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I think the entry on Husserl needs some updating and improving. I will try to improve matters, which will lead to a more extended and organised page. I will start by providing some categories and reallocating the existing information to those.
As Husserl's life and works are closely connected I deem a chronological approach the clearest one. I propose a division in 5 headings:
The reworking of this entry will probably bring several new empty entries ( noesis, noema, Munich phenomenology, etc.). I will try to provide at least a stub to begin with for all those new entries. Help and criticism is greatly appreciated.
I noticed that Husserl recently has been placed in the category "continental philosophy". That is debatable, as Husserl can be placed before and above the alleged rift between so-called continental and analytic philosophy. As has been repeatedly argued in the literature, the entire School of Brentano is quite analytic and scientific in its approach and could be better classified under the header Austrian Philosophy (including i.a. Brentano, Meinong, Husserl and all their schools and pupils), as opposed to German philosophy such as German idealism, Kant and Neo-kantianism, Karl Marx and Heidegger. Alternatively, in view of his considerable influence on cognitive science and philosophy of mind, couldn't he be placed in two (or more) catagories?
no phenomology mentionded in article
What is "phenomology"? I can't make any sense of the sentence that contains "...combine mathematics, psychology and philosophy with as main goal...."
Husserl's Ideen(Ideas) needs a thorough description in a seperate article.
This is outrageous, one thing is to say Carnap misunderstood Husserl. A quite different one is to say such a movement, which preceded Carnap's attending Husserl's lectures, could have been originated, even in part, by a misunderstanding of a such a different kind of philosophy. YoungSpinoza 21:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
You appear to be quite biased against the mere possibility that phenomenology and analytical philosophy might just share an ancestor or might have influenced each other at some point. Let's start out by building some common ground here, based on solid, demonstrable facts.
Hence I would ask you to reconsider your rant about Husserl not being a "true" mathematician and your claim that his style and method would not be "appropriate". Once we agree on some common ground, we might tackle the real issue at hand, regarding Carnap's understanding of Husserl and the influence it had on the development of Logical Positivism. Moreover, the "analytic-continental" shift didn't even exist at the time, and besides Peirce and Dewey there was no "anglo-saxon" philosophy outside of Great Britain either. Heidegger's philosophy and everything that followed might be considered "phenomenological", but not Husserlian Phenomenology, which is at stake here, so don't confuse postmodernism or anything like that with Husserl, whose ideals, like those of many members of the School of Brentano, were quite in line with what today is called analytical philosophy. A paper that might interest you could be David Woodruff Smith How to Husserl a Quine - and a Heidegger, too in Synthese 98 (1994) pp. 153–173 Regards, Cat 12:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Now, you do re-address the issue when referring to “regarding Carnap's understanding of Husserl and the influence it had on the development of Logical Positivism”. I do agree Brentano, neo-kantism and other late XIX century groups or thinkers may bear a resemblance to LP, and/or OLF and/or philosophy of science and/or many other sub-disciplines related to APh. Husserl may also have, though I believe less, resemblances of such a kind. Putnam said “well, when you come to think of it, even Plato may have been an analytical philosopher”. Of course, that doesn’t mean any kind of philosopher may classify as such (i.e. Hegel). Yet, parallelism is one thing, saying something “is partly originated by” is quite another (not to mention the original version said something quite encyclopedic like “the whole bunch of LP was a deviated branch of Phenomenology”). Going into individual “who influenced who” topics is much the “continental” way of talking about (or even doing) philosophy, which, you may imagine, I don’t really like to indulge in in my free time (not that I despise it at all, though). I suggest this: first, open (you) a new paragraph with title “parallelisms with analytical philosophy” and pour whatever parallelism you think appropriate; second, if you find an author (any, though I suggest not yourself, even though you may have published material on it) that speaks of LP or APh as being “partially originated by (early) Phenomenology”, then state it and cite “according to X, […] [reference]”. I’m sorry if I gave the impression I was an APh fanatic trying to dogmatically reject any parallelism, I just got over excited about a statement in the introduction that was blunt, POV and ameliorated after a clear “ideological philosophical vandalism”. I’ll try to get that article you mentioned, best regards. YoungSpinoza 18:09, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I plan on adding and re-editing a lot of this when I get the chance. I plan on discussing noema and noesis, etc. As well as "hyletic data" (though maybe not so much). I also plan on elaborating on the natural standpoint.
