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@ CesareBrizio, you should be proud of this article. I conducted a quick search and couldn't find much of anything. I'm impressed you found so many sources! If I were a reviewer, I'd accept this draft. Great job! Dswitz10734 ( talk) 20:06, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Dswitz10734, Thank you very much! I've been researching the subject for a long time and several months ago I finally succeeded to get in touch with Raymond Schoch, the son of Ed Schoch, now 75 years old. After reading his book "An Aviator" (not commercially available - he printed the book on his own funds and distributes it only to his acquaintances), I urged him to prepare a short draft to honor his Father, and he promptly did. I would have gladly conceived the text by myself, but my coarse English would have lowered its quality, and it seemed to me that Ray Schoch was best suited for the task. I failed miserably on first submission - suffice to say that I initially cited only tree references, and the draft was duly rejected! Then, I leveraged my research work on the XF-85 Goblin ("The Goblinarium") to add some additional information. I hope that now, with a wider array of citations, the draft will be accepted... Fingers crossed! By the way, if you are interested in that decade of US Aviation, you may check here: "American Aircraft Fan Club" - the style of my pages is poor to say the least, but this is how I like them and most importantly this is the only way I know to publish on the Web (bare HTML pages!). Again thank you. CesareBrizio ( talk) 20:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DGG, thank you for having educated me about the importance of the number of unbiased, third-party references. Being at my absolute first submission, I grossly underestimated how many, and which kind of, sources I should have cited. Fortunately, Edwin Foresman Schoch is a legend, the coverage is abundant and I've been researching the subject for several years. I may provide further citations and references, if required. I hope that now my draft complies with the Wikipedia standards. Otherwise, please feel free to provide additional advice. All the best, CesareBrizio ( talk) 13:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DGG, thank you for your advice, but I respectfully disagree. I could not reasonably add to the Wikipedia page about the XF-85 most of the information and of the references - totally unrelated with the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin - that can be found in my draft. Here are some reasons of my respectful dissent:
For those reasons, I'll take the liberty to resubmit the article hoping that a different reviewer may not share your much welcome and kind opinion. CesareBrizio ( talk) 15:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
It should be noted that Wikipedia accepted shorter articles about less referenced test pilots such as the following (but I could cite several more...):
while my fully developed draft about a pilot who tested several important planes and deserved three military honors is declined. CesareBrizio ( talk) 11:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Wylie - I do agree! Furthermore, it suffices to google for "Ed Schoch" "Test Pilot" to get 429 clickable results. Several among the 28 references that I cited are official sources by U.S. government agencies or by McDonnell Corporation, other are from aviation historians of the highest reputation. CesareBrizio ( talk) 13:28, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
@ User:Ahunt - I edited the draft as per Your suggestion and every paragraph is referred to the relevant source of information. CesareBrizio ( talk) 19:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Edwin Foresman Schoch article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
@ CesareBrizio, you should be proud of this article. I conducted a quick search and couldn't find much of anything. I'm impressed you found so many sources! If I were a reviewer, I'd accept this draft. Great job! Dswitz10734 ( talk) 20:06, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Dswitz10734, Thank you very much! I've been researching the subject for a long time and several months ago I finally succeeded to get in touch with Raymond Schoch, the son of Ed Schoch, now 75 years old. After reading his book "An Aviator" (not commercially available - he printed the book on his own funds and distributes it only to his acquaintances), I urged him to prepare a short draft to honor his Father, and he promptly did. I would have gladly conceived the text by myself, but my coarse English would have lowered its quality, and it seemed to me that Ray Schoch was best suited for the task. I failed miserably on first submission - suffice to say that I initially cited only tree references, and the draft was duly rejected! Then, I leveraged my research work on the XF-85 Goblin ("The Goblinarium") to add some additional information. I hope that now, with a wider array of citations, the draft will be accepted... Fingers crossed! By the way, if you are interested in that decade of US Aviation, you may check here: "American Aircraft Fan Club" - the style of my pages is poor to say the least, but this is how I like them and most importantly this is the only way I know to publish on the Web (bare HTML pages!). Again thank you. CesareBrizio ( talk) 20:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DGG, thank you for having educated me about the importance of the number of unbiased, third-party references. Being at my absolute first submission, I grossly underestimated how many, and which kind of, sources I should have cited. Fortunately, Edwin Foresman Schoch is a legend, the coverage is abundant and I've been researching the subject for several years. I may provide further citations and references, if required. I hope that now my draft complies with the Wikipedia standards. Otherwise, please feel free to provide additional advice. All the best, CesareBrizio ( talk) 13:15, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DGG, thank you for your advice, but I respectfully disagree. I could not reasonably add to the Wikipedia page about the XF-85 most of the information and of the references - totally unrelated with the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin - that can be found in my draft. Here are some reasons of my respectful dissent:
For those reasons, I'll take the liberty to resubmit the article hoping that a different reviewer may not share your much welcome and kind opinion. CesareBrizio ( talk) 15:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
It should be noted that Wikipedia accepted shorter articles about less referenced test pilots such as the following (but I could cite several more...):
while my fully developed draft about a pilot who tested several important planes and deserved three military honors is declined. CesareBrizio ( talk) 11:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Wylie - I do agree! Furthermore, it suffices to google for "Ed Schoch" "Test Pilot" to get 429 clickable results. Several among the 28 references that I cited are official sources by U.S. government agencies or by McDonnell Corporation, other are from aviation historians of the highest reputation. CesareBrizio ( talk) 13:28, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
@ User:Ahunt - I edited the draft as per Your suggestion and every paragraph is referred to the relevant source of information. CesareBrizio ( talk) 19:55, 27 March 2021 (UTC)