proof otherwise. J. Parker Stone 08:07, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
well good for you. i never denied it, i just said that i didn't think going in-depth was relevant to this article. J. Parker Stone 23:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) - These edits caught me by surprise --the edits/article that stated that Rios Mont came into power without CIA/US intervention. I can't argue for or against - literature can show bias either way. However, I was in Guatemala at the time. The rumors and feeling from many 'connected' was that the CIA was part of the coup to put Montt in power, flying the group from El Salvador to Guatemala City with CIA behind-the-scenes action. True or not, I don't know, but is probably as accurate as biased writings. Regardless, Montt can't be solely blamed for the mass killings. Massacres and village killings was also occuring before Montt took over the government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.47.243 ( talk) 01:28, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Trey Stone, you say "i don't have time to read these books, but i do know that these ties are just not as extensive as you claim, and you have provided no proof otherwise." I don't see a lot of cites to any particular passages in those books being made in the article, but simply saying you don't have time to research an article and that "YOU KNOW" something is unacceptable. How do you know? Fred Bauder 18:58, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
I've gotten confirmation that the purported source that the U.S. and CIA weren't involved in the 1982 coup contains no such exoneration. It's completely bogus. I'll leave info on the most recent reverter's talk page.
Mattm1138 23:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I just edited this article; sorry, didn't see the protected notice. Here's the diff. Can that be allowed to stand (links added and one or two wording tweaks), or must it be reverted? –Hajor 5 July 2005 15:43 (UTC)
172 is working on other stuff right now, so I'll just post this for when he feels like looking back at this article.
My issues with the article essentially are:
On his denial that he knew about the massacres -- I don't know if we need to include this. Pinochet said the same thing in a Miami interview i think, about how he didn't know about the torture and disappearances occurring under the junta. of course they're gonna deny it.
on "genocidal neo-fascist" -- not to get overly technical here, i know he's widely regarded as genocidal, but do his opponents make as much of a point of calling him a "neo-fascist?" J. Parker Stone 00:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
If you are trying to pin point ideology on a Guatemalan party forget it, its imposible. From first hand experience I can tell you that all politics break up into two big parties very fast. First you have the party of the peasants which is left hanging and then you have the party of the land barons and middle class which is right hanging. I can tell you that such lables as "genocidal neo-facist" are irrelevant, and guatemalan politics will no longer break into ideological battles. The reason that Rios Mont has a fair chance at beeing elected president an the reason that the constitutional court skillfully blocked it, is that most Guatemalans regard Rios Monts presidency as a time of safety; the guerrillas where being represed, as the page says "urban centers knew a time of peace" (or something along those lines). Guatemala now is ridden with viloence by organized crime especially gangs, and druglords. Guatemalans want to see peace imposed with an iron hand, there have been direct calls by communities to the military to come and take over, that is the situation. Some believe that Rios Mont with his Evangelical morals will bring peace and stability.
Please take the old coot from the facist category, not all genocide is Hitler inspired. His clear support is for the masses, his party base are the masses, if anything I would call him a populist.
I also dispute the claim that what happened during the armed conflict was a genocide, there never was an intention to exterminate (second hand testimonial from a military colonel) only a deeply seeded racism. It would be comparable to the NYC mayor deciding to stomp out crime and going after all the blacks in the Bronx.
(im Guatemalan in case ur wandering) -- SvenGodo 06:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
There's a small mistake:
Under the "Presidential candidate 2003" section, in the 6th paragraph. Change where it says Oscar Berger ran for the PAN party, in truth, it is the "GANA" party. PAN was his old party, and the GANA was the alliance of 3 different parties.
""Though, with Guatemala still very much a military ruled state run by an elitist group of whites, it is doubtful Rios Montt will ever be brought to justice. ""
Guatemala is now-a-days a democracy (some civil rights groups seem to have overlooked this fact) we have had 3 succesfull electons cycles and we are moving on our 4th on 2007. We are not "a military ruled state" and might i point out that the 1996 peace agreements made shure to cut the balls off of the military.
I have no objections to the "an elitist group of whites" part I consider it to be an accurate assesment.