Kevin L. 05:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure I completely agree with you. Husserl does talk about "acts" (and please note I only have read selections from Ideas) in terms of "acts of perception". However, and I am only saying this with partial certainty while in a pre-sleep dose, I do not take it that the noema itself is the act itself. In this language (and I might indeed be confused in some sense), it seems more fitting to say that the noesis is the act particular to the perceiver. However, the noema is the objective (in the sense that it is in all thinkers when they are in that noetic experience, as opposed to the noesis which is subjective and particular to the thinker) meaning attached to the object (I must be careful here, for many reasons) that sets up the framework through which hyletic data is ascertained (this, I take it, is what Husserl means when he talks about "filling" [or it might have been "fulfillment", I forget at this moment]). I do not doubt that you know much about Husserl and Heidegger, among others, but in this particular instance I feel inclined to respectfully disagree with you. Please correct me if I am indeed wrong. Kevin L. 06:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Husserl has to be read closely, Kevin. Husserl's language is not Heigibberish. Husserl wasn't trying to fool anybody.-- BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:38, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Re ABSCHATTUNG. Dear Kevin, you're quite obviously a decent and intelligent person. So I hope you won't be offended when I tell you that I can't discuss Husserl's terms with you. We would never be able to find common ground because we would not be talking about the same text. That's what I was trying to bring across with my remark. We could, however, talk about Husserl in a more general context. Take e.g. your strange statement that I "know much about Husserl and Heidegger". This is, of course, a classical syllepsis (or more loosely: a zeugma). What is strange about it is not so much that your schooling prevents you from seeing your figure of speech for what it is, but that it prevents you from realizing that other people consider the yoking of these two names as ridiculous. Or am I only imagining this?--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Re IRRELEVANT. You mean to say that you would NOT think it is ridiculous to describe someone as knowing a lot about Beethoven and Britney Spears? Then how about Mozart and Mickey Mouse? Still not ridiculous? César Franck and Frankenstein? No?
You are mistaken, Kevin. This is neither irrelevant, nor can it be called quibbling. We are right at the center of the problem. Your problem. If you can't see that "Husserl and Heidegger" sounds ridiculous in ANY context it is because you believe that Heidegger was a philosopher. But as long as it is not 100% clear to you that Herr Professor Heidegger's writings are nothing but a monstrous pile of garbage, your opinions about Husserl's philosophy will not have any weight. Yes, Kevin, I do think that talking about trigonometry doesn't make much sense as long as it's not clear to all parties concerned what is and what is not a triangle. What's more, there is another point that in your shoes I would try to make clear BEFORE setting out to write a great article on Husserl: What makes an article great? I could of course give you my answer to this question. But I don't want to waste your time with yet another discussion that you feel is irrelevant to the matter at hand. I wish you lots of luck with your work.
--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Re BASIC QUESTION. Hey, YoungSpinoza, will you do me a favor? Next time, you are in the library, please get a copy of what Heidegger had to say about Die Grundfrage der Philosophie (The Basic Question of Philosophy) in the summer semester of 1933. The first two pages will do. But please don't cheat. Read them in the original German. Pay attention to the rhythm. Imagine you're sitting in class, listening to the Herr Professor hammering it in. Listen to the students stamping madly (noted in some editions) whenever Heidegger hits the right key. Don't worry, your German is good enough for this particular Heidegger text. As a matter of fact, your German is good enough for any Heidegger text. Heidegger's "philosophy" is revealed only in the texts that you can read. Forget about anything written in the usual Heigibberish.
When you are through with the two pages, please explain to the people here what kind of philosophy the students (Kevin's "secondary sources"!) were taught by the Herr Professor. And explain to them also why there can be no serious discussion about Husserl or any other philosopher of his time without this text. Sorry, but I haven't got the strength.--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
how did he die? Being a jew in nazi germany i can think of a few possible causes but its not mentioned, other than to say that he lived until 1938. WookMuff 11:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Was Husserl's famous exposition on phenomenology in the Encyclopedia Brittanica currently in the public domain? That'd be a nice thing to reproduce? Balonkey 15:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Not Public Domain AFAIK, but it is online here. Cat 19:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Husserl was Jewish, but no where does it suggest he was a Czech, and one cannot redefine the term "Czech Jew" to mean anyone born in Bohemia and Moravia who was Jewish. If this category is to be added it needs to have a rename that is appropriate in its use of words. 141.211.251.69 22:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
He wasnt Czech. He was German. Redy
Is there a reason Kant isn't listed as an influence? I was about to add him to the list of influences, but figured it would be best if I asked here first whether or not there are any reasons for his name being absent. Josh.passmore 17:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Simone de Beauvoir should absolutely be listed as a philosopher influenced by Husserl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leparadis ( talk • contribs) 06:00, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
The section about Frege's influence on Husserl seems out-of-context and overly specific/specialized. It looks like someone copied and pasted their philosophy mid-term into the article. Does anyone have any particular reason it should stay, or can it go? Binkyping 01:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working on Georg Cantor, and would really like to include parts of the section copy/pasted below. I can't, however, because I have no full references for the assertions. Can anyone supply full references? Thanks:
Husserl recognized a logical third stratum, a meta-logical level, what he called a "theory of all possible forms of theories"... It is, in formal ontology, a free investigation where a mathematician can assign several meanings to several symbols, and all their possible valid deductions in a general and indeterminate manner. It is properly speaking the most universal mathematics of all. Through the posit of certain indeterminate objects (formal-ontological categories) as well as any combination of mathematical axioms, mathematicians can explore the apodeictic connections between them just as long as consistency is preserved.
This view of logic and mathematics accounted, according to him, for the objectivity of a series of mathematical development of his time, such as ... Cantor's set theory among others.
Thanks Ling.Nut 00:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
AFAIK these points are made in Husserl's Prolegomena. IIRC most of them are inspired by Bolzano. Search Google Scholar for articles on Husserl's concept of "pure logic". Cat 19:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
These two redlinks appear on this page, and are being addressed as part of the improvement project on logic articles.
The two redlinks appear only in this article. If there is no objection, I'm going to link both to formula (mathematical logic) tomorrow. Rick Norwood 14:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure why, but in the section on Husserl's critique of psychologism, there is a sudden digression into another language. Vandalism, I assume, but I don't know what language it is. Here's an example: μετάβασις εἰς ἄλλο γένος. If anyone could translate it back to the original, that would be great. Tiger Khan ( talk) 04:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I came to this page with almost no idea about Edmund Husserl, I'd been recommended to read about his work by a friend/ uni lecturer. So I represent an ordinary wikipedia user, not a specialist.
The article obviously has the potential to be great. The writers obviously have a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge. But, the big problem is for an encyclopaedic purpose it gets much too technical and detailed too early on - the initial summary explanation needs expanding and clarifying a lot!
Thanks. 82.32.0.13 ( talk) 11:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Here here, to much showing off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.35.81.18 ( talk) 15:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I made a slight change in the opening bio discussion - it had mentioned where he was born, then continued with a barbed comment about the expulsion of the German population in 1945. This I find problematic - not only did Husserl leave well before this time and not for this reason, but the German expulsion happened after his death. In terms of accuracy, Prostějov ceased to be part of the Austrian Empire in 1918, not 1945. A small point, admittedly, but I just wonder why an article such as this would serve as a forum for unrelated cultural politics. Hm. Br.locke ( talk) 02:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi! Are there any sources stating how much exposure did Husserl have to the findings of physics at the turn of the 20th century? I am asking because (it might sound naive, I know), concepts like relativity of time may have helped push him toward studying the phenomenology of time and maybe even the transcendental reduction. -- 213.6.6.112 ( talk) 11:31, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Huh?
Leibniz hasn't influenced
Husserl and the latter hasn't been influenced by him?
I find this a bit odd...
Is there anyone, please, that would like to discuss it in private?
Thanks for your attention.
science.is.based.on.curiosity@gmail.com
Maurice Carbonaro (
talk) 09:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I gave up on the psychologism section, but the next copyeditor may find these comments useful.
Is Psychologism totally a thing of the past? Who says? Needs a citation. Will make it present tense until some citation shows it doesn't exist any more. Stipulation is the wrong word, but that's not a copyediting problem, that's a content problem. What are the opposing views? Who states that logic exists outside of the human mind? That would be good as a counter-point. At any rate, the section on psychologism needs lots of work, besides just copyediting.
I strongly object to the terms "psychologism," "biologism" and "anthropologism" (the latter two merely thrown in with not even the merest attempt to discuss them) appearing without citations, without accompanying articles, without other points of view. I know the overall argument, most people who've taken up the finer points of logic know the overall scope of the "psychologism" argument - but let's not decide in advance who is correct. Make it neutral!
The article is under-referenced and makes sweeping claims about entire disciplines, without even linking to sections of wikis to show that the claims have any basis at all. Psychologism isn't even a word, and if it is one of the philosophical 'isms it needs its own page.
Using a passive tense instead of "we" (when there is no "we" in the article, Husserl is not a group of people) makes the unsubstantiated weaseling more obvious. It needs to be fixed. If Husserl said what this article says he did, surely there should be secondary literature on it. In fact, I have two volumes just on Husserl on my shelf, and several encyclopedias that would be sources - although they do not say exactly what is said here and I am not here to improve content, just to clear up the copyediting issues so progress can be made on other things.
I usually ignore this, but for some reason I found the over-use of "student of X" rather than "student of X's" in this article to be annoying. E.g., so-and-so "was a student of Faber." That's not incorrect, but more idiomatic would be "was a student of Faber's." The former is more appropriate to someone who studies Faber, the latter to someone who studied under Faber. It's the difference between "a student of me" and "a student of mine."