(im guatemalan in case ur wandering) -- SvenGodo 06:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I object, if all whites in Guatemala were the elite it would be fine but that is clearly not the case, SqueakBox 20:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
if you want to change the name please first give your reasons here. The Spanish version says Efraín [4], SqueakBox 20:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Should include the sarcastic nickname "Dios" Montt, which was widely reported in newspaper stories in the 1980s. AnonMoos ( talk) 02:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
he is accused of killing mayan indians as 'genocide', so i am curious what all his own blood is.
To my knowledge, he does not. I could be mistaken, though. Josh ( talk) 03:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The most recent edit talks about events in 2016 but cites an article from 2013. I think the editor may have misread the 2013 article (specifically, misreading the date), but I don't know enough about the subject to say with any certainty. Hopefully this can get attention from someone who knows more about the subject.
50.100.2.196 ( talk) 00:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
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I was thinking of adding him to the Category:Genocide perpetrators. Would that be allowed, or would it be considered potentially libelous, given that he is still alive? Josh ( talk) 03:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
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Isn't it a gotspe to honour a man who only became president by committing a coup and then had many innocent people killed with the epithet of "His Excellency" (in the box)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retal ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
I deleted a sentence that claimed that as a congressman, Montt is immune from prosecution. Although the press (such as Prensa Libre) frequently reports that this is the case under the Guatemalan Judicial system, the law actually states that immunity cannot be applied retroactively, and current elected officials are still vulnerable to prosecution for previous offenses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.147.176.66 ( talk) 01:50, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The article should specify when exactly he was president of the Congress. It just says he was elected in 1994, but I don't think he held that post all the time through 2004. NoPuzzleStranger 20:56, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
A pox on all your houses. Seriously. -- Dhartung | Talk 19:53, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
the article clearly overstates Montt's own personal ties to the U.S. it says "over five decades" despite the fact that Dhartung here already demonstrated that Montt did not play a role in the actual coup. U.S. ties can be shown without exaggeration J. Parker Stone 21:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Roberto D'Aubuisson was trained at the SOA too, and last I checked he and his fellow counterrevolutionaries were peeved at us for helping Duarte win the '84 election. And wasn't Peru's Socialist president (at one time) trained there as well? Point being, this whole attempt to chain him to the U.S. in a myriad of ways (Robertson, SOA, successive administrations (which weren't too preoccupied with Guatemala...)) is overblown and POV. J. Parker Stone 21:36, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
i'm dying to hear a response. a master historian should be able to provide ample documentation of such lucrative 50-year ties to the U.S. (and by documentation, i don't mean lefty sites like Cooperative Research) J. Parker Stone 23:30, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Cooperative Research was the site linked to to explain the UFC-Arbenz thing... Anyway, i don't have time to read these books, but i do know that these ties are just not as extensive as you claim, and you have provided no proof otherwise. J. Parker Stone 08:07, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
well good for you. i never denied it, i just said that i didn't think going in-depth was relevant to this article. J. Parker Stone 23:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC) - These edits caught me by surprise --the edits/article that stated that Rios Mont came into power without CIA/US intervention. I can't argue for or against - literature can show bias either way. However, I was in Guatemala at the time. The rumors and feeling from many 'connected' was that the CIA was part of the coup to put Montt in power, flying the group from El Salvador to Guatemala City with CIA behind-the-scenes action. True or not, I don't know, but is probably as accurate as biased writings. Regardless, Montt can't be solely blamed for the mass killings. Massacres and village killings was also occuring before Montt took over the government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.47.243 ( talk) 01:28, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Trey Stone, you say "i don't have time to read these books, but i do know that these ties are just not as extensive as you claim, and you have provided no proof otherwise." I don't see a lot of cites to any particular passages in those books being made in the article, but simply saying you don't have time to research an article and that "YOU KNOW" something is unacceptable. How do you know? Fred Bauder 18:58, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)
I've gotten confirmation that the purported source that the U.S. and CIA weren't involved in the 1982 coup contains no such exoneration. It's completely bogus. I'll leave info on the most recent reverter's talk page.