Since Prostějov was part of the Austrian Empire in 1859, when Husserl was born there, should his nationality be given as Austrian instead of German, or even Czech? Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
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Did Husserl have any connection at all to this place? Or is that image just a clever photoshopped spoof? There is nothing about in the article text. Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:15, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Was he banned or not? The article currently says both "yes" (for just a week) and "no" ("incorrectly rumoured to have been denied the use of the library"). Which was it? Martinevans123 ( talk) 21:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Omnipaedista, I'm failing to understand or find rationale for your deletion of the Arabic translation of one of the most important works of Husserl. FWIW, the translation was also winner of Sheikh Zayed Book Award. Nowhere did neither the cited MOS:SECTIONORDER, its relevant subsection ( MOS:BIB), nor its parent ( MOS:WORKS) mention anything to justify such deletion. I've re-inserted the material in case it was mistakenly deleted while restructuring. Assem Khidhr ( talk) 22:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
lyrics databasesand
logs of software updates.
Some time ago, the article was edited by User:Pashute to say in the heading that Husserl was a Jewish atheist. Although citations were added in support of this change, I have checked them and none seem to mention him being an atheist. As for being Jewish, although he was born Jewish, he later converted to Christianity, and so whatever affiliation he had with Judaism seems too attenuated and complex to be mentioned in the heading (the article's body does describe this, at sufficient length).
For now, I will undo Pashute's edit, but will mention him here so that he may defend it. LunaticLarry ( talk) 13:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Due to nazism and the dispute about Heidegger's conduct and evidence about the discourse around him as Jewish in his later days, his official religion as Christian as opposed to the Jewish religion is irrelevant to the fact that he was continuously considered Jewish as a nationality. He even said he saw the persecuted Jews as his brothers. And as we now know he Was persecuted himself and from his being ... what? JEWISH. Then ther is the question of atheism. That was iianm the original saying about his religious beliefs. It is clear by saying a Jewish Atheist that was not a Jewish religion believer in any way. I find it hard to believe that someone still thinks we should categorize Jews in modern times (and proud ones at that) solely in accordance with their attitude towards the Jewish religion. פשוט pashute ♫ ( talk) 23:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This page has been blown completely out of the category "Biography." The bulk of the text reads like a philosophical thesis, intermittently interrupted by disconnected references to the political climate, the debatable merits of philosophical theories and a lot of details about the lives of other philosophers. Some aren't even connected to the Hesserl, they're simply philosophers in the same circle who have entire sections devoted to their lives. The biography should mention his family, colleagues, mentors and students. But they aren't the focus. They have their own Wiki pages. From an editorial pov, the page is also disorganized, repetitive, uses inconsistent tense (Hesserl says, said, is saying) and passive voice. In the passive voice it sounds like: "this lecture, given by Hesserl in 1931, being a departure from what he had done before, was received badly by those who had been interested in his work previously." That's an exaggerated example of the writing. Active voice: "Many former admirers of Hesserl's work condemned the new ideas he presented in a 1931 speech..." The information may be accurate, but the delivery is just as important. MandieJ1975 ( talk) 00:31, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of historicism and of psychologism in logic based on analyses of intentionality.
Do you mean?
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of
- historicism
- psychologism in logic
based on analyses of intentionality.
Or do you mean?
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of
- historicism
- psychologism
in logic
- based on analyses of intentionality.
This is the kind of thing that keeps people from outside the fence permanently outside the fence, rather than inviting them in.
The Humanities are notorious for some of their Gordian shibboleths. If you've ever wandered over from the slide-rule side of campus and tried to unpack "romanticism" or "modernity" (or "socialism") you've had that "holy fark, Batman, how do these people even tie their shoes" moment. Then you see a word like "historicism" and your intestines begin to writhe. Should I check that out? Or would I rather do something else—possibly productive—with the whole of my Saturday morning? Does it have a handle you can find quickly where you can at least stick a pin into a rough cognitive map, or is it yet another one of those Houdini kaleidoscopes with about as much of a permanently fixed address as a sand dune in the Sahara?
'Psychologism' is similarly opaque from outside the fold. Was it applied retroactively to something classical? I'm sure they had words for things we now call psychology. For a crash course in how the old becomes new again, check out Husserl's own use of the word 'noema'. If you can't date 'logic' back to at least Euclid, you're not trying very hard.
So in the grand philosophic Venn diagram of all things classical as rehashed for 2000 years, the Bayesian prior is strong for some overlap between this unknown flavour of psychology and logic, and probably quiet a bit weaker for some overlap between logic and some unknown paradigm of historical treatment, but far from zero.
Thus a definitive parse of the above is entirely unavailable to anyone from the slide-rule side of campus with better things to do with their entire Saturday morning.
Steven Pinker calls this the curse of knowledge. I know that many people on the other side of campus have heard of Pinker, because a bunch of you signed a big petition to the effect that he was an ass, containing many false individual accusations, but never mind, it's the Gestalt that counts.
Moreover, Pinker wrote that entire damn book about why people on campus can't write very well, for precisely this kind of reason. That can't have helped his cause, either; nor is pointing this out likely helping mine, but it felt good to get this off my chest, and it ticked a box in my canine lived experience of barking at cats. — MaxEnt 16:39, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
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I think the entry on Husserl needs some updating and improving. I will try to improve matters, which will lead to a more extended and organised page. I will start by providing some categories and reallocating the existing information to those.
As Husserl's life and works are closely connected I deem a chronological approach the clearest one. I propose a division in 5 headings:
The reworking of this entry will probably bring several new empty entries ( noesis, noema, Munich phenomenology, etc.). I will try to provide at least a stub to begin with for all those new entries. Help and criticism is greatly appreciated.
I noticed that Husserl recently has been placed in the category "continental philosophy". That is debatable, as Husserl can be placed before and above the alleged rift between so-called continental and analytic philosophy. As has been repeatedly argued in the literature, the entire School of Brentano is quite analytic and scientific in its approach and could be better classified under the header Austrian Philosophy (including i.a. Brentano, Meinong, Husserl and all their schools and pupils), as opposed to German philosophy such as German idealism, Kant and Neo-kantianism, Karl Marx and Heidegger. Alternatively, in view of his considerable influence on cognitive science and philosophy of mind, couldn't he be placed in two (or more) catagories?
no phenomology mentionded in article
What is "phenomology"? I can't make any sense of the sentence that contains "...combine mathematics, psychology and philosophy with as main goal...."
Husserl's Ideen(Ideas) needs a thorough description in a seperate article.
This is outrageous, one thing is to say Carnap misunderstood Husserl. A quite different one is to say such a movement, which preceded Carnap's attending Husserl's lectures, could have been originated, even in part, by a misunderstanding of a such a different kind of philosophy. YoungSpinoza 21:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
You appear to be quite biased against the mere possibility that phenomenology and analytical philosophy might just share an ancestor or might have influenced each other at some point. Let's start out by building some common ground here, based on solid, demonstrable facts.
Hence I would ask you to reconsider your rant about Husserl not being a "true" mathematician and your claim that his style and method would not be "appropriate". Once we agree on some common ground, we might tackle the real issue at hand, regarding Carnap's understanding of Husserl and the influence it had on the development of Logical Positivism. Moreover, the "analytic-continental" shift didn't even exist at the time, and besides Peirce and Dewey there was no "anglo-saxon" philosophy outside of Great Britain either. Heidegger's philosophy and everything that followed might be considered "phenomenological", but not Husserlian Phenomenology, which is at stake here, so don't confuse postmodernism or anything like that with Husserl, whose ideals, like those of many members of the School of Brentano, were quite in line with what today is called analytical philosophy. A paper that might interest you could be David Woodruff Smith How to Husserl a Quine - and a Heidegger, too in Synthese 98 (1994) pp. 153–173 Regards, Cat 12:41, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Now, you do re-address the issue when referring to “regarding Carnap's understanding of Husserl and the influence it had on the development of Logical Positivism”. I do agree Brentano, neo-kantism and other late XIX century groups or thinkers may bear a resemblance to LP, and/or OLF and/or philosophy of science and/or many other sub-disciplines related to APh. Husserl may also have, though I believe less, resemblances of such a kind. Putnam said “well, when you come to think of it, even Plato may have been an analytical philosopher”. Of course, that doesn’t mean any kind of philosopher may classify as such (i.e. Hegel). Yet, parallelism is one thing, saying something “is partly originated by” is quite another (not to mention the original version said something quite encyclopedic like “the whole bunch of LP was a deviated branch of Phenomenology”). Going into individual “who influenced who” topics is much the “continental” way of talking about (or even doing) philosophy, which, you may imagine, I don’t really like to indulge in in my free time (not that I despise it at all, though). I suggest this: first, open (you) a new paragraph with title “parallelisms with analytical philosophy” and pour whatever parallelism you think appropriate; second, if you find an author (any, though I suggest not yourself, even though you may have published material on it) that speaks of LP or APh as being “partially originated by (early) Phenomenology”, then state it and cite “according to X, […] [reference]”. I’m sorry if I gave the impression I was an APh fanatic trying to dogmatically reject any parallelism, I just got over excited about a statement in the introduction that was blunt, POV and ameliorated after a clear “ideological philosophical vandalism”. I’ll try to get that article you mentioned, best regards. YoungSpinoza 18:09, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I plan on adding and re-editing a lot of this when I get the chance. I plan on discussing noema and noesis, etc. As well as "hyletic data" (though maybe not so much). I also plan on elaborating on the natural standpoint.