Mattm1138 23:22, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I just edited this article; sorry, didn't see the protected notice. Here's the diff. Can that be allowed to stand (links added and one or two wording tweaks), or must it be reverted? –Hajor 5 July 2005 15:43 (UTC)
172 is working on other stuff right now, so I'll just post this for when he feels like looking back at this article.
My issues with the article essentially are:
On his denial that he knew about the massacres -- I don't know if we need to include this. Pinochet said the same thing in a Miami interview i think, about how he didn't know about the torture and disappearances occurring under the junta. of course they're gonna deny it.
on "genocidal neo-fascist" -- not to get overly technical here, i know he's widely regarded as genocidal, but do his opponents make as much of a point of calling him a "neo-fascist?" J. Parker Stone 00:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
If you are trying to pin point ideology on a Guatemalan party forget it, its imposible. From first hand experience I can tell you that all politics break up into two big parties very fast. First you have the party of the peasants which is left hanging and then you have the party of the land barons and middle class which is right hanging. I can tell you that such lables as "genocidal neo-facist" are irrelevant, and guatemalan politics will no longer break into ideological battles. The reason that Rios Mont has a fair chance at beeing elected president an the reason that the constitutional court skillfully blocked it, is that most Guatemalans regard Rios Monts presidency as a time of safety; the guerrillas where being represed, as the page says "urban centers knew a time of peace" (or something along those lines). Guatemala now is ridden with viloence by organized crime especially gangs, and druglords. Guatemalans want to see peace imposed with an iron hand, there have been direct calls by communities to the military to come and take over, that is the situation. Some believe that Rios Mont with his Evangelical morals will bring peace and stability.
Please take the old coot from the facist category, not all genocide is Hitler inspired. His clear support is for the masses, his party base are the masses, if anything I would call him a populist.
I also dispute the claim that what happened during the armed conflict was a genocide, there never was an intention to exterminate (second hand testimonial from a military colonel) only a deeply seeded racism. It would be comparable to the NYC mayor deciding to stomp out crime and going after all the blacks in the Bronx.
(im Guatemalan in case ur wandering) -- SvenGodo 06:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
There's a small mistake:
Under the "Presidential candidate 2003" section, in the 6th paragraph. Change where it says Oscar Berger ran for the PAN party, in truth, it is the "GANA" party. PAN was his old party, and the GANA was the alliance of 3 different parties.
""Though, with Guatemala still very much a military ruled state run by an elitist group of whites, it is doubtful Rios Montt will ever be brought to justice. ""
Guatemala is now-a-days a democracy (some civil rights groups seem to have overlooked this fact) we have had 3 succesfull electons cycles and we are moving on our 4th on 2007. We are not "a military ruled state" and might i point out that the 1996 peace agreements made shure to cut the balls off of the military.
I have no objections to the "an elitist group of whites" part I consider it to be an accurate assesment.
(im guatemalan in case ur wandering) -- SvenGodo 06:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I object, if all whites in Guatemala were the elite it would be fine but that is clearly not the case, SqueakBox 20:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
if you want to change the name please first give your reasons here. The Spanish version says Efraín [4], SqueakBox 20:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Should include the sarcastic nickname "Dios" Montt, which was widely reported in newspaper stories in the 1980s. AnonMoos ( talk) 02:39, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
he is accused of killing mayan indians as 'genocide', so i am curious what all his own blood is.
To my knowledge, he does not. I could be mistaken, though. Josh ( talk) 03:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The most recent edit talks about events in 2016 but cites an article from 2013. I think the editor may have misread the 2013 article (specifically, misreading the date), but I don't know enough about the subject to say with any certainty. Hopefully this can get attention from someone who knows more about the subject.
50.100.2.196 ( talk) 00:24, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
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I was thinking of adding him to the Category:Genocide perpetrators. Would that be allowed, or would it be considered potentially libelous, given that he is still alive? Josh ( talk) 03:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
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Isn't it a gotspe to honour a man who only became president by committing a coup and then had many innocent people killed with the epithet of "His Excellency" (in the box)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retal ( talk • contribs) 21:51, 18 August 2018 (UTC)