Kevin L. 05:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure I completely agree with you. Husserl does talk about "acts" (and please note I only have read selections from Ideas) in terms of "acts of perception". However, and I am only saying this with partial certainty while in a pre-sleep dose, I do not take it that the noema itself is the act itself. In this language (and I might indeed be confused in some sense), it seems more fitting to say that the noesis is the act particular to the perceiver. However, the noema is the objective (in the sense that it is in all thinkers when they are in that noetic experience, as opposed to the noesis which is subjective and particular to the thinker) meaning attached to the object (I must be careful here, for many reasons) that sets up the framework through which hyletic data is ascertained (this, I take it, is what Husserl means when he talks about "filling" [or it might have been "fulfillment", I forget at this moment]). I do not doubt that you know much about Husserl and Heidegger, among others, but in this particular instance I feel inclined to respectfully disagree with you. Please correct me if I am indeed wrong. Kevin L. 06:40, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Husserl has to be read closely, Kevin. Husserl's language is not Heigibberish. Husserl wasn't trying to fool anybody.-- BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:38, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
Re ABSCHATTUNG. Dear Kevin, you're quite obviously a decent and intelligent person. So I hope you won't be offended when I tell you that I can't discuss Husserl's terms with you. We would never be able to find common ground because we would not be talking about the same text. That's what I was trying to bring across with my remark. We could, however, talk about Husserl in a more general context. Take e.g. your strange statement that I "know much about Husserl and Heidegger". This is, of course, a classical syllepsis (or more loosely: a zeugma). What is strange about it is not so much that your schooling prevents you from seeing your figure of speech for what it is, but that it prevents you from realizing that other people consider the yoking of these two names as ridiculous. Or am I only imagining this?--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Re IRRELEVANT. You mean to say that you would NOT think it is ridiculous to describe someone as knowing a lot about Beethoven and Britney Spears? Then how about Mozart and Mickey Mouse? Still not ridiculous? César Franck and Frankenstein? No?
You are mistaken, Kevin. This is neither irrelevant, nor can it be called quibbling. We are right at the center of the problem. Your problem. If you can't see that "Husserl and Heidegger" sounds ridiculous in ANY context it is because you believe that Heidegger was a philosopher. But as long as it is not 100% clear to you that Herr Professor Heidegger's writings are nothing but a monstrous pile of garbage, your opinions about Husserl's philosophy will not have any weight. Yes, Kevin, I do think that talking about trigonometry doesn't make much sense as long as it's not clear to all parties concerned what is and what is not a triangle. What's more, there is another point that in your shoes I would try to make clear BEFORE setting out to write a great article on Husserl: What makes an article great? I could of course give you my answer to this question. But I don't want to waste your time with yet another discussion that you feel is irrelevant to the matter at hand. I wish you lots of luck with your work.
--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Re BASIC QUESTION. Hey, YoungSpinoza, will you do me a favor? Next time, you are in the library, please get a copy of what Heidegger had to say about Die Grundfrage der Philosophie (The Basic Question of Philosophy) in the summer semester of 1933. The first two pages will do. But please don't cheat. Read them in the original German. Pay attention to the rhythm. Imagine you're sitting in class, listening to the Herr Professor hammering it in. Listen to the students stamping madly (noted in some editions) whenever Heidegger hits the right key. Don't worry, your German is good enough for this particular Heidegger text. As a matter of fact, your German is good enough for any Heidegger text. Heidegger's "philosophy" is revealed only in the texts that you can read. Forget about anything written in the usual Heigibberish.
When you are through with the two pages, please explain to the people here what kind of philosophy the students (Kevin's "secondary sources"!) were taught by the Herr Professor. And explain to them also why there can be no serious discussion about Husserl or any other philosopher of his time without this text. Sorry, but I haven't got the strength.--
BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
how did he die? Being a jew in nazi germany i can think of a few possible causes but its not mentioned, other than to say that he lived until 1938. WookMuff 11:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Was Husserl's famous exposition on phenomenology in the Encyclopedia Brittanica currently in the public domain? That'd be a nice thing to reproduce? Balonkey 15:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Not Public Domain AFAIK, but it is online here. Cat 19:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Husserl was Jewish, but no where does it suggest he was a Czech, and one cannot redefine the term "Czech Jew" to mean anyone born in Bohemia and Moravia who was Jewish. If this category is to be added it needs to have a rename that is appropriate in its use of words. 141.211.251.69 22:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
He wasnt Czech. He was German. Redy
Is there a reason Kant isn't listed as an influence? I was about to add him to the list of influences, but figured it would be best if I asked here first whether or not there are any reasons for his name being absent. Josh.passmore 17:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Simone de Beauvoir should absolutely be listed as a philosopher influenced by Husserl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leparadis ( talk • contribs) 06:00, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
The section about Frege's influence on Husserl seems out-of-context and overly specific/specialized. It looks like someone copied and pasted their philosophy mid-term into the article. Does anyone have any particular reason it should stay, or can it go? Binkyping 01:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I'm working on Georg Cantor, and would really like to include parts of the section copy/pasted below. I can't, however, because I have no full references for the assertions. Can anyone supply full references? Thanks:
Husserl recognized a logical third stratum, a meta-logical level, what he called a "theory of all possible forms of theories"... It is, in formal ontology, a free investigation where a mathematician can assign several meanings to several symbols, and all their possible valid deductions in a general and indeterminate manner. It is properly speaking the most universal mathematics of all. Through the posit of certain indeterminate objects (formal-ontological categories) as well as any combination of mathematical axioms, mathematicians can explore the apodeictic connections between them just as long as consistency is preserved.
This view of logic and mathematics accounted, according to him, for the objectivity of a series of mathematical development of his time, such as ... Cantor's set theory among others.
Thanks Ling.Nut 00:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
AFAIK these points are made in Husserl's Prolegomena. IIRC most of them are inspired by Bolzano. Search Google Scholar for articles on Husserl's concept of "pure logic". Cat 19:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
These two redlinks appear on this page, and are being addressed as part of the improvement project on logic articles.
The two redlinks appear only in this article. If there is no objection, I'm going to link both to formula (mathematical logic) tomorrow. Rick Norwood 14:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure why, but in the section on Husserl's critique of psychologism, there is a sudden digression into another language. Vandalism, I assume, but I don't know what language it is. Here's an example: μετάβασις εἰς ἄλλο γένος. If anyone could translate it back to the original, that would be great. Tiger Khan ( talk) 04:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I came to this page with almost no idea about Edmund Husserl, I'd been recommended to read about his work by a friend/ uni lecturer. So I represent an ordinary wikipedia user, not a specialist.
The article obviously has the potential to be great. The writers obviously have a very detailed and comprehensive knowledge. But, the big problem is for an encyclopaedic purpose it gets much too technical and detailed too early on - the initial summary explanation needs expanding and clarifying a lot!
Thanks. 82.32.0.13 ( talk) 11:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Here here, to much showing off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.35.81.18 ( talk) 15:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
I made a slight change in the opening bio discussion - it had mentioned where he was born, then continued with a barbed comment about the expulsion of the German population in 1945. This I find problematic - not only did Husserl leave well before this time and not for this reason, but the German expulsion happened after his death. In terms of accuracy, Prostějov ceased to be part of the Austrian Empire in 1918, not 1945. A small point, admittedly, but I just wonder why an article such as this would serve as a forum for unrelated cultural politics. Hm. Br.locke ( talk) 02:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Hi! Are there any sources stating how much exposure did Husserl have to the findings of physics at the turn of the 20th century? I am asking because (it might sound naive, I know), concepts like relativity of time may have helped push him toward studying the phenomenology of time and maybe even the transcendental reduction. -- 213.6.6.112 ( talk) 11:31, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Huh?
Leibniz hasn't influenced
Husserl and the latter hasn't been influenced by him?
I find this a bit odd...
Is there anyone, please, that would like to discuss it in private?
Thanks for your attention.
science.is.based.on.curiosity@gmail.com
Maurice Carbonaro (
talk) 09:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I gave up on the psychologism section, but the next copyeditor may find these comments useful.
Is Psychologism totally a thing of the past? Who says? Needs a citation. Will make it present tense until some citation shows it doesn't exist any more. Stipulation is the wrong word, but that's not a copyediting problem, that's a content problem. What are the opposing views? Who states that logic exists outside of the human mind? That would be good as a counter-point. At any rate, the section on psychologism needs lots of work, besides just copyediting.
I strongly object to the terms "psychologism," "biologism" and "anthropologism" (the latter two merely thrown in with not even the merest attempt to discuss them) appearing without citations, without accompanying articles, without other points of view. I know the overall argument, most people who've taken up the finer points of logic know the overall scope of the "psychologism" argument - but let's not decide in advance who is correct. Make it neutral!
The article is under-referenced and makes sweeping claims about entire disciplines, without even linking to sections of wikis to show that the claims have any basis at all. Psychologism isn't even a word, and if it is one of the philosophical 'isms it needs its own page.
Using a passive tense instead of "we" (when there is no "we" in the article, Husserl is not a group of people) makes the unsubstantiated weaseling more obvious. It needs to be fixed. If Husserl said what this article says he did, surely there should be secondary literature on it. In fact, I have two volumes just on Husserl on my shelf, and several encyclopedias that would be sources - although they do not say exactly what is said here and I am not here to improve content, just to clear up the copyediting issues so progress can be made on other things.
I usually ignore this, but for some reason I found the over-use of "student of X" rather than "student of X's" in this article to be annoying. E.g., so-and-so "was a student of Faber." That's not incorrect, but more idiomatic would be "was a student of Faber's." The former is more appropriate to someone who studies Faber, the latter to someone who studied under Faber. It's the difference between "a student of me" and "a student of mine."
Since Prostějov was part of the Austrian Empire in 1859, when Husserl was born there, should his nationality be given as Austrian instead of German, or even Czech? Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:29, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
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Did Husserl have any connection at all to this place? Or is that image just a clever photoshopped spoof? There is nothing about in the article text. Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:15, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Was he banned or not? The article currently says both "yes" (for just a week) and "no" ("incorrectly rumoured to have been denied the use of the library"). Which was it? Martinevans123 ( talk) 21:32, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Omnipaedista, I'm failing to understand or find rationale for your deletion of the Arabic translation of one of the most important works of Husserl. FWIW, the translation was also winner of Sheikh Zayed Book Award. Nowhere did neither the cited MOS:SECTIONORDER, its relevant subsection ( MOS:BIB), nor its parent ( MOS:WORKS) mention anything to justify such deletion. I've re-inserted the material in case it was mistakenly deleted while restructuring. Assem Khidhr ( talk) 22:10, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
lyrics databasesand
logs of software updates.
Some time ago, the article was edited by User:Pashute to say in the heading that Husserl was a Jewish atheist. Although citations were added in support of this change, I have checked them and none seem to mention him being an atheist. As for being Jewish, although he was born Jewish, he later converted to Christianity, and so whatever affiliation he had with Judaism seems too attenuated and complex to be mentioned in the heading (the article's body does describe this, at sufficient length).
For now, I will undo Pashute's edit, but will mention him here so that he may defend it. LunaticLarry ( talk) 13:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Due to nazism and the dispute about Heidegger's conduct and evidence about the discourse around him as Jewish in his later days, his official religion as Christian as opposed to the Jewish religion is irrelevant to the fact that he was continuously considered Jewish as a nationality. He even said he saw the persecuted Jews as his brothers. And as we now know he Was persecuted himself and from his being ... what? JEWISH. Then ther is the question of atheism. That was iianm the original saying about his religious beliefs. It is clear by saying a Jewish Atheist that was not a Jewish religion believer in any way. I find it hard to believe that someone still thinks we should categorize Jews in modern times (and proud ones at that) solely in accordance with their attitude towards the Jewish religion. פשוט pashute ♫ ( talk) 23:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
This page has been blown completely out of the category "Biography." The bulk of the text reads like a philosophical thesis, intermittently interrupted by disconnected references to the political climate, the debatable merits of philosophical theories and a lot of details about the lives of other philosophers. Some aren't even connected to the Hesserl, they're simply philosophers in the same circle who have entire sections devoted to their lives. The biography should mention his family, colleagues, mentors and students. But they aren't the focus. They have their own Wiki pages. From an editorial pov, the page is also disorganized, repetitive, uses inconsistent tense (Hesserl says, said, is saying) and passive voice. In the passive voice it sounds like: "this lecture, given by Hesserl in 1931, being a departure from what he had done before, was received badly by those who had been interested in his work previously." That's an exaggerated example of the writing. Active voice: "Many former admirers of Hesserl's work condemned the new ideas he presented in a 1931 speech..." The information may be accurate, but the delivery is just as important. MandieJ1975 ( talk) 00:31, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of historicism and of psychologism in logic based on analyses of intentionality.
Do you mean?
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of
- historicism
- psychologism in logic
based on analyses of intentionality.
Or do you mean?
In his early work, he elaborated critiques of
- historicism
- psychologism
in logic
- based on analyses of intentionality.
This is the kind of thing that keeps people from outside the fence permanently outside the fence, rather than inviting them in.
The Humanities are notorious for some of their Gordian shibboleths. If you've ever wandered over from the slide-rule side of campus and tried to unpack "romanticism" or "modernity" (or "socialism") you've had that "holy fark, Batman, how do these people even tie their shoes" moment. Then you see a word like "historicism" and your intestines begin to writhe. Should I check that out? Or would I rather do something else—possibly productive—with the whole of my Saturday morning? Does it have a handle you can find quickly where you can at least stick a pin into a rough cognitive map, or is it yet another one of those Houdini kaleidoscopes with about as much of a permanently fixed address as a sand dune in the Sahara?
'Psychologism' is similarly opaque from outside the fold. Was it applied retroactively to something classical? I'm sure they had words for things we now call psychology. For a crash course in how the old becomes new again, check out Husserl's own use of the word 'noema'. If you can't date 'logic' back to at least Euclid, you're not trying very hard.
So in the grand philosophic Venn diagram of all things classical as rehashed for 2000 years, the Bayesian prior is strong for some overlap between this unknown flavour of psychology and logic, and probably quiet a bit weaker for some overlap between logic and some unknown paradigm of historical treatment, but far from zero.
Thus a definitive parse of the above is entirely unavailable to anyone from the slide-rule side of campus with better things to do with their entire Saturday morning.
Steven Pinker calls this the curse of knowledge. I know that many people on the other side of campus have heard of Pinker, because a bunch of you signed a big petition to the effect that he was an ass, containing many false individual accusations, but never mind, it's the Gestalt that counts.
Moreover, Pinker wrote that entire damn book about why people on campus can't write very well, for precisely this kind of reason. That can't have helped his cause, either; nor is pointing this out likely helping mine, but it felt good to get this off my chest, and it ticked a box in my canine lived experience of barking at cats. — MaxEnt 16:39, 6 May 2023 (UTC)